Any tips on developing fat acceptance

[mdmc]

My girl is overweight. Morbidly obese, actually.
I am dating her and in love. Yet the weight is an issue.
DU'er Aspiegirl posted a thread about fat acceptance being a liberal issue.
Does anyone have any tips on developing an acceptance of fat?

[flvegan]

1. What does "morbidly obese" suggest to you?

You love her, and that's fantastic. But again, I go back to my original question.

[Lorien]

7. My father is morbidly obese (meaning that he's more than 100 pounds

overweight), but I don't accept it. Because I love him the "morbid" part really upsets me.

[flvegan]

17. Is he really 100 lbs overweight?

Or is that the idiotic number churned out because he doesn't fit the skinny ramifications of the stupid, bullshit, BMI index?

Never, ever give any credit to the BMI, ever.

And that, comes from a professional.

[Lorien]

23. Without exaggeration-he's around 400 pounds, or more

he's just under 6 ft. He's so fat that he can barely walk. :-(

[eridani]

37. Cheryl Haworth is shorter than he is and weighs 300 lbs

Your dad may not be all that athletically gifted, but being more active would probably improve his life a lot.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/31/sports/olympics/31haworth.html?pagewanted=1

Made the Olympic weightlifting team again. A versatile athlete, she can run forty yards in 5.5 seconds, jump 30-inch vertical leaps, and perform front, back, and sideway splits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheryl_Haworth

[Lorien]

72. Being 300 and very muscular is very different than being 400 -450 pounds

and having your "exercise" be getting in your car to drive to the end of your short driveway to pick up your mail and newspaper. My father nearly collapses from exertion when he walks to the end of the driveway to get the mail (flat drive, and a very short one too), so he uses that as his excuse as to why he "shouldn't" exercise. He honestly believes that any form of exercise is bad for him! I know that his doctors-who see him frequently because of his pacemaker, high blood pressure and diabetes- disagree with him on that. But there's no getting through to him. At this rate I doubt that he'll ever make it to 70. :-(

[eridani]

88. That's really too bad--there are a lot of fat acceptance sites with extensive hints

--for how even extremely fat people can be more active on a regular basis. My point about Haworth is that she got the way she is by indulging her athletic appetites, not embarking on a career of starving and bingeing.

[El Pinko]

121. Why do you think that the only ways to live are "starve/binge" cycles or constant overeating?

Why are you so opposed to consistent, monitored, moderate eating habits?

It's true that there are a lot of people who go that route - the route of 900 calories a day, pills, shakes, whatever.

But there are other people who have learned to monitor what they eat and eat a balanced diet as a permanent lifestyle without making themselves go nuts from deprivation.

It's cool if *YOU* don't want to to it - it's your life and your body - but why keep spreading the lie that the only choices are starve or overeat?

[Dorian Gray]

124. To be honest, El Pinko

I agree 100% with your post, but I think that it takes a long time for someone who is mired in bad habits to be able to see that it is doable. (And I am talking about myself from experience.)

I am in the process of losing weight. My first year I dieted alone, keeping my calorie intake between 1500 and 1700 per day (with a couple of special days in there so I could enjoy special occasions.) I lost 40 lbs. by dieting alone. It was only about five months ago that I've started working out, in which I've lost another 12 lbs.

But, to get to the point where I realized that you could "diet" without starving... it took a long time. I had the help of a nutritionist who works in conjunction with my doctor, and it's been awesome. My whole relationship with food has changed. I don't "diet," but rather I've changed the way I look at food.

So, you are totally right. We can all do that. But, realizing that and starting is often so overwhelming that we totally avoid doing so!

[El Pinko]

127. 1500-1700 per day isn't "starving", is it?

That's about what I ate when I was reducing - now I stay at about 2000, but have pretty much decided to monitor that permanently.

I've been lifting weights and doing light exercise the whole time. But I don't really believe that exercise does much to help lose weight. I exercise strictly for the health benefits, and lift weights to avoid any kind of muscle atrophy due to the reduced calorie intake.

I don't 'diet' either. I do make sure to keep careful tabs on what I eat, just like I take care of my car or anything else of value.

But I enjoy what I eat. I take my time and savor my food - and I eat the things I like. 3 squares of dark chocolate each day! I have a burger at Mickey D's almost every week (I skip the fries, though). Mostly I eat healthy food, but nothing is "verboten". Well, beer is kind of, because I don't seem to be able to ever stop at just one, so I reserve beer for special occasions only now.

[Dorian Gray]

131. No, it really isn't....

I'm pretty much the same way as you are now. On splurgey days, I eat maybe 2500 cals, but that's if I have a big honking piece of birthday cake.

The easiest way to maintain is to eat the same things for breakfast and lunch most days. It's boring, but it keeps it easier, and gives me a little more allowance for dinner. And I always have a skinny cow ice cream sandwich or a Weight Watchers ice cream pop for dessert! :)

[El Pinko]

132. My breakfasts and lunches are repetitive, too.

At breakfast I always have all-bran and a banana, but that's mainly because I really like them!

At lunch, I have two or three different things I usually have - usually a sandwich and a salad with veggies.

I guess repetition is okay if there is a good balance of carb/fat/protein and adequate fruit/veg.

At dinner I have whatever, but I don't have seconds or eat the kids' leftovers anymore.


It's funny, but when I ate processed foods like the Lean Cuisines, etc. I would be famished on 1500-1700 cal, but after switching to homemade foods and adding a salad for every meal, I was pretty satisfied. Processed foods seem to make you crave more processed foods and they don't fill you up.

My wife introduced me to ponzu - it's a japanese soy & citrus-based sauce that is almost non-caloric but not full of chemicals like diet dressings, and it doesn't taste weird. I use that on my salads most of the time and it's great.

[Marrah_G]

133. I would like to try that ponzu- where do you get it?

I don't like dry salad, but I don't want the calories of the dressings and the "free" dressings all taste like pureed plastic.

[El Pinko]

135. Any Japanese market and many Chinese/general asian market...

...they MAY have it in the ethnic section in your supermarket, but I won't make any promises.

The most common brand name is "Aji-pon".

Just sprinkle a bit on, it's a bit tart, but nice.

[eridani]

139. I'm not opposed at all--I'm just clueing you in to reality

"Consistent, monitored, moderate eating habits" make you healthier and may make you weigh less, but there is virtually no chance that they will change the average fat person into someone of average weight.

[El Pinko]

147. Who said anything about meeting arbitrary standards like "average" person?

People can decide for themselves how much to modify their diet, and what amount of body fat they'd be comfortable with.

Jared Fogle, for one (not that I endorse his subway diet) - he is not exactly rail-thin, but has settled on a weight he feels comfortable at.

I don't think people should fight their genetics to the point that a heavy-build person should try to look like a model. In most cases, that is probably not going to work out well.

The topic is about a MORBIDLY OBESE woman, and the gentleman wants to know how to develop acceptance for her condition.


Returning to that topic, I would add that it is NOT the gentleman's business to tell the lady what to do. He may want to subtly encourage better eating habits by cooking healthy meals for them, or inviting her to active pursuits (ones that wouldn't be too difficult for her). But he shouldn't TELL her to do anything.

I know from experience that when I was heavy, I rebelled at my wife's suggestions to cut down on my eating - in fact I went to the supermarket and would secretly wolf down one of those big individual cake slices they sell just to spite her. I'd wolf down nachos in the middle of the night. I really resented anyone telling me what to do. I finally made a change when *I* was ready.

At least as far as that goes, I think the OP should either accept his new lady friend as she is, or move on. Although I don't agree with major tenets of "fat acceptance", I don't think it's our job to browbeat others around us into losing weight. People need to make those choices themselves, without being judged for having been fat in the first place.

[eridani]

149. Can't disagree with your advice to the OP n/t

[mdmc]

43. I think it is a medical term

I think that it means that you are at least 100 pounds over your idea weight and that the weight causes heart and other health problems.

Honestly, I am okay with a couple of pounds overweight.

[JI7]

2. what do you mean by acceptance ?

if you mean the way people treat each other and to respect others i agree.

[mdmc]

44. That is what I mean,

and I am having trouble. It bothers me.

[JI7]

46. can you tell more and be more specific ?

are you saying YOU are having trouble respecting your girlfriend because of her weight ? or that others are not showing respect to your girlfriend or your relationship because of her weight ?

or are you worried about her health and have trouble accepting her as she is because of that ?

[mdmc]

55. The health thing is an issue

but I am just not physically attracted to the weight.

I don't give a shit about what other people think. I am having trouble with the relationship because I am attracted to slim, normal, or slightly chubby women.

I think I could get past an extra 50 pounds. I'm having trouble with the extra 150 pounds.

I know the weight is not healthy, but it really more of an attraction thing for me. And I think that my focus (on looks, not health) is sad and embarrassing (at least for a liberal).

