Sick of Conspiracy Theories? Then Don't Whine When They Steal It From Obama

[Echo In Light]

Sick of Conspiracy Theories? Then Don't Whine When They Steal It From Obama
by daveysdad Sat May 31, 2008 at 10:00:19 AM PDT

I'm sick of it. So is Mark Crispin Miller.

The limitation of "conspiracy theory" to only a single, pejorative definition--something fringy, illegitimate, tin-foily, etc.--is hurting our nation and could be the downfall of it.

Here is why Mark Crispin Miller, a professor of media studies at New York University, believes that "conspiracy theory" should be a working phrase in the vocabulary of democracy.

There have been very real and documented government conspiracies: MK-ULTRA, Operation Mockingbird, Operation Northwoods, Project SHAD, Iran-Contra, and many more.

As Miller points out, the danger of limiting "conspiracy theory" to mean only worthless conjecture from fringe elements is the closing of the mind to very real, very dangerous conspiracies taking place: the degradation of election integrity, for example.

Despite eight years' worth of massive, unimpeachable data accumulated by first-rate investigators, researchers and writers, the concept of "election theft" in America remains relegated to the pejorative "conspiracy theory" outhouse. It's hard to think of a more dangerous threat to our democracy, other than the unwillingness of people to open their minds to the fact that it is happening.

The Nation, MotherJones, and other liberal/progressive gatekeepers still consider Republican election theft off limits because of the taint of "conspiracy theory." And by doing so they increase the danger to our republic.

The Bush Regime has never been elected, according to the data, is profoundly criminal and anti-American. After torture, extraordinary rendition, outing of an entire CIA covert network, warrantless wiretapping, and the rest, you really have to ask if there is anything they would not do.

Last year's NSPD-51 gave Bush the ability to declare martial law and exert control over every branch of government in the event of an "emergency" as determined by Bush.

KBR has recent completed construction "detention centers" all around the rural U.S.

Bush has the ability to declare anyone an "enemy combatant" or "terrorist" and revoke that person's habeaus corpus.

All that is conspiracy theory. Total tin-foil territory.

Until it happens.

And just like the stolen elections in 2000 and 2004, because Americans didn't believe in conspiracy theories, they were caught flat footed and just rolled over. The Rethugs stuck a fork in those elections and they were done.

The halcyon days of "If we leave the government alone (to run drugs, steal elections, conduct political coups across the globe), then they will leave us alone"--are quickly coming to an end.

Please take a moment to view Miller's video and listen to his warnings. Our democracy may depend upon it.

"See ya in Gitmo." -- Keith Olbermann to Jonathan Turley

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/5/31/123527/800

[melody]

1. Exactly

"Conspiracy theory" is a pre-packaged sneer cooked up by the very people benefiting from their crimes.

Criminal conspiracies happen all the time -- if they didn't, there'd be no reason for police.

[Echo In Light]

2. Now there's something we can agree on, Melody

:hi:

[liberalmike27]

42. i've never understood it either

How is it that the idea that a few people can get together and do something is so hard to see? Personally I've never seen why the phrase is so negative, as it doesn't mean anything negative, only suggesting that a few folks got together and pulled stuff off.

But it is clear this is yet another way our media keeps control. The biggest conspiracy of all is that a group of really wealthy folks get together and keep wars occurring on a regular basis. It is of course, completely true, but it is considered a conspiracy theory.

[zeos3]

3. I'm sick of it too

One problem is apathy. By the time people see the effects (of what they were warned of) it's usually too late. Another is the assumption that the MSM would say something or that someone else will do something about it (the "good guys always win" daydream). Probably another is if people finally pay attention and nothing happens (the conspirators are thwarted or they retreat to change plans), people will assume they got all worked up over nothing and won't bother paying attention again.

Wow, I woke up extra cynical today!

"The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous - he simply cannot believe it exists"

- J. Edgar Hoover

[annabanana]

5. "a conspiracy so monstrous - he simply cannot believe it exists"

The efficacy of the Big Lie is proven over and over again. This is the dynamic at work during the run up to the Iraq invasion...

Some people knew it was a lie... lots and lots and lots of people suspected.. The natural reaction to this suspicion, among Americans predisposed to believe that their government works for them, is to presume: "Naw, they wouldn't do that.. they couldn't.. we'd hear about it and they'd be stopped..." and "Even this president wouldn't lie about war. . ."


and. here. we. are.

