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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 04:19 PM
Original message
Righteous Indignation
Over a significant part of time, perhaps 2 years or so, I have felt an undercurrent at DU that has been disturbing, though prevalent.

The Democratic Party has always been, in my memory at least, a party of inclusion, of many different creeds, persuasions and philosophies. And that's great, because it makes diversity interesting and intriguing, and allows us to consider the opinions of many that we would otherwise never have been exposed to.

In fact, many old ideas have been challenged, and along the way, some inherent opinions have changed us in ways that speak well of this diversity, and leave us open to many more, new areas of belief.

Speaking for myself, I have found new ways of looking at some things, and this makes me assume less, and respond in a more positive light than I might have without knowledge of a subject.

But sometimes, it goes overboard. And that's where I raise an objection.

First, let me say that for the most part, I'm pretty tolerant. Unless you stick a label on your forehead that says "I'm a fundie and I belief what my bible says completely," you're okay with me. I don't preach, I don't care and I know that what you might believe is just as valid as anything I might believe in. And that's how it should be. It's how I think as a liberal, and that's the way it should be for anyone and everyone. I'm not a conservative, who doesn't believe others have just as good opinions as myself, and I certainly know that every single one of us is as different as every single one of us. Our opinions are reached from what we have experienced, seen and learned over our lifetimes, and even then, we can change our minds just reviewing something in retrospect, or learning a new fact along the way.

Nothing is static in the real world. And that's where the difference comes between liberalism and conservatism. The conservative sees change and rejects it--the liberal sees change, and not only accepts it, but knows that everything we think, do or say is mutable and inexorable.

But despite all this, some people hold some things too close to the vest, and don't want to let go of some closely held beliefs, no matter how irrational those things might be. It's a product of our own environment, of an emotional reaction to an event or circumstance in our lives that lingers on, long after the reason and rationale for it has disappeared.

But it also leads us to another path--one that is fraught with assumptions, falsehoods and intolerance. Regardless, it's part of who we are. We might not think we're intolerant, but we are, though it might not be a matter of black or white, religion or atheism or any one of a dozen other noticeable or blatant prejudices--it could simply be a pride or closely held belief in some aspect of life that has served us well through the years, and one in which we have tremendous faith. It's so ingrained in our being and our life that when someone challenges that belief, even if they don't realize they're doing such a thing, we react negatively to it, and take umbrage at someone challenging a part of ourselves.

I've noticed that DU has been showing a lot of righteous indignation for awhile now, and that we don't use the gentle "IMO" or "IMHO" in discussions as much anymore--instead, we launch an attack against someone who is not privy to our special knowledge or sensibilities, castigating them for their opinions or actions as though that person's opinion didn't count at all. For awhile now, it hasn't been such a huge deal because the primaries war was all consuming, and the major salvos brought on by that battle made everything look insignificant in comparison. Many of us who lost a promising candidate early in the war looked on in dismay as the feud divided DU into different camps, and the irony that General Discussion-Politics, a major part of a POLITICAL website, was filled with pettiness, flames and outright nastiness did not escape many of us.

But now I feel bruised, battered and afraid. The thought that opinions I might have or hold are politically incorrect, are counter-productive in some fashion, or are slightly off-center from the opinions of others, makes me wonder how "liberal" some of the people at DU are in general. We're all different people, we are supposed to know and understand that and treat other people with some sense of propriety without judging them. What do I know of war, except from those who have fought in one? What do I know of physics, other than knowing I don't know enough? What do I know of abortion, since I've never had one of my own? People here at DU HAVE experienced these things, and I'm lucky I found a place where discussions of these things are not condemned, and where I can "meet" others who have experienced them. Rather than knowledge being a sin, knowledge is and can be invaluable, touching and gained. Along the way, we're supposed to pick up wisdom as well, though sometimes I fear for this being a reality to many.

If I say or do something which is offensive to someone, I don't want someone to say to me that I'm an inferior human being being because of it. Having someone tell me outright that what I say shouldn't matter because I believe or do something that might not be the same to everyone, telling me that I'm fucked up for believing that way isn't going to make me change my mind to suit others. As a matter of fact, it makes me more vehement about my choices. Discussing the matter with me, trying to show me a different opinion through a learning experience, is more likely to make me look at it with a fresher eye and influence my opinion. I know how to learn, and I have been able to change my stance in the past, as long as a reasonable argument is made, and not a flame telling me I'm no longer a decent human being because I believe the way I do about something.

