Right wing is fighting evolution a new way now. They do not give up.

[madfloridian]

It is one of their wedge issues that they simply can not let go of and move along. The NYT has picked up the new method they have been using. It has gone on here in Florida for a year or so.

New Strategy in the battle against teaching evolution.

DALLAS — Opponents of teaching evolution, in a natural selection of sorts, have gradually shed those strategies that have not survived the courts. Over the last decade, creationism has given rise to “creation science,” which became “intelligent design,” which in 2005 was banned from the public school curriculum in Pennsylvania by a federal judge.

Now a battle looms in Texas over science textbooks that teach evolution, and the wrestle for control seizes on three words. None of them are “creationism” or “intelligent design” or even “creator.”

The words are “strengths and weaknesses.”

Starting this summer, the state education board will determine the curriculum for the next decade and decide whether the “strengths and weaknesses” of evolution should be taught. The benign-sounding phrase, some argue, is a reasonable effort at balance. But critics say it is a new strategy taking shape across the nation to undermine the teaching of evolution, a way for students to hear religious objections under the heading of scientific discourse.

Already, legislators in a half-dozen states — Alabama, Florida, Louisiana, Michigan, Missouri and South Carolina — have tried to require that classrooms be open to “views about the scientific strengths and weaknesses of Darwinian theory,” according to a petition from the Discovery Institute, the Seattle-based strategic center of the intelligent design movement.

Gotta give them credit, they are really creative in finding new ways. The courts deny them one way, they move on to the next one.

In Florida whole school boards and even superintendents are in place now to push the religious view of creation...whatever they call it.

Here is what a school superindent in North Florida said publicly.

Florida school superintendent on evolution: "There's holes in it you can drive a truck through."

He seemed so proud of believing it. He illustrates the points being made by the NYT.

A growing number of North Florida superintendents and school boards are objecting to the state's proposed new science standards, saying the standards give too much credence to evolution and leave no room for alternative theories.

Evolution is "going to be taught as fact, and everyone knows it's not fact," said Dennis Bennett, the superintendent in Dixie County, west of Gainesville. "There's holes in it you can drive a truck through."

In Florida they are even calling it "indoctrination."

Evolution opponents in Florida rising up against what they call "indoctrination."

From some letters to the editors:

Education should only teach factual information or evidence on both sides of debatable issues and how to discern the truth between disparate beliefs. To teach evolution as a scientific fact is not education, but indoctrination every bit as insidious as the rewriting of history by dictatorial regimes.

And this gem:

It appears (to this average inquiring mind) that in order to believe in evolution the first requirement is to suspend one's innate human ability to reason. Pardon my ignorance, but this seems like "devolution" to me.

Please forgive me, but I am not yet so highly evolved that I am ready to swallow as scientific fact something that does not even pass the test of common sense. Perhaps in a few more years I will have devolved to the point of believing a theory that has been so obviously cut from whole-cloth.

One said it would produce generations of "godless adults."

The downward spiral humanity is on is pathetically evolutionary, and is producing generations of godless adults.

It's certainly not true science. It is a lot of confusion along with
imagination and a wishful doctrine from confused people who cannot accept creationism. I trust we have more competent leaders who will stop this nonsense being perpetrated on our students.

The NYT article points out that even though this effort is centered in a few states,(in large part Florida and Texas)....that it will spread in the textbook arena.

One of the most important paragraphs says that "What happens in Texas does not stay in Texas: the state is one of the country’s biggest buyers of textbooks, and publishers are loath to produce different versions of the same material. The ideas that work their way into education here will surface in classrooms throughout the country."

[MisterHowdy]

1. You can't fight the truth of evolution.

The sun never revolved around the Earth,
The Earth was never flat.

Jesus was only a man.

n/t

[JaneFordA]

68. When all else fails...

... it's time to hoist them by their own petards, so to speak. Since they're so eager to set up "faith-based" education, strangle them with bureaucratic red tape--insist that any/all "faiths" of all the school systems' constituents be equally represented in a massive creation seminar, of sorts.

Students would have to demonstrate proficiency in all these systems to acquire the necessary "science" credit. It tickles the stuffings out of me to contemplate little Southern Baptists having to get their heads around all that Hindu birth/death/eternal circle of life thing... TRINITY stuff... hehehehee...

Whatcha wanna bet it wouldn't take but a couple of grading periods for "creation science" to be dropped in favor of "comparative religion?"

;-)

[ulysses]

2. the hydra comes to mind.

We've just gotta keep chopping.

