Couple confesses to beating 3-year-old boy, Kyle Smith

[faithfulcitizen]

This story has made me cry all day. I can't get it out of my mind. Can anyone explain how human beings could be such horrible monsters? I just don't get it. The neighbors even knew and did not report the abuse. That poor, sweet little soul. :cry:

Couple confesses to beating 3-year-old boy, Kyle Smith
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Prosecutors say a Brooklyn man and woman have confessed to beating a 3-year-old boy who died in their care just blocks from where a malnourished, severely abused girl was killed in a case that spurred calls for reform at the city's child-welfare agency.

Kyle Smith was sodomized, beaten, doused with cold water and forced to do push-ups and march in place as punishment, according to court papers. His numerous injuries included a torn tongue, bruises to his back, buttocks, legs and scrotum, and lacerations inside his anus.

The boy was pronounced dead at a hospital Friday after police were called to the apartment where he lived with Nymeen Cheatham, 30, and her companion Lemar Martin, 25. Cheatham and Martin were arrested Saturday and arraigned Sunday on charges including assault and endangering the welfare of a child.

Jonah Bruno, a spokesman for Brooklyn District Attorney Charles Hynes, said charges against Cheatham and Martin could be upgraded following an investigation.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2008/06/09/2008-06-09_couple_confesses_to_beating_3yearold_boy.html#discuss

[Carnea]

1. Sodomized????? 3 years old

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :nuke:


No death penalty...

"Ferris and Joseph Miller, Cheatham's attorney, argued for their clients to be released on bail Sunday since the top charge was assault"

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :nuke:

"Cheatham and Martin did not have legal custody of Kyle, but he was living with them after his drug-addicted mother gave him up last year."


:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :nuke:

Neighbors told the Daily News that they saw the boy being abused but did not report it to authorities.


:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :nuke:

"Mr. Martin was also charged with marijuana possession." NYT copy
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/nyregion/08baby.html?hp


:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :nuke:


Here is the Happy Couple



No death penalty must stay civilized.

[Pushed To The Left]

4. The adults in that boy's life all completely let him down

Why didn't the neighbors say anything to authorities??? That makes me wonder if these child molesting murderers have some kind of gang affiliation or something that made people afraid to report them. Neither of them should ever get out of prison. While I don't advocate prison rape, I have no sympathy for this son of a bitch if some angry prisoners want to make him their "bitch". Prisoners have little tolerance for child molesters!

[Cronus Protagonist]

51. So sad it brings tears to my eyes

That poor little kid never knew what humanity is all about.

[Dogtown]

10. Horrendous crime, Carnea

Let's reverse this child's agony by by murdering the perpetrators.


Cherry-picking one horrible crime to justify murder-by-the-state is no more than inciting legalized mob-violence.

Shouldn't the execution be public, as a warning to other child rapists? So we can relish our revenge by seeing their terror and pain? That way we can know that the urine spilled was through fear or just loss of control when they die. It's important to have all the facts.

And maybe we should slow it down, a nice bonfire instead of injection?

Perhaps you'd like to be the executioner? Ever killed anyone, Cranea? Did you enjoy it?

No, thanks. I'll stay civilized. Because I know that the death penalty is the ultimate racial profiling in this "just" country of ours. Because I know that the death penalty is *NOT* a deterrent to crime. Because I'm not filled with lust for revenge.

Because it's wrong to kill.

Actual life in prison in a supermax, without any possibility of parole; that's a sentence. They won't victimize children again.

But that won't satisfy your hunger...

[Clark2008]

18. Not me.

If someone sodomized, tortured or killed my child, I'd kill them myself and, yes, I would enjoy it.

Protecting children is NOT rational, nor should it be. It's instinctual, just as a mother lion would sooner eat your head than allow you to harm her cub.

It may be wrong to kill, but it's far worse to roll over and let this continue to occur.

[Dogtown]

21. Agreed, Clark '08, children must be protected

but the premise was the death penalty; hence, governmental sanction.

I want our courts to be rational and not act from "instinct".

