Katie Couric: sexism in society & media, the minor footnote to the Democratic primary

[frickaline]

It is depressing how little coverage this received during the primary and that it took a youtube video to convince most that there was any media bias against Clinton.

Katie is right about the "footnote" status of sexism. It simply isn't given recognition as a problem and tends to be described as unwarranted complaints or better yet, "shrill, whining".

Until sexism receives proper media coverage, a female candidate for POTUS may not be viable.

Video here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=4174053n

Katie Couric: Sexist Media Hurt Hillary Clinton's Chances

Adding to her comments last night in Washington — "that Sen. Clinton received some of the most unfair, hostile coverage I've ever seen" — Katie Couric has filmed a Keith Olbermann-style special commentary (called ner "Notebook") slamming the media for its sexist coverage of Hillary Clinton and claiming that the sexist coverage hurt her chances at becoming the Democratic party nominee. The Notebook will air tonight on CBS affiliates and on CBS radio, and will live on CBSNews.com.

"One of the great lessons of campaign is the continued and accepted role of sexism in American life, particularly in the media....It isn't just Hillary Clinton who needs to learn a lesson from this primary season — it's all the people who crossed the line, and all the women and men who let them get away with it."

Couric's reference in the video to "mainstream pundits saying they instinctively cross their legs at the mention of her name" is specifically about Tucker Carlson, who often made such a claim while still on MSNBC during the campaign.

Last night, without naming names, Couric seemed to excoriate both MSNBC's Chris Matthews — who has come under fire for sexist remarks against Hillary Clinton — and NBC's Lee Cowan — who reportedly said he found it "hard to stay objective" covering Obama — saying, "That's your job...find another line of work." Matthews notoriously announced that he "felt thrill going up leg" while listening to Obama speak, and was forced to apologize for sexist remarks against Clinton in January.

HuffPo article link here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/11/katie-couric-sexist-media_n_106595.html

[BeyondGeography]

1. Meantime, all the boy candidates were afraid to attack the girl

lest they give her a chance to play victim and inflame her supporters.

Hillary's gender was a huge net positive for her. Katie left that part out.

[seabeyond]

5. when i hear hillary it is just like hearing wife tell me to take out garbage

and so much more was said on national tv when talking about hillary.

that is a sexist comment

these "men" stood on tv and dissed their wives. how offensive they were and they felt there was no repercussion to being so outrageously, pathetically insulting in their comments.

there needs to be a repercussion for someone being paid to be on tv making such negative comments towards a whole gender

i think hillary used gender when it behooved her and i didnt like it. but i wont pretend that what the media did or other republicans did wasnt sexism at the expense of the whole gender. it isnt honest.

[BeyondGeography]

8. She got some of that, and Obama was compelled to persuade people that he wasn't a scary black man

Key difference: One side whined and manipulated, the other just played ball.

[frickaline]

11. "whined"

yes, so I hear. they were shrill too, no?

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

15. the key is when it was black comments i called bullshit, when sexism i call bullshit

that is the key. i dont pretend it wasn't there.

i am not talking about hillary, or her handling or her candidacy. i am talking about a bunch of asshole males that get on tv and diss all women and NOT being called on it.

hey, like you are doing

we can make them at least suffer a repercussion without walking away from our candidate. that is like the christians and republicans that knew saying all liberals not christian or immoral was wrong. they knew it was offensive. but they pretended it didn't happen or ignored or dismissed cause they felt if they stood up to their people then it meant they couldn't support bush. that is bullshit. what happened was wrong and should be called or a coward.

[NashVegas]

18. "I understand that Senator Clinton .... periodically"

when she’s feeling down, launches attacks as a way of trying to boost her appeal."

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

40. We need a new dictionay

of words that cant be distorted to be sexist..

[BlooInBloo]

43. Heh - reminds me of Joey in a Friends episode.

[ccharles000]

2. I agree with Katie.

I think the media was extremely sexist towards Hillary.

[Supersedeas]

19. more hostile than the coverage that she gave Kerry with the swiftboating mess??