[newfie11]

6. I always wondered how people could stand by in Germany during the Holocaust

Now that bush is taking this country on the same path I understand how the German people got sucked into the lies and then it was to late for all of them. God help us all here in the states.

[zeos3]

8. Amen

How many times have we heard about the liberal media? Once this lie is internalized by the public, any truth that does not come from the MSM is considered fringe/extreme/paranoid etc. In this sense the MSM acts as a governor, implying that liberal thought can go "this far" but no further.

The bigger the lie, the more people will believe it.

[tom_paine]

9. Yep. We are the 1930s Germans and they are us. Plain and simple.

Anyone who is watching and thinking now knows the psychology and dynamics of Nazis successes.

We can only be glad that, for the moment at least, the Bushies are unable to emulate the nazis' violence.

That and overt racism are really the only two aspects in which Bushevism and Nazism are substantially different. In every other aspect, the similarities are often so close they are staggering.

[Hydra]

13. Normally, I agree with you

But the violence is there, and so is the racism. It's only a matter of time before we make the Nazis look like amateurs...oh, wait! We already have.

[tom_paine]

14. Well, I can't agree with you there (yet), but I do love your sigline!

The eagle does not hawk for flies.

In "I, Claudius", Robert Graves appends that statement, and attributes it to the Robert F. Kennedy of Rome (also murdered by the Roman version of the Bushies in his relative youth),

The eagle does not hawk for flies, but if a fly should go buzzing down it's throat, then that's the end of that creature.

I don't have the Latin handy, but it's in the book "I Claudius".

[Hydra]

16. Thanks!

Although it might help see my perspective in that I see Bushco's racism as more profound than most- they despise everyone who isn't them and see them as inferior creatures, undeserving of the time of day, let alone basic rights.

And as for the violence, Iraq knows all about that...and I suspect we will too soon enough. Most of the bad stuff happening on our soil is hush-hush right now...but that doesn't mean it's not happening.

Interesting that my sig comes from I, Claudius. The simple wisdom of it always appealed to me- if you are picking fights with people much smaller than you appear to be, than you are not as great as you seem.

[tom_paine]

19. Well, "I, Claudius" is as much history as fiction, so this saying likely DOES

go back to ancient Rome, if not farther.

Graves merely took the writings of historians Tacitus and Suetonius, stitched them together, added some dialogue and some historical speculations "connecting the dots".

If you haven't read the books "I Claudius" and "Claudius the God" or seen the 12-part fantatsic British miniseries, entitled "I, Claudius", you might want to do so.

There is much to be learned about the Fall of the American Republic and the rise of empire from when the same thing happened to Rome.

[petgoat]

30. picking fights

I remember Herb Cain put it in much simpler terms.

IN FEBRUARY of 1975, Herb Caen penned a column, "The Rambling Wreck." The message in his fortune cookie had been: "You are no bigger than the things that annoy you." Caen went on to say that he was immediately annoyed at reading this because it was true.

[Gabi Hayes]

20. thanks for your recent posts regarding the 'new totalitarianism' or however

you characterized the newer, kindler, gentler fascism that has descended upon us since Carter took over, and the dem/repug cabal, if you will, along with the realigned corporate media, ushered in the era of information fascism, in which the vast majority of the public was never allowed to see what was going on all around.

see Walter Karp and Mark Hertzgaard for some basic background (not so much on the fascist aspect, but these books clearly show how the groundwork was laid)

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/19881201fabook9258/walter-karp/liberty-under-siege-american-politics-1976-1988.html

With rhetoric worthy of Tom Paine, Karp attacks the "jeering tyranny of shysters and sharks, protected by Oligarchy" which, he contends, has undermined democracy since 1976. The Reaganites, the press, the military and business are the principal targets, but he also inveighs against the leaders of the Democratic Party for sabotaging Jimmy Carter.


http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ronald_Reagan/On_Bended_Knee.html


mainly wanted to thank you for reminding me to find my copy of I, Claudius. I'd meant to read it again, but had forgotten

[tom_paine]

21. Actually, Ph. D. Sheldon Wolin has given it name now, Inverted Totalitarianism

See Sigline #3 for a review of his book.

[Zynx]

26. There is no comparison. The Nazis killed 50 million people in Europe in WWII.

I do blame them for every death, even their own. We're not even in the same ballpark with that.

