Impeachment is a terrible idea

[gravity]

I believe that Bush deserves impeachment, but I don't believe that it is in the best interest of this country.

The only thing impeachment will do is divide this country up even more, which will just help the republicans. Most moderates in this country don't agree with impeachment, and they will side with the republicans on this issue regardless of the facts behind it. This means more years of republican rule which will bring our country in to more of a tailspin.

What this country needs more than anything it unity to push the Democrats cause. We should put our efforts in making the future better, rather than dwelling on old battles. This means that we have to attract those who voted for Bush in the past, which requires a sense of forgiveness. Any motions to impeach the president would ruin any chance of reaching out, and hurt our chances of winning the poltical support we need.

I hear a lot of cries for justice which has merit, but I place moving this country forward and fixing this mess a higher priority.

[MrCoffee]

1. Not impeaching is worse for the country

If Congress stands aside and allows this President to usurp it's authority, what's to stop the next President from doing the same thing?

For that matter, what's going to force the next President to return that authority to Congress, where it belongs?

[gravity]

8. In a perfect world, I would agree

but we live a democracy, and have to deal with the political reality in front of us. If impeachment will divide this nation and hurt the Democratic cause, I am not for it

[grasswire]

24. I'm thinking of the word "appeasement"...

....and believe it is applicable after so many years of capitulation to thugs and despots.

[warren pease]

28. If we lived in a democracy, we wouldn't be living under a regime fronted by ...

..an unelected fraudulent imbecile with his very own puppet master calling the shots.

We wouldn't be living in a world created out of thin air by mass media so we can watch CNN all day, every day, and not know a damn thing about what's actually going on in our own country.

We wouldn't have to deal with the awful truth that about 2 percent of the country runs the show, and that they don't run it for our benefit.

In a democracy, we'd get to vote for anybody we damn well wanted to, instead of letting mass media thin the herd until the only candidates left are those who have passed the test administered by our massuhs, convincing the elites that they're harmless supporters of the status quo and won't do anything to diminish the revenue streams of the ruling class.

In a democracy we'd get to throw Nancy Pelosi out on her conniving, complicit ass and replace her with somebody who understands that the Constitution trumps electoral politics. Maybe even find a replacement who can control the party members such that the blue dogs could either get in line or have their DNC campaign funds cut off. They're so used to hiding their black little GOPer hearts behind the little "d" after their names it would be a pleasure to watch them have to vote with the democratic majority every now and then.

A real leader would understand that there's never a wrong time to impeach criminals whose offenses are on a scale unheard of since the golden age of Central and South American right wing dictators and their death squads -- sponsored, armed and kept in power by the CIA because they agreed to suck up to US corporate interests and screw their people if necessary to keep United Fruit and Standard Oil rolling in money. And never mind the disappeared; they're just the '70s and '80s version of our terra-ists and would be tortured in the American gulag today.

Since we don't live in a democracy, and since the Bushies have pretty much nullified the Bill of Rights and much of the Constitution itself, it's the job of congress -- which claims to represent the will of the people -- to get off the phone and start fighting for justice rather than dialing for campaign dollars every waking moment.

But I'm just a delusional thwarted idealist who expects more from people who tell us they're better than we are. So we elect them and then they immediately disprove their alleged superiority by spending their time getting cozy with lobbyists bribe masters from corporate America and then selling us out whenever there's a conflict between the needs of the citizenry and the profits of their corporate employers.

Democracy my ass. This isn't a democracy; it's the fucking Soviet Union without the museums and the history.


wp

[LSparkle]

2. Yadda-yadda-yadda ... when it is EVER a "good time" for impeachment?

Was it a "good time" when Bill C. got a blowjob? Just because
the Rethugs turned the idea of impeachment into a salacious, un-
dignified, overly political circus is no reason we should not
USE THIS CONSTITUTIONAL REMEDY to remove a man whose actions
BEG for some form of comeuppance.

[mmonk]

3. Continuing to live the lies and crimes by keeping them under the rug

are not in the best interests of this country. Free people do not live under a government of secrets and distortions.

