Did you guys love Kerry as much as you love Obama now?

[tuggle]

I ask because so many dems are down on Kerry because he lost to Bush. I just feel that besides w's stealing Ohio, 1/2 the country voted for a clear moron. So I can't blame Kerry, who has been an excellent senator, and who was a smart and competent candidate. I don't say I didn't get angry with him, but I blame idiot americans, of which there are plenty

[NRaleighLiberal]

1. I respected Kerry and voted happily for him, but Obama excites me more -

he has a freshness of approach - the youth, the oratory skills - that makes him a much more powerful, favorable candidate for me.

[NotThisTime]

28. I feel exactly the same way.... voted happily for Kerry, very enthusiastically supported Obama

[Hekate]

82. Exactly. Respected Kerry -- really get excited by Obama.

Kerry's the much-respected Elder Statesman (and regrettably a very boring speaker). Obama is the fresh new voice, brilliant, with a great future, pulling in what looks like an entire new generation of Democratic voters.

Hekate

[babylonsister]

2. I loved Kerry and still do. He's quite a statesman imo, and

has never stopped working for us.

[jwirr]

15. Absolutely. The problem the things he was doing for us and our

country were not known by the majority of people. BCCI, etc.

[Xipe Totec]

3. so many dems are down on Kerry?

linkie please?

Or did you just pull that out of a dark place down under?

[tuggle]

21. yeah a dark place down under my coffee table - my dem friends!

[undeterred]

4. I still love John Kerry

About the same for me.

[onehandle]

5. Yes. nt

[Warpy]

6. People were angry with Kerry because he didn't fight,

something so completely out of character for him that they should have been asking "why?"

I don't think we'll ever know the complete answers to why he let the Swift Boat libel go on (and it was libel, he had a great case the day that book came out) or why he didn't contest the obviously crooked Ohio election.

However, people didn't rage against him because he lost. They were angry because he won and didn't pursue it.

[pansypoo53219]

29. he waved a white flag.

so much for being a soldier.

i was for dean. not lurch.

[blue sky at night]

7. I feel the same....

we have no one to blame but ourselves. Well the roughly 50% of the electorate that voted wrong, then the rest that help steal it in ohio.

[StevieM]

8. I never liked Kerry and don't like Obama. It amazed me that we had a candidate (Gephardt)

who came out with a plan that we could all embrace: scrap the Bush tax cut, replace it with a different tax cut which provides health care to every American. And we acted like he was a nobody who stood for the status quo.

Nobody stood for progressive values in that election more then Richard Gephardt did. On health care and on labor issues too.

Steve

[gullwing300]

22. I just mourn the fact that out of 50 million Democrats we got stuck with Clinton and Obama.

It's maddening.

[StevieM]

59. I agree with half of what you said--I don't like Obama, but I love Clinton. Still, I wouldn't have

minded as much if she lost to a different Democrat.

I am already planning to vote against Obama in the 2012 Primaries if he wins this time, which I doubt he will.

Steve

[gullwing300]

62. I hesitate to respond because I'll get flamed but Obama has little to no chance of winning

the presidency. That is not what I WANT, it's just the way of American politics.

[StevieM]

81. Yep (and you better reply before 12 PM tomorrow or PM me). I can't see how he possibly

wins for five reasons.

1) All of the stuff we ignored will hurt in a GE. Many Americans still don't know about Bill Ayers or "bitter" or even all about Jeremiah Wright.

2) McCain is the one Republican who can win.

3) Some of the stuff from the primary may come up again--Clinton supporters might be reminded of some of the things that were said and done that they didn't like or think was fair.

4) I think McCain will pick Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska.

5) I think McCain will pacify the base by announcing up front that he is only looking to serve one term.

Steve

[sazemisery]

9. I have admired Sen. Kerry since April, 1971 when he was..

at the front of the veterans anti-war movement.

I admire Sen. Obama and will support him with my money, my time and my vote.

I loved Bobby Kennedy. He was our hope.

[Hekate]

83. "How do you tell someone to be the last man to die for a mistake?" John F. Kerry 4-23-1971

Kerry was great then, just great...

Hekate

[Demobrat]

10. I couldn't stand Kerry. I like Obama

but I wouldn't call it love. I loved Howard Dean, and still do.

[stevil]

11. I liked Kerry

I did not love him. I honestly thought that the country was ready to dump Bush at the time and was very dissapointed when it was over. I know a lot more about politics and politicians since then but I can honestly say that Barack Obama excites me, leaders like him are few and far between.

[panader0]

12. Liked Bill Bradley too

[AlCzervik]

13. Which Dems are "down" on Kerry? Got something to back that up or did you pull that from an orifice?

[tuggle]

24. why be rude?