[JI7]

60. it has nothing to do with being a liberal

you can't control or decide who or whether you will be attracted to someone physically. it either is or isn't.

but you HAVE to talk to her about it. was she already overweight when you met her ? if she was, i don't understand why you decided to get with her other than maybe you felt as a liberal you should be accepting if she is ok in other areas.

if she wasn't overweight but gained weight you need to discuss it with her. if she has a health problem then you should help her even as just a friend.

but this is something you MUST talk to her about. if you aren't attracted to her you can't stay with her if she doesn't want to change. and she shouldn't change just for you but herself also. maybe she would want to be with someone who was attracted to her regardless of her weight.

[mdmc]

61. She was heavy when we met

we casually dated, but I have always told her how I felt.
Sometimes it is very hard.
We are working on things recently (we attend weight watchers and exercise).

You make many good points.

[JI7]

62. so you are open to her about it ?

she knows you aren't physically attracted to her at her weight ? i don't understand why she would want to be with someone who wasn't attracted to her unless she assumes she will just lose the weight and it will be ok.

i don't know about her history and weight, but it's something that can be very difficult. even if she loses it she may gain it back. if she is trying to lose just for you then i'm pretty sure she will gain it back at some point.

i think you just need to be honest with her and maybe break it off. you can remain friends if she would be ok with that and continue helping her.

[mdmc]

65. thanks for the replies

she suffers from PTSD (plus being a fundie, which could be construed as some sort of disorder in itself :) ).

She has mad issues with her past and her family, and she is working on them.

I'm no Adonis either, I should mention.

[angstlessk]

106. I totally agree ...my ex-husband LOVED women with very wide hips and piano legs

I have always refered to my figure as a 'boyish' figure... he left me for someone I would have called fat, but he would fall off a chair trying to catch a glimpse of their 'vital' parts (hips, thighs, and legs)..it is a matter of choice, not everyone loves the run way model types!

[Dorian Gray]

70. That is not about

"fat acceptance," but rather about what you are attracted to.

Does she want to lose weight? Is that something that she's considering? Or is it off the table?

[psychmommy]

75. i am overweight also.

why don't you take walks together in the park or go hiking somewhere pretty. explore the city. fast food is my weakness-why don't you prepare her something healthy. suggest you join the gym together. eventually her weight will affect her blood pressure and puts her at risk for diabetes. if you care about her do it with her. keep healthy snacks in the house, fruits, veggies. i bought a water dispenser so there is always cold/hot water in the house. if you care about her, tell her you want her to be healthy not necessarily skinny. make sure she is going to the doctor regularly. just don't criticize or nag about it. also weight watchers works if you work it. pm me if you want me and her to speak.

[1]

3. i think your acceptance is a great start...

you "walk the walk".

as others see your love, maybe questions will occur to them. questions are good.

keep up the good work.

[ccharles000]

4. If you are both happy...

than I am happy for you. If others see how happy you are than they might get over the uncomfortable feelings they have.

[Beaverhausen]

5. In what way is the weight an issue?

Are you not physically attracted to her?

Have you personally ever had a problem with weight?

[mdmc]

45. yes to both

I love celtic women. She has all the physical features that I am attracted to. It is just the weight that troubles me (there are other things too. other things I can easily overlook. she is also a fundie).

[Beaverhausen]

73. I lost 50 lbs last year

my boyfriend had a hard time with my weight, too, and now of course is happy with the way I look. Part of me thinks - WTF? I am the same woman he fell in love with, there is just now less of me. But I try to understand that men are far more visual, and while logically it shouldn't matter how I look, one has to be physically attracted to their partner, or the relationship just won't work.

He recently lost some weight, and could lose some more. But his being overweight doesn't bother me as much. I still love him no matter what. I am happier he is eating healthier, of course and not to put too fine a point on it, but sex it better. There, I said it.

I think you will get through this if what you are focusing on is the two of you getting healthy, eating right and getting exercise. There are mental as well as physical benefits to doing that. Do it together, and it will be another bond between you.

Weight Watchers is the best by the way. I have kept the 50lbs off for over 10 months. I still go to meetings every week.

[Dorian Gray]

125. Congratulations....

taking the weight off is so difficult, but I bet you feel so much better! Good for you!

[sandnsea]

6. Not sure what you mean

You, friends and family, her self-esteem, general idiots on the planet,

:shrug:

I'm happy you've found someone. Be grateful every day.

[mdmc]

47. I don't know what to say

I should be blessed.
:hug:

[izquierdista]

8. Here's some help

This was a classmate of mine many years ago. He can help with both the weight and the weight acceptance part.
http://www.magicwandcoach.com/aboutpr.htm
and another page of his http://www.magicwandcoach.com/weight-loss.htm

[gateley]

9. Bless your heart -

I don't have any tips, but I wish you the best!

[Double T]

10. No. FAT should NOT be OK or accepted!

If YOU care about HER, find a way to help her lose the weight.

[LeftyFingerPop]

11. You forgot the sarcasm smiley. n/t

[Double T]

13. Oh gees, you're right.....!!!

FAT is beautiful and good for YOU TOO!:sarcasm:

[Sam Ervin jret]

16. how would you know if she is beautiful or not? or in good health?

the ignorance and prejudice in your post is the battle this person has to fight with his/her love.

Try to remember the worth of a person comes from what they are on a level deeper than physical appearance.

Unless of course, like some poor souls, that's all you have. Appearances.

And your false concern for the welfare of the overweight is a thin disguise for your dismissive attitude and contempt.

[eridani]

41. Being 7 feet tall is beautiful and good for you too!

Being 4 feet tall is beautiful and good for you too!

[flvegan]

15. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

If someone is indeed "fat" then acceptance of that fact is what it is...the current state of affairs in regards to the person, yes?

And, that's okay.

It's where you go from here that matters.

Too many times, the chastisement if the "fat" stops being help. Better to step back, say okay we can agree that you have a weight issue and move forwared.

Then, then you help her lose weight.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

20. I agree with you.

When I was in grade school and middle school, I was very fat. People telling me to lose weight, or that I would be so much better if I lost weight didn't help me at all. I felt lower than dirt. I hated myself and because I hated myself I didn't really care to extend my life. I would feel like crap and then eat which made me gain weight and feel like crap again.

For me, fat acceptance is deciding that you are a worthwhile human being, even if you ARE fat and as a worthwhile human being, your life is worth saving by losing weight.

[eridani]

38. Not necessarily

And if she loses weight, by far the most likely outcome is that she will be a fat woman who weighs less than she used to.

[mdmc]

52. I'm on it

And that is the path I have chosen.

Thank you for your replies to this OP.

Peace and low stress and God bless.

[mdmc]

51. I've never pushed her, or nagged

and we go to weight watchers together now (her idea). She can't fit in her class seats (auditorium seating) cause she is so large.
She lost 5 pounds so far. Me, one.
So I am trying.

But you don't think it is okay to live and let live? I smoke pot everyday, and she rarely bitches.

[The Diest]

12. Love is love, but....if her physical appearance is bothering you

this much then it may always be an issue.

My MIL was huge. FIL cheated a lot. He never dealt with it, she never changed. Maybe that is what you need to realise, she is not likely to ever become a thin person. So if it bothers you now, you need to weigh how much physical appearance means to you, and how it will affect the relationship long-term. It is your business, nobody elses.

[Kindigger]

18. very good answer

:thumbsup:

[canetoad]

33. Righto. Love with conditions

great way to go.

[Codeine]

100. All love has conditions.

"Unconditional love" is a destructive and hurtful myth.

[cbc5g]

14. Become an agent of change in her life and help her

Help her lose the weight, it may save her life. Don't talk down to her about it and accept who she is, but let her know that its incredibly DANGEROUS to be obese and that you don't want to see her die early from something that can be prevented.

[Jack_DeLeon]

19. Its your life do whatever makes you happy...

as long as you arent infringing on the rights of others do whatever makes yall happy.

Myself I'm a bit overweight have been more or less all my life and am now working harder on being less so. My personal feelings are that our weight is something that we can ourselves can control if we want to. Its all about willpower and if you want it bad enough.

As for helping your "accept" her weight cant help you there. I tend to like bigger girls myself, albeit not morbidly obese ones. I hear alchol tends to help with acceptance issues. lol.

Anyways if you want ways to try to get her to be more healthy, which you didnt ask for, my advice would be to take her out to a park or some outdoor places fairly often to go walking or do things like taking pictures or something. Also dont go eating out so much make dinner at home. Both of these can be fun, more healthy, and cheap. :)

Also FWIW after we finally run out of oil and society collapses I think that will eventually eliminate the obesity problem as people run out of food. ;)

[mdmc]

53. lol

I've heard some people (like models) cannot store fat because their metabolism is so high. They will be the first to go when the famine hits.

We have started weight watchers and low stress exercises.

Thanks for your reply and suggestions.

You made me smile with the alcohol point.

[LeftyMom]

21. They don't call it morbid obesity for nothing.

Maybe I'm sensitive about this because of a situation going on IRL, but IMO, you can love and accept her, while still offering your support to work toward a healthier weight. Right now her body is sick, and loving and accepting her obesity makes no more sense than loving and accepting her tumor would if she had cancer.

