I'm not crazy about the timing of this impeachment...

[cynatnite]

The repukes love it because they know the majority of Americans are against impeachment. They want it to be an election issue in order to help them. My concern is that this will hurt Obama and help McCain.

Frankly, I care more about getting Obama in the WH than I do about impeaching bush.

Flame away.

[PeaceNikki]

1. No flames here.

I agree.

[ColbertWatcher]

2. This will also...

...force people to show how strong their support is for Bush and his administration.

If McCain is as "anti-Bush" as he claims, then let his vote reflect that.

[RoyGBiv]

10. What vote?

McCain is a Senator. He won't have to vote or even utter a word about this unless it reaches the Senate, which it won't.

[ColbertWatcher]

26. Well, let's just see what happens. n/t

[tridim]

3. I've never seen an "Impeach Bush?" poll

Are you sure Americans are against impeachment?

[cynatnite]

7. The last one I saw was almost three years ago...

It ranged from under half to a little over half.

http://www.impeachpac.org/?q=node/6

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

75. Click.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3418357

[PeaceNikki]

76. That's not a scientific poll. In addition, there's no option for

those of us who think the secret spying, the deceptions leading to war and more, there is plenty to justify putting him on trial but it's not a productive and fruitful move at this juncture. Here's their own disclaimer:


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3704453/
Live Votes on msnbc.com

The differences between online surveys and scientific polls

One week in the middle of the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal, more than 200,000 people took part in an msnbc.com Live Vote that asked whether President Clinton should leave office. Seventy-three percent said yes. That same week, an NBC News-Wall Street Journal poll found that only 34 percent of about 2,000 people who were surveyed thought so.

More recently, in an msnbc.com survey conducted after a televised debate in the run-up to the New Hampshire primary, when asked “Who stood out from the pack?” 76 percent of the more than 55,000 people who responded chose Rep. Ron Paul of Texas.

This indicated strong support for Paul among msnbc.com readers.

[pocoloco]

4. Mrs Pelosi, I presume?

[bdamomma]

5. I respect and admire Dennis for doing this, cause there

are many Americans who are NOT familiar with all these crimes that have been committed in our name. It is on record.

[RichGirl]

50. I totally agree!

There is nothing more important for this country than getting out the truth regarding the criminal behavior of this administration...NOTHING. Having said that, I think it can only help us in the fall when republicans realize how thoroughly they have been conned. It will be almost impossible to believe that McCain didn't know about this. The picture of McCain and Bush smooching, will come in handy.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. Not to worry

Our Democratic 'patriots' will ignore this right along with the media.

Dennis will be cast as a crazy lefty loonie.

It is only a problem if they actually :::::gasp::::: do something apart from ignoring it.

[Wizard777]

8. That is historically inacurate. The party that impeaches wins.

Clintons impeachment over a stupid BJ didn't hurt the republicans one bit. How in the hell do you think Bush got elected anyway? Impeachment! that's how.

[cynatnite]

12. If the Dems were that confident they would have pushed for impeachment...

long before now and they would have done it loudly so the entire world would see.

[Moochy]

25. confidence or courage?

Both seem to be in short supply what with all the things taken off the table.

[Echo In Light]

78. Not so. Institutional collusion prevented it {one $ party} ,not "cowardice."

[PeaceNikki]

9. Russ Feingold spoke to this last summer. I stand strongly with him

http://feingold.senate.gov/opinion/07/20070616blog.htm

It is clear that there are many people in this country, including myself, who demand accountability from this Administration for the terrible mess it made in Iraq and its egregious and even illegal power grabs throughout its six-plus years in power. I believe that the President and Vice President may well have committed impeachable offenses. But with so many important issues facing this country and so much work to be done, I am concerned about the great deal of time multiple impeachment trials would take away from the Congress working on the problems of the country. The time it would take for the House to consider articles of impeachment, and for the Senate to conduct multiple trials, would make it very difficult, if not impossible, for Congress to do what it was elected to do – end the war and address some of the other terrible mistakes this Administration has made over the past six and a half years.

...