Besides, the time for protection is past. Nothing will undo the wrong, and national vengeance tends to become gruesome and degrading to the entire nation.

I have not suggested these people should be allowed to return to society and new victims, I merely object to mindless, "instinctual" murder by our government.

[Pisces]

31. I'm with you. I can say that I would kill the person and not blink an eye thinking about it.

[Mojorabbit]

2. How could

anyone do such a thing to a child?

[AlCzervik]

3. how could that ever be explained? I am not a violent person at all but these stories

really make me beyond angry.

[faithfulcitizen]

5. what's so troublesome to me is they seem to be more frequent.

If you managed to make it out of a childhood like this, you would most likely become a monster too. I hope those 2 have a special place in hell.

[NashVegas]

42. When You Treat People Like Dogs, They Tend to Act Like Dogs

Just my general observation.

[Critters2]

49. A)People are responsible for their own behavior.

Who treated these people "like dogs", and even if they did...not everyone who is abused becomes an abuser.

And B)my dog would never treat anyone--human or animal--the way these "people" treated this child.

I hope they spend the rest of their lives in prison.

[silverojo]

6. If anything, the neighbors are even more guilty

By not reporting the abuse, they might as well have picked up planks and began beating the poor child, themselves.

Bastards!!!!!!!!!!

[Selatius]

7. They did a famous study on the phenomenon of people not reporting crime.

It appears that in high density environments, people who witness a crime in progress would more likely report it if they felt that nobody else would see what transpired. Because the crime happens in an urban setting, the study noted that nearly everyone who witnessed the crime didn't report it because everyone thought everybody else would report it.

[Oak2004]

8. You know, an intelligently designed campaign modeled, say, after the better don't smoke campaigns,

coupled with some sort of token recognition for people who report crimes, could turn the problem around, assuming that study is correct.

[Echo In Light]

14. Dark shades of Kitty Genovese, and Milgram's electric shock experiments

[MrSlayer]

9. Death Sentence.

Kill them now. Not tomorrow, not next week, now. There is no argument that could convince me that these "people" should continue to exist.

[Dogtown]

11. Guilty!!!!!11!!

String 'em up. We don't need a trial, BECAUSE WE'RE ENRAGED!!1!

You're a tough guy, MrSlayer. Will you slay them for us?

Can we watch?


The mob mentality that has responded in this thread makes me ill. I'm surprised the prison-rape enthusiasts haven't shown up yet.


I am not saying that this crime isn't horrible. I'm not saying I don't *HATE* people capable of torturing this poor baby.

I'M NOT RULED BY HATRED. The death penalty is capricious, uncivilized and ineffectual. Try these monsters, lock them away from society, but DO NOT give in to bloodlust. That's the mindset that justifies torture "to save American lives".

[LanternWaste]

19. Or, and I think this is a more likely scenario--

"The mob mentality that has responded in this thread makes me ill..."

Or, and I think this is a more likely scenario-- there is safety in venting a visceral, emotional, knee-jerk reaction on a message board. It's blowing off steam in an environment in which there are no repercussions.

I think if you discussed this after a cool-down period with those who "make you ill", you'd realize there is quite a bit more deliberation given to those opinions of ours were they known to be actually acted on.

[Dogtown]

25. Thank you for your condescending superiority!

Venting. Yes it's safer than allowing that kneejerk to slaughter another human, but luckily "they" don't have access to a victim.

Or they could, in their sanctimonious and mindless hatred, become that mob.

There are countless examples of the "cooldown" coming too late, the victim of the mob had already been hanged. Frequently for nothing more than sating the fury of the mob. Scaping the goat.

I didn't realize that this forum existed for the spewing of hate and blowing off steam. I thought we'd gathered to rationally discuss the wrongs of our society and the means, as *progressive, thinking* adults of correcting those wrongs. Wrongs such as the death penalty, handed out to appease the angriest members of society.