[Canuckistanian]

3. Maybe they can release that "banana" video again

That seemed to work for a time. About 10 milliseconds, in my case.

[madfloridian]

4. I thought that banana video was a joke....they were serious.

They were really serious. :evilgrin:

[Glorfindel]

5. Thank God I don't have children

If I did, I'd put them in a progressive private school or home-school them. What kind of a country DELIBERATELY dumbs itself down? One with a death-wish, I think. Iran is a pretty good example of what the USA would be if the "Christian" fundamentalists get their way, with the death penalty for "perversions" and the little woman kept firmly in her place. :puke: :puke: :puke:

[Greyhound]

11. That is exactly what terrifies me, significant minority of though-challenged

morans deliberately trying to breed even more ignorance. We've seen the results of this before and I don't believe that, even they, if they were still capable of rational thought, would never want to see it again.

[cloudbase]

6. Creationist corollary:

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, therefore all opinions should be equally valid. The opinions conforming to the creationist belief system are, due to divine influence, more equal than any other opinions.

[madfloridian]

7. Excellent description.

:applause:

[Winterblues]

50. Scientific "theory" is not opinion

Once a hypothesis has been presented and argued and presented again until it can not be disproven it becomes "theory". Scientific "Theory" is considered fact until disproved.

[tsuki]

8. Too much time on their hands. nt

[Sinistrous]

9. Of course the fundamentalists are relentless in fighting evolution.

They need "Adam and Eve" and "their" monumental transgression to justify spewing the "man is evil/dammed/a sinner" line that keeps them in business selling redemption. And, absent that primordial flaw in humanity, the crucifixion of Christ was just a barbarous act, devoid of meaning.

Sinistrous

[wtmusic]

10. "Generations of godless adults"

:party: :beer: :party: :bounce: :toast: :bounce:

[madfloridian]

12. LOL

Yeh, this recovering Southern Baptist understands what you saying. :evilgrin:

[anonymous171]

13. Teach your own kids your faith if you want don't want them to be "godless"

School is for education, not religion. That's what a church is for.

[unblock]

14. scientists can't "prove" that 1 plus 1 equals 2

DEFINING "two" as being what you get when you add one to one isn't a PROOF.
in fact, there's a school of thought that says that 1 plus 1 equals 10.

so they should give equal time in textbooks to the equally valid concept that one plus one equals ten. relegating this concept to one small chapter is evil and anti-god.

:evilgrin:

[jmowreader]

23. Umm...bad choice of comparison

In binary math, 1 plus 1 DOES equal 10. Every geek knows this. Any decent math book that covers differing number systems (which should be all of them) will tell you that when you're doing binary math, 1 plus 1 is 10. It's just you decimal fundamentalists who think 1 plus 1 can only equal 2.

What scientists can't prove is water's wet. In fact, there's a vast array of literature that says God created DRY water, and it was Adam's tears, after discovering Eve had been hooking up with De Debbil, that turned water wet. And as we all know, if something's in Genesis it HAS to be right. So I demand that you teach in your schools the fact that "pure" water is dry, and only evil, sin-corrupted water is wet. Naturally, I expect you to take time away from teaching other sinful concepts about water to spend five whole days every month teaching every child that the God of the Christian Bible created pure, dry water for all of us to rejoice in, and when the evil in this world has been defeated (evil changes every week--this week it's gays, next week atheists, week after that Democrats...oh, I dunno, we'll say the fourth week is anyone not trying to recruit people into Amway) we will once again have dry water to refresh our Godly souls.

[unblock]

24. umm...i'm well aware of base 2...

the point was that all their arguments start with the fact that scientists can't "prove" evolution happened (because science is only in the business of disproving). they stretch that to argue that other ideas, no matter how baseless (pun intended), deserve equal time on the grounds that they are just as "not proven" as evolution.

yet it's all argument of convenience for them; they don't argue for anything else to be taught in school based on the argument that anything else is "not proven". it doesn't bother them that base ten is an arbitrary convention with little in nature to even make it convenient. they'd be on much firmer ground arguing for base two or base sixteen or any other base. they could argue for base three, to honor the three aspects of their god. yet somehow they can't get excited about that.

[PufPuf23]

58. This explains why good sex is wet n/t.

[papapi]

15. I say let them prove their god exists, then they can teach his 'theory'.

we know fossil records, soil cores, archaeological excavation and a myriad of other scientific evidence points to a reasonable conclusion that evolution, and Darwin's theory about it, are believable and in some cases provable.

What do the fundies have that proves their god exists? Creation? Intelligent design?

