I hate to rain on everyone's parade but about them stealing the election again

[Maraya1969]

What steps have we taken to make sure this doesn't happen again. I know that when I voted for the non-counted Florida I realized they were still using electronic voting machines.

[gristy]

1. I believe it will be impossible. Crooked electronic voting machines can't reverse a landslide.

[DCKit]

2. Exactly, it's got to look plausible.

McCain couldn't be farther from plausible if he were in OZ. Matter of fact, I think I saw a picture of him on Mars the other day, and I still don't believe.

[Jackpine Radical]

3. All they have to do is lie about the polls.

Never, ever tell yourself they can't manipulate reality.

[Firespirit]

8. The exit polls this primary have been really bad in some areas

The early exits, before the data comes in, have been badly off in several states. My :tinfoilhat: side says it's a psyops effort to get us ready to automatically discard exit polling as "horribly unreliable" as a rule. (I am not suggesting that widespread fraud took place in the primaries, but rather, that the polls were screwed with.)

[Stevepol]

20. Why do you think the polls were off rather than the machines?

The machines have been found to be wholly insecure and hackable at every stage of their deployment and use.

Exit polls still have the raw data and are based on scientific principles, always within a margin of error of course.

At present, I would trust the polls a hundred times more than the machines.

There's no reason to have the slightest confidence in any machine-run election in the US unless there are robust audits based on paper ballots.

[truedelphi]

23. Thanks for pointing out a logical thought abt the exit polls vs the

Final tally.

[Firespirit]

26. I mean the Democratic primary

I don't know why the GOP would bother deploying an electronic fraud operation, with the risks of whistleblowers and all, for our primary. They'd have an interest, yes, but I'm not seeing the rewards of it being worth the risk.

I do wonder if the early un"corrected" exit polls have been deliberately poorly conducted and skewed, prior to public release, as a psyops effort to undermine public confidence in exit polling before November. CW pre-2004 was that exit polls were deadly accurate. Now you can go to a number of places, including liberal blogs, and read dismissals of early exit polls for their "known inaccuracy." Erm since when? Oh yeah, since the introduction of unaudited voting. I wouldn't put it past the corporate cartel to have polls mangled on purpose for any election that wasn't screwed with, just to keep up the perception. It's the kind of reality-manipulating mind game that the RW loves to play.

[AndyTiedye]

4. The Repiglickin' Media Can Make It Look Plausible

[JerseygirlCT]

16. We do need to ensure that it is far from plausible

That means we can't win by a bit - we've got to overpower him completely.

Then it would be pretty darned hard to make a case for his win, and doing so would expose their system.

[Fireweed247]

7. The exit polls were the direct opposite of actual results(so they say)

It is possible they just invert the numbers so a landslide for Obama might come out a landslide for McCain.

[Stevepol]

21. The already happened in 2005 in OH.

A couple initiatives that had 60-65% support among the general populace in very good, and previously very reliable pre-vote polls were turned down by 60-65%.

The initiatives in question had to do with monitoring the voting system and the machines, so it's perhaps not surprising.

The other initiatives on the ballot were either approved or rejected as the pre-vote polls indicated they would be.

Bob Koehler writes about this in an editorial published at the time.

Link: http://commonwonders.com/archives/col321.htm

[tbyg52]

10. I refer you to the Max Cleland landslide

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0131-01.htm

[oedura]

28. I wouldn't count on a landslide...

...when there are people in the party who say they'll vote for McCain or not at all if Hillary isn't an option. :mad:

You have to wonder how far the fist has to be up some people's asses before they finally start to get pissed about it...

[KaryninMiami]

5. Depends on where you live - many states will still be using the same machines

made by ES&S and Diebold-- with no paper ballot backup. In Florida, we will have opti-scan machines which mean there is a paper ballot back up in case a recount is requested. The machines can still be rigged- but at least it's a step in the right direction.

We should be brainstorming now, on how to make sure nationally, we have a way to track how people have actually voted. People can, for example, take a photo of their voting machines. A landslide would be great- and is crucial because they can only rig and disenfranchise to a point. The potential this time for a groundswell of new voters and the excitement already generated by Obama and the anger towards Bush will all help-- but one never knows. I for one do not believe they will simply relinquish power -- not after all they've done to make sure that it never happens. Guess we'll see...

[berni_mccoy]

6. Many more Democratic controlled Governorships and Secretary of States.

[stillcool]

9. There are 13 states...

that have legislated paper ballots and automatic standard recounts after each election. There are 22 that have DRE's with no paper, and no way to conduct a recount. Some states have a hodge-podge of different voting systems from one county to another. Many of us use Optical Scan or electronic tabulators with a paper ballot, but conduct no audit to ensure the tabulator is accurate. I think it is up to each of us in the states we live in, to insist our state government ensure accuracy and security in our voting systems. You can see the different types of voting systems used in different states, and links to contact your own Secretary of State at the link...

http://www.verifiedvoting.org/verifier/

http://www.verifiedvotingfoundation.org/article.php?list=type&type=38

[susankh4]

11. Only a Landslide can assure that a Dem gets into the White House.

A close call will not suffice.