[seabeyond]

22. and i yelled out about the dishonesty and morally wrongness of that too

why is it just so damn hard to say it is wrong..... why is it so important to try to lessen it or dismiss it?

[Supersedeas]

30. who is lessening it -- Katie is making a factual comparison while ignoring

not lessening...while completely ignoring her own coverage of Gore and Kerry.

Factually, she is saying that the coverage of Clinton was the (THE) most hostile and unfair EVER -- that factual point is debatable -- especially given the source.

Debating that point is not equivalent to dismissing it.

Please understand that just because people don't agree with you and your favorite sources does not mean that they are dismissing you and your favorite sources.

Katie's point might have more credence, if her factual comparison was not wrapped in hyperbole in order to garner popular attention from those looking for hyperbole and excuses. Intellectual honesty requires that we take a hard look at the facts (and sources) before accepting hyperbole as gospel.

[seabeyond]

44. the points you bring up here, which are valid, were not what i was responding to

with the other post. you did not point out any of those things so if i did not osmosis it, not my fault.

attack couric cause she does not own what media did with kerry and gore and mccleland and many other dems, .... right there with you. have harped on it for years

the poster said there was sexism against hillary. short comment. your equally short comment was bringing up swiftboat. i dont think it is a stretch my saying that is like excusing.... dismissing or lessening.

your second post to clarify gives more info, ....

[Supersedeas]

52. fair enough--i should have been more clear.

- peace -

[Supersedeas]

20. more hostile than the media coverage Gore received when he faced Bush??

is it an actual comparison and a bone that she is throwing??

[babylonsister]

3. And now you need to see this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x146626

[TexasObserver]

4. Katie Couric is really desperate to get more market share.

She's circling the drain, and figures "hey, maybe I can get women to watch me!"

She's a mindless bobble head and always has been. Go back to morning interviews of kids who saved their money for band camp, Katie. You are not a news person and barely know more than the average TV watcher about what's going on in the nation.

[Tarheel_Dem]

6. I don't doubt there were instances of sexism during the primary campaign,

but is Katie Couric really the best spokesperson for this cause? Katie has a lot to answer for, in that she took a sharp "right" turn somewhere along the way. And this probably accounts for her dismal performance as a news "anchor". I think she is gearing up to use "sexism" as the reason for her departure from CBS.

I have no confidence in anything Katie says at this point, since she sat by, protecting her career, when she was being fed talking points from the White House, and keeping her mouth shut about it. Grain of salt.

[frickaline]

7. No, she she's not the best person ... sadly she's one of the only.

I'd love to have better places to turn for media commentary on sexism. Unfortunately, no one else will bring this to the forefront.

That's actually the entire problem, as I see it.

[Johonny]

25. Only

TDS and Stewart beat her to the punch on this by over a week.

[frickaline]

27. yes, on comedy central's fake news.

Much as I love Jon, I don't think that really counts. The fact is the MSM can't cover this because they are the main perpetrators.

[uponit7771]

32. EXACTLY!!!

[Johonny]

69. Fake news?

It was a story he covered it, he did it better than Katie. Just because Jon is funny don't mean he doesn't count. Colbert and Jon do harder hitting pieces on any given night than the network news does in a year. Because they add humor to soften the blow doesn't make it of less quality.

[frickaline]

70. "fake news" is how Jon refers to his own show.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

71. "Fake news" is how I refer to Katie Couric.

[Supersedeas]

46. Mika and Vanden Heuvel discussed it last week and so did Rachael Maddow

but they couched it in terms of being 'a' factor that contributed to Clinton's loss among many mistakes that were made by her campaign...not the reason for her loss.

[frickaline]

48. I believe this is exactly what Katie is saying also

She is saying that sexism hurt Clinton's chances, she's not saying it was the sole reason for her loss.

I must have missed Rachel's talk on this.

[truebrit71]

54. ..and that is complete bullshit...

...being a conniving, sneaky, underhanded despicable and dirty politician gave her the loss...

