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BobbyVan Donating Member (502 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 08:12 AM
Original message
BBC: Venezuela 'spy' law draws protest
A new intelligence law brought in by Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez has caused concern among rights groups who say it threatens civil liberties.

Mr Chavez argues the law will help Venezuela guarantee its national security and prevent assassination plots and military rebellions.

The new law requires Venezuelans to cooperate with intelligence agencies and secret police if requested.

Refusal can result in up to four years in prison.

"Among other problems with this law, any suspect's right to defence can be violated, and that's unacceptable," Carlos Correa, a leader of the Venezuelan human rights group Provea, said.

Mr Correa compared the law to the Patriot Act in the United States, which gave US law enforcement agencies greater powers to intercept communications and investigate suspected terrorists on American soil in the wake of the attacks on 11 September 2001.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7432895.stm
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StickyIckes Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. What do you think about this development
?
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BobbyVan Donating Member (502 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. It speaks for itself
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
3. Here it comes! The Bush Junta's and the Freeper's wet dream!
After ten years of running a scrupulously lawful, beneficial government, "Hugo" is about to become AUTHORITARIAN and a DICTATOR! Didn't they tell us he was...er...will soon be?

The Bushites are running rampant in South America, organizing, funding, and likely arming fascist secession groups in the oil-rich state of Zulia, in Venezuela, and in oil-rich provinces of Ecuador and Bolivia--all three countries with leftist/majorityist governments that the fascists cannot defeat in fair and honest elections--so secession is the latest Bushite strategy for getting control of the oil. Fascist goons in Venezuela, in cahoots with the Bush/U.S. Embassy, perpetrated a violent military coup, in Venezuela, in 2002, in which they kidnapped President Chavez and threatened his life, and suspended the Constitution, the National Assembly, the courts and ALL CIVIL RIGHTS. (The Chavez government was saved by the Venezuelan people, who came out into the streets in the tens of thousands to protest the coup.*) One of the signers of those coup d'etat documents is now leading the secessionists in Zulia. In Bolivia, the Bushites are organizing, funding and likely arming WHITE SEPARATISTS--vicious 'apartheid' racists--who are trying to split-off the gas/oil rich eastern provinces into a fascist mini-state, to deny benefit of Bolivia's resources to the poor majority. And there is a similar Bushite-instigated plot in oil-rich Ecuador.

The Bushites are trying every dirty rotten scheme in their playbook to DESTROY DEMOCRACY IN SOUTH AMERICA, and regain global corporate predator control of the oil--from funding the assassins and mass murderers in Colombia ($5.5 BILLION in military aid--and that's just the visible budget), to (Rumsfeld**) "Office of Special Plans" black ops (multi-millions of our tax dollars in Bushite-CIA ops out of Miami and other fascist centers), to USAID-NED funding of local rightwing political groups and U.S.-based election theft firms like Penn & Schoen organizing the fascists in these oil-rich South American democracies (including, no doubt, faux "human rights" groups - we need to look into Provea, described above as a "Venezuelan" human rights group - where are they getting their money?). They are furthermore using U.S. military bases for illegal flyovers of Venezuelan and other countries' territories--for spying and harassment. They've reconstituted the 4th Fleet (nuclear fleet) to wander around off the coast of Venezuela. They very likely recently used the U.S. base in Manta, Ecuador, U.S. high tech surveillance, U.S. "smart bombs"--and possibly U.S. aircraft and personnel--in a Colombia bombing/raid on Ecuadoran territory (to kill the chief FARC hostage negotiator, who was trying to release hostages to the presidents of Venezuela, Ecuador, France and others, in a bid to end the 40+ year Colombian civil war.) And there have been several assassination plots against Chavez and other leftist leaders hatched in Bush/U.S.-funded Colombia, where they've slaughtered thousands of union leaders, political leftists, small peasant farmers, human rights workers and journalists.

The Chavez government and other leftist governments in South America would be FOOLS not to have their own spying capability. They would be derelict in their duty to preserve their countries, their peoples and their democracies from Bushite/fascist overthrow and other nefarious schemes (like secession). The president of Ecuador, Rafael Correa, has also instituted a purge of CIA operatives in Ecuador's military and intelligence agencies (after the Manta incident), and has pledged to throw the U.S. military base at Manta out of Ecuador. The new leftist president of Paraguay has also pledged to throw the U.S. air base out of Paraguay. All of these countries are rejecting the corrupt, failed, murderous U.S. "war on drugs," U.S. militarization of their societies, U.S.-dominated "free trade," arrogant U.S.-based multinationals, and U.S./Bush fascism. The president of Brazil recently proposed a South American defense organization, not including the U.S., because the U.S. has very clearly become the ENEMY. There is no other. WE are the enemy!