Apparently you feel DU is designed to safely vent our individual, self-serving rage, without consequences. Collective scream therapy. Perhaps we need an "outrage" forum so the extremely angry can meet and howl for blood without disturbing the rest of us who would rather look for ways to properly deal with the death of this child and those who will surely follow. The guilty in this case must not be allowed to victimize another child, but there are many more that need to be protected from other rapists. Public sacrifice of the murderers in this case will not solve the problem, it will only fuel our ugliest impulses.

I am for the rule of law and dispassionate judgment of lawbreakers. Mindless rage does, indeed, make me ill.

[LanternWaste]

36. I simply supplied you with an alternative

I suppose if you think that most of DU'ers would become part of your imaginary mob, then you simply don't know many people here very well.

And no-- I don't think that DU was designed for venting or therapy-- but it is an added bonus.

Also, I simply supplied you with an alternative-- that you perceived it to be condescending is on your head and yours alone... one will interpret how one will interpret I suppose.

"Mindless rage does, indeed, make me ill." Wow. Gee. You are special and unique. And people like you because of that (see-- that was condescending...)

Insults are funny things-- they can be found anywhere a person looks for them-- even in places where they don't exist.

But stick around, you may get to know us better and learn to differentiate between a person sound opinions and that same person's emotional reactions to a horrible story.

[Dogtown]

37. Oh, I'm not insulted.

You're just wrong. I don't take that personally.

Perhaps you need a bit of experience to filter that warm esteem you have for folks. Members of a mob are usually decent people. Until they let their emotions and a slickly delivered harangue transform them.

Please don't pretend that I think the people in this arena are likely to commit violence against these particular deviants or any other. Expression of non-progressive mob mentality, such as a desire for "Instant Death Penalties", is a perversion of the ideals we are supposed to espouse. That disturbs me deeply.

At the very least it shows us to be hypocrites and foolish pawns, easily manipulated by visceral prodding. It belies our collective purpose. It denies our ability to affect change.

I think your side-bennies are just irresponsible twistings of the uses of this meeting-hall for your own entertainment. "Discussion" and "venting" serve cross-purposes. Venting may allow you to self-actualize, but it hasn't ever solved a problem. Venting isn't inappropriate in the Lounge. Annoying as any tantrum, but not inappropriate.

"But stick around, you may get to know us better and learn to differentiate between a person sound opinions and that same person's emotional reactions to a horrible story." Again, you patronize, but to no avail. All you have is excuses for bad behavior.

I'll stick around, but doubt I'll learn much I don't already know about violence and those who incite it. Maybe someone *without* a personal agenda will read these posts and recognize folly by seeing people called out for chanting the killmantra. Maybe some youngster won't fall prey to the idea that this kind of fury is appropriate. Or that this is our purpose.

[gatorboy]

40. Do you have kids?

What would you do if it was one of them?

[Dogtown]

44. I did

He's 34 now. He was never abused as a child.

gatorboy, to protect him from harm of that degree, I would have killed.

That isn't what's been proposed here. The bestial responses I've addressed in this thread propose everything from vigilantism to automatic and immediate death sentence without trial. I support none of those things.

Had my son been brutalized and killed, I would do everything within the law to ensure the killer was brought to justice.

I'm civilized. I would endure my own sorrow to the best of my ability, but I wouldn't kill in revenge.

Neither would you.

It's uncivilized. It's wrong. It isn't tolerated by society.

Also, it's very, very hard to kill a man. Much harder than J.P. Everyman thinks it is.

[Dorian Gray]

62. Rationally discussing the wrongs of our society

includes being angry at the HUGE injustice that was perpetrated against a very innocent, young three year old. That something like that could occur under the noses of people and not be reported is a huge statement about the state of our society.

[Dorian Gray]

61. You are right...

My first reaction was that I hope that they suffer as much as they made that poor little boy suffer. I am still so freaking angry about this story, especially since it happened pretty close to where I live. I want them to hurt. (And thank God I am not responsible for their punishment, as I don't think that I could possibly pass a fair and just punishment out to them feeling the anger that I do.)