The MSM bent over backwards to support her...

[hfojvt]

77. Katie's CBS news certainly did

Their profile of her was very positive. Clinton supporters on DU were linking to it on youtube. That was like a free national ad, and NBC news did the same thing before the Nevada primary.

[Supersedeas]

56. Katie is taking it a bit further -- state it is the most hostile and unfair coverage

I do appreciate that she names names -- for that Katies should be commended.

[frickaline]

67. yeah she got a bit emotional there

but still, she's not saying its the only reason for the demise of the Clinton campaign.

She's not the greatest spokesperson on this, but there has been kind of a lack of spokespeople in this area. At least she's speaking up and she should be commended for this even if her past track record isn't the greatest.

[BlooInBloo]

29. Navy SEALs RAWK!!!!

[truebrit71]

9. ...and by extension that's why your ratings suck too is that right Katie...you are a poor substitute

..for a journalist...so go tan those legs, work on your perk, and while you're at it fetch me a cup of coffee ok sweetie? :sarcasm:

Yet again Katie Couric proves how completely and utterly fish-out-of-water she is...

[frickaline]

10. Instead of smearing Katie, maybe you can try to discuss the content here.

I know its difficult to avoid the sexism, since there are no males in the media who could be accused of anything you posted, but give it a try, kay?

Whether or not you respect her fails to impact her argument.

[truebrit71]

12. Don't give me that sexism bullshit kay? There is no content to discuss...it is bullshit...

...that shit didn't fly when the Hill camp was squealing about it, and it won't work post-Hill by a "journalist" who's ratings are in the shitter because she's fucking useless, although I'm sure the REAL reason they are so apalling is because all of the TV viewers are sexist too, right?

[Tarheel_Dem]

14. Well, truebrit, tell us how you really feel (LMAO). I will never forgive Katie's

useless ass for inviting Rush Limbaugh's racist, sexist, piggish ass on her first newscast for commentary? I mean Rush Limbaugh? I knew then, that her judgement, like her "journalism" cred was sorely lacking; and nothing she's done since that day has changed my opinion of her.

She waited until Scott McClellan's book came out to go public with her claims of being used as a tool of this administration, and for that reason, I have absolutely no respect for her as a woman or a journalist.

[truebrit71]

16. 100% agreed...

...

[frickaline]

23. Let me repeat for you: Whether or not you respect her fails to impact the validity of her argument

Believe me, I'd love for someone else to be making this argument in the media. The fact remains that she's the only one. That doesn't impact the validity of what she is saying. Nor does it change the fact that others refuse to discuss this.

Her point is valid. Sexism was nothing more than a footnote, and apparently that is right where you like it to be.

[seabeyond]

26. all the people that have FACT available yet aggressively work at ignoring it

is the very essence of the huge problem we have in this nation today.

[truebrit71]

28. Yawn.

...it is a bullshit issue when brought up by this privileged tart...

[uponit7771]

33. +1, also why in the hell isn't she screaming everytime one of her male peers makes a sexist comment

...about any dem woman?

First it was Hillary now it's Michelle?!?!?

[seabeyond]

17. or you can just be dishonest. there is plenty of written facts that sexist

comments were made. there for a visual perusal. if you deny that sexist comments were made you are either purposely ignoring valid info which is the blind stupid in this nation causing us so much problem or you are lying to preserve your stance with your candidate which is unnecessary and so very harmful to this nation.

this isn't about hillary. about her candidacy. about her whining about sexism. i was to the point where i was damn tired of everything being pointed at as sexism. it was bullshit. but i am not so dishonest to say the media (repug assholes) didn't use sexism. it was offensive. it should have repercussion. not for hillary. not for her campaign. but cause it is media and should not be allowed, be you male or female, obama supporter, mccain supporter or apolitical

[truebrit71]

21. Yawn....

Enough already...it's bullshit..and the first knee-jerk defense of a weak position..