I fully respect the anger and frustration many Americans feel with this Administration. I share much of it. But on balance, I think Congress’s time is much better spent ending the war in Iraq, conducting the oversight that was absent for the last six years, and advancing progressive legislation.

UPDATE: I know that many of you disagree with my approach to this issue, but I thought it was important to make it clear where I’m coming from and explain why I am not calling for impeachment.

I certainly do believe in holding this Administration accountable and upholding the Constitution and the rule of law. That’s why last year I called for the President to be censured for his authorization of the illegal wiretapping program. I thought that was the appropriate course because it would have put the Senate on record in condemning the President’s wrongdoing. I still think that the censure resolution played an important role in focusing the public and the media’s attention on the issue. And I am working to make sure that Congress finally exercises its oversight responsibility by holding hearings and demanding information about the wiretapping program, the U.S. attorney firings and other abuses of power.

Many of you also wrote that if I recognize that the President and Vice President may have committed impeachable offenses, than it is our responsibility to impeach. As I pointed out, it is the role of the House to impeach, and it is the role of the Senate to try impeachments. But the Constitution left it up to the judgment of members of Congress whether or not moving forward with impeachment is best for the country.

[LTR]

16. Russ Feingold thinks with a clear head

And that's why he's so effective and so respected in his home state of Wisconsin.

He always has the right answers.

[PeaceNikki]

22. I agree. He's my perfect political match.

And my future husband. :)

When I get to meet him, I will ask him about the only decision that I question of his: where was he when the Congressional Black Caucus needed him when certifying the results of the 2000 election?

I need to know.

[John Q. Citizen]

21. And the war is how much closer to being over now than it was last summer?

Lets see, what major issues has the senate tackled in the last year? Oh yeah, they declared a branch of the Iranian military a "terrorist organization," so if bush attacks he has some cover.

They backed down on every single over site issue when the administration claimed "executive privilege."

You may stand with Russ on this, but standing around waiting is more like it.

[undeterred]

36. Well, the members of Congress are finally ready to impeach.

I agree that its not the Senate's responsibility. But I don't buy the "too busy" argument.

[LTR]

11. It's stupid

Could the timing be any worse?

At this point, they should just call for a censure, like Russ Feingold did. All this impeachment stuff does is create distractions and hurt Obama's chances.

The Clinton impeachment created a lot of problems for the Republicans, particularly for guys like Gingrich who went from being hot shit to kicked to the curb.

[Breeze54]

69. I guess you don't live up to your DU name then?

:shrug:

Not to worry. I'm Irish.

I'll take up the slack for you.

:eyes:

[LTR]

71. You gotta choose your fights wisely

It's all about strategy.

[slipslidingaway]

13. Majority of Americans favor Cheney impeachment... July 6, 2007

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2007/07/06/cheney/

"A new poll out from American Research Group today: A slight majority is in favor of impeachment proceedings against Vice President Cheney, and the country is just about evenly split on impeachment proceedings for President Bush.

Fifty-four percent of all adults surveyed -- and 50 percent of voters -- favor "the US House of Representatives beginning impeachment proceedings against" the vice president, according to the poll. Forty percent of all adults oppose, as do 44 percent of voters. When asked the same question about Bush, 45 percent of all adults surveyed, and 46 percent of voters, said they would favor proceedings. Forty-six percent and 44 percent, respectively, were opposed. The survey's margin of error was plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Over at Time's Swampland blog, Ana Marie Cox has already done some digging for some stats that seem quite relevant for comparison purposes: the polls about the impeachment of former President Bill Clinton. Her data shows, before impeachment, an average of 26 percent support for impeachment and removal of Clinton and 36 percent support for hearings..."

[undeterred]

14. It will be interesting to see how they (Obama and McCain) respond

when asked about it. No one can control this, but its the right thing to do. I'm sick of justice being pushed aside for expediency. I believe good things will flow from this act of moral courage.

[msongs]

15. morals and integrity are inconvenient things sometimes nt

[cynatnite]

18. So, if doing the right thing costs an election and gets McCain in the WH...

where he will continue bush policies including the warmongering...then you're okay with that?

