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So this EXTRORDINARY demand for oil only became evident in the last 6 months?

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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 09:41 PM
Original message
So this EXTRORDINARY demand for oil only became evident in the last 6 months?
What EXACTLY changed in that short time frame?

Did everyone in China and India buy a Hummer?

WHO bought the contracts? Where are they going? Who stands to profit?

Aren't these questions that can be answered?
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FirstLight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. All I see is Bushco lining their pockets for a nice retirement next year...
that's the only reason for all this smoke & mirors.

we are screwn,

I am personally wanting to just get my horse & buggy NOW, be the first one on my block to have one!

....though I guess it would piss off the neighbors to let him roam free and graze on their lawns! lol
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. price of oil goes down steadily for 5 months before 2006 election
stays low til 01/07. Dems take over congress promising to do something. Price rises steadily since Jan. 07. Repugs blame Democratic congress. I see a pattern.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
22. I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but this wouldn't be the first time
something like this has been done with commodity prices.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. ain't dat sumpin
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SergeyDovlatov Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. Federal Reserve bailouts and monetizing gov't debt => Inflation
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=755108158

Paul Van Eeden, of Cranberry Capital claims 90% of the oil price increase is monetary inflation.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. He can claim that, but that doesn't follow with the fact oil has surged over the last three months
while gold, supposedly a hedge against monetary inflation, has fallen.
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. NO ONE knows ANYTHING about why oil and gasoline prices are so high.
Producers, refiners, speculators and regulators don't know ANYTHING. Sound familiar; "I don't remember", "I don't recall", "I'm a little fuzzy" and other happy HS and the like. Yep, the criminals are bilking US all, while THEY ALL point fingers at each other. Fraud, conspiracy and extortion rules in the free market criminal economy and financial world.
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I know this much, it doesn't have a god dam thing to do with supply and demand.
Supply is increasing, demand has been decreasing, and price continues to rise.

You're right, no body knows a god dam thing.
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. YOU are ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!
It is ALL ABOUT 'supply and demand'; WE 'supply' a lot of money and THEY keep 'demanding' one hell of a lot MORE!
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VP505 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sure seems to me that
Edited on Tue Jun-10-08 10:17 PM by vpilot
supply and demand referenced to gas price is pure unadulterated BS. When the demand is low as it is now they raise the price, when the demand is high they raise the price, it can't be both ways.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. Americans are gullible and uninformed. That's why "demand" is so high.
They could have said it was because there wasn't as much sugar in this year's crop of light sweet crude, and most 'Murkins would have bought it. The media would have sold it for them no matter what the ridiculous meme.

.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. It has recently become evident because
supply has recently began to fail to meet demand. Do your homework (two years worth for me so far) and you'll begin to get the picture. And it ain't pretty.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. do some more.
http://www.patternliteracy.com/apocalypse,not.html

Hubbert’s US peak prediction was accurate, and the decline initially followed his curve. It has lately deviated significantly (see Figure 1). World production has not followed Hubbert’s curve since the late 1970s (Figure 2). Production levels for other countries have followed Hubbert’s curve in only 8 of 51 cases (Figure 3). (3) Those facts have not bothered the catastrophists...




Demand is down significantly since 12/07, price keeps going up. Why?
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Good Article
Thanks for linking.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. today's talk radio (ed schultz) said demand has actually dropped
3 or 4 percent. people are taking more public trans. and cutting back driving/driving suvs.

this oil bullshit is bullshit.

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gullwing300 Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
12. It is a consumption of extraordinary magnitude.
We are melting.
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live love laugh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
14. Remember those guys from Enron who laughed at the little old ladies they swindled?
Well WE are those little old ladies now and the gas barons are morphs of the Enron execs.

The Enron model has been replicated and now permeates our society.

It's tragic to see it happen while commercials are airing featuring oil company execs telling us that they are working on solutions for this "problem" and that oil is running out. :eyes:
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. You are SO right! We are now all "Grandma Millies"!!!!
And Enron was one of the pioneers in gaming commodity grids and demand.

