How much do the moral values, values voter conservative types REALLY know the Bible?

[ck4829]

Really?

First clue is that they are passing around emails saying that the Anti-Christ will be of Muslim descent in an attack on Obama. Interesting, the Bibles I have say nowhere that the Anti-Christ will be of Muslim descent.

Secondly, how many of the 10 Commandments do they really know?
Aside from the fact that some seem like the Representative who wants them posted up EVERYWHERE, but can't name even 5, do they even live up to the 10 Commandments?
Lying
Stealing
Killing
It seems all good according to them.

Third, when a liberal says something that's in the Bible. Doesn't a conservative almost always say in response "Oh look, an atheist liberal is trying to interpret what the Bible says!111 You have no idea what it means!11!1"
I have one word for that...
PROJECTION

What exactly is the bedrock for the values voters if isn't the Bible?

Could it be... SATAN?

[treestar]

1. They usually know zero about how Christ said to give all you have

to the poor, and not to brag about being religious.

[thecrow]

29. They think that is covered by the 10% "tithe" to their church

But Christ outlined a path of righteousness that very few of us could take, in an effort to show us the way to true righteousness that was selfless giving in loving humility.

Edit: I can't spell

[thecrow]

30. They think that is covered by the 10% "tithe" to their church

Edit: Weird! My first double post! It's a miracle!

[L0oniX]

2. The vast majority of them don't even read the bible.

[undeterred]

3. They know a certain interpretation of the Bible

which is based on pre-determined values of their subculture.

[nxylas]

9. They have their little highlighter pens...

...that they use to select maybe half a dozen verses that they particularly like, and they pretty much ignore the rest of the Bible (I used to be a fundy in my teens, so I know these things).

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

13. To be fair

people of all stripes are guilty of taking only what they want from the Bible... Its called making your own God and its the most basic and sever of all human sin..

In the case of NeoCons that would ignore the social justice practiced by Christ and many in the early church, its excusing abhorrent behavior because somebody uses the right catch phrases, its how * suckered so many into thinking he was the 'Christian' candidate in 2000...

But I have seen here, o so many times, people quote 'judge not lest ye be judged' completely ignoring context, most can not even (off the top of their heads) tell you when the rest of that verse says.

[yardwork]

31. Since the Bible was written and rewritten and edited and rewritten again by humans

through the centuries - humans with their own opinions and agendas - it's hard to imagine taking anything in the Bible as the pure "Word of God."

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

34. It has not been rewritten, the manuscripts of the bible are more sound than

any other major historical document... (of antiquity)

[yardwork]

35. LOL!

Um, ok. It was written in Standard Revised English just exactly the way it reads today and handed by God to Moses, or something. There are no Apocryphal Books that were left out by King James's committee, and it's never been edited or revised in any way. Mm-hm.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

36. Translated does not equal rewritten...

Dont be so obtuse, it does not suit you...

Whenever I undertake a study you can be darn sure that the greek of the NT and Hebrew of the old are close at hand...

[yardwork]

37. Read up on how the King James edition was developed.

It will open your eyes.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

38. I know quite a bit about that, but thanks for dropping the translate=rewritten meme

Books left out of the cannon were left out for one of several non political reasons, including:

1) not cited by Christ or the first generation Apostles
2) not referenced as Christ or the first generation Apostles as scripture
3) writer (NT) Not a witness to Christ

What made it in from the old testament?

"the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms ... the scriptures" (Luke 24:44–45)

This would have been understood by those of their day as the Septuagint

[yardwork]

39. I completely disagree, but there's no point in arguing.

One of the reasons I left the church was that it was clear that very little of the church's behavior or policies spring from Jesus's words. While I believe that there are sincere people attempting to see the word of God in the Bible, I believe it is a greatly flawed text that has always been heavily influenced by politics and social repression, particularly the repression of women, gay people, and anyone outside the mainstream. Ironically, Jesus said that we should not listen to the mainstream. That's why they killed him.

I don't want to argue. I have my beliefs and you have yours. I respect your right to believe as you wish. When people start to dictate laws on the basis of their interpretation of any religious text, though, I'll fight em tooth and nail.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

41. You keep saying 'the church'

You do know there are different churches right? Ill be the first to say that some ignore the words of Christ over feel good mush that packs buts in the seats..