It's not love if it's dependent on change (ie if you'd stop loving her if she stayed the same or put on more weight) but you can certainly love somebody while hoping for a change in their best interest.

[Firespirit]

22. Bookmarking the thread...

I'm "morbidly thin." BMI of sub-17. No nutrition problems; it's a metabolic thing. I've found that there is no more acceptance for that than for being fat, even from one's own family and friends. I am afraid I have no advice to offer, but I'm watching your thread with interest to see what others advise.

[nadine_mn]

24. I am morbidly obese and I don't have fat acceptance fo rmyself

I am fat and hate myself everyday for it...my husband loves me and he is morbidly obese as well. I love him unconditionally - fat or thin.

Most overweight people know they are overweight and need to lose the weight, and many have had people in their life trying to "help" them lose the weight. Some are well meaning and some are just jerks.

I have seen advice posted about helping her lose weight.. as a fat person I don't think your mission should be to help her lose weight ( I get damn angry when people try to help) ...if you love her then support her when she is ready.

[mdmc]

54. thank you

she is doing weight watchers, and I go too.
She hates her weight, and I will do what I can to help her.
Is there anything else, in your opinion that I can do?
I don't nag, I live and let live. Yet I am concerned.

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. Look at the series from Ian Mckenna "I can make you thin."

I swear by it since it works far better than oh any other program I have ever tried

And it does not feel like a diet, since it is NOT a diet

If you decide to get the DVD he also has one tape on body image

[noamnety]

94. I found that guy to be an insufferable twit.

I caught him on late night tv a couple months ago.

And yet ... and yet I've lost 10 pounds since I watched it - without doing much, not dieting or exercising or thinking about it. My chocolate cravings disappeared. *poof*

go figure. :D

the videos from that show are up on youtube, btw.

[nadinbrzezinski]

104. I go the DVDs yes paid for them

since I found him that useful.

And his four rules made all the sense in the world

My hardest habit to break... eating while readying... the first two weeks were hell!

LOL

I hit a plateau but for the first time in my life I don't care....

And I have been riding my bike everywhere near my home now, between him and gas prices!

[pitohui]

108. start by understanding that some things you can't change, they're beyond your control

with all the hatred of fat people, with all the bigotry against fat people, with all the anger and scorn directed their way...almost no one chooses to be fat, but even with the help of doctors, pills, special diets and exercise, most fat people just can't lose the weight and keep it off

at some point you have to acknowledge that something in our society and in our diet makes people large and keeps them that way

it is not in your power

you cannot help your girl lose weight, you probably can't even lose weight yourself, ok, i've read this far and you've both gone to weight watchers, had these miserable discussions, been "concerned" and so on -- and for what, you've lost 5 pounds, all this angst for basically no result

i think acceptance starts with understanding that acceptance is acceptance, what if you can't change, what if she can't change, what if you give up on trying to meet society's ideal and move on to focusing on something else

what if instead of weight watchers you stayed home and did a kinky sex act together you never tried before? i bet that would do a lot more for acceptance of your bodies than struggling to lose weight you probably won't lose anyway

are you having trouble getting turned on? okay, what if instead of weight watchers you experimented with the little blue pill? what if instead of making it her problem you made it your problem, just for one night?

attraction isn't about "acceptance," it's about passion

the problem is not with her 150 pounds, it's with creating a spark

[nadinbrzezinski]

113. Your hubby has medical issues that prevent him from loosing the weight

and he eats like a bird, but he is the exception

Diabetics will also have a harder time loosing

The only thing you said correctly is that Weight Watchers only adds to the starvation\ aka famine\ fat syndrome

Yes it is real

But most folks can and should try to loose a little weight for their health, and even people with severe issues can loose some weight and even perhaps keep it off... ten percent does wonders by the way to health status.

An aunt of mine was morbidly obese, she died very young.. she used to eat like a bird in front of people she knew

But if you caught her at a restaurant, she packed it in.. and this was not even in the US... but that was the way it was. She was ADDICTED to food... and her behavior... I've seen it at the Brookhaven institute series. (Which should be required watching for people who are judgmental since it shows the extent of the disease and yes it is a disease)

Obesity is a disease with physical and psychological components, not only what we have in this society that help people pack it in... and external cues like portion sizes that are highly unrealistic

And it is not just an external issue

And I speak as somebody with health and weight issues... and it has taken quite a bit for me to change how I behave around food... and how I eat. Hey, I plateud and if I don't loose one more pound, I have already done quite a bit to improve my body... and if I start loosing again tomorrow or next year, at a HEALTHY RATE, that will be welcomed too.

[CTyankee]

74. Your post was very moving to me. Hating yourself every day is awful.

Do you think that self hatred is a cause of putting on/keeping on weight? I hear so many obese people say they don't eat that much and they still can't lose weight and I think it's terrible they get blamed. So I can't figure it out. I have a slightly overweight granddaughter, 10 years old and very athletic. Now she just loves food and does have a tendency to eat too much of the wrong things sometimes. But most of the time she eats normally and practically never has junk foods. I think her body shape is just on the heavier side, while her sisters are very thin (making her feel even more "different"). Right now she is very popular in school, an excellent student and a natural leader, but I wonder what will happen in middle school and high school. It's a worry for me...

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. As a person who needs to loose weight and one

with a medical background no, this is not a liberal issue, but an issue of public health

IN reality the coming end of oil will force many of us fat folks to loose the weight

Yes, these days I bike, not drive, cost of gas

And that is coming for more and more people

I will even suggest a series of tapes on this

I can make you thin

McKenna is not preachy and does not blame any of us for it....

In fact, one of his issues is reestablishing self image

But the medical effects of being overweight, especially morbidly obese, are no joking matter

Diabetes and Cardiovascular disease are just among the top of my list

[eridani]

39. It is being genetically diabetic that causes weight gain in adulthood

--at least if you live in a society where there is enough to eat and most work is sedentary. Less oil means more physical activity, to be sure, but what you will have is still quite a few fat people who just weigh less than they used tol

The following is a quote from an article in the New York Review of Books "Godot Comes to Sarajevo" (Vol XL #17, pp 52-59, October 21, 1993) by Susan Sontag. (Not online, unfortunately.) She went there to put on the play "Waiting for Godot" when Sarajevo was under daily bombardment--people wanted artistic diversion as much as they wanted food. The quote is a very brief aside from the main topic.

The only actor who seemed to have normal stamina was the oldest member of the cast. Ines Fancovic, who is 68. Still a stout woman, she has lost more than 60 pounds since the beginning of the siege, and this may have accounted for her remarkable energy. The other actors were visibly underweight and tired easily. Lucky must stand motionless through most of his long scene but never sets down the heavy bag he carries. Atko, who plays him (and now weighs no more than 100 pounds) asked me to excuse him if he occasionally rested his empty suitcase on the floor throughout the rehearsal period. Whenever I halted the run-through for a few minutes to change a movement or a line reading, all the actors, with the exception of Ines, would instantly lie down on the stage.

Another symptom of fatigue: the actors were slower to memorize their lines than any I have ever worked with. Ten days before the opening they still needed to consult their scripts, and were not word-perfect until the day before the dress rehersal.

It ought to be obvious to anybody that Ines was energetic not because of weight loss, but because she had the weight to lose. Note that she is still fat after having endured severe famine conditions for a couple of years. It seems to have been much easier for her to tolerate going from 300# to 240# (my guess) than for Atko(hypothetically) to go from 160# to 100#.

This tells you why some people are fat--more of their ancestors than usual had to withstand conditions like this. It pays to have at least a few people in every society who are still mentally alert and physically capable under conditions that make metabolically normal people weak and stupid, even if they have major disadvantages when times are good. Sure looks like at least one fat old lady could really sing it during bad times.

If you have a metabolism like Ines, the only hope for coming close to "normal" weight is a lifetime commitment to recreating the famine conditions your ancestors were genetically adapted to, and for many people that isn't going to be feasible.

The health nazis think that fat people ought to be required to live under a permanent state of siege, Sarajevo or the equivalent forever. What if you would prefer to have an actual life?

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. I'd rather have the McKenna approach to this

and I have lost weight using it and it is that simple

Eat when you are hungry

Eat what you want, not what you should you have (THere is a slight caveat if you have diabetes... but you get the picture)

EAT CONSCIOUSLY... which means don't shovel food in, but eat SLOWLY... and enjoy every bite (This way you will realize when you are full_

And finally STOP when you are full

As to the health nazis, I have diabetes type two in the family... it is a REAL CONCERN... and it starts as insulin resistance... many people who are fat will develop diabetes and it is not fun

By the way, let me translate what this method means.

If I want to eat a bowl of fries at ten O'Clock at night, go for it, Just do it consciously. I am willing to bet that I will NOT eat the whole bowl

In fact, I left the clean your plate club a while ago and have noticed that I don't eat as much as I used to. Then again I KNOW when I am full these days, and when I am really hungry, That is I know hunger comes in slowly, not sudden... that's emotional

So go ahead, call me a health nazi

But it is a public health concern and once we have national health care, I am betting doctors will be encouraged to improve the health status of their patients... Oh yeah I forgot, they are nazis.