People are angry about this and venting here. It's a natural reaction to such a horrific story, and it is always stories such as these that make me question my anti-death penalty position. I have a real and visceral reaction filled with way too much hatred when I hear about a three year old being raped, abused and killed. I can't help that is my reaction, it just is. And I am thankful that there are people with cooler heads than mine who were responsible for arresting and prosecuting these monsters.

[unauno]

20. You are not ruled by bloodlust?

Either am I. I don't think that most people sit by their computer in a state of murderous frenzy, ready to strike a fatal blow at any moment.
What I think, though, is the agony this innocent child suffered is worth death to the two guilty people who caused it.
This little boy's suffering is so very easy for you to discount and ignore because you didn't have to suffer it. If you were being tortured and raped and beaten and in horrible agony right now, and two people way bigger than you were torturing you, your mind would be on fire, and the only thought in it would be "please make this stop."
I have an idea. Go out and let two bigger people anally rape you, tear your tongue, make you march in place, do exactly what these people did to a 3 year old, and then cooly discuss the merits of the death penalty vs life in prison on the internet. You will then have the emotional strength and hands on knowledge to civilly discuss your torture and rape.
In case you don't know, that's sarcasm, the lowest form of wit. Really, it's so easy to forgive people and say their lives are worth so much if they haven't anally raped and tortured YOU to death!

[Dogtown]

22. Ridiculously emotional

Do you know me? My history? Then your outrage is imaginary.

Perhaps I've been anally raped. Unless you know who I am and what I've personally endured, your post is merely a scream born of your own frustration, and yes, bloodlust.

Courts make errors. We have no idea how many folks have endured this most final indignity in a rush to judgment.

Keep your infantile rage to yourself and please, don't patronize me or appeal to my basest emotions. You could also try to actually think before vomiting this filth onto the internet. I never suggested forgiving these people. I just don't want emotionally charged mob mentality to become the rule of law.

Yes, you have displayed the lowest form of wit; of intelligence itself.

I have an idea. Why don't you personally hunt these two down and kill them yourself, since you feel that's what's necessary. Avenge this helpless child with your righteous fury...

Weakling. Too weak to live your conviction.

[unauno]

38. Yes, emotions are quite uncomfortable to you, it seems!

Not to bother! The two who killed the 3 year old seem not to be bothered by their emotions,
either.

[Dogtown]

39. What an ugly thing to say!

Yes, you *are* ruled by your emotions.

I have them, but make decisions, especially those concerning death, based on reason. You obviously don't understand your emotions any better than you understand the emotional nature of monsters. These people most surely revelled in their emotions, plus those displayed by their victim as they tortured him.

You'd *enjoy* seeing them squirm, no doubt. How very righteous! And how disturbingly similar to those you hate.

[unauno]

45. Do you know me? My history? Then your outrage is imaginary.

Lifted from your post!

[Dogtown]

46. Borrowed

but incorrectly applied.

The quote you purloined was in response to the suggestion that I needed to be ass-raped. I'm pretty sure you have no knowledge of the blossoming of my rectal rose.

Your ill-aimed riposte was, however, meant to condemn me for judging your emotional inadequacy, yet you had just displayed your rather messily uncontrolled emotions by wishing an assraping upon me.



You have no more understanding of the emotionality of brutality than you do of rhetoric. You tried to equate my rationality with these horrible people by supposing they are as rational as I am, yet you are the one who (like them) desperately wants to hurt someone. I don't need your case history to recognize the reactionary nature of your personality; you're posting for all to see.

[unauno]

59. Wrong on all counts.

I was using sarcasm, and even said it was sarcasm.

You can dish it out, but you can't take it.

All done here, as, from the headline, he couple confessed.

See, I am discusing the story.

You have gone on this whole thread telling everyone their opinion on the death penalty is wrong!

Everyone has a right to their opinion. And 3 year olds in America have the right to not be killed.

[Dogtown]

64. Folks have the right to opinions

for now. I fear that might not be the case much longer.