"I believe it is a greatly flawed text that has always been heavily influenced by politics"

As I pointed out there is no shortage of near original manuscripts and original references to the document to verify its accuracy to the original. If man takes that and twist it well that stinks but me nit picking what is there for my own satisfaction does *not* take away from the whole of the book just my understanding of it.. You can say that the way many churches approaches it is flawed and with that I would find some common ground with you but their abuse does not negate the scriptures..

"Jesus said that we should not listen to the mainstream. That's why they killed him."

I agree churches should not be listening to the mainstream of society..

"When people start to dictate laws on the basis of their interpretation of any religious text, though, I'll fight em tooth and nail."

And if you ever find an instance of me doing that let me know..

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

4. Well...

They do know sophistry.

[gatorboy]

5. Eh. Don't we get a new "Anti-Christ" every decade?

[Mz Pip]

6. Louis Black did a great rant

on Christians interpreting the Bible. He thought it was pretty presumptuous of them to be such experts on interpreting the Old Testament. The Old Testament is the Jewish portion of the Bible. Christians should stick to their own part of the Bible, the New Testament. They never ask the Jews to interpret the New Testament so why should they be interpreting the Old Testament?

As funny as the rant was, I thought he made a pretty good point.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

16. Thats like saying Americans should ignore

the enlightenment thinkers of Europe from which the philosophies underpinning our Declairation of independence sprang..

[Mz Pip]

19. I don't think Americans

have taken those words and twisted them so out of context that they are hardly recognizable. I don't think Americans use those words to justify bigotry and hatred.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

22. I dont know what are we doing right now?

at war with Iraq ( for the sake of freedom )
Polluting the planet ( in the name of personal freedom )
treating the poor terribly ( in the name of representative government )
not educating out kids ( in the name of federalism )
not providing health care ( in the name of individual choice )

--

Id say weve done a fairly good job distorting, twisting, and utterly crapping on the words of enlightenment thinkers...

[Mz Pip]

25. Good point n/t

[blondeatlast]

7. Their Bibles are seconds--they leave out virtually all of Matthew.

Y'know--all that unpleasant stuff about worshipping in private, the moneylenders and hypocrites.

Yep, that Matthew was a party pooper-edit him out.

[Ishoutandscream2]

8. The ones I know all seem to understand the negative vibes it gives

In otherwords, not the real teachings of Christ. They are fire and brimstone types. If I say something "sacrilegious," they all exclaim, "You better watch out, James." They view a very punitive and pissed off God that hates gays and people who are "un-American." Yeah, God DOES TRULY BLESS AMERICA. And we have every right to use up all of his resources at the expense of the rest of the world.

Oh, and God is a Republican. Can't forget that one.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

18. Jesus also preached fire and brimstone as well

Jesus also preached fire and Brimstone... Not to say that there are not Christians who ignore love, grace, and see themselves as needing to give and receive both but dont try to box Jesus in a space too small to contain him..

--
Mark 9:
43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

50 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his saltness, wherewith will ye season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace one with another.

[MikeNearMcChord]

10. They ought to read the Book Of Amos

in the Old Testament, he rails against the shabby treatment of the poor by the rich.

[jakem]

12. mmm... book of famous Amos....

[fasttense]

11. They never read the bible and interpret it for themselves.

They simply listen to some preacher and go along with that preacher's interpretation of the bible. That is the only way they can be republicans and bush lovers. Because if they really read what Jesus said they would have to stop supporting national murder in the form of war and the death penalty.

Love thy neighbor and forgive thy enemies strongly implies you should not kill them.

[dawgman]

14. actually the bible never mentions the anti-christ.

It is a christo-fascist creation.

[MedleyMisty]

15. I am reading this website at the moment and finding it helpful

http://www.escapefromwatchtower.com/stages.html

They're at stage one and/or stage two.

And I think that as a whole we're progressing more towards the third and fourth stages and so there's lots of people at the higher stages around them to threaten them.

The last third of the essay is the best, with descriptions of interactions between the stages. I find this paragraph especially enlightening.

"If you are not ahead, it is unlikely that you will be able to lead then anywhere, but if you are two steps ahead, it is likely that you will lose them. If people are one step ahead of us, we usually admire them. If they are two steps ahead of us, we usually think they are evil. That's why Socrates and Jesus were killed; they were thought to be evil.