By the way, as a medic I treated a lady who was five hundred pounds. Our gurney could not handle her, and we could not give her the STANDARD OF CARE she needed and it was because of the weight. She survived.... but from what I hear after that scare she decided to loose that weight. I guess we were health nazis then too when we dragged her on several blankets on the floor of an ambulance, and attempted to start peripheral lines and finally medcontrol ordered central. I guess we were nazis then too.

[eridani]

90. Insulin resistance is genetic, period

Why in bloody hell do you assume that following your very common health suggestions will turn a fat person into a thin person? That is utterly irrational. Most fat people who do those things wind up being fat people who weigh somewhat less (and are often healthier).

The health nazis are precisely the people who have pushed fat people into total disconnection from their natural appetites. I'm one of the lucky ones--ran into fat acceptance before a dieting career got a chance to turn me from a 200 lb person to a 300 or 400 lb person. Many of the largest fat people get into fat acceptance as a last final alternative--when they decide they just can't afford to gain any more weight.

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. Yes it is genetic

and it is also a well accepted FACT that people who are insulin resistant or diabetic WILL BENEFIT from a 10% WEIGHT LOSS

By the way, you are right, I am a health nazi, I find it interesting you did not address that patient of mine....

I wonder why.

By the way it also a GENTIC FACT that there is a "fat Gene" in fact several chains to be exact, that does not mean that one is CONDEMNED to a life of morbid obesity

And the approach I posted is a LOGICAL, COMMON SENSE approach... and morbid obesity has MORE than genetic components, as the Brookhaven Institute patients have proven.

Having people LOOSE and KEEP OFF ten percent of their body weight is not that crazy and well within achievable goals

And by the way... the Mckenna approach is NOT a diet

After all I could, if I wanted, right now, have a bowl of ice-cream

Do mention to me any "diet" that allows me to do that.

Hell if I am hungry tonight I can have some Nachos... how about that? With them all fixings... again DO mention a diet that does that

My only change from his approach is that I still have to count carbs.

What it is is a change in how you behave around food, and YOUR SELF IMMAGE

Oh and it is about getting you to move... I just got home from a NICE bike ride, I needed to get my hubbies gift. I didn't drive, I rode a bike

And I try to walk at least six thousand paces a day... more energy.

And I LOOK FORWARDS TO IT

And if you are overweight STUDIES also tell us that on average you walk four thousand, not six thousand, if you SLOWLY and SAFELY increase your paces, you will get MOVING

But you are right, I am a health nazi

For knowing the science of obesity as well and accepting that I will probably never reach my ideal weight but knowing that EVERY FIVE POUNDS I loose and maintain, it is that much better for my health, and realizing that any person who is overweight CAN DO THAT, as long as OTHER issues are taken into account, such as eating that has nothing to do with my physiological need to get energy into my body.

[eridani]

117. There is no evidence whatsoever than weight loss is the direct cause

For one thing, sugar control improves absolutely independently of the amount of weight lost. For another thing, in time-controlled studies the beneficial effects kick in immediately, well before any observable weight loss. Therefore it's the better eating and more exercise which have the direct health benefits. None of the benefits are mediated by weight loss.

In fact, the harder it is for you to lose weight, the more benefits you gain directly from exercise. Therefore, by making weight loss instead of sugar control the measure of success, you are directing serious psychological abuse toward the very people who benefit the most from improving their health habits. What kind of sense does that make?

If you weigh 290 and lose 29 pounds, you weigh 261. If you hadn't noticed, that is STILL FAT, and there is no discernable reduction in the amount of public abuse you are subjected to.

[The Inquisitive]

26. Fat acceptance is a stupid phrase

one should never accept the state of being overfat. Bodyfat percentage is dynamic, extreme excess bodyfat puts unhealthy extra stress on body and by modern standards, is quite unsightly and detracts from the beauty of the human form. Overfat individuals just shouldn't hated and judged too harshly as a result of their body. Albeit a moderate amount of critical judgement provides incentives to act, but in excess can prove paralyzing and demoralizing. Those who are overfat should be encouraged to read up closely LONGTERM proper nutrition and develop a reasonable and performance oriented exercise routine. The human body cannot defy the laws of Thermodynamics, and despite what some seem to think, is incapable of generating mass on its own. With the exception of various metabolic, thyroid disorders, and documented side effects of certain medications, morbid obesity is a manifestation of gluttony which is never good thing, and should never be encouraged.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. You forgot one more, the use of certain drugs

will also bring about weight gain, at times significant weight gain

I know, talking from experience here

[The Inquisitive]

28. good catch

I'll edit that in.

[Hekate]

29. A drug I was prescribed for fibromyalgia helped the sleep-disorder and pain a great deal, BUT....

....only after I went off it did doctors start to admit to me that "tricyclics are notorious for causing weight gain." I used it for close to 20 years and initially didn't gain weight, but once the weight started piling on it became one long miserable self-blaming struggle. I gained almost 60 pounds.

In the past year or so multiple doctors have told me about this side effect and how common and well-known it is. It's infuriating. Within two weeks of stopping the drug, the uncontrollable cravings also stopped. During all this time the only thing that blocked the cravings was fen-phen, and we all know how that turned out. My heart is fine -- I dodged that particular bullet.

There are multiple reasons that people gain weight and keep it on. The self-blame is bad enough, but the contempt of society is heinous.

Hekate

[nadinbrzezinski]

For me it was a diabetes med

Yes, it worked dandy to control my sugars, but after twenty five pounds (since gone), the doctor and I finally went, no.

So I went off it, I am taking older meds, that have the same effect and slowly loosing weight... those twenty five pounds piled on in over six months, took two years to get off them

[Hekate]

80. A drug to treat a disease for which too much weight is dangerous that causes you to gain weight...

You'd think the manufacturers and prescribers would see that as counterproductive right off. I'm very glad you found a good substitute.

I think prescription medications, along with dietary additives (like high fructose corn syrup being in everything), are among the great unacknowledged causes of obesity for more people than we know. How can we possibly do anything to guard against something we don't even know is there? It's real easy to blame people -- not so easy to help them find hidden causes.

As for me, getting this off -- if I ever manage to do it at all -- is going to be a long and awful haul. My whole metabolism has changed, thanks to the interaction of menopause and the weight.

I still have fibromyalgia, despite what my internist thinks. I know that the sleep disorder is back. Fortunately I also have a fabulously expensive mattress now, so I don't hurt very much. (Actually I have two different sleep disorders--apnea is the other one, but at least the treatment for that is mechanical, not drugs.) Oh, and sleep disorders are also implicated in weight gain.

Yes, it's so easy to judge and blame when you don't know what another person is up against, and they don't either.

Hekate

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. I know I have been pushing his method

and no I am not in the staff... but take a look at Paul McKenna's I can Make you Thin series

If they rerun it on TLC watch it, I actually got the CDs.

His method works, and my lord it is extremely simple and he does deal with the metabolic change

These days I carry a pedometer to make sure I walk at least 5000 steps a day, and I bike near my house every day... why Gas.

I know the valley is easier to bike on... but it is a fact that gas has gotten us to go... ok driving to the coffee shop is stoopid, since it is ten minutes from here by bike.

Oh and he does not blame people for it

His method involves a whole way of thinking... and readying your article on the LA Times, yes, he does speak about exercise and its role in changing the metabolism

What i most love about him is... he does not blame people for it...

And yes I hate to be called a health nazi by some folks who really don't realize being fat is not normal either... and that even ten percent weight loss, if it can be kept off, is of a great benefit

Oh and the drug, AVANDIA

[Hekate]

84. Thank you for the tips Nadin. I'll see if I can get the CDs from the library (it's amazing what they

...can get hold of) since we don't get TLC.

Sometime this year I will also be seeing a new doc, one who is actually a specialist in fibromyalgia. Last month I went to a lecture he gave at one of our clinics and was blown away. Unfortunately when I called the next day the earliest appointment I could get with him is December 10 -- I'll call once a month between now and then to see if there are any openings, and if not, Dec. 10 it is. He's a neurologist, and the comprehensive approach he takes to this disorder (which is actually a cluster of disorders) was a revelation to me.

Hekate

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. We live in the same town

if they don't have them, let me know

I KNOW I want my sis to watch them... but they can be circulated

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. For me it was a diabetes med

Yes, it worked dandy to control my sugars, but after twenty five pounds (since gone), the doctor and I finally went, no.

So I went off it, I am taking older meds, that have the same effect and slowly loosing weight... those twenty five pounds piled on in over six months, took two years to get off them

[Hekate]

30. This Monday's LA Times Health section has some surprising info on weight. Link

This link to several articles is *especially* for those in this thread who are or will be making harsh judgments about the overweight. This subject always attracts the genetically lucky thin people who can't fathom the struggles of others.

