Reality Check: Impeachment is not going to happen.

[BurtWorm]

That's one reason why Kucinich's reading of those articles last night is making no news. Talking impeachment is preaching to the choir. It's a feel-good motion that won't go anywhere. It's a dead end story. Sad but true. It has very limited support even among Democrats. We all know this very well by now. It's too. fucking. late. It's not going to happen. History is going to have to do the work this Congress was too weak and cowardly to do.

Of course a little thing like irrelevancy doesn't usually stop the talking heads from babbling for hours and hours.

[ClassWarrior]

1. So you'd allow Presidents to have total immunity during their final year?

That's what "it's too late" means.

NGU.

[BurtWorm]

6. I have no control over it. What I feel about Bush and immunity is beside the point.

I'm talking about what is real, not what I'd like to be real. It's just obvious that this Congress at this stage is not going to waste an ounce of time or energy impeaching Bush. They wasted every opportunity in the past. They were never interested in it. They will not suddenly get interested in it now.

[L. Coyote]

8. You are the media, and you exercised your control ike a freeper, frankly!!

By lying about the amount of news from sentence one, for example!!

Either the freepers are not he only ones practicing deception, or ....!!

[BurtWorm]

11. Ha ha!

I'd like to exercise my awesome control over you and have you take back that Freeper crack. ;-)

[ClassWarrior]

15. "I have no control?"

Please don't let the RW convince you that we're powerless. That's all they have.

NGU.

[BurtWorm]

22. I will even say that I don't think impeachment is all that worthy a goal at this point.

It is not the panacea a lot of my fellow DUers seem to think it is. (And if they truly believe in the curative power of impeachment, they are setting themselves up for a major blow, because it will not happen.)

If Bush is the disease, I am putting my stock in believing Obama is the cure.

[dysfunctional press]

38. so- YOU'RE going to see to it that he's impeached? seeing as you apparently have the power...

:shrug:

[bryant69]

20. Well I certainly would - but then I'm a secret Freeper

So you have to take what I say with a grain of salt.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[goodhue]

2. Yes, as a member of the choir, exposing the truth makes me feel good

Honestly, I don't care if the 35 articles are voted on in house, and sent to senate. It is the hearings and debate itself that is very badly needed. Obviously, the media doesn't want to report the truth laid out in the 35 articles. But we must try to force them to, despite their dismissals of irrelevancy.

[BurtWorm]

9. At best, a small cadre will talk about it during the wee hours, as Dennis did last night.

Maybe that will be enough to satisfy the shrinking audience still hoping this Congress will give impeahcment its due.

[goodhue]

16. At best, Keith Olberman and John Stewart will detail the 35 articles to millions

We can make it happen. They are primed to report the substance of the charges given the Scott McClellan book and the NYT expose of DOD propaganda. Many of the articles relate directly to what the media no longer can deny, although most would love to ignore. Despite beltway conventional wisdom, an airing of the substance of the articles would be of great help to the democratic party in the general election.
Impeachment itself is not the point.

[NashVegas]

3. That's Why He Gets to Introduce It

Everyone who watches politics from an observational standpoint understands that Kucinich has just about as much of a chance of getting impeachment through the House as he does becoming a presidential nominee.

Allowing an ineffective congressman to be the one who "owns" this type of legislation not only insures it won't be taken seriously, but it also allows that same ineffective congressman to remain the left's champion.

[L. Coyote]

13. HELLO! Kucinich was a presidential candidate, and is highly regarded

or his principled stance on many issues, including opposition to the war.

[Freddie Stubbs]

32. That high regard didn't translate to too many votes for his presidential 'campaign'

Iowa Caucuses: 0%

NH Primary: 1%

Nevada 0%

He dropped out after that.

[NashVegas]

34. And Ineffective

At getting the left's agenda through.

[BridgeTheGap]

4. Keep the heat on them any way...they deserve this and much, much more! n.t

[lligrd]

5. Especially If We Keep Repeating That It Won't

instead of putting pressure on Congress to do it.

[L. Coyote]

7. The story was in 2,000 news outlets before Kucinich was half way thru!!

And, as more facts come to light daily, you may be proven very wrong!!!