[John Q. Citizen]

34. It sure won't be impeachment that puts McCain in. Read your history. Every single time

a party has attempted impeachment, they went on to win the following Presidential election.

Every single time.

Every Single Time!

I'm not sure why you believe this time would be different. It seems like you do though.

Do you also believe that Democrats should only concentrate on about 15 big states necessary to win a majority of electoral college votes, and completely ignore the rest? That was also popular for about 15 years, but it proved to be very short sighted and didn't pan out.

[PeaceNikki]

35. Hmm. How many times was Congress stacked against them?

Cuz it's certainly not stacked now in our favor.

[John Q. Citizen]

44. 1998, for one. The Dems didn't hold 2/3 in 1974 either. Neither impeachment was successful

in the sense that a conviction wasn't achieved in either case.

Yet the party pushing for impeachment took the White House in the following Presidential election.

[cynatnite]

43. History is no guarantee of anything...

I like guarantees and low risk. Impeachment raises the risk of losing, IMO. Getting Obama in the WH does way more in stopping the war and prevents attacking Iran. What the Dems do can reflect badly on Obama and I'm not convinced this will be looked at in a positive light by the public.

Bush and cheney deserve it. I'm not arguing that at all. Hell, I'm all for it.

But my nephew is on his third tour. If Obama does not get in the Wh then there is no guarantee my nephew's unit will come home and stay home.

I support Obama getting in the WH because I know lives will be saved in the short term. If Obama loses because of this the warmongering goes on and war with Iran is inevitable.

[John Q. Citizen]

49. There is no guarantee that if they don't try to impeach that Obama will win.

I support Obama getting in the White House and I also support impeachment. I think the two are mutually re-enforcing.

When people do the wrong thing in order to contrive to help themselves win, it looks bad, and it helps them lose instead of helping them win.

Ask Hillary about the gas tax holiday.

Ask her about voting for the IWR.

[Art_from_Ark]

17. Precedent says impeachment wouldn't hurt Obama

1868-- Andrew Johnson (Democrat) impeached in February, US Grant (R) is elected later that year

1974-- Articles of Impeachment prepared against Richard Nixon (R), who resigns in August 1974; Nixon's successor, Gerald Ford, loses the election of 1976 to Jimmy Carter (D)

1998-- Impeachment proceedings brought against Bill Clinton (D); R's take (literally) the White House in 2000.

[cynatnite]

20. There is a always a first time for everything...are you willing to risk it? n/t

[tridim]

24. Impeaching Bush and Cheney has nothing to do with Obama's run for the WH.

It must be done.

[cynatnite]

30. Impeachment would come from the dems and would stick to Obama...

That's how politics work. I won't support impeachment if I think it will cost Obama the WH. It's more important to stop the war and getting Obama in the WH is the best chance for it to happen.

Impeachment will not stop the war and if Obama loses the race because of this...then we're stuck with McCain who will continue the war and possibly widen it by going after Iran.

So, as it stands right now...I do not support impeachment. We'll save more lives and accomplish more faster by getting Obama in the WH.

[Wizard777]

37. If Obama renounces the impeachment effort. I'm DONE! I will not vote for him.

A word to the wise. The last place in the world Obama wants to be is between America and Bush when we go after him. He will get trampled underfoot. I love Obama. But not more than I hate Bush. I can easily say Fuck Obama under those circumstances.

[PeaceNikki]

39. He has

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-06-28-obama-impeachment_N.htm?csp=34

Obama: Impeachment is not acceptable

WASHINGTON (AP) — Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama laid out list of political shortcomings he sees in the Bush administration but said he opposes impeachment for either President George W. Bush or Vice President Dick Cheney.

Obama said he would not back such a move, although he has been distressed by the "loose ethical standards, the secrecy and incompetence" of a "variety of characters" in the administration.

