Is David Axelrod ..........

[Stinky The Clown]

..... as skilled and cunning a campaign strategist as Karl Rove? As James Carville? Is he able to anticipate and counter punch, even before the punches are thrown? I don't know much about him apart from what he has accomplished in bringing his guy as far as they've gotten.

Grab your knee and stop it from jerking. I am NOT suggesting Axelrod is slime, as is Rove, and I am not saying he is without morals or scruples, as is Rove. The comparison is about the final outcome ...... Rove's guy (and Carville's guy, for that matter) won twice even in the face of being a vastly inferior candidate. Yes, they cheated. But the fact is, his guy is in the White House and our guys aren't.

[leftofcool]

1. I doubt it. Smart yes, cunning, I don't think so

[Cant trust em]

2. I get your point and TOTALLY agree

If we win the GE, he will be the new poster boy for political genius. I revere this guy and would love to work for him. Totally brilliant.

[book_worm]

3. he seems an effective strategist

[napi21]

4. I don't know much about Axelrod, but he seems to be doing a great job

for Barack so far! I'm pleasantly surprised at the speed of their responses to McNuts idiotic remarks. That was my biggest fear about Obama...that he wouldn't be though enough in fighting off the RW nutjobs, but so far, they've done fine!

[tekisui]

5. He is a professional.

He is already weeks, maybe months, ahead of McDubya.

When Obama started saying "the past versus the future", they were already framing the fight against McDubya.

He has impressed. The campaign against Clinton was for Obama to empower people, call us We, and only counter-attacking with precision. It gave Obama the mantle of the high road.

Now, he is taking opening shots on McDubya regularly. Grampy is already reeling, constantly on the defensive. Did you notice how many times Grampy mentioned "Senator Obama" on Tuesday night. It seemed like 30 or 40.

[blm]

6. If Rove WAS a genius they wouldn't have HAD to depend on stealing it for Bush.

He's more genius with making the press corps repeat his lies and spin. But if he was a true political genius he would be able to sell their POLICIES for exactly what they are instead of lying about them.

Axelrod is not a consistent strategist, imo, as I recall he was one of the key strategists for 2002 cycle begging Dem candidates not to use Bush and GOPs handling of war and plans for Iraq an issue. He publicly criticized Kerry for criticizing Bush on war and told Dems to stick to domestic issues. After 2002, he started working for Edwards race and Edwards was the co-sponsor of IWR, so that made me realize why Axelrod didn't want war criticized.

This year is working for him because he learned from his mistakes in the past and obviously, the political climate favors speaking out against war.

[Stinky The Clown]

7. An historical and charismatic candidate doesn't hurt, either!

I gotta be honest, he (Axelrod) makes me nervous.

[blm]

8. I'm on that page. I worry he'll be the next Carville seen as a genius, getting more credit than

actually earned. After all, Bush1 wasn't anxious to win in 1992 and ran the worst campaign in history, knowing if he stayed in office he'd be impeached and fully exposed after the Dec 1992 release of the BCCI report.

Losing to Clinton who'd protect his secrecy (thanks Jackson Stephens) allowed BushInc to grow stronger in the 90s with no scrutiny on his global dealings.

But, the whole episode made instant stars out of everyone involved and they were treated like that for far too long by the Dem party who allowed too much wrong to go on (NAFTA, protecting Bush's illegal operations) for the sake of protecting them from personal attacks.

I was one of the worst, paying more attention to defending that entire crowd than to my main causes of not letting the outsanding matters of IranContra. Iraqgate and BCCI be passed over without the scrutiny needed.

I should have been in the streets about that.

[npincus]

9. I think Obama is running the campaign and the tome and ethics come from the top down

Rove is as scummy as the Chimp allowed him to be; birds of a feather.

[Truth2Tell]

10. The world has a LOT riding on Axelrod right now.

I think his management of the response to the Rev Wright flare-up was a sampler of what we are going to see. The race speech elevated the debate right out of the gutter. Magnificent work. I think he may have the mojo to overcome the slime that Gore and Kerry never figured out. It's all about the Jujitsu.

[blm]

11. Big difference that few seem to notice - after Katrina, Rather's lawsuit, McClellan's book and KOs

broken leash giving him rising numbers, the PRESS and their past complicity is more exposed and it is weighing down upon them for this election cycle.

You haven't noticed the difference in broadcast airtime this year compared to terror alert central that went on constantly with great flourish? Bill's book tour where Dem party was busy defending Bill's presidency and foibles yet again while Bill used his tour to give complete support for Bush and defend mightily his decisions on terrorism and Iraq war while Kerry was criticizing those decisions? Who do you think got the headlines from that for a month?

Then Reagan died. Then McGreevey got caught.