Still, if they voice them in public on a discussion forum they just might get called on it. Especially if they are posting in a progressive forum and espousing killing people. Reread the posts, the ones I objected to were those in which the poster *personally* expressed the desire to do the killing.

Posturing. Pure bullshit. Most of those folks, armed with a knife and facing this murderer, even if he was restrained, would *not* be capable of cutting his throat.

The death penalty is wrong. With minimal research, you can find numerous instances where the executed was innocent. Where's your outrage at that injustice? It would still be an injustice to lock them up for life, at least they could hope the truth will set them free eventually. Can not make them undead, though.

Oops!

BTW, confessions are generally useless in court. It sounds good in the paper, but judges know that criminals seldom confess willingly. I don't know why these people confessed, but I do wonder. It isn't very smart and they can't *make* you confess. Can they?

People have confessed because they were retarded and didn't know any better.
People have confessed because they were waterboarded.
People have confessed because they were intimidated by the police.
People have confessed because they have been beaten by the police.
People have confessed, to crimes they didn't commit, just for the recognition.
People have confessed (Miranda V AZ) because they thought they had to.

People have confessed, oh, wait, the cops just *said* they confessed.

And, yes, people have confessed because they were guilty. Just not very often.

Spontaneous "oral admissions", now, that's golden in court: "You're under arrest.", "You got me, copper, this ain't my yacht..." *That's* pretty undefendable in court.


That's why we have trials. PLEASE don't try to turn that on me, I'm NOT apologizing for the confessees. Quite probably they're guilty. I'm just viewing the situation dispassionately, that is to say, without allowing emotions to cloud my judgment.

Your sophomoric taunt that I can dish it out but not take it is no less clumsy than your rant about rights. I "took" your attack and threw it back at you; you were wrong in substance and expressed yourself poorly. Verbal jujitsu. I explained your mistake, but I'm afraid the display was unclear to you. You still don't understand the distinction, do you?

I'd love to prop you up by continuing this discussion, but I need to go. Feel free to post one of those snappy rejoinders, though.

[Teaser]

29. Well I am ruled by bloodlust

and I'm totally cool with that.

[Dogtown]

41. Liar

At least I hope so.

But you can prove me wrong. *ACT*! If you're comfortable with your brutality, dispatch these creatures.

KILL THEM!!!

:eyes:

[Critters2]

52. I respect your honesty. nt

[Pisces]

33. I would be able to forgive someone who did this to me sooner than someone who harmed my child.

I have a child almost 3 and without a doubt and without hesitation I would kill the SOB who did this to my child.

[Teaser]

28. Yeah, I'd kill them in a second.

if I caught them in the act.

There wouldn't be pieces left.

[faithfulcitizen]

35. If only he would have had a passionate mob to save him.

[MrSlayer]

65. I would be happy to slay them for the benefit of society.

Barbaric acts deserve "barbaric" punishments. I'm not ruled by hatred either, I'm quite easy going. However, by raping and murdering children you have forfeited your right to live, even among criminals. They deserve death for their heinous actions. Giving them three hots and a cot for the rest of their lives on my dime is not justice. Put them in the same place their victims reside, in the grave. I would settle for throwing them into gen-pop because the problem would take care of itself there but that isn't what happens to these scumbags, they get PC. I disagree with you completely.

[ulysses]

12. "Kill them now. Not tomorrow, not next week, now."

Someone remind me of this post the next time a DP advocate tries to claim that it isn't legalized mob "justice".

[Phillycat]

23. I'm with you.

And anyone can go ahead and call me bloodthirsty. I don't give a fuck. They don't deserve to be alive.

[Dogtown]

34. Respectfully, janesez

I've admired most of your posts, but not this one.

Who gets to decide which crimes are worthy of vengeance. Do you want that job?

Who will you pick? Child rapists, for sure. They anger all of us.

How about rapists of adults? We hate them, too.

So, women-rapers. How about man-rapers? Happens more often than we think, unreported in greater proportion than with female victims. And men aren't as helpless as women. But hell, rape is rape. Kill them.

And Weinie-whackers!! We hate guys who show children their dicks, so let's kill them. Damn Onanists!