[az chela]

4. Right ,lets continue the murders and torture of innocent people

destroy this country for a war president whose only interest is oil.How dumb can u be?????????

[sellitman]

5. Since when is protecting the Constitution a terrible idea?

Since when is holding criminals up to the light of the law a bad idea?

Not ever in my book.

[billybob537]

6. we should all be allowed

to break whatever laws we want.
Oh wait that's childish

DUH

[geckosfeet]

7. You won't fix it if you send the message that this shit acceptable.

Criminals need to be prosecuted.

[Wizard777]

9. This is the only way to move the country forward.

We cannot allow Bush & Cheney to be an albatross around the neck of every president facing the world for the next 100 years.

[gravity]

19. I disagree

It will move our country back in the heated battles we had in the run up before the war.

We can recognize the mistakes of the past so we don't repeat them again, without this impeachment process

[Wizard777]

30. But what if somebody does want to repeat them? What are you going to do about it?

Impeach them or just roll over and play dead AGAIN? Why not just Impeach them now and be done with it? Draw a line and double dirty dog dare any future presidents to cross it! Do you REALLY want to take a chance on going through this AGAIN?

[Desertrose]

10. This is part of the mess that needs to be fixed.

Criminals should not be able to get away without even being called on their shit.

If nothing else, it is at least on record that some one stood up and said this is just WRONG.


Can't fix something if you pretend it didn't happen or doesn't matter.

[trthnd4jstc]

11. Having been personally hurt by this Bastard, Impeach Now!

Dear Gravity,

I am certain that life would be much nicer without impeachment, but there has not been a worse president than W. I used to converse with the Army prior, and after 9-11, but because I came out against his military strategies, I had Secret Service spend a little time into my business, causing associates and family to wonder what is up. His administration placed partisanship above the country. He deserves to suffer immensely for his crimes against our Nation, and the World.

Thank You,
Trthnd4justc

[lonestarnot]

12. So you are also of the notion, "It's just a God damned piece of paper."

[stillcool]

13. "Dwelling on old battles"?

There is nothing old about illegal wars, over a million dead bodies, and the intentional destruction of two societies. But what they hey, let's just pretend it didn't happen. Who cares? Let's get fucked a little more before we do something about the utter and total corruption of our government.

[gravity]

15. And how does impeachment fix those problems?

There are other ways of fixing these problems than dividing up the country

[TheWatcher]

26. How does letting these criminals walk away Scott Free help the country?

[GaYellowDawg]

33. You are asking the wrong question.

Impeachment is not a solution. It is a punishment. Punishment never fixes problems. It prevents future similar problems. If I punch you in the nose, break it, and get arrested for assault, the arrest does not undo the broken nose or any of the pain you've suffered. It does, however, make me think twice about punching someone else. There is no action that undoes W's actions. There is no action that brings back Iraqi and American lives. But we can sure punish the people responsible for the loss of life.

Let me put this differently. The Nuremburg trials didn't fix anything. They didn't bring back a single one of the six million Jewish lives snuffed out by the Nazis. But they were held accountable and the gravity and scope of their crimes were exposed for the world to see. They were punished.

Not only that, deciding to let the clock run out and let W and his cronies skate encourages excesses by future administrations. Why shouldn't any given lame duck administration in the future go completely nuts in the last couple of years if they know there are no consequences?

[stillcool]

38. I really don't understand why it is...

that revealing crimes committed against the American People is a bad thing. And I really don't see how you can fix the problem of these crimes being committed by government officials, when you keep sweeping it under the rug. Although, that is the American way.

[bemildred]

14. It's a great fucking idea whose time has come. nt

[erebusman]

16. how can it not be in the best interest of the country?

My logic chip is apparently on fire at the moment, I thought you said that you don't believe its in the best interest of the country to impeach Bush?

Maybe what you mean is that it is not in the better interest of the Democratic party in an election year to pursue impeachment? Just grasping here, I don't want to put words in your mouth.