I use to believe in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus, but that was a very, very long time ago.

Now the Easter Bunny - that's a different story.

[bossy22]

36. i remember once

up at college there was a evolution v intelligent design debate that i participated in. I remember the guy going up and his main point was that organisms work so perfectly that only god could have created them. Then i spoke and asked the gentlemen this "so species that did not adapt to their environment well and are now extinct are evidence of an incompetant designer?"....i was told i was going to hell for calling god an incompetant designer

[Vilis Veritas]

52. Perfect answer. Bravo.

In order to prove creationism, you first need to prove the existance of God.

You have uncovered a possible hidden agenda here to get science to prove the existance of God by validating the proof suggested in creationism.

saddlesore

[cbc5g]

16. There is undeniable evidence for Evolution...NO evidence for creationism

Creationism is a fairy tale with no evidence backing it up.


Proof enough for me to NOT have it taught in schools...at all...ever.

[DCKit]

17. The religiously insane are "evolving" their argument.

Pathetic.

[FiveGoodMen]

57. That's not just wordplay, either. Memes evolve just like DNA.

[hunter]

18. Let us discuss the strengths and weaknesses of their religion.

Selling their creationist crap as some kind of "science" is just one of many weaknesses. Their theology is pretty whack too.

[RB TexLa]

19. If I had children, the last place I want them learning theology is from a public school teacher

[provis99]

22. learning theology from a pastor isn't so hot, either

[magellan]

20. American Taliban. n/t

[Swamp Rat]

21. Nor should we.

We will be fighting the Amerikan Taliban for the rest of our lives, lest we lose our civil rights.

[hootinholler]

29. Nice one! Leader of the talibornagain. n/t

[varun]

25. Why dont the fundies go after Theory of Gravitation?

After all, thats a theory too.

Maybe because it does not "contradict" their religious texts.

[Beausoleil]

32. They're on it

"Gravity: Doesn't exist. If items of mass had any impact of others, then mountains should have people orbiting them. Or the space shuttle in space should have the astronauts orbiting it. Of course, that's just the tip of the gravity myth. Think about it. Scientists want us to believe that the sun has a gravitation pull strong enough to keep a planet like neptune or pluto in orbit, but then it's not strong enough to keep the moon in orbit? Why is that? What I believe is going on here is this: These objects in space have yet to receive mans touch, and thus have no sin to weigh them down. This isn't the case for earth, where we see the impact of transfered sin to material objects. The more sin, the heavier something is."

http://www.fstdt.com/fundies/top100.aspx?archive=1

[Mythsaje]

70. What, so lead is more sinful than, say, aluminum?

Just goes to show...people will believe just about any damn thing. Obviously these people are suffering from some obscure form of brain damage.

[LiberalEsto]

26. How can we expect these pitiful people

to believe in evolution, when they themselves have not evolved a whole lot?


:evilgrin:

[lefty2000]

27. Texas Oilmen Believe In Evolution

Geologists who believe in evolution find more oil than those who don't believe in evolution.

[tom_paine]

28. Nazis never give up. They are indefatigable zealots. At least they aren't killing people this time

around...YET.

Give it time, though. If these trends remain unaltered, this last dissimilarity between Bushies and Nazis will fall away. No more than 50 years, probably a lot less.

[The Backlash Cometh]

30. Why don't we beat them at their own game?

If they insist on enforcing the Fairness Doctrine in schools on the topic of evolution, why don't we use it as leverage to bring the Fairness Doctrine back. Period.

[HawkerHurricane]

31. They can't even be original in thier put downs.

Evolution is going to be taught as fact, and everyone knows it's not fact, There's holes in it you can drive a truck through. - Dennis Bennett, school superintendent, 2008

Make them defend thier 'theory'. There are holes in Creation Science you can drive a starship through. - Isaac Asimov, Doctor of Biochemistry, science and science fiction author, polymath, in 1981

[bossy22]

34. creation science

is not a science- there are no testable hypothesese, no research which can back up theories....

i understand that evolution isnt perfect, we lack the evidence to prove some aspects of it, but creationism is just one giant hole

[iamahaingttta]

33. My god, if these fucking people spent HALF the energy...

...they spend on this "creationizm," "intelligent design," and "strengths and weaknesses" crap doing something constructive, who knows what actual good they could accomplish! Seriously, it's "people" like this that make me embarrassed to be a member of your species.

[elizfeelinggreat]

35. k & r

from the first article:

But, he added, “a question that has yet to be answered is certainly different from an alleged weakness.”