[AlCzervik]

25. why make a blanket statement with nothing to back it up?

[tuggle]

27. why don't you trust my own experience - it's not a blanket statement

[AlCzervik]

30. because your experience speaks for you, it doesn't speak at all to the democrats i

know in real life and on du.

[tuggle]

31. you've got a hate buzz going

[AlCzervik]

36. wrong, i think you're projecting.

[babylonsister]

35. To my regret, I have no links, but there have been many DUers

who have trashed Kerry. I'm surprised you haven't picked up on that.

[tuggle]

37. thanks, babylonsister! I hear it all the time, and I am always sticking up for Kerry

[Firespirit]

38. There's one upthread, calling him "Lurch." Not too hard to find if you look, but

why save links to ugliness? I know I don't.

[AlCzervik]

39. well i guess i missed it but i don't think that speaks for the majority. I was a Dean gal

and when he dropped out i was crushed but Kerry was also my senator when i lived in Mass and i had a lot of respect for him, i didn't love him but i liked what he did and i admired him and i still do, he is a gentleman to the end.

[babylonsister]

78. See this thread? Now you know, and I have seen this...a lot.

And BTW, I think it sucks.

[Breeze54]

43. 39% of MA voters and possible PO'd Clinton supporters....

Kerry seeks to head off primary battle

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/06/07/kerry_seeks_to_head_off_primary_battle/?page=2

snip->

But Kerry could face problems, from a large contingent of Hillary Clinton supporters who were upset with his endorsement of Barack Obama; from lingering resentment over his Iraq war vote; and from those who simply don't want to deny O'Reilly a spot on the ballot.

snip->

A poll released last week indicated that 63 percent of Massachusetts residents would vote for Kerry over either Beatty or Ogonowski. The poll, which was conducted by Rasmussen Reports and did not test Kerry against O'Reilly, said that 61 percent of Massachusetts voters have a favorable view of Kerry.

[sandnsea]

44. How can you miss the antagonism towards Kerry?

There's hardly a day goes by that somebody isn't bashing Kerry somewhere on this board. The second the right wing snickered about Obama bike riding, out came pics of Kerry windsurfing. It never stops.

[AlCzervik]

45. most thread titles that are assholish i tend to stay away from, generally they don't

include any useful information, that's would be why i stayed far away from gdp for the last few months.

[Ashy Larry]

14. I liked Kerry then and still do.

I like Obama much more than Kerry though. He's much more talented as a candidate I think.

[nevergiveup]

16. I think Obama is a better

candidate and certainly more inspirational than Kerry but the same "idiot Americans" are still out there. Hopefully the inspirational aspect of Obama and his superior grass roots organization will bring out enough new voters and make it impossible for the Repubs to steal this one. J.M. is a weak candidate but so was Chimpy. Frankly I have no clue what is going to happen. One day I am confident Obama will pull it off and the next day I totally lose faith and think, oh shit, is it going to happen again?

[azmouse]

17. I liked Kerry but I like Obama more.

[Solon]

18. I barely tolerate either of them. n/t

[MH1]

19. More.

Obama is good, but too many people don't know what we missed out on by not electing John Kerry.

[YvonneCa]

46. I know...

...MH1. :hi:

[AnnieBW]

20. I was with Kerry from the beginning

Although it was more in support of Mama T as First Lady. As a former Pittsburgher, I've always had respect for her and the Heinz family's commitment to Pittsburgh and the environment. John Heinz was one of two Republicans that I've ever voted for. The other was the person running against Gov. Schaefer here in Maryland.

[tuggle]

23. did you all see Kerry confront the swiftboat donor? awesome!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7vCGm33HAU

[MH1]

34. Yep, Kerry did a great job there.

[Mister Ed]

26. I respected Kerry. I admire Obama. n/t

[Breeze54]

32. Who is "you guys"? And why do you assume all of DU "loves Obama"?

I was pretty pissed off at Senator Kerry and did not vote for him in the MA Primary but after he
was the nominated, I actually worked to get him elected. The alternative was totally unacceptable.
I didn't vote for Obama in the Primary either.

[tuggle]

33. "you guys" are those here that love obama. Man, I've got to write disclaimers for every post!

[Breeze54]

80. It seemed to me that you thought all of DU was on the Obama train... that's why I asked.

I wanted to make sure that you knew that wasn't true.

:hi: Welcome to DU!

[Lorien]

40. I don't much like either. My positions are pretty far to the left of theirs

they are both too corporate for my tastes and neither had/ has any bold, revolutionary ideas. I vote for them only because the alternative is much worse.