Obama has an entirely different news climate and he is fortunate to have it. But then, what would the media do if Obama was running in 2004 against Bush with his exact same resume?

And with a pisspoor and collapsed DNC? And with Bill's booktour defending Bush?

No comparison.

[Truth2Tell]

13. But we can't assume the media climate won't

get ugly again. As much as I can't stand Hillary, I have to admit that the media was not in her corner. They may take more of a liking to McLame. In which case, we need to be able to overcome the same old crap again. They did pound the Rev Wright dead horse into the ground, after all.

[politicasista]

14. That is why WE have to have Obama's back

And hit back hard this time by spreading the truth and refuting every single lie that comes out. Also, something different than the last two elections is YouTube. We can't scream "Why isn't he doing anything?" or question if he really is or isn't a Muslim (just an example). We have to have the facts in hand and spread them far and wide. The media isn't our friend period.

[blm]

16. Finally - brava - you got the message loud and clear. NOW I will say - SPOT ON!

.

[politicasista]

17. Thanks

Sometimes you have to step away and regain your perspective and focus on the positive rather than the negative. Something I have been focusing on. Plus, with all that happened, this primary season has been a real eye-opener. So much you're like: :wow:

[blm]

24. Liva and learn. Assert the truth at all times and don't let them back you into doubting

the truth you've come to understand. It is useless exercise - hit back with truth and make it THEIR duty to recognize their citizenship requires they further truth and fight for it, too.

[politicasista]

25. Thank you

Well done. :)

[blm]

15. But Obama got equal time for his broadcast speeches and rebuttals, didn't he?

Few Democrats even know that Kerry gave a one hour speech to Firefighters Convention AS THE NOMINEE on August19, 2004, where he attacked the swifts and challenged Bush to stop hiding behind the swifts and come out and debate their services during Vietnam publicly.

Sounds like that should be a huge story for at least a week, right, with a challenge to Bush to debate services? But, guess what - every single network news channel refused to broadcast that speech and few even gave a clip for the report which glossed over what Kerry said about the swifts and his challenge to Bush.

If that isn't blatant complicity, what is?

Think if Wright videos were aired nonstop for months and Obama's speech addressing Wright were never broadcast and barely reported. THAT would be equivalent to the media climate Kerry had.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. You're right about the media

I worry they'll turn on Obama. We all know they just love McCain. So far, however, they've been at least fair.

[blm]

23. Some of the old guard reporters were more fair minded in their early news years.

I think facing a black candidate has brought some of their long atrophied fairness muscles out for a stretch.

They're uncomfortable taking potshots at him the way they did Gore and Kerry just to sound cool to the WH crowd and their corporate paycheck signers.

The last few years since Katrina have definitely shaken some of them out of their Bushprotecting 9-11 stupor. Not the majority of them who still kowtow, but enough so that the odds for fairplay are far better than at any time in the last 10 years.

[blondeatlast]

20. Yes, and McCain's never experienced a challenging campaign.

He has barely had to break a sweat here in AZ; his campaigning consists largely of attending fundraisers for OTHER candidates.

That's a big difference with Obama who's risen up from the Democratic party in Chicago where every Dem office is a rough race just to get on the ballot.

Just witness the utter foolishhness of wanting to do public appearances with Obama and Obama's proactive response to the latest "damning" video rumor.

This appears to be a very different Democratic campaign this year--I'm quite hopeful.

[UTUSN]

12. "CARVILLE's guy ... was a vastly inferior candidate" and "cheated"? !1 n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

18. Sorry, the OP was badly phrased on that score

All that language refers to Rove his guy. Not to Carville and not to Clinton.

[applegrove]

21. Someone like Rove has to imagine how people feel cause he doens't

have normal emotions. Axilrod likely has a good dose of compassion and hopefully will make a better campaigner.

[Stinky The Clown]

22. The measure of a good campaigner is winning, not morals.

I'm not saying that's good or bad. It just is.

Good campaigners win.

Not good campaigners do not win.

[madinmaryland]

26. Bill Clinton was far inferior to George HW Bush and Bob Dole?

:wtf:

[blm]

27. He meant Bush was inferior to Gore and Kerry. Sentence structure was awkward.

.

[Stinky The Clown]

28. No

I addressed this upthread ... the OP was badly phrased in that regard.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3392426#3393155

[madinmaryland]

29. Ok. Got it.

Didn't see that response.

[Stinky The Clown]

30. Heh .... no problem .......

..... boneheaded posts deserve such replies. My sentence structure was tortured, to say the least.

[blm]

31. Pass some of what you're drinking this way.....heheh

Man, I've tortured a few sentences in my time.....usually when I post after I drink a glass of wine. Not often, thankfully. heh