I think you hav entirely encapsulated the oil situation.

And not just oil.

Folks, it's time to turn in the cable and premium channels, etc. etc.

You are NOT SUPPOSED TO BE PAYING 100's OF DOLLARS A MONTH for a basic utility. TURN IT OFF!!!!

We paid. We were stupid. Now we're smarter. And it wasn't worth shit anyway.
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
16. For reference, please see California's electricity "crisis"
It's an obvious manipulation of the energy market for profit and politics.
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sharesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:26 PM
Response to Original message
17. Oil has recently become an asset class in portfolio management.
Edited on Tue Jun-10-08 11:28 PM by sharesunited
Not just oil companies, but oil itself.

As evidenced by exchange traded funds like symbol USO.

It has thus been made easier than ever before for money to be parked in the commodity as a place to realize investment returns.

If we want to break the backs of the longs, give the Department of Energy the authority to sell future delivery contracts against the strategic petroleum reserve aggressively into rallies. These positions can then be closed out on the resulting declines. Not a single barrel from the reserve actually needs to be delivered out.
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
18. It began with the Caspian Region bust. The oil isn’t there
Following is a post by 'Petrodollar' in the following thread at peakoil.com. This poster seems to know what he is talking about (has written a book on the subject), and what I have previously read about the situation 'plots' with his summary.

I am reproducing the post here because it provides excellent factual information for the coming attacks (when TSHTF next year) on why the Clinton Administration did nothing regarding energy independence.

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic21121-0-asc-60.html

On the one hand I can understand your desire to "blame" Gore for not publicly discussing Peak Oil until recently, but you must put history in context before you draw condemnations. Indeed, a lot more is known today than what was known just 8 to 10 years ago.

The first "authoritative" and analytical report on global peak oil that I am aware of was Petroconsultant's 1995 report “The World’s Oil Supply (1930–2050)” - which predicted that peak oil production would occur in the decade following 2000. (written in part by Dr. Colin Campbell). It is rumored the CIA is or was the largest client of Petroconsultants (now IHS Energy), but it is unknown if this report was well received as far as the veracity of the data - but it is a good question for historians....

Anyhow, the one big caveat in that report I suspect were all the estimates from the mid-1990s until late 2001 that the Caspian Sea region could have up to 200 billion barrels of untapped oil, making it the “oil find of the century" - and push back Peak Oil for 12 to 15 years. I think Enron was "banking" on cheap natural gas from the Caspian and a trans-Afghanistan pipeline to save their company re their huge investment in India...

{For that famous quote about the "oil find of the century" see: Stephen Kinzer, “Pipe Dreams: A Perilous New Contest for the Next Oil Prize,” New York Times, September 24, 1997, IV-1}

Indeed, from 1997-1998 the US government and Taliban were negotiating over a trans-Afghanistan pipeline, but these talks were interrupted when two US Embassies in East Africa were bombed during August 1998. These terrorists’ attacks were attributed to Osama bin Laden, who was a “guest” of the Taliban regime. Former president Clinton subsequently launched a cruise missile attack against targets associated with bin Laden, ordered the negotiations with the Taliban called off, and imposed sanctions against the “rogue regime.” Any exploration and worthwhile extraction of the Caspian oil would have to wait until the landscape in central Asia become more conducive to oil pipelines, etc.

{FYI: According to Jean Charles Brisard and Guillaume Dasquie in the French book, The Forbidden Truth, the Bush administration ignored the UN sanctions that had been imposed upon the Taliban and entered into secret negotiations with this supposedly rogue regime from February 2, 2001, to August 6, 2001. The Taliban were not cooperative, according to the statements of Mr. Naik, Pakistan’s former ambassador. He reported that the US threatened a military option if the Taliban did not acquiesce to Washington’s demands about a proposed pipeline route that had to traverse Afghanistan. But I digress...}

I suspect in the late 1990s and perhaps even as the Bush administration entered office in 2001 that the US government may have deducted that the "vast and untapped" Caspian oil would push Peak Oil somewhat into the future. Here's a sampling of the euphoria that surrounded the Caspian in the late 1990s...