Kill them.

Meth dealers? All dealers?

janesez, I don't think you're that person. I don't think you'd be the one to cut their throats, hook up the electrodes, pull the trigger. You say "kill them", but you wouldn't. You wouldn't kill them.

It isn't easy to do. You live with it, afterward. Please don't be so glib, but expect others to do your killing for you.

[Phillycat]

47. Yes I would and no I'm not glib.

I was abused in a similar way to this child, and yes I would kill the perpetrators. Please don't assume I haven't thought deeply enough about this issue.

[Dogtown]

48. I'd rather not air my personal history online.

Perhaps we share similar histories.

As I mentioned, I am familiar with your posts, thouh I have not posted enough myself for you to share my regard. I certainly do believe you are a thoughtful person, and I apologize for appearing to minimize that. Such was not my intent.

For what it's worth, I deeply sympathise with your pain. As I abhor the horror the child in the OP experienced. Justifiable rage not withstanding, I still do not believe you are a killer. I know you're capable of hatred, as I am. I *do* hate the people murdered this boy. Acting on that rage is not as easy as the contemplation, though. That's why we employ executioners rather than allowing the victims to punish the condemned.

I do not support the death penalty. No matter how many people "deserve" to die, many who don't have been and will be killed by our (in)judicial system. Many for no greater sin than being cosmetically different.

[Phillycat]

50. I agree with that.

But I have to disagree that the death penalty has no place in a civilized society. It's one of the areas in which I'm not particularly progressive. I do think every possibility should be exhausted to prove as conclusively as humanly possible that the person is guilty. At that point, I do believe there are certain crimes (and yes, you're right, it's subjective but society can agree together on what it will and will not tolerate, that's how cultures form) that are worthy of death.

Will there be margin for error? Yes. Will some people perceive the death penalty as vengeance, as playing god, or argue that it's not a deterrent? Yes. But the whole "It's better to let 10 guilty men go than kill one innocent man" argument doesn't wash with me. Most certainly, there have been atrocities of racism committed through the death penalty. The entire system needs to be revamped and revisited. But I still think it has a place. We will have to agree to disagree. But I do appreciate your respectfulness in disagreeing, and your compliments about my posting history. :) I'll keep my eye out for you!

[Dogtown]

55. Cool!

and thanks. I like civil disagreement.

:hi:

[mnhtnbb]

13. We have a local case in NC went to jury yesterday: Adoptive mom killed 4 year old son

by wrapping him in a blanket so tightly he suffocated. She also is one of these
right wing Christian types that believes in disciplining kids by beating them with PVC pipe.

The woman and her siblings were victims of horrible child abuse themselves, but it's not
an excuse for continuing the abuse.

She made her kids eat their own feces and vomit.

But she's a Christian, right? God must approve. These people are really, really, sick. They shouldn't be allowed to have kids or be near kids, IMO.

http://www.newsobserver.com/print/wednesday/city_state/story/1103748.html

[Midlodemocrat]

32. Jeez, that is horrible.

I'll never understand how people can mistreat their own children, or anyone else's for that matter. :cry:

[malaise]

15. Damn adult humans are evil

Sick fuggs. Throw away the keys and unleash them to the prison population.

[Bettie]

16. Poor baby, how can people do this stuff?

What is wrong with some people?

I have seen calls in this thread for execution for these two people and while I understand (and feel) the visceral reaction, I recognize that it is the desire for vengeance rather than justice.

We can't teach our kids that killing is not OK by letting the state kill, that is just wrong.

However, these animals should NEVER get out of prison. They have shown that they are unable to participate in civilized society.

[LanternWaste]

17. I simply can't wrap my head around...

I simply can't wrap my head around the thought processes of parents like this. Brains which seem to devolve into nothing more than a consistent attempt to indulge and satisfy the self at the expense of others. It's just... alien to me.

(thank God TX CPS isn't mentioned or involved, or we'd have posters defending the couple, and accusing the authorites of genocide...)

