IMHO Lieberman Did His Part to Sink Gore's Campaign ...

[Blackhatjack]

When Gore turned down so many other qualified candidates for the VP running mate slot and chose Lieberman, that was a tragic mistake.

When the Obama Administration takes office, Lieberman will join the Republican Caucus. It is a shame we cannot get rid of Lieberman along with Bush.

[Johonny]

1. Lieberman-Cheney debate

Biggest Democratic debate let down of past 20 years. Joe couldn't find much to disagree with against one of the most divisive Republicans in politics. Pretty much cemented the idea that Bush or Gore would be pretty much the same type of president...

[speedoo]

2. Absolutely right.

I remember watching. I was stunned.

[Tesha]

4. When Lieberman laughed at Cheney's joke about having made his money himself...

I knew our goose was cooked.

A *REAL* Democrat would have reminded Cheney that
Haliburton sucked at the public teat and Cheney's
money came mostly from the taxpayers.

Tesha

[Crunchy Frog]

15. Lieberman-Cheney debate helped push me into the Nader camp.

[Lasher]

3. I remember during the Florida recount controversy...

Lieberman took it on himself to say publicly that all the military absentee ballots should be counted, even the ones that had no postmark, as required by law. Some of those ballots were mailed in late, after it was seen how close the election actually was.

[Better Believe It]

5. Blame Joseph Leiberman, Not Nader!

Leiberman sunk Gore's attempt to stop the election theft in Florida, not Nader. And he did a lot more to weaken and damage Gore's election campaign. Watch the movie Recount!

[Lasher]

8. That doesn't give Nader or his supporters a pass.

Lieberman's treachery in this case was one thing that worked against Gore. But it wasn't the only thing.

[Better Believe It]

9. Gee .... I Didn't Know Nader Stole The Election. Thought Bush Did That!

My mistake.

So what do you think ought to be done with the millions of people who voted for Nader?

And how about the 250,000 registered Florida Democrats who voted for George W. Bush in 2000. Why don't you also attack them? Oh well, they didn't "take away" any votes from Al Gore in Florida, only Ralph Nader voters did! Isn't that right?

Horseshit!

[Lasher]

10. Voted for Nader, huh?

I'm glad I don't have that to live with.

[Better Believe It]

11. I Didn't Steal The Election.

:)

I didn't steal the election. Nor did Nader. Bush did .... with Leiberman's help. So I sleep quite well at night.

By the way .... Gore actually won the election. You didn't know that?

[Lasher]

12. You are the only person to have used the word 'steal' or 'stole' in this thread.

Ralph Nader had a right to run, and you Nader voters had a right to make the foolish mistake you did. And I have a right to point out that if Nader hadn't been on the 2000 Florida ballot, most of the 91,434 votes he got there would have gone to Gore. That would have been enough to have made it difficult for the Supreme Court to hand it to Junior.

If you haven't minded having had Junior as president instead of Gore these past 7 years and 5 months, then I suppose you wouldn't have any regrets.

[Better Believe It]

13. That's Because Bush Did Steal The Election! You Didn't Know That?

With the help of Leiberman and the Supreme Court.

Do you think "steal" is too strong of a word to describe what happened?

[Lasher]

14. OK let's review

"Leiberman sunk Gore's attempt to stop the election theft in Florida, not Nader."

There was a number of factors, including Nader's candidacy, that contributed to the outcome of the 2000 presidential election.

"Gee .... I Didn't Know Nader Stole The Election."

I didn't say Nader stole the election.

"And how about the 250,000 registered Florida Democrats who voted for George W. Bush in 2000."

They fucked up. You fucked up too.

"I Didn't Steal The Election."

I didn't say you did. But you did fuck up.

"That's Because Bush Did Steal The Election! You Didn't Know That?"

I believe Junior and his supporters did steal the election. In the most likely recount scenario Gore would have won. And the Catherine Harris voter purge was illegal.

"Do you think "steal" is too strong of a word to describe what happened?"

It is too strong of a word to describe Nader's candidacy, and not an appropriate description of what his supporters did when they voted for him. It would be more accurate to say that they fucked up.

[Better Believe It]

18. Stop Scapegoating And Look At The Real Reasons For Bush "Winning" In 2000 & 2004

You could just as easily say that Gore "fucked up" by putting Leiberman on his ticket and that would be a whole lot closer to the truth.

I didn't have any input on who Gore picked as his running mate or how he campaigned. So don't blame me!

why I don't even live in Florida so I hardly "fucked up"!

Perhaps if both Gore and Kerry had waged effective, powerful and inspiring campaigns in opposition to Bush they would have easily won either election. But they clearly didn't. So who ya blaming for Bush's actual win in 2004 .... Ralph Nader again? I know why Kerry lost and Nader had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Now if Obama should lose this election who ya gonna blame .... Ralph Nader once again? Sounds like a convenient scapegoat to me. I won't blame Nader. I'll blame Hillary .... unless she campaigns really hard .... all out .... until November for Obama. Do you think she might begin doing that anytime soon or will we have to wait until after the convention when it will be too little and too late?

[Lasher]

19. Gore did fuck up by picking Lieberman as his running mate.

That doesn't mean you didn't by voting for Nader.

[DefenseLawyer]

17. Nader's 2000 campaign turned out to be tragic

But in the end the blame goes to Al Gore for going along with the Bob Shrum "don't make waves", stay in the middle, be-as-republican-as-possible, loser of a campaign- which included picking Lieberman for VP. He ignored labor, barely talked about the environment, and was so busy "being careful" that he had no passion. That is what gave a platform to an opportunist like Nader. And he was certainly an opportunist. He showed his true colors in 2004, running a spoiler campaign against Kerry, funded exclusively and quite openly by Republicans. Now before you anoint St. Nader, explain 2004 to me.