[tuggle]

42. mmm I'm always more left than my reps, but

I think at least when I vote for Kerry or Edwards or Obama, they represent my views in part and represent a majority of americans who aren't as left as me.

[Lorien]

65. The majority of Americans are to the left of MOST representatives

there have been many studies done on just how "conservative" our nation is, and as it turns out most Americans ARE liberal but our corporate conservative media has fooled them into believing otherwise. Our reps, on the other hand...

[seabeyond]

41. i liked kerry more and wanted him to run this time. obama reminds me of

kerry in character....

[YvonneCa]

47. Agreed. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. I don't care for any of them any more

will just "vote" since I expect it to be stolen anyway

Yes, call me cynical

[OneAmerica]

49. No, not even close.

Kerry had all the charisma of a dead fish. I even remember specifically thinking that the dems would have been better off running Edwards for president because for Edwards, I would have actually got up and voted for him. And now that they finally did, I was drawn to Obama greatly over him (though I would have been happy to still vote for him anyway)

[Redstone]

50. You're making NO fucking sense whatsoever with this post.

What's your point?

Redstone

[NoSheep]

52. I love you. I really do.

}(

[Redstone]

57. Thank you. I'm almost, but not quite yet, back to the old form. Time will tell,

but it's not saying anything right now.

Redstone

[NoSheep]

58. Best wishes. We have so much to be hopeful about right now.

These crappy threads are even beginning to amuse me somewhat. I can't believe I just wrote that!:hug:

[AlCzervik]

54. Hi Redstone.

Really good to see you.

[Redstone]

55. Thank you. I'm almost back, but not quite yet.

Maybe in a few days. We'll see.

Redstone

[NoSheep]

51. I liked John Kerry very much, until he didn't contest the stolen election.

[orleans]

53. ah, yes. kerry. i thought he was okay--then he called off the lawyers in ohio

and then came the concession speech that i never got over and never forgave him for. i remember hearing he was packed and had to go to a christmas party at the schwarzenegger's. i thought: so that was his priority?? that was the straw that broke my camel's back.

i like obama. (there's good things and bad--i think he's far more genuine than kerry.)

[tnlefty]

56. Didn't/ don't love either one, but I fall in line behind the

Democratic nominee and go to work to try to get our nominees elected. :shrug:

[Skittles]

61. same here

neither Kerry nor Obama excites me but either one is 10,000 times better than any repuke

[tnlefty]

64. Hey Skittles!! Haven't seen you around much lately, but that

could be me as local races, etc., have me busy. I hope that all is well with you! And, yes, 10,000 or more, better than any re:puke:

[Skittles]

66. I'm around, usually always in the middle of the night

yes INDEED!

[AlCzervik]

70. when the most asskickings are needed! i'll be needing your services this week

will you kick the ass of an almost 14 year old or are there some sort of guidelines you follow?

[Skittles]

71. teenagers - virtual ass-kickings work on them

very tech-oriented little whippershappers, they are - yes INDEED! :hi:

[AlCzervik]

74. excellent, thanks, really appreciate it.

:toast:

[Arugula Latte]

60. Nope. Not even close... I love Obama way more than I ever "loved" Kerry.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

63. I was never wild about Kerry

I supported Edwards in the primaries of '04, and I did this time as well. I knew that Kerry's eventual downfall would be that he was too passive as a campaigner to fight back against the smear.

I have concerns about Obama, but I love his passion and fire. The only drawback is that the smear merchants will be sure to draw every bigot and racist out of the rathole to vote against him in November, and I fear we will come up short, even against McLame.

[Aristus]

67. I was proud to vote for Kerry. I think he, like all of us who are true patriots,

was genuinely shocked that anyone would attack a candidate because of his honorable war record. How could anyone anticipate that? No wonder he was slow to react. Swiftboat Veterans For Truth were like something out of an Onion article or a Marx Brothers movie. How could anybody take such pathetic, lying losers seriously? But the old saying occurs to me: Nobody ever went broke underestimating the stupidity of the American people.

I was proud to vote for Kerry. But I'm excited to vote for Obama. :bounce:

[live love laugh]

68. No

[MercutioATC]

69. Hated Kerry, really like Obama. It's almost like getting Dean as the 2004 nominee.

And yes, I held my nose and voted for Kerry.

[Withywindle]

72. I grew to love Kerry.

It took a little work - reading up on his past and his record, it wasn't all laid out there - but once I'd done it, I was so glad I did and never looked back. By the time that sorry election cycle was coming to an end, I really was amazed by him and I couldn't understand why others didn't see what I saw (Still don't).

With Obama, he's got less of a record, but the passion and the potential is there, and I'm frankly kind of amazed that so many people see and feel what I do, so enthusiastically.