[blondeatlast]

30. Sadly, you are right; why is it so hard to comprehend that government acts in society's interest

when it comes to protecting the young, small, infirm?

That poor little thing--how many loving parents would have gladly taken him as their own?

:cry:

[MrCoffee]

24. Rest in peace, Kyle Smith. I'm sorry for the pain you suffered in your too-short life.

[Gemini Cat]

26. Agree.

No child should go through abuse.
RIP little boy.

[Teaser]

27. I read stuff like this and I reach for my sword

goddammit.

[Dogtown]

43. OK, we get it Tease!

You're a dangerous man. A mighty warrior. Apparently, an eater-of-flesh.


A killer.

Actually, the male perp looks like a seriously bad man. I think you've made the mistaken assumption of a naive man: because this victim was weak, this person would run from such a strong man as you. The fact is, this guy is probably an abuse-victim himself and is very comfortable with fighting. Before you decide to punish them by Ritual Combat, remember that you quit after you got your Orange Belt, and that was 13 years ago...

[Teaser]

53. oh dear , I seem to have upset the troll

Dangerous, me? Not any more than anyone else.

[Dogtown]

54. I was waiting

for you to get to that. Yep, most trolls oppose capitol punishment. It's our dearest concern after subjugation of the masses.

I won't bother tagging that statement, I doubt you're so dull that you fail to recognize my intent.

Whenever someone takes a drubbing here, sooner or later he'll lash out with that "troll" nonsense. You're a loser, so I'm a "troll"...



If you don't want to get called out for butch bullshit, keep your sword in your pants. I don't think you're dangerous. I don't think you've actually done anything violent since 3rd grade.

I think you're posing for the crowd. Perhaps others were impressed...

[Teaser]

56. Tinky, I ain't any more dangerous than any other person.

You seem to be implying otherwise. The most "dangerous" thing I said was that if I caught the guy in the act, I'd willingly kill him. Frankly, I think that's true of most people: they caught someone doing this to a kid, they'd intervene. No scruples, no compunctions. I also said I don't have a problem with bloodlust. And frankly, I don't think most people do either. Humans are bloodthirsty creatures. I also said his conduct made me want to reach for my sword. It does. That you're constructing a narrative and complete psychological profile out of three posts isn't my problem.

Secondly, I don't know from violence, but I am afraid I do have to end the lives of things, almost every day. Just today I administered drug to a subject, made incisions on either side of its vertebral column, took some rongeurs and removed arches from several of the lumbar vertebrae and then cauterized and removed the dura mater from the underlying tissue. After a series of perfunctory experiments that will interest very few, I sacced the subject and placed it in a freezer. A sad duty to be sure. But one that has its rewards in that it helps more than it hurts. But I guess my intellect is far too impoverished to continue in this line of work, as you've been very clear to me on this matter. I'll look for employment elsewhere immediately. Although I do find that a Ph.D. does make employment in fields outside my main subject area a bit daunting.

So, chuckles, think what you want about "drubbing" me, I'm sure you will anyway, as you've mustered all your most powerful arguments to convince yourself thereof. When the internet gods come down and declare that you've won the thread, I'll be sure to concede.

[Dogtown]

57. " Well I am ruled by bloodlust and I'm totally cool with that."

3 terse posts, full of venom.

If you don't wish to be tarbrushed for the violence of your posts, perhaps you should expand on them a bit. A humanitarian caveat, as it were.

Yours is indeed "bigger", I can only brag about my BA in medieval literature. So I won't.

So you're a butcher with a prefix. I don't doubt that you do useful work. I don't see that it prepares you for an act of violence so your chest-drumming is still a bit hollow. Again, a serious bad man, such as the perp you've not-quite threatened, would make you cry. If you witnessed such a crime you wouldn't be capable, or even seriously inclined, to dissect the badguy as you brag. I hope you'd call the police. When you finished puking. Actual violence isn't as clean and detached as a laboratory exercise.

Sorry Dr. Dissector, real folks are not that brave. It takes experience, supreme confidence, and reliable backup to face down a demented assraping killer. A metaphorical sword and suppressed rage won't accomplish it.

