WetStart McNASTY gets booed at "21"

[UTUSN]

*******QUOTE*******

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06142008/gossip/pagesix/booing_mccain_115402.htm

BOOING MCCAIN

June 14, 2008 -- John McCain was surprised when he stepped out of his car outside '21' for his fund-raiser with Henry Kravis the other night and got loudly booed by a well-dressed, white- haired, suburban-looking couple. McCain flashed his famous frozen grin and hustled inside, but he had to wonder what he'd done to deserve such a razzing from people who looked like his core voters. The duo turned out to be gay activists Ann Northrop and Andy Humm, fresh from taping their "Gay USA" national cable TV show, who were on their way to an anti-McCain demonstration down the block. "It was pretty satisfying to be able to show McCain how we feel about his consistent opposition to rights for gays and lesbians and people with AIDS," said Northrop.

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As for what "WetStart" means:


*******QUOTE*******

Google Search on "McCain Forrestal": http://www.google.com/search?q=McCain+Forrestal&sourcei...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire

The rocket flew across the flight deck, striking a wing-mounted external fuel tank on an A-4 Skyhawk, either Aircraft No. 405 piloted by LCDR Fred D. White<1> or No. 416 piloted by future Arizona Senator, LCDR John McCain,<4> which were waiting to launch.<3> The warhead's safety mechanism prevented it from detonating, but the impact tore the tank off the wing and ignited the resulting spray of pressurized fuel, causing an instantaneous conflagration. The heat caused additional fuel tanks to overheat, rupture and spew volatile jet fuel onto the deck, feeding the flames. Huge gusts of fire shot into the air along the flight deck, trapping pilots in their aircraft with no recourse but to escape through the flames or be incinerated in their cockpits. LCDR Fred D. White, waiting to launch in Aircraft No. 405, leaped out of his burning Skyhawk in an attempt to escape the inferno, but was killed instantly (along with many firefighters) by the cooking off of the first bomb. LCDR Herbert A. Hope of VA-46 (and operations officer of CVW-17) jumped out of the cockpit of his Skyhawk between explosions, rolled off the flight deck and into the starboard man-overboard net. Making his way down below to the hangar deck, he took command of a firefighting team. "The port quarter of the flight deck where I was" he recalled, "is no longer there."<3> With his aircraft surrounded by flames, McCain escaped by climbing out of the cockpit, walking down the nose and jumping off the refueling probe.


http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message503422/...

The claim has been made:

"Surviving crewmen and those who investigated the Forrestal fire case reported that McCain deliberately 'wet-started' his A-4E Skyhawk to shake up the guy in the F-4 Phantom behind his A-4. 'Wet-starts', done either deliberately (the starter motor switch allowed kerosene to pool in the engine and give a wet start) or accidentally, shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft.

"134 sailors were killed on the USS Forrestal in 1967.

It is believed by many crewmen and investigators that John McCain deliberately 'wet-started' his A-4E to shake up the guy in the plane behind his A-4. 'Wet-starts' shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft.

In McCain's case, the 'wet-start' apparently 'cooked off' and launched the Zuni rocket from the rear F-4 that touched off the explosions."



http://tekgnosis.typepad.com/tekgnosis/2008/02/john-mcc...

Incompetence Or A Stunt

'Wet-starts', done either deliberately (the starter motor switch allowed kerosene to pool in the engine and give a wet start) or accidentally, shoot a large flame from the tail of the aircraft. 'Wet starting' was a common practice among young 'hot-dog' pilots.

Zuni Rockets Were Volatile Design

In McCain's case, the 'wet-start' 'cooked off' and launched the M34 Zuni rocket from the rear F-4 that punctured the Skyhawk's fueltank, knocked the M-65 1000 lb bomb off it's 500 lb rated mount, and touched off the explosions and massive fire.

McCain Was Shufled Out In A Hurry

The F-4 pilot was reportedly killed in the conflagration, along with 167 of his fellow Forrestal shipmates. McCain was quickly (they were still counting the Forrestal dead) transferred to the USS Oriskany (the only Forrestal crewman to be immediately transferred).

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[pt22]

1. Gay USA next on Dish network, channel 9415 is 1 pm CDT today

:D

[havocmom]

2. Ah, thanks for proof that his disregard for the welfare, safety of military personnel is life long

and not just a recent aberration.

Just another spoiled kid who never grew up and never developed any judgment. We do not need another puppet like bush. The neocons/corportists sure seem to like the profile of the party-boy fortunate son who seems to have some serious problems with parents. That type must be SO EASY to manipulate by playing to their unresolved infantile hate of their local authority (parent).

Total disregard of life, of military personnel, of common human decency.

[acmavm]

3. Ah, you must have missed that pitiful whiney memo that's going around

about not 'swiftboating' McCrazy or even dissing him in any way related to his military record. No matter that he's more than likely responsible for the destruction of the Forrestal and the deaths that occurred, no matter that he (even he admits) collaborated with the enemy (Viet Cong) for special treatment, no matter that he got 28 medals for his military service (and the requirement that independent testimony of his bravery and bad-assedness was dropped for him alone) and he only flew for 20 months, no matter that one of his first act out of the gate as a politician was to almost land in prison for helping Charles Keating, JUST DON'T SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT THE GUY, DO YOUR HEAR????

:sarcasm:

[Poiuyt]

4. I agree

I never heard that he might be responsible for the Forrestal incident.

[daninthemoon]

5. I hadn't heard anything about it. Is this verifiable? Any military folks

out there? Is this half as bad as it sounds?