Hekate

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-he-section2-2008jun02-sp,1,3952965.storygallery

> Special report: Weight loss
> Why it's hard to maintain weight loss
> By Shari Roan
> Can't maintain that post-diet shape? Blame your body. The brain, hormones, metabolism and fat want those pounds back.
> June 2, 2008

[El Pinko]

130. LOL - key words- "post-diet"

if there was any recipe for disaster, it's the notion of a "diet" as a temporary means to losing some arbitrary amount of weight by some arbitrary date.

Changes in eating habits and portion control work, but only when they are PERMANENT changes. Go on a diet, then go off it, of course you gain weight!

It's really not that complex, there's even a calculator to help you estimate.

http://caloriecount.about.com/cc/calories-burned.php

Click your gender, age, height and activity level along with the weight you WANT to be and click "calculate".

It will give you a maintenance calorie intake for that weight. Track your calories and eat that amount or slightly less and you will eventually reach that weight and then maintain it.

But when you get there, you continue to stay at that intake. There is no "finish line". Maintenance requires as much dedication as weight loss - for life.

Some people don't care to go to the trouble. For me, it's been worth it. It takes 15 minutes of my day tops to track all I eat.


I wouldn't put a harsh judgment on anyone. If I didn't measure what I eat, and I only stopped eating when my brain told me to stop eating, I'd eat twice as much, even though my body doesn't need it.

I don't know if I was born without the switch that says "that's enough", or if it was ruined by being forced by my parents to "clean my plate" and eating too much American junk food growing up, but the fact is that I am never satisfied until I'm stuffed. That's the one drawback of this lifestyle. For the most part, after a meal, I'm no longer "hungry", but I'm also not really "full" either. I do kinda miss that feeling, but I only get "full" on Thanksgiving and my birthday now...

[Festivito]

31. Accept yourself, the rest will follow.

Love her as her.

If you love her fat rather than her, I'd suggest, strongly, to try to be a little less shallow. (Not say'n, just covering a base)

Love her as much as you love yourself, and don't forget to like yourself and love who you are, otherwise what import is there to loving someone else as much as yourself. For that, you have to live a life that makes you proud of yourself.

In fact, love should flow from you. Or, you're nothing.

So, I guess that makes it a liberal issue; issue love liberally. (otherwise you're just making noise, or in this case typing a bunch of letters.)

[canetoad]

32. FFS stop reading shit posts

here on DU about issues that should not concern anyone. Examine your own mind and conscience and ask if you have been consistent in thought, deed and action. Then tell them all to go fuck themselves.

[KT2000]

34. Just this

my niece is also obese. She married a young man who must have liked his girls fat. She must have been very happy to be relieved of the stress of being constantly concerned about her weight.
She gained even more weight.

She had a baby and needed special care because there could have been serious problems because of her weight.

I don't really have an answer for you, but I hope that your love for her will encourage her to get healthier because acceptance like my niece had, was not good for her health. I guess it is a fine line.

[El Pinko]

35. If you like the girl, don't you want her to have a long, healthy life?

Being morbidly obese is a surefire route to immobility/disability disease and premature death.

Am all for acceptance, even celebration of less-than-supermodel figures.

But morbid obesity is something that should be FOUGHT.

Accepting it is condemning someone you love to misery and death.

[eridani]

40. Except for the slight problem that fighting it makes it a lot worse

Quite a bit of obesity in our society has been seriously exacerbated by constant dieting.

[El Pinko]

42. Yo-yo diets, fad diets and crash diets, yes.

Permanent changes to eating habits and portion control do work in conjunction with regular moderate exercise (just a stroll once a day is fine!)- I lost 100 lbs this way several years ago and have kept it off because I did not go on a diet - I made a permanent change. And it's the increased quality of life that is most important, not improved appearance.

Those who are dealing with PCOS and thryoid conditions may have extra obstacles to overcome, but even these people benefit from dietary modification and getting their weight out of "morbidly obese" territory and into "overweight" territory.

I'm not one of those people who wants everyone to be skinny. But I draw the line at accepting morbid obesity. This is a major bone of contention I have with NAAFA.

On the other hand, I'm not a big fan of gastric surgeries, except as an absolute last resort. Many people die from it. Walking the path in between overeating and crash dieting is tough, but it can be done.

[eridani]

91. Excuse me, but there are thousands who did exactly what you did--

--and lost much less weight, some losing very little weight. You are not better than they are, and you have a lot of gall implying that everyone who doesn't get the same results is doing it wrong.

Staying out of the sun makes my skin notiecably lighter--surprisingly, there are quite a few people out there who can do the same thing and get no visible results. Fat acceptance has a track record of preventing fat people from turning into extremely fat people--for many it's a last resort. They sign on because they can't afford to gain any more weight.

[El Pinko]

105. I didn't say I was better than they are, just healthier.

NT

[eridani]

116. You aren't necessarily healthier, either

Monitoring glycemic index and exercising more typically leads to at least some weight loss in insulin resistance. However, there is no relationship whatsoever between the amount of weight lost and control of blood sugars. Also, the effects kick in well before any significant amount of weight is lost.

[El Pinko]

120. I never had high blood sugar or high blood pressure.

I was fat, had GERD, ankle pain, constricted breathing, constant gas and lethargy.

By getting diet soda, beer and processed/junk food out of my diet while monitoring overall calorie intake, I got my weight down, still eating 3 hearty meals and a snack every day. I just don't eat until I'm FULL (and don't eat between meals or out of boredom).

You can tell me I'm not healthier now that I have full mobility, no more pain or other discomforts that come with 100 lbs of extra flab, but there's no way I'll buy it.

If you want to live your life swaddled in a suffocating layer of life-sapping fat, by all means do so, but please don't try to pass it of as "healthy".

[eridani]

128. Even if you had lost very little weight, your health would have improved with your new behaviors

I'm fat and have never had any of those problems. I am genetically insulin resistant, but have been able to keep my A1c values under 7. Sure, I could bike up hills faster if I weighed less, but then if only I were smarter, I would have won a Nobel Prize by now.

[El Pinko]

129. I wish I could "gain brain" as easily as I lost weight...

...I would have invented the car that runs 500 miles on old coffee grounds by now.

My only "new behavior" was portion control and nixing beer, diet soda and most processed foods.

I always exercised, even when I was fat, but it didn't help.

A friend suggested I try tracking on fitday.com. Suggested to be 100% honest and thorough about tracking what I ate.

I found that I had been eating around 3500 - 4000 calories per day, on average.

I was amazed at how much I had been eating.

Honestly, didn't mind how I LOOKED when I was fat (although my wife complained).

I thought I looked great. I think a lot of heavy people look good - Jack Black, Queen Latifah, etc. Sexy people, IMO.

But I felt like crap, and my cholesterol was pretty high, so I followed the doc's advice and changed my eating habits.


If you're healthy with extra weight, more power to you - if you're riding a bike, it stands to reason you're not bedridden and 800 lbs. Would you even discourage these people from reducing their calorie intake?

[eridani]

140. Well, no wonder it worked--you were eating a lot more than average

Most fat people don't, and some are already eating less than average. You can no more guess how much someone eats by looking at their weight than you can guess how much time they spend in the sun by looking at their skin color.

[El Pinko]

141. That may be so - individuals are responsible for their own body maintenance.

There are undoubtedly people with metabolic factors that prevent them from easily staying at a healthy weight.

There are also a lot of people who, like me, drastically underestimate how much they eat. These people are not "gluttons", but they are eating more than their bodies need. One needn't be a glutton or a lazy slob to have a surplus calorie intake - the difference between maintaining a steady weight and gaining dozens of pounds can be as little as 100-200 calories a day. That's a soda pop!

I'm not making judgments about what people eat by looking at them, not am I against acceptance of fat people. But the fat itself, especially morbid obesity, is not to be accepted when it cripples and threatens to kill.

You seem very fond of comparing body weight/body fat to skin melanin content and height/IQ as a way of promoting your personal belief - that a person's weight is somehow set in stone and that being proactive in changing one's weight from what it tends to be is somehow rebelling against nature or a destructive act.

That's what I have trouble understanding.

People have a right to be respected and free of undue discrimination whether they are fat or thin.

If they can afford it and don't mind the health risks/consequences, then they also have the right to eat as they please and be as fat as they please, as far as I'm concerned. I don't even support health insurance companies trying to punish or redline fat people or smokers on this type of thing, because once we start using lifestyle factors to winnow out insurance pools, we venture into totalitarian territory, and the types of lifestyle factors being punished could be nigh on endless (motorcycle riders, sedentary workers, women who use a lot of nail polish, etc.)

I don't think everyone needs to be thin. Some people were simply not made to be thin. But I would hope that everyone would at least try to stay in a weight range where their mobility and bodily functions are not adversely affected.


But you seem to have a real problem with any sort of dietary management or limitation besides improving the "healthfulness" of the contents of the diet, and I really don't understand that.

Not all dietary modifications are about starvation, fad or otherwise, and not all fat people are PCOS, hypothyroid or diabetic.

I just wish you could concede that changes in caloric intake over the long run can pay off in terms of health and healthier body fat %, when they are adhered to permanently.