The rethuglicans were not the ones using, or being accused of using sexism against her...they were supporting her for crying out loud..and for Katie "Cry Wolf" Couric to NOW claim that there is rampant sexism in the media is hypocrisy of the highest order...She didn't get her current job because she was the best journalist available THAT'S for damned sure...

[seabeyond]

24. listen to the becks and other, yes i consider them repugs.... and they made comments

the carlsons and other media right.

yes i know they were supporting hillary, i am in texas and know what they did in the primaries. the difference between you and i ... i can look at the FACTS and you insist on denying it. obama did not use sexist comment. hillary isn't going to be candidate. even with the sexist comments she also had a lot of positive from media and strong push from them to be the candidate.

but you are the type that cannot be honest about facts because of a fear of losing ground.

again i will reiterate.... that is NOTHING but HARMFUL to this nation. it does not hurt obama to be honest and acknowledge fact. it is sad the person that must lie in order to protect agenda. pathetic. and weak

[uponit7771]

34. Couric Pisses me off because she's acting as this is new, as if the MsM isnt ran by rich white males

...that say this kinda shit all of the time.

Her points are VALID but where was her voice of the last decade when it came to women in politics and how the MsM has treated them?

[frickaline]

36. yep completely agree with you there nt

[seabeyond]

41. i really dont give a shit about hillary or couric.... to me, both are not theissue

the issue is that there were sexist remarks made by our media and there were no repercussions and people on this thread were denying the very validity of that fact.

want to diss couric, fine, i am far from a fan and dont really listen to anything she has to say. and i dont want hillary and have never supported her. but i think we can not be a fan of a person and still recognize the truth in facts and not pretend or lie they didnt happen

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

47. The problem is we are looking at the boy who cried wolf...

When Obama said 'periodically' there was a wave of sadness throughout the land of people who said it was sexist... It was *clearly* not, and I despise the definition 'I felt it was sexist so it was sexist'...

The persons heart is whats at issue not how the recipient took it..

Yes there were comments made about Hills gender and its effect, you don't think there were comments made about Obama's race and its effect? are we not seeing comments about McCains age and its effect? The person who made gender the biggest issue was Hillary, period..

[frickaline]

49. you can't blame sexist comments from the media on Hillary

I'm not saying she didn't have some idiotic things to say regarding gender, but she's not responsible for their actions. The MSM still needs to be held accountable for their failing here.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

53. I'm not blaming Hillary

what I am saying is there are comments by the media that constantly focused on Obamas race, yet the Obama campaign just kept going along... Hillary made the medias comments an issue (self-fulfilling prophecy)..

Remember the 'is he black enough phase', or the 'can white America support a black man phase'?

With McCain we keep seeing his age come up...

The media picks apart people running for office and Hillary has had it no worse than many in the past... Look at what they did to Ducacus in 1988! The premise of the initial rant was 'Hillary has had it so much worse than anyone before her' which his *clearly* crap..

[seabeyond]

57. this is when i became disappointed with her about sexism

i already was disappointed for so much more in her campaign, but as a female this is when i became bothered about the sexist issue. all us women that have worked in a "mans world" know that even if there is sexism going on.... not if.... but when there is sexism going on, deal with it in a much more clever way, but never to sit there and cry out sexism cause always the male will flip it around to her crying like a "girl" and no true positive development will come from it.

and if it sounds like even as i am blaiming the female for yelling out, i am still pointing finger at the guy, yup... i am. lol

but your point is exactly right on. when there was racist bullshit, the tshirt with monkey from georgia, .... obama didnt bat an eye. and even as the racism of no white stupid lower income person will vote for them cause they are racist.... lol, he continued to embrace them and not point finger and yell at them.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

62. Exactly

You and I have had discussions about how men are treated in the media (think inept, blundering, selfish husbands on most tv shows).. It happens and its life best to just do what you can... We are far enough along that when someone really crosses the line (in most spheres) they are dealt with quickly..

