Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

[AngryAmish]

"A 12-YEAR-OLD girl in Scotland brought up by her parents on a strict vegan diet has been admitted to hospital with a degenerative bone condition said to have left her with the spine of an 80-year-old woman.

Doctors are under pressure to report the couple to police and social workers amid concerns that her health and welfare may have been neglected in pursuit of their dietary beliefs.

The girl, who has been fed on a strict meat and dairy-free diet from birth, is said to have a severe form of rickets and to have suffered a number of fractured bones.

The condition is caused by a lack of vitamin D, which is needed to absorb calcium and is found in liver, oily fish and dairy produce. Decalcification leads to the bones becoming brittle and can cause curvature of the spine."

read the whole thing...and if you are raising vegan children, please know what you are doing. I personally think raising a child vegan is stupid but people are allowed to do stupid things to their children.

[kenny blankenship]

1. What would appropriate punishment for veganism be I wonder?

1000 hours of community service on a dairy farm? 500 hours service in a stockyard?

[slackmaster]

12. The issue here is Stupidism, not Veganism

The punishment should be Gulag.

[kenny blankenship]

30. I would say both isms are the result when people think they are smarter than nature

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

39. Im to assume then you dont use modern medications

Nature provided your immune system, that should be enough..

[maxidivine]

51. The issue isn't veganism,

It's the fact that her parents have caused what will probably turn out to be a variety of chronic diseases because they wanted to indoctrinate her into their belief system. I call it indoctrination into a belief system rather than "just a diet" because they did not have a care in the world for her safety or health, and must have disregarded medical advice to ensure their daughter was getting plenty of PROTEIN and CALCIUM which are the building blocks of living organisms. I bet the grandparents didn't recklessly put them on an unhealthy diet so they could feel better about themselves. "Oh look at me no one in my family contributes to the harming of animals" stupid crunchies have now destroyed their child's life. Congratulations, at least no animals were exploited in the process.

[TooBigaTent]

2. I disagree. Raising your children to respect and preserve life is not stupid. these

parents MAY HAVE made mistakes in monitoring the diet, but it is not difficult to eat in a healthy manner while adhering to a vegan regimen.

It certainly is healthier than the poison most of the "civilized" world pumps into its children.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

8. Please dont equate non vegan with poision...

Organic and free range meats, and dairy products are not poision they have been staples of the human diet as far back as we can go...

[TommyO]

44. Thank you for responding far more tactfully than I might have.

[Warpy]

3. Raising vegan kids is hardly stupid

and is a much better way to raise them than on the standard American diet of heavy meats, fried fast food, and plastic convenience grub.

However, you do need to know what you're doing. You can't expect to have a child thrive on junk food vegetarianism, either.

Undoubtedly, this poor kid's weak bones and fractures were picked up long ago and the parents were just too stupid or too lazy to do anything about it, like introducing her to high calcium seeds and veg and a healthy dose of vitamin D producing sunshine---or even buying the calcium fortified soymilk or orange juice at the supermarket.

They deserve to face charges.

[AngryAmish]

4. Vitamin D sunshine is important but this is in Scotland

Very far north and crappy weather. In the winter it must be hard to get enough sunshine.

[Warpy]

6. Hard but not impossible

and absolutely essential to go outside whenever the sun peeks through.

[rucky]

19. But Kale grows like a weed in that climate...

Research on Vegans

Not a whole lot is known about the bone status of vegans. Some small studies have shown vegans to have the same or slightly worse bone mineral density as non-vegans.9, 10, 11, 12, 13 These studies were done on vegans who might not have gotten much vitamin D or might not have made an effort to get the recommended amount of calcium in their diet.

In February of 2007, the first study looking at vegan bone fracture rates was released.14 The EPIC-Oxford study recruited 57,000 participants, including over 1,000 vegans and almost 10,000 lacto-ovo vegetarians (LOV), from 1993 to 2000. They were asked to fill out a questionnaire to measure what they ate. About 5 years after entering the study, they were sent a follow-up questionnaire asking if they had suffered any bone fractures.

After adjusting for age alone, the vegans had a 37% higher fracture rate than meat-eaters. After adjusting for age, smoking, alcohol consumption, body mass, physical activity, marital status, and births and hormone replacement therapy for women, the vegans still had a 30% higher fracture rate. (Meat-eaters, fish-eaters, and LOV fracture rates did not differ in any of the analyses performed.)

Yet, there was some good news from this study. When the results were adjusted for calcium intake, the vegans no longer had a higher fracture rate. And among the subjects who got 525 mg of calcium a day (only 55% of the vegans compared to about 95% of the other diet groups), vegans had the same fracture rates as the other diet groups.