See; when you say it that way my logic chip lights up; and I understand what your concern is.

Your afraid aren't you? You are afraid we won't win again right?

Burn past the fear, and start demanding that our representatives be righteous and faithful towards us and our constitution my friend. Asking anything less is most definitely not in the best interest of our country my friend.

Are you seriously willing to settle for less than your forefathers bled and died for? How low would you like us to set the bar for your fears to be settled?

peace

[Lorien]

17. "Most moderates in this country don't agree with impeachment" got a link

to back that up? That's not what I'm seeing. Even many repugs that I know think that Bush needs to be impeached at this point, and they aren't sure that they'll vote Dem because the Dems are too weak to back impeachment!

On edit: The majority backs impeachment: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10562904

[goodhue]

18. Try thinking of it as a verb, not a noun

Maybe that will produce light bulb moment

[Cleita]

20. This country needs to be divided between the true patriots,

who uphold the Constitution, and the corporate, globalist sell outs who are criminals. This old canard about moderates not agreeing with upholding the Constitution and siding with the Republicans over treason is a scare tactic from the right that neither you nor anyone else needs to buy into. Where were all the moderates when Clinton was impeached over a dirty blue dress? No one crowed about division then.

[guitar man]

21. it's past high time

the only way I would support NOT impeaching these crooks is if they are going to arrest them and try them on criminal charges after they leave office. If they are not doing to do that, then impeachment is the right thing to do even if it costs us the election. Principle before politics.

Just MHO...

[JDPriestly]

22. I disagree. If the violations of law were very few, you would be right.

But the abuse of the Constitution and the violations of law are just beyond the level that can be accepted. The truth must be brought out, and it must be done in a way that fixes the historical record to reflect that truth and nothing else. If the truth is told, the Republicans will understand what has happened and the country will no longer be divided. The impeachment is not about policy or political philosophy. It is about crime. It is about the many crimes of this administration.

Much of the criminal behavior has been in the form of classic corruption -- in particular the awarding of contracts to unscrupulous private contractors who have stolen taxpayer money, or committed fraud by promising to perform certain work knowing all the while that they did not really plan to do the work. There has also been a lot of downright old fashioned theft.

Then there is the perfidy of the Bush administration when it took money allocated by Congress for other purposes and used it to plan and fund the initial steps of the Iraq War. Then there was the collusion and cheating about such things as the Niger documents. The list is so long. Dennis Kucinich is the expert (along with Henry Waxman) on the crimes of this administration that are not political but rather the kinds of basic crimes that will thoroughly shock ordinary partisan Republicans, if ever confronted or allowed to really see the evidence. The Bush administration and its friends stole the birthrights of our children and grandchildren.

[grasswire]

23. at what point do we stop those who attack the Constitution?

If not now, when?

We didn't do it when the same crowd nearly brought down FDR in a military coup.

The elite industrialists and the GOP have been attacking the Constitution with impunity and regularity since then!

We didn't want to raise hell over Iran Contra.

We didn't punish those responsible for the coup attempt against Bill Clinton.

We didn't punish those responsible for the coup 2000.

We didn't punish Bush-Cheney for allowing 9-11 and covering it up.

We didn't punish anyone for politicizing the DoJ.

We didn't punish anyone ....... well, the list is too long.

So when does it stop? When? When?

Nearly everything has been taken from the people by anti-American, anti-democratic thugs. Where does it stop?

[TheWatcher]

25. It really comes down to a simple question.

Do you believe that Gorge W Bush, Dick Cheney, and this murderous, criminal Mafioso cabal deserve to walk away SCOTT FREE for their crimes and not be held accountable on the record?

Should we just allow them to walk away and try to pretend that none of this ever happened, and we can all breathe a sigh of relief and that they are just going to magically go away and never bother us again?

Do you really believe that just sweeping it all under the rug is the best solution for our country, and that it will prevent anything like this from ever happening again?

We have a huge mess to clean up on this country, and that includes holding these criminals accountable for their crimes.