Enough of this bloody U.S. interference! Enough!

And you can be sure that the governments of Venezuela, Ecuador, Bolivia, Paraguay, Brazil and all the other leftist governments are going to END U.S. interference in South America with all of their civil and human rights in tact. That's who they are. They are democrats. They are progressives. Their purpose is social justice and Latin American sovereignty. It is the FASCISTS--whom the Bushites are massively funding--who throw the opposition out of airplanes or carve up their bodies, alive, with chainsaws and throw their body parts into mass graves, and slaughter thousands of innocent people for merely expressing their political views. It is fascists who ARE doing this, right now, in Colombia, funded by US, and who will do it all across South America, once again, if the democratic governments of the region are not vigilant and fail to protect themselves. It is FASCISTS who overthrew the Venezuelan Constitution and suspended all civil rights. Not Chavez. The Bush-funded FASCISTS (who are now trying to secede from Venezuela and take the oil with them).

Let's try to keep straight WHO is a threat to civil and human rights. It is NOT the democratically elected leftists in South America.

-----------------------------------------

*See "The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" - the Irish filmmakers' documentary about the U.S./Bush-supported coup against the Chavez government, available at YouTube and at www.axisoflogic.com.

**"The Smart Way to Beat Tyrants Like Chávez," by Donald Rumsfeld, 12/1/07
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/30/AR2007113001800.html

Other info:
www.venezuelanalysis.com
www.BoRev.net (hilarious AND informative)
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BobbyVan Donating Member (502 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Let's hold Chavez and Bush to the same standards
That way, our principles will be left intact.
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. What's with all the neocon propaganda?
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BobbyVan Donating Member (502 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. BBC News is neocon?
Honestly, it annoys me when we give tyrants in foreign countries a pass, just because they don't like Bush. The enemy of our enemy is not always our friend.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Who Said the BBC was Neocon
You know that's not was said. And yes, the BBC does from time to time publish neo-con garbage.and other sources in the media, so yes, we are able to differentiate between news resource and where they come from.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. boy the neo-cons
got their marching orders. Not slick enough....
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. why was your first thread on this locked? don't you have anything better to do
Edited on Tue Jun-03-08 02:19 PM by Gabi Hayes
with your time?

are you going to repost that drivel from Jackson Diehl?

and what makes you think the BBC is any more a reliable source than the Washington Post, with its own neocon agenda
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BobbyVan Donating Member (502 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I have no idea why the first thread was locked...
I guess people didn't like the New York Times author of the first story, so I figured that BBC News would be more palatable.

Should we be reading VenezuelaAnalysis.com and Granma as our only sources of information about Venezuela?
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Jackson Diehl. 'diehl' with your posting of his total propaganda
last night

you conveniently forgot to address that

wonder why.....
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BobbyVan Donating Member (502 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I never knew much about Diehl until you guys pointed him out
But it looks like you're right that he's a Bush supporter. Fair enough, I should have been more careful about posting something that he had written.

However, as I recall, what I posted wasn't his opinion, but facts recited by him about Venezuela using petrodollars to support other poor countries in South America.

That said, I won't be posting anything by him again -- he's probably not a trustworthy source for opinion or analysis.

And that doesn't change the fact that Chavez may be fighting against the right people (aka, Bush & Company), but I distrust his motivations. He wants to amend the constitution to allow himself to run for another term, he is consolidating power among political appointees, he has used government power over media licenses to muffle opposition voices, and he is building his domestic intelligence capabilities to the detriment of civil liberties at home.

That doesn't make his opponents right (not by a longshot), but it really upsets me when we fight tyranny at home but we make apologies for it abroad.
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Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. "Our" enemy? I don't think you and I have the same
friends or enemies Bobby.
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BobbyVan Donating Member (502 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. my reply to you is below
(accidentally replied to myself)
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BobbyVan Donating Member (502 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. You misunderstand
The enemy (Venezuela) of our enemy (Bush) is not always our friend. That's what I meant.
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
:boring:
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
8. ¿La Ley Patriota?
;)
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BobbyVan Donating Member (502 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. It sounds so much better in Spanish!
Maybe that's why people aren't too upset about it around here.
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