[tom_paine]

35. Hooray for shortsightedness! Hooray for stating the obvious!

:party: :beer:

Apologies if I am rude, but after seven years of watching and speaking to cluelessness, I am simply out of patience to be "politically correct" and polite about it.

First off, let me say that you are correct. In absolute terms, there is no question you are correct. So what? That had NOTHINg to do with the point I was making

If all you can see are the absolutes, then you are blind. I have said this thousands of times, typed it hundreds more here on DU and elsewhere.

Are you so blind that, unless it comes marching up the street with swastikas and kills millions industrially, you can't or won't see it? You cannot see that, if one removes the murderous violence and open racism from the equation, that there is little to no difference between Bushies and Nazis?

For example:

Bushies lie 98+% of the time. Nazis lied 98%+ of the time.
Bushies and Nazis both destroyed the Free Press of their Nations, first by creating their own Bushie/Nazi sub-media, then by intimidation and finally by State Pressure (like how the NYT sat on the warrantless wiretapping story for a year because the Bushies "asked" them to).
Bushies and Nazis both use demonization speech to describe their political enemies. (see Michael Savage and "Liberal Vermin", for a start)
Both Bushies and Nazis speak in absolutes.
Both Bushies and Nazis portray themselves as the absolute pinnacle of patriotism.
Both Bushies and Nazis believe anyone who disagrees with them in the slightest, is a verminous traitor.
Both Bushies and Nazis use highly sophisticated propaganda and the Big Lie to ultimately create a cultish mentality, insuring that once someone becomes a Bushie or Nazi, they cannot be turned back.
Bushies and Nazis think nothing of performing criminal acts, as they believe such is justified in defeating a greater evil (for the Bushies: Liberals; for the Nazis: Jews and Liberals).
When a Nazi is presented with facts that do not conform to Party Propaganda, they instantly dismiss it as "Jewish Propaganda", when a Bushie is presented with facts that do not conform to Party Propaganda, they instantly dismiss it as "Liberal Propaganda".
The Invasion of Iraq and the Invasion of Poland were each illegal invasions based on wholesale lies. Hitler also said he was "liberating" Poland.

There's more...much MUCH more, but I trust I have made my point.

And you are giving me shit over BODY COUNTS?!? What a narrow vision you have. Guess the Bushies CAN'T be Nazis until their body count goes over six million, eh?

There are three links in my signature line. I suggest you read or watch them to further understand that there is so much more to it than simple body count and overt evil.

But the Bushies, like Caesar when he did the same thing to the Roman Republic, are smart. None smarter, at least in the areas of propaganda and converting a formerly free nation to an Inverted Totalitarianism.

Let me ask you a hypothetical question:

Let's say you are a wealthy man from a powerful political family. Your grandfather, as the whole family knows, but somehow the rest of the nation does not, sided with Hitler and actually tried to overthrow the US government, replacing it with fascist Military Dictatorship.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml

Had he and his friends succeeded, your Granpda would have been Ambassador to Nazi Germany of the Fascist States of America. They did not succeed, but because they were wealthy aristocrats, neither did they hang for High Treason. The information was suppressed and kept from the American People "for the good of the country". This left your family name intact, in spite of being the greatest traitors to the USA since Benedict Arnold.

Your Poppy and many of Grandpa's friends, after WWII, brought over all his Nazi pals that he could save, giving many of them cushy jobs in the intelligence community.

http://www.operationpaperclip.info/

Your Poppy even had known Nazis working for his campaign in 1988.

http://www.skepticfiles.org/socialis/bushnazi.htm

Now we get to the question. What if you are someone who desires to fulfill Grandpa's dream, but the Nazi "brand" has been so discredited there is no way possible to achieve Grandpa's aims by direct, frontal action.

How would you go about fulfilling Grandpa's goals in the freest country in the world, one in which the central myth is breaking free from tyranny and a vow never to kneel to tyrants?

How would you do that? You'd have to be very careful, for any associations to the despised Nazi brand might wake people up early on, when it was still possible to do something about it. So you'd want to camouflage your efforts in every way possible, wouldn't you?

No one is saying the Bushies are responsible for nearly as much evil as the Nazis...YET, but to deny the long history between the Bush Family and the Nazis, and to say that only if such and such a body count is reached, we have fascism, only serves the tyrants and is gullible in the extreme. To ignore the deep similarity between Bushie words and actions to that of the Nazis in every signle area EXCEPT overt racism and violence, is to do the same.