The sword is a metaphor, I hope...

As to your verbal thrashing, I merely observed that the "troll" gambit is a prima facea admission of defeat. If you had a more compelling commentary, perhaps you should have displayed it. I'm not counting coup on you, I have no desire to "win". I would hope for some cognizant argument to bolster your point: lacking that, you have nothing meaningful to add to this discourse.

I merely observed some Mittyanesque boasting in action and found it repugnant. If you want to claim victory, that's moxnix to Dogtown.

"Tinky"? I don't get it. Likewise with "chuckles". My taunts were at lest pertinent. You are merely "im".

[Teaser]

58. Ok, coolio, consider me thoroughly chastened

Oh, I'm certainly full of venom. I've never denied that. And I don't feel particularly tarred by any of your posts, so I don't feel a need to be more "careful" in my posting. I post about what I like based on how I feel at the moment. Your perception as to my intent doesn't matter so much, although for the moment I'm rather enjoying this little exercise and wouldn't mind continuing for a bit.

"Sorry Dr. Dissector, real folks are not that brave."

First off, my lab nickname is "chainsaw". Because I'm not a graceful cutter, but I am fast and efficient. I do leave a mess though. "Dr. Dissector" does me far too much justice. I'm not a skilled surgeon by any means. But "butcher with a prefix", I'll cop to that. I even rather like it, it's got a certain style to it.

Secondly, real folks are just that brave. Especially where children are involved. Everyday. I've met a woman who charged into burning row homes to save babies, and kept going even as the skin and muscle sloughed off their arms, leaving her with near useless levers of scar tissue and bone. But she succeeded. And I know a teen paralyzed from the waist down after being shot rescuing his little sister from an attempted rape. But he saved her.

Real people do this shit. Real people win.

[Dogtown]

60. Anecdotes

I've a few myself. They aren't as pretty as yours. But just as unprovable, so I won't bother.

Samuel Clemens wrote a very interesting essay about the heroics of mothers. Of course, he was without honorific, also.

I will point out, anecdotally, that the mother in question apparently proffered the rose, rather than protecting her infant. Real people sometimes do this shit. Do you think she "won"?

You misunderstood my reference to butchering. I meant to say that carving on folks that have signed a waiver and that are paying for the service is *not* the same as taking the life of a desperate and psychotic killer who is expressing his reluctance to allow you to proceed. Pardon my cynicism, but from *my* experience, people with noble aspirations are often disappointed in themselves when facing the sure knowledge that a less-than-honorable but capably violent man is going to do them irreparable damage. It is absolutely not a reader's digest experience.

You can literally smell the fear on people. Not your own, but the fear of others when facing extreme danger.

I'm not claiming that nobility, sacrifice and incredible bravery never happen. What I'm saying is talk does not a killer make, and boastful folk making claims about what they would do seldom *know* what they'd do until they have to do it.

Unless you have experience and hopefully a buttload of training, you simply can not comprehend the true nature of fear in the face of brute violence. It's very shocking, and watching victims wheeled into ER is not the same as hearing the screams and suddenly realizing it's you. It's humbling.

But you'd know that if you knew your own gauge. Solely from your posts, I suspect you've done little violence in your life and never been victimized. That is an assumption, of course. You could have the Victoria Cross for all I know.

You *could* be a serial killer intent on actually seeking vigilante justice for this poor kid.

I just really don't think so. I think you're basically an honest joe, smarter than most, who would like to do the right thing in a tough spot. Maybe you would, maybe you'd crack. I hope you need never find out. At the end of the day, bravery doesn't pay the mortgage; it's not even a sure indicator of what you'll do next time.

That's all supposition, of course.



I'll have to surrender the field, the dogs need feeding. It's been fun. You ambushed me pretty well with your original laconic posts, then proved to be (at least metaphorically) a worthy fencer.

See you around.

[Sequoia]

63. Torture them, flay them, hold their feet to the fire.

Why do I read these things. Poor little baby.