Does this mean lower calcium intakes are the cause of the fractures? It could be that people who ate more calcium also ate more or less protein or get more vitamin D. The authors noted that fracture rates did not correlate with protein or vitamin D intake among the people in this study. For now, we should assume that calcium is what the vegans with higher fracture rates were lacking.

Conclusion on Calcium and Vegan Diets

The US recommended intake for calcium is 1,000 mg for most adults. The UK's recommended intake is 700 mg. Given the results of the EPIC-Oxford study on vegan fracture rates, it is prudent to get 700 mg per day. For the average vegan, this probably means drinking one glass of fortified soymilk each day in addition to an otherwise balanced diet.

Calcium Tips

* Many non-dairy milks are now fortified with calcium, vitamin D, and/or vitamin B-12. Many orange juices are fortified with calcium.

* Shake calcium fortified non-dairy milks before pouring as the calcium can settle on the bottom.

* The calcium in kale, broccoli, collard greens, and soymilk is absorbed about the same percentage as that in cows' milk.

* The calcium in spinach, Swiss chard, and beet greens is not well absorbed, due to their high content of oxalates, which bind calcium.

* Calcium supplements can inhibit iron absorption if eaten at the same time.4

* In addition to the calcium in the leafy greens listed on the right, leafy greens also contain vitamin K which is good for bones.

* The Daily Value for calcium on food labels is 1,000 mg. Therefore, if a food label says it has 25% of the daily value, it means it has 250 mg of calcium per serving.

http://www.veganhealth.org/articles/bones

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

10. Thank you for a balanced post

"and is a much better way to raise them than on the standard American diet of heavy meats, fried fast food, and plastic convenience grub."

Assuming the above is the only alternative to veganism is a nasty habit many vegans practice, truth be told if (a) is vegan and (b) is a McDiet then yes, A is clearly better... Fortunatly there are other choices..

[Canuckistanian]

5. Vitamin D is a problem for vegans

Since it is only found in meats and eggs. So that means taking a supplement. But then, the supplement would ultimately be derived from an animal, so if you're strict vegan, you're out of luck.

Of course, exposure to the sun allows the body to generate it own Vitamin D, but not usually enough.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

11. Ummm no..

There are seeds high in D and lets not forget your body can make D with sufficient sunlight!

[Canuckistanian]

20. What seeds?

As I understand it, Vitamin D has no vegetable sources.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

24. Well Flax seed for one...

But even seeds aside there is also blackstrap molasses... (also a great butter substitute in cookies..

Point is vegans can get D they just have to work a little more to get it..

[StarryNite]

48. Have you baked cookies with blackstrap molasses?

Seriously, I would love try a cookie recipe where it replaces butter. I just did a quick Google search and found recipes that use both. It seems to be more of a substitute for sugar than butter. Blackstrap molasses is very healthy.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

49. Yes I have a great vegan chocolate chip cookie recepie..

Its down right buttery..

1 cup unbleached all-purpose flour
1 teaspoon baking powder
1⁄2 teaspoon baking soda
1⁄4 cup unrefined sugar
1⁄4 teaspoon sea salt ( I use regular old salt in a pinch and dont notice the difference )
1⁄3 cup pure maple syrup
1⁄4 teaspoon blackstrap molasses
1 – 1 1⁄2 teaspoons pure vanilla extract
1⁄4 cup canola oil (a little generous)
1⁄3 cup non-dairy chocolate chips

Preheat oven to 350°F (176°C).

In a bowl, sift in the flour, baking powder, and baking soda. Add the sugar and salt, and stir until well combined.

In a separate bowl, combine the maple syrup with the molasses and vanilla, then stir in the oil until well combined.

Add the wet mixture to the dry, along with the chocolate chips, and stir through until just well combined (do not over-mix).

Place large spoonfuls of the batter on a baking sheet lined with parchment paper and flatten a little.

Bake for 11 minutes, until just golden (if you bake for much longer, they will dry out). Let cool on the sheet for no more than 1 minute (again, to prevent drying), then transfer to a cooling rack.

--

From: http://www.everydaydish.tv/Recipe%20Pages/dreenacookie.html

--

I have an egg allergic and a dairy allergic kid and I was close to giving up on cookies with them until I found this, best part is no worries about raw batter...

[StarryNite]

56. Thank you!

It looks yummy and chocolate chip is my favorite. I will stick to the good old semi-sweet chips though. I use sea salt all the time. What if olive, grapeseed or sunflower oil was used instead of canola? I'm just thinking they are healthier choices. And great to not have to worry about the raw batter...cookie batter is the best!