It's fair to point out that 95% of people who lose a lot of weight gain it back. There are many reasons for that - in some cases, it's recidivism - giving up on the "diet" because of having reached a "goal".

In other cases, it's refeeding syndrome, caused by overly severe restriction of calorie intake. This is almost an uncontrollable impulse in people whose bodies have been starved for too long. STARVING IS NOT THE WAY TO DO IT.



I understand how your experiences motivate your desire to prevent others from suffering what you did- IE the starvation/refeeding cycle which truly is murder on the body and metabolism.

But please understand how those of us whose lives have improved through sensible caloric management (not "diets") and moderate exercise are equally committed to helping others to escape the discomforts of overfat, if indeed that's what they want to do.




Yes, I was an emotional overeater. I self-medicated with beer and junk food. Oh, and once I got that beer in me, there was no stopping how many chips, etc. I could eat! Getting off the beer and diet soda made a HUGE difference for me. I was so addicted to diet soda, I would drink nothing but diet soda all day long, usually going through a whole 2 liter bottle a day. And for some reason, the more diet soda I drank, the more I craved cookies and cake and the like! The beer, in addition to lowering my food inhibitions, kept me on a mood roller-coaster - euphoria when I drank it, hangover in the morning, fatigue next afternoon, and vague discomfort all week until Friday when I could have beer again. This roller-coaster left me that much more susceptible to wanting to fill up on junk to feel better.

But yeah, different things work for different people. I know some people who swear by aspartame products. Personally, I'd never touch the stuff again. If I was diabetic, I'd rather drink unsweetened plain tea than something spiked with that garbage...

[eridani]

143. One's weight range is certainly set in stone

--given that the most important environmental factors are 1) living in a society with enough to eat and 2) living in a society where most work is sedentary. You can't do anything about those things, any more than you can change your genetics.

There is no such thing as "needing" some specific number of calories. The entire notion is bullshit, being based on the misconception that your metabolism is like a bank account where any "surplus" must go to "savings," i.e. fat. It is nothing of the sort. It is a complex, feedback regulated system in which changing caloric intake or activity levels rapidly changes what number of calories you "need." If it's in any way like a bank account, it's one in which the bank's programmers remove and add funds independently of any deposites or withdrawals you make. "Sensible calorie manangement and moderate exercise" are good things to do, but you have absolutely ZERO, NADA, NOT ANY WHATSOEVER control over what effects such changes will have on your individual body. It is precisely the failure of such regimens to turn most fat people into people of "healthy" weight that motivates the extreme measures in the first place. That doesn't mean the regimens are bad, just that the resulting weight losses are often perceived as inadequate. Statistically, of course, a few will lose fairly amounts of weight, but that is utterly meaningless to everybody else.

If you graph BMI data for every person in the country who eats 2000 calories a day and make another graph for everybody who eats 3000 calories a day, you get two overlapping standard curves. The difference between the high end and the low end of each curve is genetic. The difference between the two midpoints of the curves is behavior related, and is somewhere between 5 and 15 pounds.

Fat acceptance is where super-sized people tend to eventually wind up, mainly because they are terrified of continuing to GAIN weight. Acceptance typically results in weight stabilization, and hanging out with the like-minded connects you to resources like specialized exercise classes and manufacturers of larger sized in exercise clothing. I'm in what is called the "mid-sized" category, that is to say heavy enough to get discrimination, but with no mobility or public access issues. I credit fat acceptance from keeping me out of the "super-sized" category.

[eridani]

36. Health advice for fat people is pretty much the same as for thin people

Eat a healthier diet, and be as active as you can be. If your weight is still a lot higher than average, anything you might seriously consider doing about it is likely to be a lot worse for you than just staying fat.

[El Pinko]

48. "A healthier diet" is not just quality, but quantity.

Nobody on earth should really be eating over 3000 cal per day, even if it's all in tofu and salads and bran and fruit.

The standard American's diet is almost twice as many calories as we need for good health. It's no wonder that even people who were thin in their teens and early adulthood are often fat by middle age...

"Fat People" is not some unique minority group - it's a majority of the population in the US.

We'd be wise to take a cue from the Japanese, who eat about half as many calories and small portions, and have obesity rates a fraction of ours.

[eridani]

86. That's mainly genetic. Coastal people in Europe and Asia--

--have a far lower incidence of Syndrome X. Any URLs that establish that the average Japanese person is eating 1500 calories a day?

[El Pinko]

109. I couldn't find them but have seen stats

That the average intake for a woman in Japan is around 1500, 1900 for men, while American women consume about 2400 calories and men well over 3000.

I don't suppose you have stats about metabolic syndrome in these countries on hand?

Also you should concede your belief that obesity is "caused by" diabetes and metabolic syndrome.

Most medical authorities tend to point the finger to overweight as the cause or at least an aggravator of metabolic syndrome and type 2 diabetes (although it is clearly not the reason for the higher susceptibility in some individuals)

http://healthcare.utah.edu/healthinfo/adult/diabetes/type2.htm


Have you been to Japan? The difference in serving sizes alone is astounding.

I wouldn't be surprised if the lower instance of metabolic syndrome was due to lower calorie intake and lower body fat percentages (visceral fat in particular).

We seem to have a fundamental disagreement - you believe the overfat is a symptom of health conditions, and I tend to view it as a cause of them.

Neither of us are doctors specializing in the field so people can do their own research to determine that - but I think we can at least both agree they should avoid websites that say "lose weight fast on the XXX diet or with XXX pill!"

"Fast" is not the best way to go about losing weight. It's the best way to drive yourself nuts and then have a massive rebound weight gain.

[eridani]

115. It all starts with genes

If you live in a society where there is enough to eat and most work is sedentary, you will gain weight in adulthood. This starts a positive feedback cycle which increases insulin resistance, which in turn makes weight gain far easier, which worsens insulin resistance, and so on. If you can voluntarily go hungry for your entire life, this won't happen.

Insulin resistance is most common in Eastern Europe and central and south Asia. Also pockets in Africa, and the tendency traveled from central Asia to the Americas.

Japanese eat 2000-2900 calories a day on average.
http://www.nwf.org/population/whatsfordinner.cfm
http://kiifc.kikkoman.co.jp/foodculture/pdf_10/e_002_007.pdf

[Scout]

151. "Most medical authorities" know next to nothing about diet and nutrition

one of the fattest people i have ever seen is a pediatrician :eyes:

[pitohui]

110. have you ever been to japan, el pinko, i suspect not

far from eating half the calories and portions we do, they eat fried pork on a stick and colonel sander's

[El Pinko]

114. Yes, for years and visit on a regular basis.

And they do eat much smaller portions, despite the availability of western junk food (NOT everyday fare - KFC in particular is not cheap)

Sorry, I strongly disagree. Sure you can get a pretty heaping helping of ramen in a ramen stand, but again - not necessarily everyday fare. People usually eat at home.

If they have a glass of juice, the glass is tiny. The servings on plates are tiny. Japanese people would die of shock if they saw the size of a serving at Chili's "although it might be fair to mention that that is not necessarily everyday American fare, either - but it is too much for even most Americans to finish).

I work as a translator - one of the frequent jobs I do is translate comments from passengers on cruise lines. The NUMBER ONE most common complaint from Japanese passengers on US cruise lines is that the servings are TOO BIG. They also complain about unavailability of japonica rice ("sushi rice") and the tendency for flavorings to be overwhelming and lack subtlety.


Besides, a small serving of KFC won't kill you or make you fat - having too much of it too often is the problem.

Do you disagree that most Americans consistently eat too much?

[Dorian Gray]

126. I lived in Hong Kong

and find the same thing that you do. There is an abundance of fast food there, but it is something that they eat sparingly. (For the most part.) I never saw anyone supersizing anything while living there. Two girls would split a small fry for a snack with a bottle of water. They'd eat Ramen for lunch, but after draining it with water to get the oil out.

[EOTE]

137. That's not true regarding intake.

Certainly, very few people should be eating over 3000 calories per day, but everyone's intake should be determined by how many calories they burn during the day. I know that many Olympic athletes consume over 12,000 calories per day and still end up losing weight. There are other people who burn quite a few calories doing nothing all day and might consume 4000 calories a day and still maintain a good weight. It all depends on who you are and the activities you do.

[El Pinko]

138. I'm not saying there is no individual variation...

and I'll concede that "nobody on earth" is a bit of an exaggeration, but very few people need that many calories.

Olympic athletes are the exception to the rule, and even they pay close attention to the content of their diets, for the most part.

It's true that there is a lot of individual variation.

But if you are eating a "typical American diet", and not pigging out on Cinnabons or whatever, and are puzzled by why your weight keeps rising, it might behoove you to sit down with the tools at fitday and calorie count and really scrupulously add up what you eat in the course of the day. Many people would be surprised to find out how high that number can be once you add in every coffee cream pack and mayonnaise glob. Little things add up, and restaurant servings are huge. Most Americans work sedentary jobs. They can't eat the same volume as they did when they were kids playing kick the can and expect to stay at a healthy weight.