[PeaceNikki]

54. **CRICKETS**

It's true. He doesn't support it. And I really hope you were kidding when you said you wouldn't vote for him. That's called cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Wizard777]

63. No it wouldn't be. That's Tacit approval of their crimes. That's too corrupt for me.

[Wizard777]

60. That's not current. 2007 A lot has changed since then.

[cynatnite]

45. If you ask Obama he won't support it...

I can't see him supporting it any more than Pelosi or Reid would. That's no reason to not support Obama. I'll take him over McCain any day of the week.

[PeaceNikki]

47. Here, too

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=7499

America needs to move forward again, and I don't believe that continuing this era of bitter partisanship is the best course of action. As I travel the country campaigning, I hear the call for a new direction and a change in our politics, a thirst for something more. I don't believe impeachment answers this call. I believe if we begin impeachment proceedings we will be engulfed in more of the politics that has made Washington dysfunctional. We would once again, rather than attending to the people's business, be engaged in a tit-for-tat, back-and-forth, non-stop circus.

Instead, I will continue to move forward with a positive agenda in the Senate and on the campaign trail. I hope you will stay involved and work for progress on the issues that matter most to you. Thank you again for writing.

[Wizard777]

65. Let me put it too you like this. Dennis just took Unite the party off his TO DO List.

Obama doesn't want to make himself an outsider to this unity. It's either Impeachment or back to I'm voting Mc Cain If hillary isn't president or vice President. FUCK THAT! The Impeachment express is taking off with or without Obama. I highly suggest he get on board.

[bdamomma]

53. these are thugs, treasonous thugs and they need to be held

for all the crimes that they have committed in our name, how many more articles of impeachment are going to be committed by this filthy regime by the time they leave, 35 Articles now how many more, how many more lies 935 now and going up. And in the faint distance is the drum beating for Iran, we got to get these SOB's out.

[Art_from_Ark]

40. Republican presidents since 1974

have been allowed to get away with their crimes scot-free, with the result that they get bolder and more brazen with each successor. If the current crimes are, once again, swept under the rug, the next Republican president will be even worse than bu$h.

[Xenotime]

19. IMPEACH HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Individualist]

23. Surprise, surprise

:eyes:

[Liberal In Texas]

27. If it prevents a war with Iran, it's worth any risk.

Unfortunately, impeachment hasn't got a chance.

[cynatnite]

32. It does not prevent a war nor does it stop it...

if Obama loses the GE because of it.

[tridim]

Be more positive!

This isn't a game, and it isn't political. This is about Impeaching a madman. Someone who happens to be in Europe right now selling his plan to invade Iran before November.

[Liberal In Texas]

74. If they had to seriously fight impeachment, it would grind the Iran war ambitions to a halt.

Remember, they'll want to start a war BEFORE the elections. Their theory being that war will favor a reluctance for regime change.

[Fire Walk With Me]

28. Gas is approaching an average of $5.00 in LA. This will spike food prices

among other things. Oil prices are in the direct control of BushCo and their OPEC friends. Remove Bush and begin dismantling BushCo, and we've got a good start toward fixing things.

Leave him to go free, and they'll just repeat what they did to Carter. Same way Enron did it to California. Exactly the same way.

A Democratic President is a good start but will not automatically dismantle the international corporate agenda and power which is causing the crisis. We must impeach and prosecute, and disable the laws and corporations working against democracy.

[tridim]

29. You're right. We need to start fixing America NOW.

We don't have time to fuck around. Put a moderate/friendly Repuke in the WH until November and get to work fixing this mess.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. WILL? How about HAS

I paid today 120 for weekly grocery bill, and I go to the PX for most of it!

[Fire Walk With Me]

41. You're right- I should have said "even further".

I think that they're doing it on purpose, to destroy the economy so that they can take even further control than they already have. They are disaster capitalists, that is proven. They like to see us suffer, Katrina proves that. What they destroy or allow to be destroyed, they can then remold in their own image and control.

Have you read "The Tipping Point"?

This is exactly the same thing as Enron did to California, but on a national scale. Manipulate the energy source to cause problems, which they'll likely swiftboat Obama with, just like they did to Gray Davis.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. On my list, still slugging through Disaster Capitalism

[LTR]

66. Remove Bush and Cheney becomes our president

Do you really want to go there?