I can say no more. Read the links I have provided. Pull your head out of your ass. Look beyond simple body counts and knee-jerk outrage.

I'm a Jew, and I did it. You can do it, too. Better hurry, because time is running out.

[Echo In Light]

36. Spot on as always, Tom

[Enthusiast]

40. The time for being timid with these criminals is over.

One more term in office is all these fascists need to fully transform this country. Their supporters are fully convinced.

[Enthusiast]

39. Not yet. nt

[Hydra]

46. I think Tom Paine answered your thoughtless statement correctly

I could also write reams about how wrong you are- but I'd rather you find it out yourself.

1. Add up all the bodies of the people we've killed since World War II in places like Chile, Iran, Nicaragua where we sponsored the overthrow of legitimate DEMOCRATIC governments.

2. Add up all the bodies of the people who were killed so that our Multinational Corporations could rape and pillage smaller countries at will.

3. Add to that our contribution of torture to the mix with such programs as The School of the Americas.

4. Look at programs such as MK Ultra and Artichoke, and programs that descended from such programs- mind control, practiced on our own citizens without their knowledge and consent.

Those alone easily rival anything the Nazis ever DREAMED of, but that is certainly not the end of what they have done, are doing, and will do in the future.

Don't be a good german- the world won't excuse it.

[Zynx]

27. Bush will leave in January with a shattered political party as his legacy.

The Nazis it took the whole industrialized world to bring down.

[tom_paine]

37. How naive and gullible you are. You think the Bushies are going away?

Fox "News" gonna fold up for lack of idiots to watch it?

The hundreds of Bushie Liar Pundits just going to pack it up and go home? Gonna repent and deicate their live to telling the truth isntead of lies, are they?

The millions of crazy Bushies, who one can't even speak to because if you give them a fact that doesn't conform to Bushie Propaganda, they scream "Liberal Prpoaganda" (they way a Nazi used to scream "Jewish Propaganda" at the same)...they're going to give it up and vow to be informed, ration citizens?

The Bushies, in all likelihood, are going to steal this election and put McSame on the throne. It is clear that Obama cannot muster the 10%+ landsilde win in actual votes that he needs to "squeak by in a 50-50 tie in "counted votes", though I certainly hope I am wrong about that, as he is our very last hope to free our nation.

Even if Obama somehow ascends the Amerikan Throne, the Bushies will just revert to the Clinton Plan, relying on the fact that, like Bill Clinton, Obama will be too busy trying to mov forward "for the good of the country" to investigate the many crimes and treasons of the Bushies.

"Shattered Political Party", my ass! A Political Party can never be shattered when it is like unto a cult, for cult members are always zealous and nearly impossible to bring back into reality while they remain under the spell of cult propaganda.

But no, I have said too much all ready. Counting chickens before they've hatched disgusts me, particularly given the last 25 years of history.

I am going to be sick.

[Enthusiast]

41. Shattered political party?

That is way off. They have done untold damage to our political party. I seriously do not expect a Democratic victory in Novemeber.

The Republicans have also successfully deflected the blame of high oil prices directly onto the Democratic Party.

[Echo In Light]

4. Part 2 of this clip can be found at the top of the comments section

...dealing with recent martial law drills.

[zeemike]

7. The conspiracy theory label is a trump card

As long as you have it in your hand any organized crime can be committed without the worry of having to pay for it.
K&R

[Wizard777]

11. Well the government has entire Law books full of conspiracies we can commit against them.

Yet when prosecutors put people on trial for these conspiracies. As the ominous undertones reverberate through the court room. Nobody ever stands up and says, The wacko prosecutor has a conspiracy theory. Shouldn't he have to wear tinfoil hat while presenting this case? The government needs to make up their minds on Conspiracies. If a conspiracy theory is the product of a twisted mind. Then sick & twisted is a conspiracy charge.

[zeemike]

24. Good point n/t

[SidDithers]

10. Bookmarking for November 5, 2008....nt

Sid

[Juche]

12. I have hope that it wont last forever though

I don't know if the public can ignore these issues forever. then again, we fell for the USS Liberty, Gulf of Tonkin, sinking of the Maine, 2000 election, 2004 election and probably a bunch of other things.

[Enthusiast]

45. Hope won't get it.

Unless the media is suddenly transformed into a bastion of fairness these fascists will accomplish their goal.