Quote:
I cannot think of a time when we have had a region emerge as suddenly to become as strategically significant as the Caspian.

— Former CEO of Halliburton, Dick Cheney, 1998

However, in December 2001, just after US troops took over the capital of Afghanistan, British Petroleum (BP) announced disappointing Caspian drilling results. According to Dale Allen Pfeiffer, an oil industry analyst and former researcher for Michael Ruppert’s www.fromthewilderness.com website, after three exploratory wells were analyzed, it was reported that the Caspian region contains much less oil than originally reported, although there are vast amounts of natural gas. Also, it was discovered that Caspian oil is of poor quality, with up to 20 percent sulfur content, which makes it expensive to refine and creates huge volumes of environmentally damaging waste products.

In 2002 the consulting group PetroStrategies published a study estimating that the Caspian Basin contained only 8 to 39.4 bb of oil. Shortly after this report was discussed in the petroleum news sources, BP and other Western oil companies began reducing their investment plans in the region...and at that point I think the reality of Peak Oil began to creep into consciousness...

Despite exaggerated claims of the “oil find of the century” and predictions of a 'new Saudi Arabia' outside the Middle East, the State Department announced in November 2002 that “Caspian oil represents 4% of world reserves. It will never dominate the world’s markets.”

Unfortunately, this unexpected realization about the Caspian Sea region had serious implications for the US, India, China, Asia, and Europe, since the estimated amount of available hydrocarbons for industrialized and developing nations was now significantly decreased - by 20% in fact if you believed the 200 b/bl estimate. For me, the arguments regarding PO became more valid and convincing after that point, but it was only 4 years ago that the "Caspian myth" was essentially de-bunked

Bottomline: I seem to recall a much more optimistic assessment of global energy supplies (both oil & gas) up thru 2000 when Clinton & Gore left office. Oil was only $10 a barrel in 1998, and talk of Peak Oil would have labeled Gore or whomever an "alarmist" at the very least, and certainly not helped in any future election based on what happened in 1980. (more on that in a moment)

Did the data in the mid to late 1990s support that Peak Oil was imminent? It's hard to tell until relevant CIA and/or DOE documents are released - at which point you will likely be in your 30s or 40s - assuming such documents will ever be released.

The only US President to really address the issue was Jimmy Carter - and every US politician believes that he lost his re-election bid to Reagan in part due to his "pessimistic" (honest) views on global energy supplies, along with that embarrassing incident re American hostages in Tehran during 1979 and the disastrous/failed rescue mission in 1980 didn't help either. Indeed, 30 years ago Carter stated something that no US politician has dared stated until March 2005 when Rep Roscoe Bartlett began his PO crusade in Congress.

Quote:
We are grossly wasting our energy resources … as though their supply was infinite. We must even face the prospect of changing our basic ways of living. This change will either be made on our own initiative in a planned and rational way, or forced on us with chaos and suffering by the inexorable laws of nature.

— Jimmy Carter, 1976


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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
19. it's either....
....a corporate manufactured mystery of life or adam smiths' invisible middle finger at work....

....let me find my Ouija board and see if I can contact adam....
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KelleyKramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-10-08 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
23. Dude, every single year...

Sometime in the month of May there is an 'unexpected demand' for gas and the price goes up

Every November, there is an 'unexpected demand' for heating oil and the price goes up

Happens every single year

Get it?

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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Don't ya love deregulated energy markets?
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
25. I Would be Fascinated to See Evidence of Price Manipulation
by oil producers. Maybe it has happened.

In the meantime, commodities markets deal in futures and expectations. They are a lot more volatile that a buying and selling goods in the traditional way.

Bubbles happen. Did people blame Bill Gates and Steve Case for stock prices during the internet bubble?
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