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

59. Ive use olive and sunflower

(no real difference in taste)

[MonkeyFunk]

54. Are you sure?

They're high in calcium, but I don't think they contain Vitamin D.

[lurky]

15. Wrong. There are many animal-free Vitamin D supplements.

As well as B-12, etc.

[Canuckistanian]

22. Do you mean synthetic vitamin D?

Is that easy to get?

[kenny blankenship]

23. Sounds unnatural!

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

26. Are mushrooms unnatural?

[kenny blankenship]

27. Are mushrooms synthetic supplements?

Idiot.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

31. So to sum up

1) There are plenty of natural sources of D for vegans..
2) The posters running around saying that vegans cat get is are wrong

BTW 'Idiot' was totally unnecessary, nice touch..

[kenny blankenship]

32. Vegans are the same to me as any other fundamentalist maniacs

They have a religious belief in absurdities. In this case in Scotland that led to 12 years of atrocity. Those two parents have a LOT to answer for.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

36. Many vegans are over the top and Im not well liked by them here

But I dont let that get in the way of the fact that a vegan diet can be complete...

The parents in Scotland have as much to answer for as parents who cripple their kids with obesity in the US. Both are extremely irresponsible ends of the dietary spectrum.

Im not a vegan and I see little value in the diet *but* I wont ignore the fact a responsible vegan eats as well as a responsible omnivore..

[lurky]

37. That's a pretty extreme reaction...

There are definitely some obnoxious nutjobs out there, but most vegans just want to be left alone with their tofu.

[Seeking Serenity]

38. Right you are, Ken!

[Goblinmonger]

58. What would you have to say about

the thousands of kids raised vegan that DON'T die. I would imagine that the VAST majority of children raised vegan are just fine and healthy. But, hey, don't let logic and statistics get in the way of your bigotry.

[Goblinmonger]

57. How liberal and progressive of you. n/t

[Recursion]

25. Pay no attention to the chirality behind the curtain... nt

[lurky]

29. Nope, not synthetic.

It can be extracted from certain plants and fungi.

[Canuckistanian]

33. Ah, now we're getting somewhere

I've been doing a lot of searching trying to find a natural vegetable source for Vitamin D.

The Wikipedia entry has one answer:

Mushrooms provide over 2700 IU per serving (approx. 3 oz or 1/2 cup) of vitamin D2, if exposed to just 5 minutes of UV light after being harvested;<18> this is one of a few natural food-based sources of vitamin D for vegans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D

[Krakowiak]

42. the key here is to get them dried

There is a big difference in the Vitamin D content from mushrooms that have been sundried vs. canned/packed mushrooms. If you can find those bags of dried shitake mushrooms that they sell in asian speciality markets, that's the way to go. Plus, they are absolutely delicious, with a bit more in the flavor department than your regular shitake.

[MonkeyFunk]

55. What are they?

[lurky]

61. I don't have any in front of me, but if you go to

a health food store, they will definitely have some kind of "Vegetarian Supplement" multivitamin that is made without animal products, and which is specially-formulated for vegans. For instance, they usually have like 1000% of the RDA for B-complex vitamins, which are hard to get without meat or dairy. They are more expensive than the vitamins you would get at RiteAid, but it works out to 5-6$ a month, which I think is a pretty reasonable price to pay for health. Plus, the ones at the drug store are usually made with a gelatin base (from cows) and may have animal-derived vitamins.

Here's one I found on the Internet:
http://www.vegankarma.com/servlet/the-443/deva-vegan-vegetarian-multivitamin/Detail

Cheers!

[Krakowiak]

41. Dried Shitake Mushrooms are very high in Vitamin D

The truth is that there aren't many foods out there, meat or non, that have high amounts of Vitamin D. Mostly fish, and then other kinds are just fortified with it.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

7. I would not call it stupid..

Im no vegan but it *can* be a healthy diet... Calling it a challenge might be more accurate after all you can give your kid vitamin D supplements and there is D and calcium infused soy Milk

[slackmaster]

13. Dairy-free from BIRTH sounds pretty stupid to me

Babies need milk. That's what womens' breasts are for!

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

17. Some women have trouble breast feeding

I would imagine Vegans have this trouble more often than omnivorous folks but... ( my SWAG )

My wife lost her milk at 4 months due to a bought of illness and once you lose it its pretty much gone. My daughter is dairy allergic so would not touch formula guess what I gave her...

--



--

When people say 'Dairy' they are generally talking about cow / goat milk, not mothers breast feeding their kids.

[ecstatic]

9. That's horrible :( nt

[lurky]

14. Rickets? That's not vegan, that's stupid.

All they had to do was use fortified soy milk, or give their kid a damn multivitamin, and she wouldn't have this problem.