[frickaline]

65. I don't see this quite the same way.

For example, with respect to the infamous t-shirt with the depiction of Curious George, the media gave that harsh enough treatment that the restaurant was forced to stop selling them. With the infamous 'nutcracker', these we're sold as novelty items in airports all over the country and sales of these were not shut down. In fact, you can buy them off Amazon right now. I'm not saying Obama didn't overcome huge obstacles in the primary with respect to race, however I felt he at least had the media helping him to point out most racism when it occurred.

There is a level of acceptability towards sexism in society and media. And likely also a level of acceptability toward ageism, although this hasn't gotten in to full swing yet, I imagine. It is as if people in the media generally know racism is wrong and actively condemn it but aren't convinced sexism is really an issue and make no effort to condemn. And people in general can't separate the sexism directed against Hillary by the media from her failed campaign effort as something that needs to be addressed in its own right.

Additionally, some believe Hillary 'deserved' sexism for various reasons. I find the two wrongs make a right approach insupportable.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

66. Right a nutcracker is way over the line

Carvel counting her testicles is not... yea I get it..

[frickaline]

68. I dont understand what that has to do with anything here

Does sexism on the part of Carville somehow excuse sexism on the part of others?

IMO he should be held accountable for his comments as well as everyone else making sexist statements. Just because he was affiliated with the Clinton campaign doesn't give him a 'get out of jail free' card. To me he's just another cog in the sexist MSM.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

72. But that was not sexism onthe part of carvel

point is the sexism problem was ignored largely because of Hillary (like I said boy who cried wolf)... So many times they cried sexism, and so many times they played up her masculine attributes that the few really minor incidences got ignored.

Like I said earlier sexism is in the heart of the person speaking *not* in the ears of the person hearing.

[frickaline]

73. Just because you don't intend to demean someone, doesn't mean you didn't

I'd argue his comments were sexist. He may not have intended for them to be demeaning, but they were nonetheless.

He implied that it is preferable to have as many testicles as possible. I can't find any way to interpret that to not make it sexist.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

76. Just because you felt demeaned does not me the person said something demeaning

The problem with 'this is how I feel' is that for any one thing I say there are hundreds if not thousands of different ways it can be taken. So whats the common denominator? well, quite simply, its what I said and how *I* meant it...

Carvel was saying, in context, All this complaining about Hillary's toughness is moronic, she is at least 50% tougher than most men! Now you can take that however you like but that does *not* make it sexist.. Crude? perhaps but then again thats *my* take not what the statements owner intended to say.

"I can't find any way to interpret that to not make it sexist."

You can realize he was not being literal for one, once you take it as metaphore its pretty simple to say 'oh' I see..

If Carvel really thought that its better to have testicles than overies he might not have been on Hillary's team no?

[frickaline]

78. How would Carville be a good judge

of the demeaning of a group of people if he's not a member of the group being demeaned?

I'm sorry but no, just no. That's like saying the person that raped you didn't intend to rape you so it wasn't rape. Just to put what you are saying in another context. Sexist things are sexist in their own right, intent excluded.

And why would he make the argument that his candidate had the most testicles if he didn't think it was a good thing? You are seriously twisting logic here. Even as a metaphor, it is still sexist. In fact, that is the only way in which it is sexist, since quite obviously it wasn't literal.

[seabeyond]

51. the difference being and my argument is racism we acknowledge and say wrong

ageism we acknowledge and say wrong

sexism..... deny deny deny and continue to do and do not have an honest discussion about

at least, if it is acknowledge and called out, there is a chance for healing

with such an active effort to deny it even exists there is not a chance in hell for learning, growing and evolving. and that is just not good enough in a world for my daughters, nieces and.... yes nephews and sons...

further, when hillary and her supporters were abusing it, calling everything sexism, i was there yelling at those women the loudest, cause it is cry wolf and more harmful than the very people being sexist.... so i am working my ass off being honest in both camps where i do not see people even willing to admit it happens when the sexist words are in their face

we are better and smarter than that.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

55. Who is denineg that there is sexism?`

What is being debated is (1) particular incidents and (2) quantitatively how much was there and did it sink Hillary?

