How bad is Bush - a reality check.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

I've seen various silly posts on DU trying to present George W. Bush as one of the worse leaders the world has ever known - comparing him to Saddam Hussein, or to Hitler, on equal terms.

This is absurd.

There is a simple test to see which of two leaders was the better and which the worse: imagine that their places had been swapped - that the country of each had been subjected to the government and actions of the other.

Is there really anyone out there who thinks that America would be better off if it had been being governed the way Saddam ran Iraq or Hitler ran Germany for the last 7 years?


If you were to rank the nations of the world in order of how good their current ruler is in the above fashion, then by most measures America would come in the top third - Bush would score above most non-Western rulers or governments, but below most other Western ones; he'd gain points on lack of corruption - I know it's an article of faith on DU that the American government is immensely corrupt, but compared with most of the rest of the world it's relatively clean - and on human rights - Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, while pretty awful by Western standards, just aren't up there with what most non-Western governments get away with - but lose significantly on economics - many other rulers styles of government do more to help their poor at the expense of their rich.



So the next time you're thinking that things in America today are as bad as they can be, go to somewhere like Wikipedia, pick a random African or south Asian or middle-Eastern nation, and see what you can learn about their government, and realise than Bush could be a lot worse.

Which is not to say, of course, that they couldn't also be a hell of a lot better...

[MrObama]

1. Bush

Bush is an idiot

[lpbk2713]

2. Best Newbie observation I have seen in a long time.

:thumbsup: :hi: :thumbsup:

[Cheap_Trick]

18. And that's even more dangerous

Like a loaded gun in the hands of a toddler....

[sharesunited]

3. By American standards, he is worst. More like a dictator or emporer

than we are accustomed to or should ever allow ourselves to suffer.

[Bluebear]

4. Yes, we are such a silly, silly board.

:eyes:

[Wickerman]

5. ok, so he might be 3rd worst in the world

{Perhaps even then that is an exaggeration} But he is the worst leader the US has seen at our helm. And the worst of a super power.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

28. Possibly the first, certainly not the second.

It will not amaze me if, in 50 years time, Bush is remembered as one of the worst US presidents ever.

But he's not on a par with some of the worse Russian leaders of the past; if you count China as a superpower it's also been worse lead.

[TomInTib]

6. Now, THAT'S a real relief... It "could be a lot worse."

Kinda like when I fractured my femur and sought comfort in the fact that the pain wasn't quite as intense as the pain that I experienced with kidney stones.

[FiveGoodMen]

7. We should keep our thoughts to ourselves and wait till the body counts are even.

No sense pointing out a Hitler-in-the-making. Then the populace might stop him before he's in first place, and what fun is that?

[Hydra]

9. That's my POV

It's funny how many people act like Hitler killed 6 million in the death camps in 1 day.

Besides, Hitler's nuclear weapons program got disrupted. If Bush opts to nuke Iran, he will OFFICIALLY be worse than any murderous crackpot so far known.

[Terran]

8. I now feel a lot better

about the last seven years. Thanks for putting it all in perspective.

"America: It Could Be Worse."

[yardwork]

20. It's a winning slogan. After all, who are we to complain?

It's not like we once had the right of free speech or a free press or anything. It's not like DU is some kind of open message board on the internets where anyone can express their opinion or something communist like that!

Damn it, this is 'murica! Love it or leave it.

[tblue]

10. I had a husband who beat me. But hey he never shot me. I guess it was 'silly' of me to dump the SOB

He was a hell of a lot better than any psychopath I could have found on Wikipedia.

Wow. What was I thinking???

[uppityperson]

32. Or is it just silly to compare him to Jeff Dahmer?

While I understand there are varying degrees of awfulness and not all are totally comparable, I agree with your assessment of the OP.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

11. I'm sure the Iraqi people might feel differently...

about that.

[Hydra]

12. Ever hear of Blackwater?

Or Haliburton?

Your charge that the corruption is not as bad as other places is laughable. Trillions of dollars into crony pockets while people die.