[Better Believe It]

20. Nader "spoiled" Kerry's Election????!!!!

I don't think Ralph Nader or Al Gore are saints, however, can you provide some evidence to back up your claim that Ralph Nader's campaign in 2004 was "funded exclusively by Republicans" and explain exactly how Nader "spoiled" Kerry's election in 2004?

Sounds like you're just repeating the DLC's anti-Nader talking points from 2004 without investigating those claims.

Kerry's attempt to beat George W. Bush by going to his right on Iraq and other issues and appearing as a "super patriot" didn't work out very well now, did it? Let's hope Obama doesn't rapidly move the right or a lot of people won't vote for him who thought he stood for meaningful change. That's one hell of a good way to give elections to Republicans .... act like a Republican lite.

Kerry did everything but sing the Star Spangled Banner and recite the Pledge of Allegiance ten times at the Democratic convention to demonstrate how very American and patriotic he is. All he needed for an encore was to get a American flag tatoo on his forehead and that might have convinced a dozen or so more right-wingnuts for vote for him rather than Bush. Unfortunately, that would have also compelled a few thousand more his supporters to vote for a socialist, for Nader or some other third party candidate on the left.

[DefenseLawyer]

21. No, he had little impact, by then too many people knew his act

but he showed his true colors by acknowledging that his campaign was funded almost entirely by Republicans and gleefully taking their money, while spouting off about how he just had "broad appeal" and that "republicans want change too" Blah blah blah. It was pathetic. Yeah right. I'm DLC. Don't be a stooge. Go back and look at Nader's own quotes about how happy he was to be funded by Republicans. The funniest thing was when his vice presidential candidate, a good man from the Green Party, was asked about Republican donations he said (to paraphrase) "Oh we don't want their money, That's not what we are about" and Old Ralph nearly broke his neck running before the cameras to say nooooooooo we LOVE republican money, we ain't giving anything back. Look it up. Sorry, but Ralph was in it for the cash at that point. A mighty warrior who decided to cashed in.

[Better Believe It]

23. Nader Said He Was Funded By The Republican Party: A DLC Talking Point

You stated that Nader "showed his true colors by acknowledging that his campaign was funded almost entirely by Republicans".

Do you have any evidence to back up that claim?

Apparently not.

Because in the very same sentence you directed me to find "Nader's own quotes about how happy he was to be funded by Republicans" because you can't find them!!!!!

Well, ya probably can't find those quotes on your own, or even with help, because they just don't exist except in the DLC's imagination.

Isn't that right?

Now they might be DLC talking points but that don't make em true!

Why, if some of the right-wing DLC elements in the Democratic Party hadn't spent millions of dollars and enormous human resources to fight Ralph Nader instead of George W. Bush, Kerry might have won the damn election!

[Lasher]

25. Nader defends GOP cash - Candidate says he's keeping money

Saturday, July 10, 2004

Democratic National Committee Chair Terry McAuliffe and former presidential candidate Howard Dean called for Ralph Nader to return donations from key Republican boosters -- but the independent presidential candidate insisted Friday he would not give in to what he called a Democratic "smear'' effort.

Nader, in what has become a public disagreement with his vice presidential candidate, Peter Camejo, strongly denied the recent windfall of donations from deep-pocketed Republicans was part of a GOP effort to wound Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts.

Nader, at a debate with Dean at the National Press Club in Washington, called for the end of "the commercial interests ... that have turned Washington into corporate-occupied territory,'' but he said he had no intention of returning the checks from Republican contributors.

The increased pressure for Nader to support Camejo's position and renounce a spate of recent donations from wealthy backers of President Bush came after The Chronicle reported Friday that 1 in 10 of Nader's biggest contributors as of May 31 also were major donors to the president's re- election campaign and the Republican Party.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/07/10/MNG9J7JMDK1.DTL

[sabra]

7. The HBO movie "Recount" highlighted this - we a great line by Kevin Spacey:

"Thank you, Joe Lieberman" - he just gave the election to Bush

[Blackhatjack]

6. Lieberman has been more supportive of Repub Positions than Dem Positions ever since....

... Gore was 'declare the loser by the US Supreme Court."

And he did not deserve the support of any Dems when he lost the Primary Race for his seat and created his own party.

[spanone]

16. lieberman was the biggest mistake of the gore candidacy imo

[book_worm]

22. I just don't get it. If FL is so important why didn't Gore and Kerry just choose Bob Graham as VP?

Certainly in '00 it would have been more than enough that they couldn't possibly steal it.

[Better Believe It]

24. "Republican lite" Strategy Just Didn't Work

Gore picked Leiberman in order to get those millions of right-wing Republican and "Reagan democrat" votes.

It didn't happen.

Why vote for "Republican lite" when you can vote for the real thing?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

26. Most respected political analysts would strongly disagree.

Picking Lieberman as running mate is generally regarded as a stroke of tactical genius on Al Gore's part, and certainly he gained massively in the polls as a result of it.

[Blackhatjack]

28. I don't think so.... strike the names of Repub strategists from your list, and who do you have left?

No political strategist worth his salt would look back on Gore's selection of Lieberman as being anything other than a massive mistake.

To state otherwise is analogous to saying Bush will be remembered as a 'success' as President.

Lieberman has done nothing to promote the Democratic Party and its platform since his selection by Gore to run as his VP running mate. If anything, his actions have hurt Democrats.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

27. Most respected political analysts would strongly disagree.

Picking Lieberman as running mate is generally regarded as a stroke of tactical genius on Al Gore's part, and certainly he gained massively in the polls as a result of it.

Remember that in those days Lieberman was still a Democrat.