If they can get away with it now, they will get away with it again when they crawl back out of the walls like cockroaches in eight years, perhaps even sooner than that.

At what point do we draw the line and actually UPHOLD the laws of this land and the rule of law in our Constitution?

At what point to we treat the DISEASE itself, instead of just the symptoms?

[Blarch]

27. Impeaching is NOT a choice.

It's our duty.

[Sperk]

29. with all due respect.... I am soooo tired of this argument.

I don't CARE if it divides the country more (I don't think it will anyway). Congress has sworn an OATH to uphold the constitution REGARDLESS of the political consequences. Either we are a NATION OF LAWS or we are not! Enough with the fear of reprisals, already!!!!! What has "going along, to get along" gotten us so far!?!?!?!?! DEFICITS....DEVASTATION....DEATH...THAT'S WHAT!!!!

Sometimes you just have to TRUST and do the right thing!!!!

[Growler]

34. Even if it leads to 8 more years of Republican gov't??

No thank you!! I'd prefer a Democratic President who will re-build our Laws and strengthen our government. Obama was a constitional scholar -- I trust him to get us back on track. ANYTHING that impedes a Democrat from taking the WH is to be avoided, IMO, even if it hurts in the short term.

[GaYellowDawg]

31. I disagree.

Once I would have agreed with you, but I think that history teaches us differently.

When Iran-Contra broke, there were a lot of Democrats who wanted to impeach Reagan. After all, he'd directly contravened Congress - the Boland Amendment - and provided direct funding of Contra militants in Nicaragua.

Tip O'Niell knew that this was an impeachable offense. He knew it, and according to John Murtha, he squelched it because he said that The country couldn’t stand another impeachment. Well, I think that was crap. The country got through the Civil War. It got through WWII. It got through the Kennedy assassination. It could have gotten through an impeachment in 1986, a full dozen years after Nixon. And if all of that had come to light, then George Bush's role would also have come to light. Bang. No Bush presidency, which would have meant that Saddam Hussein would have never gotten misleading signals from the administration that it was OK to invade Kuwait. We would never have had Desert Storm, and, since that was Osama bin Ladin's primary rationale for the formation of al Quaeda, no al Qaeda (or at least, not one dedicated to terrorism against the US) and 9/11. The Republican Party would have been severely weakened again, and I doubt that Newt Gingrich and the neocons would have seen as much accessibility to power.

We, as a country, would have been in immeasurably better shape today had O'Neill paid more attention to his oath of office to protect the Constitution. Instead, not only did Reagan officials completely get away with Iran-Contra, but it greatly empowered the worst elements of the GOP. If impeachment was an actual consequence to be feared, we wouldn't have the excesses of W's administration. If W gets away with it scot-free, what future maniac are we enabling?

[Growler]

32. I totally agree with you

I understand what motivates those that cry for Impeachment, but it is seriously not going to happen. I'm not talking about what "should" happen, or what "must" happen, but simply what WILL happen. The Dems in Congress have NO WAY to implement this!

Again, I'm not saying that it shouldn't happen in an ideal world... but in the Real World, it just won't. Politics is the art of getting things done, and if you aren't getting something done you are simply masturbating in public.

If Impeachment cannot happen due to the current make-up of Congress, spending time and effort on it simply weakens us for the real issue (IMO): taking back the White House.

A lot of people say "The Constitution Must be Defended!!" -- but I guess they haven't been paying attention because the Constitution has basically been abolished the past 8 years. You don't defend the Constitution by attacking the symptoms -- you attack the cause of the weakness: a Republican dominated WH and Congress.

Everything else is a distraction.

[Bluebear]

35. Punishment for crimes committed is not "in the best interest" of our country?

[noamnety]

36. It's not part of our country's heritage.

We've always believed in one set of rules for them, another set of rules for the rest of us. Why mess with that now? ;)

[mentalsolstice]

37. Too late for impeachment. Need to concentrate on election, & then....

Send these m'fers to the Hague. Let the international courts deal with them, they many not be as likely to be kind to them as our Congress.