Feel free to post this on free republic, though. They love these kind of "we are better than our enemies" bits.

[Loge23]

13. Comparisons to third world or to the U.S. prior to 2000?

It's not necessarily how bad he is against people like Kim Jong-il, Idi Amin, or Mugabe; more so for me, it's how bad he is against George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, or (and this should get some hackles up) Bill Clinton.
I respect your position and understand your point, but I can't defend this cretin, Bush, under any circumstances.
Under this glorified idiot, this country has become less free, less democratic, and now finds itself on the precipice of financial ruin. That certainly qualifies him for serious consideration for the "Worst Ever" sash.
His crimes and blunders have been well-recounted on these pages ad nauseum - I don't need to expound further.
His actions are no longer a matter of political opinion, they are historical record now.
Certainly, Hitler's Holocaust will and should stand alone as an unspeakable horror never to be experienced again - even if pretenders to Hitler's disgrace will try.
But that doesn't absolve an American president of:
- betraying the very principles of the Constitution that he swore to uphold,
- bankrupting the Treasury of the United States,
- taking us to war without just cause.
For us, and the U.S., that's pretty awful.

[Fire Walk With Me]

14. They are systematically bringing America to the same place, or worse, as Haiti, the Philippines, etc

Welcome to the 3rd-World US, where you'll be thankful for any job in spite of conditions. And you'll love and honor our own version of Imelda Marcos.

Your description denies the obvious trend. If they simply took over by force, we'd notice and do something. If they >>slowly<< destroy unions, the middle class, usurp the media, install surveillance in our communications, destroy the Constitution, practice torture, make deals with the international rich and manipulate markets for their own profit and social profit...well, they are Nazis. They simply are taking the slow route, that of the frog in a pan of water that is slowly increasing in temperature until it is boiling.

Of course, if your post was sarcasm, "well played".

[Donald Ian Rankin]

27. That's really quite offensive.

To look at how bad the Haitians have it right now, and then to claim "well, you don't have it any worse than we're going to" is not just completely untrue, it's also a massive dimminution of their problems.

[Fire Walk With Me]

29. I said that we are going in that direction. It is not offensive at all.

It is a caution stating both that we should help those in trouble (edit: what is offensive is that BushCo know about Haitian trouble and do nothing, Darfur, etc.), and help ourselves -before- we get where there are happily bringing us.

How could you take offense at that? It's the truth. Let's solve these problems before they continue to become bigger problems. Anyone can see the trend, even if you only factor in that they approve of torture, among other things. We have happy torture freaks in political power and they're pretty much doing whatever they wish. What they can't yet do, they are setting up...unless we fight through the Constitution and its processes.

[EOTE]

15. Bush, not as bad as Saddam or Hitler!

Somehow I doubt that would have ever made a very good campaign slogan.

[Mr. Blonde]

16. Writing from Nigeria

I can tell you, you are 100% correct. The level of corruption here makes Bush look like a rank amateur.

I was surprised that it is in fact so corrupt here and in some areas dangerous, that the hazard pay here is higher than it is in Iraq. In fact it is the highest in the world.

[yardwork]

21. Take a look at the causes of most of that corruption in Nigeria.

See some familiar names? Exxon?

[Mr. Blonde]

30. I have bad news for you

not every ill in this world can be blamed on oil companies.

Do you realize how much cheaper things would be for them if the corruption here were less? In addition to the cost to actually do something, you then have to bribe whoever is doing it to actually get it done. Kind of an alarming for a corporation that has to abide by the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

Things are bad enough that one of those big evil no good slimy low down theiving oil companies is pulling out. It is no longer financially worth it to Chevron to stay here and deal with it. That is right, the corruption here is so bad and runs so deep that an oil company is pulling out of one of the few OPEC countries not producing at full capacity. Now why would they be doing that if they are the root cause of the problems? I mean if I cause a problem it is usually to benefit me and not to make my life more difficult.