[Moochy]

67. he has half of the approval rating of bush

:)

[Lint Head]

It's never too late. The criminal lying traitor occupying the

Peoples White House needs to be called out NOW! :dem:

[Mind_your_head]

31. I'm not politically savvy.....so,I'm not sure if it's better to go after this cabal now or later....

there's soooooooo many tricks and turns that seasoned politicians play, I'm not sure what to believe anymore of what's the "best way".

But I DO SURELY KNOW, that I want */Cheney/et al to be held accountable. I want the legitimate charges against them to 'stick'. I want them forever to be held up as a "bad example" and forever thought of as a "terrible time" in America's history.

The PEOPLE of America are basically 'good' and we have to show that we reject/have rejected/will reject in the future this type of 'leadership'.

[Annces]

38. Go drink some soda for a while, and let the grown ups have the board

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. He is introducing the bill, that does not mean it will go anywhere

once it reaches the Judiciary, and if Mrs Pelosi has her way, it will quietly die in Committee

No, I would not call this a stunt. Dennis does not do anything like this lightly... but you can bet your sweet ass it will be called one

The DEMS, yes, you read right, the DEMS will let it die, just as they have the Chenney Articles quietly languish

[Ghost in the Machine]

46. Yeah, let's just let him waltz out and issue blanket pardons on his way out the door

Impeachment takes away pardon powers.

BTW, do you have a link to show that the majority of Americans are against impeachment?

[stillcool]

51. Every single crime...

and every single scandal needs to be hammered home again, and again, and again.

[Mind_your_head]

52. YES IT DOES! Needs to hammered home AGAIN, and AGAIN, and AGAIN

and AGAIN!!!

Thank you Dennis! :applause: :applause: :applause:

[galledgoblin]

55. I agree that it comes too late

but hopefully this checks the White House from attacking Iran and starts rolling the ball on post-office criminal proceedings.

[Moochy]

56. If you disagree with this OP

go kick this one: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3416480

[PeaceNikki]

57. I agree with this OP, so I'm gonna kick it.

[Moochy]

59. ..

Accountability is so overrated.

[PeaceNikki]

62. It's not that black and white, you know.

Just because I don't think impeachment is a wise route at this juncture doesn't mean I wouldn't love accountability. But there's this little thing called reality about the votes in the House and the representation in the Senate that we'd need to make it work.

[Moochy]

64. I understand that reality

And I reject it. :) seriously though this is more about just making sure people hear DK's words on the floor tonight here at DU.

[LTR]

68. I will too

Impeachment mostly makes some of us feel better. In the long term, I think it just creates a murkier atmosphere of divisive politics. Let's say Obama gets elected. Will the GOP try to impeach him if they get the power back?

Bush and Cheney are criminals. I'll agree with that. But we've got more pressing issues than to seek revenge, if only for personal satisfaction. I'd rather see Obama get in the White House than waste time trying to throw Bush out of the last few months of his term. Let history be the judge, and let his legacy go down the toilet where it belongs. Karma is a powerful thing.

[PeaceNikki]

73. I am sick and tired of the "you're for impeachment or you support war crimes"

mentality. Bullshit. It reeks of the "you're with us or against us" GOP nonsense. There are important tasks at hand that our legislators need to focus on.

[tekisui]

58. IMPEACH NOW!!! War Criminals being given a pass for political

gain, is as bad as impeaching for political gain.

IMPEACH THE WAR CRIMINALS!!!
GO,DENNIS!!!!

[Imagevision]

61. If Bush & Cheney and friends lied us into a phony war? how can anyone just let slide...?

[goclark]

70. I thought that I just read someplace

the more than 50 % want impeachment...

[krispos42]

72. Let the Repubs publically defends Bush

And let the Dems beat them over the head all over TV with the C-SPAN footage. And every commercial with "Republicans: Party Above Nation"

[LWolf]

77. I care more about the work that Congress does

than I do about elections. I don't believe that work should stop during campaigns, and I don't believe the business of Congress should be scheduled between elections.

Elections are meaningless if those elected are exempt from doing their jobs because they might distract attention from another election.