[BurtWorm]

12. Wanna make a bet?

I will bet Bush never gets impeached. Wanna bet against me? Want to name the terms?

[judy]

10. Impeachment is crucial

even if it doesn't happen. What matters, is that someone, somewhere, mentions in a legal setting that what they have been doing are crimes, and that they should be impeached.
It is crucial to restoring the moral fiber of this country, that has gone so far down the path of considering high crimes as nothing but politics as usual.
I dare not hope that DK's introduction will lead to hearings,but if it does, that will be a huge step in the right direction.

[BurtWorm]

14. People have been saying it all along.

We all know Bush is guilty of everything DK says he's guilty of. A lot of good it's going to do us.

[MuseRider]

18. I agree that nothing will be done

they have wasted every opportunity but I still think this was important historically. When this country looks back on these years with horror over how obtuse and afraid we were this document will be there. They will think ill of us but at least it will be known that even though we were a cowardly and clueless bunch as a whole, this did not happen without notice. Maybe, and I say this knowing full well that it will not happen, just maybe we can learn from our history.

[judy]

24. "We all"?

Who are we? DU? Very few people in the US know. How could they know? Why would they ever think that Bush's "mistakes" are impeachable crimes of the highest order?
This enters the crimes into the official record.
It is crucial.
You never know what they are going to come up with before they leave office.
These articles of impeachment are a public record of the fact that in view of the Constitution, Bush and Cheney are impeachable.
Don't forget Bill Clinton was impeached for a private sexual indiscretion. It is therefore in my view crucial to show that murdering thousands for no reason is also impeachable.

[BurtWorm]

26. The GOP succeeded in cheapening impeachment for a very long time to come.

Or of exposing it as the cheap political trick it finally is. You only impeach if you have the political power to do it, and then you can impeach anyone for any stupid reason. Impeachment is overrated.

[magellan]

40. They failed to convict Clinton

...yet still won enough votes to steal the WH in 2000, and even managed to maintain a slim majority in Congress.

Cheap political trick? Is there another remedy to high crimes and misdemeanors committed by the Executive branch other than impeachment? Besides ignoring it, I mean.

edited subject

[BurtWorm]

45. Exactly.

What better evidence do you want of a cheap political trick than impeachment 1998?

Impeachment 2008 is not going to happen. Does that mean the Bushists will get off scot-free?

[magellan]

51. The fact is they took the WH afterwards

And held onto their majority in Congress.

What the Repubs did was a cheap political trick, I don't disagree.

But to base future decisions about impeachment on that stunt is letting the Repubs win again.

And, if the Dems believe that impeachment is tainted, to then turn around and argue they don't want to risk losing the WH and Congress by impeaching -- when the exact opposite happened to the Repubs -- flies in the face of the alleged logic they're trying to make us accept they're using.

Impeachment isn't going to happen. And yes, that means BushCo will get off scot-free. And the neocons will be back for another go and even more brazen next time because once again we failed to take care of them.

Mark my words.

[BurtWorm]

52. The numbers are not right now for impeachment, let alone conviction.

That's the simple, sad, unassailable fact. The timing is not right. It's too late. The Dems should have done all this in 2006 or 2007. They didn't because they couldn't. Nothing changes that math now.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

17. Right, impeachment won't happen

but it's good to see DK "dope-slap" GWB.

It is a feel-good motion that actually makes me feel good.

:hi:

But, as you say, nothing will come of it. And if by some miracle, GWB were removed, then we'd have Prez Cheney. Evil, and smart.

[BurtWorm]

19. I don't mind hearing articles of impeachment read on CSPAN.

That is my kind of feel-good TV.

:hi:

I just don't see any signs that anything is going to come of it beyond my feeling good.

[Richardo]

21. Thanks for a word of sanity, Burt

:patriot:

[BurtWorm]

23. Someone had to do it.

:patriot:

[mmonk]

25. That is true.

I gave up hope of the return to representative government and constitutional rule after the 06 elections. Elections are now for arbitrary rule, nothing more.

[GAtomboy]

27. Impeachment isn't the answer

You're absolutely right... the answer is locking Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsefeld, Rice, Libby, and the whole lot of them away for the rest of their miserable lives. How about some good old fashioned NON torture?

[mmonk]

30. The people our representatives now serve

do not support that. They want the same bush was trying to achieve, just not as obvious.