When they steal the next election dissenters will be shouted down like so many liberal Shawn Hannity guests.

[warren pease]

15. It's well understood in "big media" that any mention whatsoever of election fraud...

... is a quick ticket to the journalism blacklist and, if they're lucky, a new career managing some Chez Maisson de la Casa du Burger Roi and Hydrolyzed Processed Ersatz Chop House in some rural town in the heart of the heat and humidity belt. That's why we hear about "voter fraud," but never "election fraud."

Anybody who breaks the code of "omerta" by reporting anything that even hints at the remotest possibility of some kind of weirdness involving very limited, localized anomalies that ABSOLUTELY DIDN'T HELP BUSH AT ALL IN ANY WAY is fucked 12 ways from Sunday. They'll probably have to find work in another country for while, which I'd see as an opportunity rather than a problem, but others have different priorities.

They'll be on the US blacklist at least until that glorious day when the entire regime -- all the way down to the level of third assistant to the deputy undersecretary in charge of environmental non-regulation policy -- is rounded up and shipped to The Hague for their very own military tribunals, followed by verdicts of guilty on all charges and the imposition of sentences worthy of the upper echelons of the Fourth Reich.

The biggest block party in world history will begin seconds after the official announcement of the verdicts and sentences. After managing to remain alive through what feels like eight hundred years of unrelenting misery and death and suffering, people will be unable to restrain themselves. Let the music and singing and dancing begin.

Can you even imagine what that would feel like? I doubt I've cried in decades, but I think hearing that Cheney got life at Abu Ghraib without possibility of parole would bring tears of joy to my jaded eyes.

Ooooohhhhh puleeeezzze. If there's a gawd and she understands the concept of justice, now would be a great time for her to get out of bed and get to work on this. Things are getting a little urgent.


wp

[Raster]

17. Even on this a premier "progressive" board, electoral fraud is still conspiracy theory to some.

Though not as bad as it once was, we still have the buzzing "official story insects" buzzing around whenever the subject of electoral fraud is brought up. For the life of me I do not understand how anyone with half a brain could doubt electoral fraud. Not after everything we've seen for the last eight years.

[Echo In Light]

18. Bumpity

[varkam]

22. The difference, though, between a conspiracy theory and a "conspiracy theory"

is the difference between evidence and speculation.

[Fly by night]

28. And the difference between an election reformer and a whistler in the wind ...

... is taking the time to read the tsunamis of evidence for election fraud that we are drowning in. Come visit the DU Election Reform forum sometime. Better yet, review the threads of the past three years. You could start with this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x355167

[seemslikeadream]

34. and the time to gather the evidence

[RufusTFirefly]

23. Don't worry! That's what memes are for

Any of a number of explanations for Obama's defeat are already being test-marketed.

* Obama is the new McGovern
* Obama's elitism alienated bedrock ("hard-working white") Americans.
* Values voters struck again
* Voters were turned off by all the Democratic in-fighting
* Americans needed a bona fide war hero to lead them through troubled times.
* Age worked to McCain's advantage as Americans craved a President with vast experience
* Alienated Clinton voters -- like the lovely Harriet Christian -- fled the Democratic party in droves and helped assure McCain's victory

Of course, all of these stories will be fabrications, but they will be drummed into our heads from now until November and each will have a kernel of truth in it, so when McCain ekes out a victory and the pundits all provide a convenient explanation, we will swallow it whole. After all, it's better than being a "conspiracy theorist"!

[flashl]

29. Spot on. nt

[Kitty Herder]

31. You're so right.

And the whole thing makes me so angry!

[Echo In Light]

33. Thanks for compiling The List

[Enthusiast]

43. Rufus, you have it right.

The vote for our candidate must be overwhelming. And then we can still lose. Just like in MEXICO! Banana Republic.

[Kaleko]

25. The main trick used by disinformation operatives

is to sandwich a piece of the truth between two lies.

That package is swallowed most easily because it creates instant confusion.

We need to reclaim so much... even in the realm of words.

[Kitty Herder]

32. Is it even meaningful to call this a democracy anymore?

When elections are regularly stolen and it's taboo to talk about that fact, I think it's time to stop using the word democracy.

[conspirator]

38. I have been saying that reality is much stranger than fiction.

People are too scared to acknowledge the atrocities the elite does behind the stage.

[Echo In Light]

44. "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain..."