I see people are already trying to make this about veganism, but it's really about stupid fucks who shouldn't be allowed to have kids. If their kid got sick cause they fed her nothing but hot dogs, would people claim that was "proof" that eating meat was bad? No, I didn't think so.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

60. Well I can understnad some of the reactions

every time there is a problem with a meat supply because of poor production practices the first thing many vegans start screaming ( <-- Appropriate verb ) is that this is a problem with eating meat *not* that its a problem with factory farming.. So when something like this pops up people respond in kind..

[SheilaT]

16. Sometimes parents can

be appallingly ignorant and neglectful. In this case, it's appallingly ignorant and neglectful to let this child get to this point without doing something about it. I personally think that extreme diets like vegan are dumb, BUT people have a right to eat as they wish, and as others have pointed out there are supplements as well as some other foods that can give even a vegan diet good balance and full nutrition.

We periodically read similar stories about parents who have some bias against doctors and whose children as a consequence suffer or die from things easily treated. While it's important to respect variant belief systems, there's a problem when children are harmed as a result.

[bean fidhleir]

34. It used to be the case - back when there was a *real* Labour government

that social-service professionals would intervene in a very low-key way to provide better information and even daily help to parents who were floundering. It was construed as being an important part of National Health.

[bean fidhleir]

35. (inadvertent doop)

[HockeyMom]

18. There was similar incident here

a while ago regarding parents who tried to feed a baby under a year old a vegan diet with dire consequences.

I just cannot understand this. What is so against a vegan diet about giving the infant mother's breast milk? Would that be considered animal product too? It's what nature intended human infants to be norished with. Also, didn't these parents ever hear of soy based infant's formula? I cannot understand risking a young child's health over this.

I know this case is about a preteen girl, but this other one shows what can happen too.

[Bettie]

21. The few Vegans I know don't even breastfeed

Since their milk is an "animal product". I personally think that is a bit weird, but hey, to each is own.

That seems a bit extreme, but I would think that whatever your dietary preferences, you'd work to ensure that your child receives balanced and proper nutrition.

I don't know that it can be proven that the vegan diet is at fault, but the parents certainly do bear some responsibility for not ensuring adequate nutrition for proper development.

[anigbrowl]

40. Now that's terminally idiotic.

I respect people's desire to minimize their impact on the planet and not eat meat etc. if they feel it's a moral issue, but I don't have much sympathy for militant vegans. Anyone who takes it that far (not using breast milk) has psychological problems.

[Codeine]

50. That's mind-bogglingly stupid.

Your friends aren't vegans, they are retarded.

[XOKCowboy]

62. We could start a whole new thread about breastfeeding..

Just another thing that I'm happy my parents did for me. Breastfeeding, spanking and kicking my butt out when it was time to make a living.

[Locrian]

28. hmmm

While I respect the moral reasons for vegan etc, our bodies are still based on 100,000's of years of hunter / gatherer ie animial meat, vs about 10,000 years of agriculture, with the "modern" diet of processed food only about 100. We have Fred Flintsone bodies in a George Jetson world.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

43. Deliberately refusing to allow your child food they need probably should be criminal.

If the parents didn't know anything about this beforehand then they're spectacularly stupid, but shouldn't be prosecuted.

If they had had any hint of the health problems the diet they were feeding her was causing their daughter, they should probably be fined.

[BlooInBloo]

45. They'll show us. They don't care HOW sickly and unhealthy their kids are. THEY'LL SHOW US!!!!

:rofl:

[flvegan]

46. Hot damn, but there's a lot of stupid in this thread.

Let's see: vegans are fundamentalist maniacs. Check.

Totally ignoring the fact that the problem was poor nutrition/nutritional training and (I'm guessing) infrequent visits to a doctor. Check.

See, paying attention would lead one to believe that a combination of poor parenting and poor nutritional knowledge led to this unfortunate kid's condition. Not veganism, per se.

Glad to see that the point was missed and names were called. Typical.

[TommyO]

47. There is stupid on both sides of this issue, unfortunately

Just look at the post referring to "...the poison most of the "civilized" world pumps into its children", that's just as incendiary as the "fundamentalist vegan" post

[Dorian Gray]

52. Couldn't they give the kid vitamins?

You'd think they'd at least take her to the doctor and be given advice on supplements.

[cbc5g]

53. There are supplements to give to prevent that in Vegans

Parents have to be held accountable to make sure their kids aren't malnourished.

I do see whats wrong with the mass slaughtering of animals for human consumption but I honestly don't see whats wrong with milk and cheese besides the possible bad conditions those animals might be kept in. Even then, you could raise your own or just buy from companies with good records in animal treatment.