I know there is likely never going to be a true "peace" here at DU, and I understand that. Too many people, too many differences of opinion, too many different personalities all under one tent called "liberalism" and "Democratic." Many of us came here to escape from a world gone mad when the idiot in the wh was enthroned, to find sanctuary and respite. And that's all we needed. And frankly, I found more along the way. I found people who made me laugh, made me want to cry, brought me topics of discussion which I had to ponder deeply, and some who challenged me to be better because of their example. But just as well, there have been others who have brought humiliation, pain, and despair with their words, and who might as well not call themselves liberals because they have shown as much intolerance as those who believe an opposing philosophy.

We can't be "all that we can be" if we can't prevent ourselves from judging others as we prefer not to be judged ourselves. What good is it to call ourselves liberals if we can't embrace the diversity that entails? How wise are we if we believe ourselves superior to others? I know I'm not perfect, and I know no one else is either. I have my moments of both clarity and ignorance, and while I want to be less ignorant at times, throwing me into the flames of discord isn't going to do it. Righteous indignation be damned--none of us can consider ourselves perfect, and that's all I'm saying.
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MO_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well said, hyphenate!


:loveya:



:dem:
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thank you!
I'm glad I'm not just talking to the wall, though it feels that way sometimes. :)
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Suich Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. K & R!
Thank you!

:hi:
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. hi, there!
:hi: :)
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. A gentle kick before I go to bed
:kick:

Perhaps no one cares about the topic matter--I just wanted to make sure those who did saw it. goodnight.
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Karl_Bonner_1982 Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm no innocent
A lot of us think like this: "there's a lot of shit in this world, and it's really pissing me off....Eureka! I found the answer!"

"What do mean, I'm wrong? What? You don't even agree with me that there's a problem at all? You jerk! You are an ENEMY of justice and humanity!"

Believe me, I get these kind of grumbling thoughts on almost daily basis. We are not saints. The big problem is that we are so frustrated because - well, the right wing has had more than its fair share of influence and say-so for far too long. It's time for the left to get a turn at the wheel. We just need to be sure we don't destroy our chance because of uncontrollable anger and vengeance.
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. There have been a few times
when I believe the left has been too tolerant of the crap the right-wing has put us through. One only look at all the harm that was done to President Clinton, and compare it to how little was done to the Bush administration, and anyone can tell how lopsided things really are. President Clinton got a blow-job from a willing adult, and might have lied under oath, but let's face it, for this administration and its members lying under oath is de rigueur. And yet they still occupy the white house, the vp white house, the supreme court, the house of representatives, the senate, and every single chair of the cabinet.

The only way that can be changed is if the average joe on the streets learns critical thinking skills, and begins to get his/her news from truly objective news sources, instead of the mainstream media.
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MedleyMisty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. I know what it's like to have a post that you put thought and effort into ignored, so here's a reply
and a kick.

I know that part of it for me is that I just cannot wrap my head around "the way we were raised". It's not an excuse or an explanation to me. It's a cop out. Like "Oh, I don't have to take responsibility for being prejudiced because it was forced on me from outside and I was helpless against it. Don't hate on me just because I hate on other people, you prejudiced jerk."

Instead of a just world fallacy, I think I tend to believe in a free mind fallacy - I know that I can be rather harsh because I don't give people any slack for what their parents or preacher or TV told them or what culture they grew up in. Like I said, I tend to believe that humans have free minds.

Which is why I became very disillusioned when I found my first message board and saw what was really behind other people's eyes. And I think that now over a decade later I have finally somewhat processed it and am now searching for a way to understand this idea of an enslaved mind. And trying to figure out how to help it out of its chains without cursing it for getting chained in the first place.
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hyphenate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Some people have a better understanding
of who they are that transcends emotional or mental obstacles, others don't. Those who have been abused as children carry scars with them the rest of their lives, in some ways forcing them to be victims while others can overcome all but the greatest of harms perpetrated on them.

In my own life, I have seen my sister, who was molested as a child, keep going back to guys who have been abusive and jerks. My brother in law was very nearly tortured by his father while he was still a child, and he drank and smoked himself into an early grave at 44 years of age.

The old axiom of nurture or nature is a double sided sword--while a lot of good can come from each of us, it is also true that there is a fragility that can leave us irretrievably harmed as well.

It's not so much an excuse, but an explanation of why some people fare better than others. Some people can become mollycoddled with a solicitous upbringing, while others gain self respect and confidence. Still others can grow up tough, defiant (in a good way) and persistent with a harder upbringing, while for others it makes them afraid of their own shadow.

No one can say what is right or what is wrong. We certainly can't know ourselves what path we will take when we're older--it's only when you get to middle-age or beyond that you can look back and glean some wisdom of which path you followed and why. It's one of the ways we acknowledge regrets, and the "if only's" along the way.
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