Mr. Fisher points to the flaws in Darwinian theory that are listed on an anti-evolution Web site, strengthsandweaknesses.org, which is run by Texans for Better Science Education.

“Many of them are decades old,” Mr. Fisher said of the flaws listed. “They’ve all been thoroughly refuted.”

Why are we forced to fight the same battles over and over?
Is it because of this sense of "fairness" they all insist upon?
Why be fair about LIES?

[rucky]

37. Bring it on! Let's test it using the Scientific Method...

and apply the same standards to their bible-based theory.

[The2ndWheel]

38. That would be evolution in action

Messy. Inefficient. Diverse. Going in 360 degrees.

It'll be a sad day when everyone thinks the same way, be it religiously, or scientifically, or any way we can think of. Then again, maybe it won't be a sad day. Depends on who you're talking to I guess. But if you're talking to different people and getting a different answer...:crazy:

[mainegreen]

39. WTF. No one is stopping them indoctrinating their own kids, so leave everyone else's alone!

Such ridiculous, nosy, busybodies!

[GTurck]

40. There is a group...

in Texas called TFN (Texas Freedom Network) that is fighting the right-wing ideologues on the Texas Board of Education over the issues in this thread. So far they have done an excellent job of mustering testimony and other resources.
The point has to be made that the Texas that claims George Bush is not all Texans or even a majority. And then it has to be emphasized that Bushie is a Texan only by dwelling here with his patrician parents when they were making money hand over fist in the oil industry. The Bush's use addresses for convenience not connection to any area.
Texas Democrats are working to overthrow the right-wing Republicans that have made most of us cringe when the state is even mentioned politically or socially.
:kick:

[Dogtown]

41. "godless adults"

As redundant as the phrase is, this is a consumation devoutly to be wished.

[undeterred]

42. I wish they'd teach civics as fact too.

[kay1864]

43. Here's that Florida superintendent!

Dennis Bennett, superintendent of Dixie District Schools. Looks like he uses Earl Long's barber! :rofl:

[Blue_Tires]

45. must. not.. make... FSU... joke!

[Blue_Tires]

44. HOLY. FUCKING. SHIT.

"It appears (to this average inquiring mind) that in order to believe in evolution the first requirement is to suspend one's innate human ability to reason. Pardon my ignorance, but this seems like "devolution" to me.

Please forgive me, but I am not yet so highly evolved that I am ready to swallow as scientific fact something that does not even pass the test of common sense. Perhaps in a few more years I will have devolved to the point of believing a theory that has been so obviously cut from whole-cloth."
=================
=================

My brain stopped working after reading that one...How does this person even know how to write? He or she is a waste of breathable air, and must have had very attentive parents, because I promise you someone at some time saved him or her from numerous Darwin Awards...

[madfloridian]

49. Ah, you caught the "devolution" thing. Ain't it amazing?

:hi:

[LeftinOH]

46. Ironic, isn't it? The creationists tactics continue to evolve ever-more-subtle strategies

for the sake of the survival of their 'argument'.

[JHB]

47. Not a new tactic, just new that its what's left to them n/t

[papapi]

48. Let's teach 'teaching evolution is evolutionary'. . .

Is 'strengths and weaknesses' the same as 'survival of the fittest'?

If everything was created by an intelligent being then who created 'God'?

Everybody knows that 1+1=0

Darwin was actually a satanist.

People who lived six thousand years ago know more about science that scientists.

God doesn't have to 'prove' anything. He/she/it is God.

My 'God' fucked up.

We are actually Martians sent here when that planet died.

Buttermilk and lard biscuits are the best.

[krabigirl]

51. And the Democrats want to reach out and get these people in our party? No thanks.

[kay1864]

53. Texas CHAIR: "“You’ve got a creationist system and a naturalist system”

Dr. McLeroy, the education board chairman, sees the debate as being between “two systems of science.”

Dr. McLeroy says his rejection of evolution — “I just don’t think it’s true or it’s ever happened” — is not based on religious grounds. Courts have clearly ruled that teachings of faith are not allowed in a science classroom, but when he considers the case for evolution, Dr. McLeroy said, “it’s just not there.”

...creationists on the Texas board grew to a near majority. Seven of 15 members subscribe to the notion of intelligent design, and they have the blessings of Gov. Rick Perry, a Republican.

As madfloridian points out, this would create a textbook that could be used in every state in the country.


:banghead:

[Lautremont]

54. It is indeed true that what happens in one single Texas school book depository

can have nationwide ramifications.

[Vickers]

55. The guys who started the Discovery Institute are Harvard grads.

No kidding.