[uppityperson]

31. Hey, have you found my lawyer there yet? He keeps emailing me

about money some almost-king left me.

What are you doing in Nigeria?

[Mr. Blonde]

36. Working for a pipeline company

My dad has worked over here for about 4 years now, and he had always wanted me to come over here to see just how good we have it in the US. All of the previous summers I have had other things that I had to do, but this summer was available. So here I am.

When I talk to my friends they always ask if I have seen anything crazy yet, and I have to say depends what you mean. There is a huge difference between things that would not fly in the US and standard operating procedure here.

It is definitely an eye-opening experience.

When my dad gets those emails he always replies back saying he is fully willing to help. If the prince will just tell him where he lives he will come visit him to get things wrapped up.

[Mist]

17. In what's supposed to be a democracy, a Pres. is as bad as Congress allows. Bush,

Cheney, et al are despicable human beings, but the compliant Congress has to take the blame, IMHO.

[Oeditpus Rex]

19. Bush *wishes* he were Hitler

That is, he wishes he had Hitler's unbridled power, but not for the same reasons. Hitler wanted to wipe out an entire race of people and control the planet; Bush just wants neocon control of the planet, in the sense of the PNAC mantra, "What is good for America is good for the world." He is not, by intention, an exterminator. He does believe that some lives must be sacrificed to gain the control he seeks, but that makes him no different, in that sense, than most military officers who've ever participated in battle, actively or passively.

Bush isn't even the Evil One. That distinction goes to Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz et al — the fathers of the PNAC and its plans for global political and economic domination. Bush is merely their front man, the only one of them who was electable to represent them to this nation. He believes in their mission, but he is their servant, not their master.

[weezy2736]

22. Thank you very much.

It is very easy to lose sight of what history has taught us.

[elehhhhna]

23. Pickles, just post under your own name, m'kay? We know it's you.

[mmonk]

24. From a world standpoint instead of a domestic one,

he is quite bad and will be remembered as so. That doesn't mean his legacy is as bad as Hitler's. But it also means just because he isn't murdering groups of people inside the US, he is ok from an outside view.

[Stuart G]

25. Worse than you think.........

Perhaps we, or some of you, may live to know the truth. (perhaps none of us will ever know)
.. Efforts to destroy the Constitution that people do not know of yet..
More lies.. also hard to believe...His stupor could be seizures..which would mean he has been totally ineffective and incapable of doing anything, but press conferences, for the last 4 or 5 years..Will it ever come out?. All of it?
..How long did it take for the total public to know of FDR's total disabilities?
..How long for Wilson's incapacity to become known?

[JackRiddler]

26. Mobsters are mobsters, this isn't the atrocity playoffs.

[rAVES]

33. I'm sorry.. so what "world" standard do I judge by?

[underseasurveyor]

34. HE IS THE WORST pRESIDENT EVER!!!!

haven't you seen the teeshirts?

[live love laugh]

35. Bush has torn AMERICA to shreds--this country is not what it was 8 years ago

It's in worse condition than at any other time in history almost and the deterioration has been rapid and it will be long lasting.

While other leaders may be worse in THEIR countries, the claims about Bush hold true for this country. He is the WORST.PRESIDENT.EVER.

[trusty elf]

37. He's unpretzeldented.

[Orsino]

38. He's kind of like Saddam and Hitler, but without the leadership ability.

He's a puppet.

[treestar]

39. It's the circumstances

We are in fact lucky we are where we are and not in Weimar Germany. The underlying authoritarianism is the same, the opportunity to exercise it isn't there for *. But he would take it (or Cheney would) if he could, and it is not as if he doesn't try.

You're talking about the governments of the various countries and comparing them, not the leaders.

Authoritarians like Cheney and * envy the leaders of those other countries, and try to get the chance to be like them. It is up to us not to give in to their attempts, by giving in to fear. Just yesterday they were condeming the Supreme Court decision that habeas is not dead and that human beings accused of something have rights to a hearing, etc.