Lets face it, Hillary's campaign died (more or less) with the sniper fire incident that was it.. Sexism did not sink Hillary, she did that herself..

Were there comments that were sexist made? yes but Hillary has not been treated more poorly than others before her, trying to use sexism to cover up a massively inept campaign (which is whats going on here) does not speak well for women, at all!

"when hillary and her supporters were abusing it calling everything sexism, i was there yelling at those women the loudest"

I know you're levelheaded sea, I was speaking in generalizations not specifically to you.

[seabeyond]

58. Who is denying..... people on this thread i am responding to. lol . n/t

[frickaline]

59. exactly what I was thinking nt

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

63. Well they are wrong

in that there was some sexism, couric is wrong in that it really should just be a footnote! had little if anything to do with why Hill could not close the deal..

[truebrit71]

64. Exactly...

...it had to do with her style of campaigning more than anything else...

The "sexism" angle is just a bullshit excuse...

And if that was the case Ms Couric, why did you wait until AFTER her campaign was over before you voiced your perky opinion? Maybe because you are full of shit?

[Lorien]

31. Though I'm no fan of HRC or Couric, she's absolutely right

there was plenty of blatant sexism in the coverage of her campaign. America is still a sexist-and racist-nation, and that needs to be addressed. Both are symptoms of ignorance and hatred and should never be tolerated. If you attack Clinton for her policies, that's all very well and good, but when you attack her for her gender then it's an attack on all women.

[uponit7771]

37. Couric may have founded her 'voice' but I'd like to see her make more of these comments BEFORE...

...something negative happens instead of staying relatively quiet.

First Iraq and now sexism, both of these things were BLARING before and in both situations her voice was muted until after effects.

[uponit7771]

35. Where was Katies voice since the 90s? She has a point but she's making it after the fact just like..

...her comments about how the Bush admin would disallow them access if they portrayed them negatively.

Come on Katie, this has been going on for decades and you said nothing

[Bettie]

38. There was sexism, but in the end, it wasn't the whole reason

She didn't get the nomination.

There were many factors and sexism was one of them, but in the end, her own actions made the most difference in whether she succeeded or not in gaining the nomination.

To pretend that sexism doesn't exist is silly, but it is equally silly to pretend that it was the ONLY reason she didn't win.

[uponit7771]

39. Yeap and I didn't hear her screaming while all the sexism was goin on in the MsM, she sat there and

...said very little.

[BlooInBloo]

45. She was too busy showing us her awesome legs.

[frickaline]

42. Yep, I agree, it was far from the only reason

It is just sad to me that this issue still receives so little coverage. Even within the scope of a post mortem to the campaign, we cannot rationally discuss sexism in the media. The MSM refuses to address it leaving it as nothing more than a side note. Katie may not be the best Journalist out there, but on this issue, she's got a valid point.

[truebrit71]

50. Bullshit.

...whatever with this shit...it didn't pass muster during the campaign and it STILL doesn't pass the smell test now..

Go ahead and accuse me of being a sexist (again - the other thread somehow magically disappeared...maybe someone whined loudly enough about it :eyes:)...and then explain that to my wife and daughter...

[LeFleur1]

60. We'll See If Its Recognized

When they hit Michelle Obama with it. It's coming.

[truebrit71]

61. Nah, they'll just use racism against her..hell they've already started.....

...

[Bettie]

75. I agree, we do need to talk about it.

Many attacks against her were unfair, like the fact that if she showed emotion she was "unstable" and if not she was a "ball breaker" or a "bitch". These kind of things aren't said about men and that is wrong and should be addressed in the media!

I simply take issue with people who think that the only reason Senator Clinton was unable to secure the nomination was sexism.

Now, if you have a magic way to make the MSM talk about issues of real importance, it could make you rich beyond your wildest dreams!!!! Sadly, they're not going to have that conversation because it would not be "infotaining" enough!

[democracy1st]

74. Katie's pulling a Clarence Thomas,if her ratings were high she wouldn't blink a eye at sexism