That is why Unity is the most important issue now.

[Liberal Dose]

12. I do not believe exit polls have ever been wrong. Exit polls are used to gauge whether or not an

election has been fixed, but all of a sudden they are wrong all the time? Baloney! Watching the talking heads scramble to make excuses why exit polls are wrong would be funny if our country was not at stake. After so many years, I cannot make myself believe that voters are lying to the pollsters. Doesn't matter how great our candidate is if this election fraud problem is not fixed.

[JerseygirlCT]

17. That's what's used overseas when people from around the globe

flock to oversee elections, right? (I think that's right - someone correct me if I'm wrong)

But suddenly they're no good here when they don't support the theft.

[Echo In Light]

13. There are some diligent people addressing this. However, many shrug off the idea as "conspiracy"

After all, Americans {thought} police themselves on this taboo subject. If widespread election fraud doesn't exist, they needn't concern themselves with it.

[KharmaTrain]

14. The Advantage Of A 50-State Primary

Democrats have to work hard in areas where voter supression laws have been put in place. But the big difference this year than in years past is that there are functioning Democratic parties all over the country. For years the national party (thanks Terry McAullife) neglected the state and local parties and much of the vote counting ended up being done by repugnicans. Democrats now control more and more county boards and state governments. In Ohio, for example, Ken Blackwell is a memory and it's Democrats doing the counting.

The bottom line is that the infrastructure is there, now is the time to start organizing plans to get voters registered and to make sure as many registered Democrats...those who showed up at the primaries...come back one more time in November.

One last thing to keep an eye on. For Gramps to come close to stealing, he needs to have numbers around 50% or better. He's lucky to top 45% and usually polls lower. Bob Barr could suck 5-10% of the vote from him in some key states as well.

This is an election the repugnicans have shown every reason they deserve to lose, the job for Democrats is now to close the deal and give people a reason to vote FOR them.

Cheers...

[lynnertic]

15. if california cheats it will be with paper

because our machines have been de-certified.

[leftchick]

18. "They've already stolen it," Greg Palast

:(

http://www.gregpalast.com/bbc-journalist-warns-against-voter-irregularities/

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

Sunday, May 18, 2008

The BBC journalist who uncovered possible voter fraud in the 2000 and 2004 U.S. presidential elections told a South Florida crowd Sunday those same forces that led to President Bush's victories will not "steal" this year's election.

"They've already stolen it," Greg Palast told a crowd at the Palm Beach Democratic Club on Sunday. "But, you can steal it back."

Speaking before a crowd of more than 400 at the Kravis Center, Palast outlined what he said were Republicans erasing black, homeless and military voters from voter registration rolls, possibly preventing millions from casting votes in razor-thin races.

Palast Has the DocsThe latest example came in 2004, he said, in a method known as vote caging.

There, voters' registrations were challenged after registered letters with "do not forward" instructions addressed to, for instance, black college students on summer vacation or naval officers on active duty overseas were returned as undeliverable.

"Go to Baghdad. Lose your vote. Mission Accomplished," Palast quipped.

[Junkdrawer]

19. Haven't you heard? Despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary...

Electronic Election Fraud has been fixed: All that needed to be done was to declare it a silly conspiracy theory.

"Aw, shucks. You lose again."

[nashville_brook]

22. the media will say we weren't ready for an AA president. that were silly to think he could win.

McCain will look like an idiot in every Town Hall and debate. He'll gaffe all over the place, declaring that Iraq is our territory now and forever (like Puerto Rico or Guam). He'll pick a space alien as a running mate... and he'll win with the help of massive disenfranchisement and election fraud, and the punditry of the MSM will fall over each other trying to explain how McCain, who can't draw flies to shit during the campaign, squeaked by in the General Election (losing the popular vote, of course). They'll surmise that Americans are yearning for a return to "traditional values" which will be code for 50s-style segregation.

Culture at large will follow suit; poodle skirts and leather jackets will fill the malls (instead of poodles, though, the casual wear will feature pit bulls).


Violence will be sporadic at first...

[truedelphi]

24. SeemsLikeADream posted this video w/ all the Repugs

Complaining that they can't vote for McCain
http://tinyurl.com/57oh2d


If McCain gets it, it will have to be stolen.

[Wizard777]

25. Uh, we've spent hundreds of billions on election reform in IRAQ.

Saddam finally lost an election.

[EFerrari]

27. One of the ways they'll try to steal it is by disappearing registrations.

We have to mount a "check your reg" campaign so that people DO check in plenty of time to vote on Election Day.

[Dover]

29. Very little has changed since 2000 to secure the vote. And if ALL the candidates

are hand-picked insiders, then the e-voting issue isn't as critical.
Like owning all the horses in the race.

I can't imagine that even a well intentioned candidate has much wiggle room even as president and must operate within certain acceptable parameters outlined by the elite class. God help them if they don't.