Similarly, it is very difficult to reach down two or more steps."

So basically that's saying that it would be the job of the rational atheists to teach the fundies. LOL, we're screwn.

Plus that sort of takes out the whole "admiring those one step ahead of us" and stuff, because from what I see fundies think that atheists are evil.

I think he missed a stage, perhaps? The "I'm not a fundie but I am very conforming and don't think much so I just say the words that everyone else says." stage? Because I can see someone like that moving up into stage three if they started thinking, but not your general hardcore fundie.

[Beausoleil]

17. "the Anti-Christ will be of Muslim descent "

The reason that you won't see that sentiment in the Bible is that the Bible was pretty much set in it's present form for a couple of centuries before Muhammed. There weren't any Muslims when the Bible was written. Any idea about the "anti-christ" being Muslim was pulled out of thin air, or Nostradamus (same thing).

[Bluenorthwest]

20. They don't know it at all

And they tend to destest what is actually written. There are verses in Acts that these pretenders react very badly to. I quote it and they think it is Karl Marx.
Here on DU there are often people demanding respect for their religion, which amuses me so. They are taught that being disrespected or even persecuted for faith is a thing to celebrate. They do not celebrate they get defensive as can be. They are taught to pray and practice only in private, and specifically told that public prayer is ignored by God, and that public proclaimations of one's own faith are exclusively for their personal agendas and are forbidden.
In short if they practiced the religion they claim to love so much, there would never be a discussion about it at all. I'll go so far as to say that from the context of the New Testament, those who proclaim and demand attention and pray in public are in fact blasphemers of the first order. Blasphemy is attempting to use that which is divine for one's won goals and agendas. That is what their Scripture says. They just disagree.

[bonito]

21. Psychopaths aren't conservative, their insane imo.

[Iggo]

23. I'm small "a" atheist...

...and sometimes it seems to me that I'm still a better Christian than most Christians I know.

I live my life a certain way, and minus all the sky-god worship, it lines up decently well with how that Jesus guy is said to have instructed us on how to treat each other as human beings.

I'm no bible expert. I've never read it. I've just picked up snippets of stuff here and there over the past 46 years.

But as far as the Christians I know, they'd better hope I'm right that there's no Hell.

[LucyParsons]

42. I'm a militant atheist, and I feel that way, too ........nt

[DailyGrind51]

24. James 5: 1 - 6

I quoted the following passage from the New Testament on the Monster.com "Current Events" board over a year ago and was accused by a self-proclaimed "born again" of having made it up.

James 5: 1-6
Warning to Rich Oppressors
1Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. 2Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. 6You have condemned and murdered innocent men, who were not opposing you.

[AuntPatsy]

26. Oh some of them might know it well, but the real question is do they really adhere

to the message of giving or adhere more to the message of holy wars to justify their pathetic existence of wanting to hate that which they do not understand....

First, I think the bible is nothing more than made up, folk lure, historical personal perspective and a wish to ensure the populace stays easy to control but sadly far too many take some of it literally while ignoring the hypocrisy of the different messages that shine from page to page...


I want to have hope, faith and a belief in something other than myself but I will not allow something written by man to be the basis of my want of belief and faith nor should anyone else, its why this world is so nutty, they can't make up their mind what they believe in or why...

[leftofthedial]

27. zip

unless it's taken out of context and used in a theofascist talking point.

[LanternWaste]

28. Heck... most people I know (regardless of faith)

Heck... most people I know (regardless of religion-- or lack of) have little more than passing knowledge of The Bible, and simply argue from there...

[TrogL]

32. Backwards and forwards

Unfortunately, they use this knowledge to cherry-pick the chapter and verse (which they rattle off) they need to apply (out of context) to the particular point they're trying to make.

If you attempt to call them on this, they'll just change the topic by popping out another quote.

[klyon]

33. if this is a country founded on religious values then

why aren't all 10 commandments law?

[yella_dawg]

40. My brother believes in the absolute authority of the Bible as written.

He's dyslexic and has a third grade reading level. His life is rigidly controlled by a book he can't read.

[mitchum]

43. It's just fairy tales for herdsmen anyway