[jmowreader]

72. So is the current, installed president of the United States

Harvard has really lost its luster over the last few years.

[ceile]

56. I have 3 nieces in the TX school system

And small town TX, at that. Their father is a creationist (doesn't believe that dinosaurs are real-Hollywood made them up). And my fiance wonders why I want out of this state....

[Fire Walk With Me]

59. Of course they won't stop. They need to believe that only they are right.

And of course we know of what We Are Right is an acronym.

[RandomKoolzip]

60. It is the TWENTY-FIRST FUCKING CENTURY, PEOPLE!

Why do fundies enjoy living in the dark ages? It's like they're proud of being stupid.

I can't wait until the need for religion in human life is gone. At this rate, should take another 4000 years or so. We should be there already, though.

[defendandprotect]

61. A long line of insane arguments vs EVOLUTION . . . now including "indoctrination" . ..!!!

What is organized patriarchal religion except INDOCTRINATION . . . !!! ????

And they grab you when you're in diapers now ---

[defendandprotect]

62. ...and the world began 2008 years ago . . . for idiots . . .

[defendandprotect]

63. ...and the world began 2008 years ago . . . for religious idiots ---

[Lyric]

64. "Godless adults"

The downward spiral humanity is on is pathetically evolutionary, and is producing generations of godless adults.

We can only hope.

[calimary]

65. One - and ONLY one positive to this:

We should carefully study how and why the flat-earthers are doing this.

Note their relentlessness. Very true - they never give up. When you shut the door in their damned faces, they throw everything they've got into finding an open side window or ventilation grate or hole in the roof where they can still slither inside.

That kind of tenacity is EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED TO HAVE, FOR OURSELVES!!!

That's why they're still a presence and still a force to contend with. They don't let themselves get discouraged, and they don't wander off to try something different, or become apathetic, or roll over and go back to sleep. It's NEVER the end. It's NEVER the last word. Their sentence NEVER has a period at the end.

THAT'S HOW WE SHOULD BE, TOO!!!!

Let it be a lesson and a motivator for us, because to counter them, we have to make sure we stay out there, checkmating them at every turn. They may not ever get tired or give up, and there's always more of them.

It's like with those knuckledraggers who think the simple solution is to just "kill 'em all!" when it comes to how to deal with terrorists. They never stop to think (think? THEM???) objectively that for every "terrorist" you kill, you wind up spawning or inspiring half-a-dozen more, at least. And it'll NEVER end, and you'll NEVER solve the problem because there will always be terrorists as long as the bedrock issues that cause terrorism to begin with are never addressed.

We have to stay on offense - AND defense - around these people at all times. They never give up. And any time we beat them, you can be guaranteed they'll be back again, trying some other angle. And believe me, if Roe v Wade is ever overturned, that won't be enough. They won't declare themselves satisfied and go away. That will only empower them and embolden them to push further.

Mad-Eye Moody in the Harry Potter books always warned his students: "CONSTANT VIGILANCE!!!!!!" We would do well to pay attention, too.

[madfloridian]

66. Amen, calimary. We have to have that same relentless spirit

for what we believe in. We are still playing defense a lot. We are doing better now, but a way to go.

These folks just keep in the same direction, dodging barriers and going around them but in the same direction.

[calimary]

71. Truly. I remember reading something about the bushies when they were first

squatting in Al Gore's house, and the mentality as they "got down to business," on EVERY level, was "how can we get around..." whatever it was, laws, regulations, conventions, didn't matter. That was their raison d'etre.

We have to adopt that same mentality. HAVE TO! It has to become an obsession, almost. It almost has to be the kind of thing where you wake up in the morning and that's your first thought - "how can I get around these guys and the obstruction they've set up?" And the last thing you think of before you go to bed at night. That kind of thing. We just have to start thinking that way - if we're EVER gonna knock these bastards out of contention - and wind up demonizing them worse than they've demonized us.

[elehhhhna]

67. Oh hell, go ahead and just teach "Creationism"

in Mythology class.

[windoe]

69. They dismiss what they do not understand

you have to understand carbon dating, astronomy and geology in order to understand the age of the Earth and universe. I really doubt these people are able to conceptualize that which they dismiss.
It is like dismissing math. WTF

[Faygo Kid]

73. Hell, evolution and refighting the Civil War are the only reasons to visit Free Republic anymore.

Seem to be the only things the brain-dead FReepers remain passionate about.

They are otherwise booo-rring and predictable in their support of W. as the monkey's term winds down. But without a whole lot of passion.