I remember the "Reagan revolution" when I was a kid, and just being appalled because whatever it was so many people were joyous about in him, it wasn't there for me - I was repulsed.

For once, I know how it feels to have the "crowd wave" agree with me. I suppose I ought to be more cynical, but where's the fun in that? I'm going to fucking enjoy the hell out of it while I have the chance and it's on "my side" for a change.

I'm so glad Kerry came out as a fairly early Obama endorser - I love pictures of them together - to me, that tells me my gut feeling about Obama is correct (also the fact that it was Dick Durbin who probably worked harder than anyone else to convince him to run - talk about underrated politicians who I'd jump into traffic for.)

[unkachuck]

73. no....n/t

[Steerpike_Denver]

75. No, I didn't love Kerry

I was a fervent Deaniac, and to this day I think he would have been a better candidate. He had the same intensity and spirit that Obama has shown, and I think he would have taken Shrub in a walk. He was angry dammit, just like most of the country was, and he got a lot of the same young, ethnic and apathetic voters off their asses. Obama capitalized on that same pool of outsiders and they have the same kind of intensity for him that they had for Dean. Unfortunately, the establishment party, and especially the DLC, were afraid of that anger, and cut him off at the knees so that we could rally behind the ever-so-much-more "electable" Kerry. We all see how well that worked out.

Kerry is an honorable man, sure, and he would have made a far better president than what we ended up with (not a terribly high standard to be sure...) but he didn't have the fire in his belly we needed and need to take this country back.

[Carnea]

76. hell no n/t

[libodem]

77. I like Obama more

I didn't really know who Kerry was when he started. It seemed like there were so many hats in the ring that I didn't have a good fix on any of them. I was even a bit confused over the constant loop of Howard Dean's whooping laugh track. I still believed the media was for the people back then and that he might have been kind of a nut. I know better now and I'm wild over Howard, (I'm just doing a bit of public confession). I think Kerry is a very sharp man. I think he was walking a tight rope with his public image.

He was much more of a war hero that George Bush ever thought of being. He had a perfect right to speak out in protest against the war since he had been there and knew what a grave mistake it was. I walked in protest marches myself back in the day. But it was as if he couldn't wear what he stood for as a badge of honor. He couldn't say, hell yeah I threw my medals and ribbons over the fence in protest over the war. The propaganda campaign against him made him look like a peace-nic hippie flip-flopper vs 'The War President'. He shoulda just said he was going to end the war if he was elected and he was proud that he protested the Viet Nam war. But he couldn't.

I think, Obama, is starting out much stronger. He doesn't have to be an apoligist for what his past beliefs and actions were. He can stand right up and say he'll get us out of Iraq as soon as ASAP. The war is wrong, stupid and a mistake. He has a much higher profile at least with me. I know who he is and have known who he is since the big convention speech 4 years ago. I like him.

edit: typo

[HughMoran]

79. Not really

I don't love candidates, but I think Obama has great potential.

[Spiffarino]

84. I think he's a great guy who had a lousy team

This is what makes Obama's 2008 campaign far superior to Kerry's. His time from attack to response is same day, and he is a master at staying on-message. His ground game is unsurpassed; It's what took Hillary out of the running in spite of her tremendous name recognition, organization and talent. She was such a powerhouse that no one thought any Democrat could stop her, and yet he did. It was no accident.

He gets kudos for great speeches. What he doesn't get is the recognition he deserves for putting together an excellent campaign organization. If he can do that, he can certainly forge the team this country needs to get it back on track.

[MrSlayer]

85. I hated the Chimp far more than I liked Kerry as the nominee.

I supported Kerry once he became the nominee but I basically voted against Bush rather than voted for John.

I migrated to Obama in this primary. I wanted Clark or Gore to enter the race and when they didn't and because of the sadly obvious lack of viability of Kucinich, I supported Edwards, who subsequently dropped out. I don't love Obama as much as I felt he was the lesser of two evils at the end. I'd rather have his unknowns compared to the knowns of the Clintons.

He's the only one I half believe and experience says I'm a fool to give him that. We'll find out for sure if we are fortunate enough to get him elected. I think Obama has the potential to shake things up but I wonder if he'll ever go through with it.

[OzarkDem]

86. I liked Kerry better

though he wasn't my first choice. He had more experience.

[Number23]

87. Heck no!

Did you guys love Kerry as much as you love Obama now?

I liked Kerry enough and thought he would have been a very good president. Thoughtful and intelligent. But I am absolutely electrified by Obama.

It's not even a contest to me.

[eShirl]

88. no, I wanted Howard Dean, but Kerry was still a far better choice than Bush