Also, with every decade of age beyond age 30, our daily calorie needs decrease by about 100 calories, so with each decade, we need to lower our intake or up our exercise by that amount just to break even.

[NuttyFluffers]

49. go dancing at a nightclub

go shopping for beautiful, fashionable clothes.

go live your lives outside and in public suffused in your mutual joy.

happy people having fun and doing everyday things are easily accepted. if you live like that anyone who get up all in your grill are either bitter or nosey. and you'll be surprised how often public will side with happy, innocuous people over bitter or nosey people.

there, fat acceptance -- or more like happy people acceptance who just happen to be fat.

[lightningandsnow]

50. Awesome post!

You are totally right.

[mdmc]

57. thank you for checking in my dear friend

Just so you know I read everything that you post here on DU with great interest.
You have made me think a great deal and have opened my eyes in ways that no one has been able to do in "real life".

Thanks for posting here and please keep it up.

Peace and low stress...

[lightningandsnow]

59. Aww, thanks!

You're pretty awesome yourself.

:hug:

[NuttyFluffers]

119. embrace the beauty, let it shine.

like a squeaky toy, if you hug people they glow! :D
glad you enjoyed my comments. now go out and spread your light.
:hug:

[mdmc]

56. Agreed and thanks

We do that. This is an issue within myself. I really don't care what others think.

[NuttyFluffers]

118. browse through clothes catalogs together

and have a good tailor's number.

you don't care what others think, ok. but i assume you want to see your lover in a more seductive way. well, just like decorating rooms, it's all about color, fabric, silhouette, and lighting.

i can guarantee you i can take a wonderfully fit person and dress them like a sad sack of potatoes. but i can also take a Rubenesque figure and create a Venus just as well. sexy beauty is surprisingly 1 part physical attributes, 1 part decor, and 2 parts attitude. and since a new look can make someone feel better about themselves, it's far easier to create sexy with decor than fussing with physical attributes.

so learn a few style basics and go have a wonderful time shopping. see anything with great lines but not in size, voila', call the tailor. nothing, and i really must stress this, nothing beats hand-tailored clothing, especially if it's crafted from scratch.

we walk around clothed far more than naked, so find beautiful clothing to match the beauty you find within her.

[MrScorpio]

58. There's a point where obesity becomes a serious health issue

I don't have an issue with a few extra pounds

But I think a line should be drawn when the fat starts killing a person

[cap]

63. morbidly obese means that she has a real problem that will kill her

She needs to be in a medically supervised weight program. Period. Don't blame her for the weight. There is a real good chance that she has a medical/genetic condition that has triggered it. She needs a holistic program that deals with her medical problems, deals with psychological issues and gives psychological support, as well as weight management. It is a multi-dimensional problem. She may wish to choose bariatric surgery. But get a really good doctor.

Do not underestimate the amount of time you will spend dealing with health issues if you get serious with her. You will be doing hospital time at some point.

[pitohui]

111. if you get serious with anyone you'll be doing hospital time at some point

that's sort of what the part about "until death do us part" means

noone gets out of this alive

my skinny mom had quadruple bypass surgery

my skinny grandma had anorexia and alzheimer's

being skinny ain't no guarantee of anything, it just means what puts you in the hospital may be different from what puts the chubby gal in the hospital

i've had lifelong health issues and i'm thin, i've been under doctor's care much more than my chubby hubby

pretending that pressuring your partner to lose weight about health is just sooo hypocritical, it isn't about weight, it's about trying to impress when in public, i say get over it already

i'm glad my husband didn't dump me because i had medical issues, but then that's sort of what love is, "in sickness and health"

[cap]

122. I'm married to someone who is morbidly obese due to metabolic reasons

trust me when I say you are in and out of the hospital. It has nothing to do with looks and everything about quality of life together. It means that more than the average couple you will be spending time in the hospital.

There are 3 ways to define overweight medically: overweight, obese, morbidly obese. Each is defined by BMI numbers. Morbidly obese means you will die sooner than the average person from weight related problems. You will not be so lucky as to just die in your sleep. You will suffer a lot of pain beforehand and put you and your loved one through a number of scares before you depart. A lot of health problems that the elderly face, you will be facing much earlier and for a longer period of time.

Do not underestimate the difficulties you will face. If you arent serious, move on. If you are, understand what you are in for. Do not try and solve this problem yourself. Your SO needs medical help. Even some weight loss can go a long way towards mitigating some very bad consequences. You can't pressure your loved one into weight loss -- let the doctors work out the issues.

[BigDaddy44]

64. This is a ridiculous post

Your girlfriend is fat. And you want her skinny. So you're asking advice from internet strangers on how you can accept that she's fat. Either help her lose weight or live with it. Yep, guess thats about it.

If you find a better answer, let me know. I've got a friend with ugly acceptance issues.

[mdmc]

66. thanks for the post

but your reply is where I was when I started. We are working on our weight (I'm no Adonis), and I am trying to "live with it".

A couple of weeks ago I saw a wedding picture in the newspaper. Some super hot blond was marrying this guy that looked like a cross between Freddie Kruger and the dude from mask. I thought, "What the F?"

It turns out that he survived an attack in Iraq. He was a burned up ugly motherfucker, but his hottie still loved, and married him.

So even ugly acceptance issues can be taken care of.

[Sheets of Easter]

67. Size, shape and or figure acceptance is a great thing.

But being "morbidly obese" is nothing to accept.

I say this as an obese person trying to manage his weight, whose SO had a gastric bypass to deal with her weight.

[lapislzi]

68. My SO is a pretty big guy

I hesitate to call him "morbidly obese" because although that's what the doctor suggests, I have seen photos of him at a so-called "normal" weight and he looks ridiculously emaciated. He will also never be able to get to that weight again. It's just not going to happen at his (our) age (late 40s). However, we eat a mostly vegetarian diet, exercise the recommended amount and generally try to follow healthy practices. We're aware of anti-fat bias--it's amazing how insensitive people can be. They'll take me aside and ask me, "doesn't it bother you that he's so big?" My response: "doesn't it bother people that you're so rude?"

The answer is that sometimes it's a problem--when he can't squeeze into an airline seat comfortably, for instance. "But love is not love which alters when it alteration finds, nor bends with the remover to remove." I knew what I was getting into, and ours is indeed a marriage of true minds. I hope yours is too.

I applaud you for your efforts to move beyond the merely physical.

[Dorian Gray]

69. No....

I don't know where to begin. But, if you are in love with her, her weight can or can't be an issue for many reasons.

I have recently lost 50 lbs., as I was really unhappy with my weight and the effects of it upon my health. My cholesterol was high, my bp was high. I just didn't feel good and I was out of breath all the time. I had sleep apnea. Losing the weight and controlling my diet has done wonders for me. But, it took me years to et to the point where I wanted to do something about it, and not everyone feels the same way that I did about being overweight.

My advice to you is to love your woman regardless of her weight. If she expresses a desire to lose weight, be super supportive of her. (My husband often tried to sabotoge my diet by suggesting eating out at some of my favorite restaurants. He didn't do it vindictively, but I had to pick and choose when I could go and learn to say "NO!" to his suggestions.)

Good luck with your partner. I hope that whatever happens between the two of you goes well. :)

[guitar man]

71. call 1-800-MIX-A-LOT

:D

But, seriously, I've been married to a big woman for 16 years and I can tell you, as the years go by, you'll find out that there are a lot more important things in life than how she looks. If she has the personality and you connect well on a personal level, that's what is going to count in the long run.

My concerns over my wife's weight have always been for her health, not about how she looks. Hell, looks fade for all of us as time goes by. She will always be beautiful to me no matter how big or small she gets.She stuck by me during some of the hardest times of my life and helped pull me through. That's what counts.

But then again... "I like big butts and I cannot lie,You other brothers can't deny....." :D

[Blu Dahlia]

78. I have been in her shoes. Never morbidly obese,

but 50 pounds overweight. It was all I could think about and I was obsessed. If she is unhappy about it then your relationship is doomed until she gets her weight under control. Even then it will take years for her to build her self image back up to normal levels and not be paranoid about becoming fat again. Sorry.

[NickB79]

81. Thank you for asking this question

I'm pretty much in the same boat right now. My 5'-3" tall GF has gained 50 lbs in the past 3 years, to 200 lbs. She's naturally a bigger girl (no problem with that) but the trend she's on is not promising. I'm struggling with the same problems that you are right now. Our sex life has diminished badly, and I worry about our long-term chances as a couple if she doesn't adopt a healthier lifestyle. She's beginning to have joint and lower back pain, her energy levels have fallen, and she seems to get sick more easily and take longer to improve than she used to. We've begun discussing marriage and children, and I'm concerned that her weight could make it harder to conceive since she already has other gynecological problems.