[Drum]

28. So you hold Reality's checkbook? nt

[BurtWorm]

29. "We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." -Mark Twain

Nice epigram. Perfect for the situation. :applause:

[Sinistrous]

31. That impeachment will not happen is probably and unfortunately true.

However, that fact does nothing to lessen the tragedy of the Congress's craven abrogation if its responsibility to restore the rule of law in the United States.

Absent impeachment, we have no defense against another president assuming the same powers as has bush, and continuing our slide into totalitarianism.

Our only hope, at this juncture, is for prosecution in the criminal courts after the sordid cabal is purged from office. And I fear the odds of that happening are the same as impeachment.

[BurtWorm]

33. If Bush is the disease, Obama must be the cure.

Impeachment will not cure Bushism.

[Zorra]

35. Well, a substantial number, perhaps a majority, of the American People hope you are wrong. n/t

[dysfunctional press]

39. a substantial number also believe in a god.

and neither makes it so.

[Zorra]

43. Probably true, but neither one of us can prove that..

Also, I never implied that it could.

[spanone]

36. you should have called dennis and saved him all that time on teevee

[mzmolly]

37. I agree BW.

I appreciate Dennis's efforts, but I also understand that we will likely "punish" Bush somehow after he leaves office.

[BurtWorm]

53. Hi, mzmolly!

:hi:

We also have to brace for the unpleasant possibility that Bush will never be forced to face the evil he unleashed. He may never have to pay for it. Sometimes the universe can permit injustice, for some totally random reason, if it can be called "reason."

But humans who care about justice can certainly seek it. It doesn't have to be in the form of impeachment. It can be in the form of history, or criminal prosecution, or civil suit. There are any number of ways justice can be sought and even found.

[mzmolly]

55. Once again

good point.

While I certainly hope that there is justice in some form, I must accept that it may not happen to our collective satisfaction *sigh*

Then again, we could view a President Obama as a form of justice? I can't think of another time in history where a Black Senator from Chicago, with little so called "experience" would have been a viable consideration for the Presidency? I feel that the stench of the Bush administration has perhaps primed us for this moment in history? We are in need of a breath of fresh air!

On a lighter note, hey backatcha BW! :hi:

[BurtWorm]

56. My hope is precisely that Obama is the cure to the Bush disease.

:bounce:

[Fire Walk With Me]

41. BurtWorm, please read my short OP:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3416112

[BurtWorm]

46. If what you're saying is right, impeachment won't stop them.

Only revolution would stop them.

[Fire Walk With Me]

47. Impeachment and prosecution will stop them, but we'll have to be quick and thorough.

Why aren't we removing what are painfully obviously a cancer against the nation, against freedom? Why are we accepting this course of domination?

[BurtWorm]

50. Why do we accept any cancer against the nation and freedom?

In some ways Bushism is just the tip of an iceberg that was formed long ago. It happens to be less subtle than other forms of this same cancer, which is "domination," as you say, by the ruling class over the ruled class. The Bushists remind us how very fine the line is between constitutional rule and dictatorship, between rulers playing by the rules and doing whatever they feel like doing. It's a matter of how vigilant the powerful are to preserve the rule of the constitution, or how powerful the vigilant are.

[wtmusic]

42. An Obama presidency wasn't going to happen, either.

Roughly one year ago the notion, for many, of Barack Obama becoming president was just as farfetched.

BO is beating the odds by staying positive, staying on message, and being right.

[EFerrari]

44. Well said.

:thumbsup:

[Disturbed]

48. The odds are slim but I am glad that Kucinich laid out the

Crimes of the Busholini Regime for the Congressional Record. He did his job. Maybe Indictments can be forthcoming after the Busholini Criminal Regime vacates our White House.

[BurtWorm]

49. It should have already happened.

It won't happen, unfortunately. The timing is all wrong.

The best we can hope for from government now is a concentrated effort to undo all of the damage Bushism wreaked, prosecution of Bushists who committed crimes, and the honest judgment of history about what a disaster Bushism was for the country and the world.

The time for impeachment has long passed. It's not going to happen.

[madmusic]

54. What's wrong with feeling good?

Keeps the news of the Rethug memes anyway.