I try to lead by example, cooking healthier meals at home, giving up soda in favor of diet soda or water, taking stairs instead of escalators or elevators, etc. We go out on walks now that the weather is nice, and I've pulled out the old DanceDanceRevolution gamepad and purchased a few new games for it (she likes video games). It has helped a little; her weight has stabilized for the past year. A big stumbling block for her has been that she works a hectic schedule and goes to college right now. I'm hoping that once she graduates in Sept. she'll have more free time for us to get exercise together. I have another female friend that was in her exact situation a few years ago, and she lost 30 lbs on WeightWatchers. I've tried to encourage her to go with to the meetings, but so far she's resisted. I don't push though; that is almost guaranteed to backfire and make her more resistant to weight loss.

Sorry I don't have any magic bullets to this problem, but just be patient and encouraging. Good luck!

[slackmaster]

82. I think it's unreasonable to expect yourself to adjust your tastes for "PC" reasons

A person's preferences in the physical traits of lovers is pretty much hard-wired.

[Moloch]

87. Yes.

Fat people should lose weight and then they will be more accepted.

[Missy Vixen]

93. Good thing you're here

I haven't had my dose of anti-fat BS today.

Julie

[undeterred]

89. If you love someone, you accept them as they are.

People have the strength to change when they are loved, not when they are judged.

I suspect that many men who say they are concerned about their lady's weight for health reasons are really more concerned about themselves being seen with a fat woman.

Accept her. Any decision to change has to be hers alone, not done to please you.

[Missy Vixen]

95. Undeterred, bingo

>I suspect that many men who say they are concerned about their lady's weight for health reasons are really more concerned about themselves being seen with a fat woman.<

THANK YOU.

It has nothing to do with health (unless the guy in question is one of the few here that are actually more concerned with health; flvegan comes to mind. He's gone out of his way to be encouraging and offer advice to those of us who might want to find ourselves in better condition.) It's everything to do with "Ewww, she's fat, and that makes ME look bad."

The sheer numbers of those "concerned" by weight issues are ALWAYS concerned with looks. They're also the first to chime in with diet and exercise "advice", when they've never had any problem at all with weight. Of course, they're experts.

Julie

[undeterred]

96. Well it seems that fat makes a woman invisible.

Lose weight, suddenly she is visible. Interesting how that works.

And funny how men who don't notice a woman who is overweight- suddenly notice her when she slims down. And funny how she isn't going to be interested in men who didn't think she was worth getting to know before she lost weight.

[Firespirit]

97. Erm.... up to a point.

I don't dispute what you say about overweight women, not one bit. But it's a misconception that thin women have men gaping at us.

My BMI is 15.9. I'm hypermetabolic, and there's no apparent reason for it. I have a hyperactive thyroid but I don't have Graves' Disease. I cannot gain weight no matter what I eat. The only looks I get from anyone, male or female, are the "OMG you look awful" pitying looks -- and they have a point; my face is gaunt. I have complete strangers tell me that I need to gain weight. My own mother told me a month ago that I looked anorexic. But this is normal and healthy for me.

Men are just shallow, I guess.

[undeterred]

98. I wasn't meaning to make a point about thin women

as that is pretty much outside my experience. But between normal and overweight a woman's "stock" goes up or down with every 10-15 lbs. Some of the men outgrow it, a little bit. But most men are brainwashed to be attracted to unrealistic standards of weight for women. A man's extra 30 lbs are overlooked in middle age; a woman with an extra 30 lbs has "let herself go".

[Firespirit]

99. Hmm... I guess things are different in the younger generation

I've never weighed over 108... but for my whole life I've watched as girlfriends in the average-to-slightly-above range get the attention and the SO's. It's not just men, unfortunately -- I'm bi, and I have had no better luck with other women. Once I was in a bar with a friend who was high average in weight. I was sitting right next to her and watched her get attention and compliments, while I was ignored entirely. It makes me think "what the hell are people talking about" with respect to thin women having it great.

But, again, I think it must be a generational thing. As the mean and median weight go up, it becomes more normal to people's eyes.

I guess that this change is a good thing for women in general. :shrug:

[undeterred]

101. Maybe it is generational-

my generation of men can't see past the supermodels. As for woman-woman relationships, I guess I just assumed women are more accepting of each other than men are of women. Maybe not.

[Scout]

152. excellent point, that has been my experience exactly

and the ones who didn't want me when i was "fat" but then did want me when i was "thin" i told they could go home, get flexible and FUCK THEMSELVES.

[Ilsa]

92. MDMC, I hope she has seen a doctor and been checked for

any underlying medical condition that could cause a problem like this, like thyroid.

I have no suggestions. Love her if you can. Ask yourself if her being a fundie is really bothering you more since you mentioned it twice (that I counted).

Good luck and best wishes.

[leftyclimber]

102. There are clearly things you really love about her.

What are they?

Think about them.

Then decide if those things are more important to you than what she weighs. If they're not, you need to be honest with yourself, because you're not being fair to her. From what you've said in later posts, she's struggling a bit with herself and her self-image. And it sounds like you really care about her, which is an important thing to realize. It's also important to realize that you're operating under some societally induced preconceptions, which you also appear to have realized.

Make sure you are helping her love herself, if she is struggling. She needs to know that she is beautiful to you. Always, no matter what. Whether it's her weight, or whether she's been horribly disfigured, no matter what the deal is, she has to be beautiful to you.

IOW, what you love about her inside should be more important than her outside.

I think you know this.

-lefty, who struggles with her weight every day and is with someone who thinks she is beautiful no matter what, which helps

[pitohui]

107. my husband is overweight, here is my experience

acceptance is not an issue in your personal life if you're turned onto that person because they share your fetish, sex games, and sense of exploration -- passion is not a size

as far as the world at large, i have no clue, from time to time i try to educate people, most of whom probably possess less than half the IQ of my husband, but they choose to feel superior and are happy to ignore that being fat is not about brains or willpower or anything other than physiology -- he has metabolic syndrome -- but some people will always prefer to be ignorant and to make judgements based on ignorance -- if your girl is "morbidly" obese, the chance is high that there is a genetic or medical issue largely beyond anyone's control and those who want to make judgments about her character based on that are just showing their own ass

IME unobservant people manage to go thru life never noticing that fat people generally eat less than skinny people and trying to open the eyes of the deliberately unobservant is pretty much a waste of breath-- when people start yapping about calories out/calories in, try to refrain from picking up your shotgun and hosing them down, i know, it's tempting

as the skinny member of the duo, and the one who does the cooking, i shake my head because i can see from the inside how much more i eat than he does and the challenges he faces, but at the end of the day, people who are determined to be bigoted will be bigoted and there isn't a lot you can do except ignore them and be supportive of your partner

[LeftyMom]

112. If she were "the one" (stupid though that concept is) her body would not be an issue.

If finding her attractive requires effort on your part, she isn't the one you're looking for. If she were, even if she's a complete 180 from your normal type, you'd think she was the loveliest vision your eyes had ever beheld.

[Phred42]

123. If you love her - make her stop eating or she won't be around very long

Every time she feels like eating - Put something in her mouth besides food



:popcorn:


Thank you - I'll be here all week.....

[undeterred]

134. Here you are.

[Phred42]

136. not nice

[El Pinko]

142. And insinuating that all a hungry woman needs is a cock in her mouth is nice?

I mean really, you're one to talk...

[Phred42]

144. WHo said anything about that?

get your mind out of the gutter

[El Pinko]

146. Yeah, right.

If you love her - make her stop eating or she won't be around very long

Edited on Fri Jun-06-08 10:04 PM by Phred42
Every time she feels like eating - Put something in her mouth besides food



:popcorn:


Thank you - I'll be here all week.....


It doesn't take a "mind in the gutter" to figure out that punchline.

[Scout]

153. were you born an asshole? or do you work at it? n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

145. Morbid obesity is a medical condition which needs to be treated

The 'morbid' part indicates that it is likely to cause condition which greatly increase morbidity. Morbidity is death.

Should we also push for acceptance of alcoholism and heroin use?

[Xenotime]

148. What do you mean by "dating" and "in love"

Can you really have one or the other?

[Carnea]

150. Admit to yourself the truth.

You don't find her attractive.

This is nothing to be ashamed of and you are not alone.

How important is being attracted to a life partner tis the judgment you have to make. It isn't a deal breaker for most.

Many of us, if we are wise, don't end up with the pinnacle of our sexual attraction but rather someone we connect to in other ways.

As well there is the truth that the other baggage she may have such as depression or a lack of self esteem are in the long run much more of a deal breaker than weight.

Weight is usually a symptom not the underlying problem.

[FlyingSquirrel]

154. My suggestion is to fall completely in love with her.

Might take years to get used to her body, if you ever do. And you should let her build her own motivation to change - anything you say or do will not be taken the right way.

My wife of 4 years weighed over 300 lbs when we got married. She's had lap band surgery and has lost over 100 lbs, but it'll be a long road for her still and she'll probably never be completely satisfied with her appearance. You just have to keep focusing on the things that you do love about her to the point where you hardly notice the physical appearance of her body.

It's not easy but you should remember, if you end the relationship and find someone with a body you prefer, you won't necessarily be happier with the rest of her. Your number one goal should be finding someone who is your soulmate - emphasis on "soul".