[UTUSN]

10. A Google Search link is included in the quotations. Inside that, I only linked to

the first few links, only skimming to get the bare bones of the event. Other than that, there are hundreds (thousands) of other links, among which there must be many that satisfy the pickiest of standards.

[nashville_brook]

8. word.

[roguevalley]

12. yeah, like he has a pass. he doesn't.

[ruggerson]

6. Ann Northrop is an American hero

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Northrop

[Mimosa]

11. Ann Northrop is NOT 'an American hero'

Lots of us were feminists and active in gay rights. Not all were from privileged backgrounds, some were. As a gay rights activist I'd say the condom tossing clownish display at St. Patrick's cathedral HURT the gay cause more than any other tactic, and I wouldn't be alone. 'Booing' John McSame at a restaurant is on the same childish and ineffectual level of protest.

Dining at 21 with her economic peers such as Senator McCain: very capitalist of Ms. Northrop.

[UTUSN]

17. Uh, it was OUTSIDE "21" & she wasn't dining, was ON THE WAY down the block n/t

[ruggerson]

20. You weren't dying because of Cardinal O'Connor

The condom tossing was led by Act Up and was designed to show that O'Connor was a murderer. It was an AIDS protest, not necessarily a gay one.

And what does privileged or non privileged background have to do with anything?

[FightingIrish]

7. There seems to be a lot of controversy about McCain's role

in the Forrestal disaster. The Wikipedia article on the Forrestal tragedy has a diagram showing that McCain's a-4 was not in a position to trigger the event. The most damning suggestion that even that might be part of a cover-up is McCain's rapid departure from the ship. As a naval aviator, he was assigned to a squadron that would have remained intact even after the fire. His rapid transfer to the Oriskany suggests that strings were pulled and one has to ask why there was such urgency to get a sub-par aviator back into combat.

[jmowreader]

13. He was the admiral's son...

I'm not going into all that "John McCain sank the Forrestal all by himself" tinfoil stuff...but it DOES occur to me that McCain was the son of an admiral, and the Forrestal was going into damage-control mode for a very long time. I think they decided they didn't want the prince here crying about how hard he had to work, and just removed him from the ship before he got the chance to piss off a shipmate who would just beat the shit out of him and throw him in the ocean.

[TexasObserver]

9. McCain is still a dangerous hot dog. He recently peeled out in a Corvette.

Don't recall who he was with, maybe Jay Leno, but he recently drove and peeled out badly in a Corvette. He thinks he's a hot shot, just like his best buddy Dubya.

[cherokeeprogressive]

14. I can't believe that bullshit like this goes unchallenged. I thought we were better than that.

There was NO F-4 parked behind McSame's A-4. That's now how the flight deck is organized. I worked on three different flight decks. I've seen the footage umpteen times in naval firefighting training classes. McSame's bird was behind the port waist catapult and was parked TOW. You can look that acronym up yourself.

You posted some seriously funny shit. "Walking down the nose and jumping off of the refueling probe". Have you ever been close to an A-4?

I'm a Democrat who will vote for a Democrat. I was also a flight deck sailor. I know that what you posted is wrong on its very face when it comes to "wet starts" and his wanting to "shake up" an F-4 driver who was parked behind him. It's rubbish and I can't believe no one else has called it that.

The Zuni came from an airplane parked on the starboard side FACING McSame's a/c. It was set off by stray voltage.

[UTUSN]

15. Do you imagine that I *wrote* the quotations?!1 I Googled & linked.

And I skimmed the first few links. I didn't go further than that and I didn't find anything that contradicted these links in that first batch.


Feel free to provide documentation (that would be "links") for YOUR *assertions*. There is NOTHING in what you say EXCEPT your saying it. In the meantime, I will continue to post the quotations and links.



Funny how turning the rockets on other Dems is default attack posture, as opposed to aiming at Rethugs!1

[cherokeeprogressive]

19. See if you can use this diagram to find the F-4 that was parked BEHIND McSame's A-4

http://www.skyhawk.org/flattops/forrestaldeck.htm

[UTUSN]

23. For my response to your dripping contempt, see if you can use my post #22 n/t

[Obamanaut]

21. You are absolutely correct

This link shows parked acft, all TOW. With positions as shown, there is no exhaust of any acft on any of the others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forrest_Fire

<snip> About 10:50 (local time) on the 29th, while preparations for a second strike were being made near 19°9′5″N, 107°23′5″E,<3> an unguided 5-inch Mk-32 "Zuni" rocket, one of four contained in a LAU-10 underwing rocket pod mounted on an F-4 Phantom II, was accidentally fired due to an electrical power surge during the switch from external power to internal power.<more>

<snip>Although investigators could not identify the exact chain of events behind the carnage, they revealed potential maintenance issues including concerns in circuitry (stray voltage) associated with LAU-10 rocket launchers and Zunis, as well as the age of the 1,000 pound "fat bombs" loaded for the strike, shards from one of which dated it originally to the Korean War in 1953.<3>
Safety regulations should have prevented the Zuni rocket from firing. A triple ejector rack (TER) electrical safety pin prevented any electrical signal from reaching the rockets but it was known that high winds could sometimes catch the attached tags and blow them free. The backup was the “pigtail” connection of the electrical wiring to the rockets pod. Regulations required they be connected only when the aircraft was attached to the catapult ready to launch. The Navy investigation found that four weeks before the fire the Forrestal’s Weapons Coordination Board had a meeting to discuss the possible problem of a faulty pigtail delaying a mission while the aircraft was removed from the launcher. The board ruled that in the future the crew could ignore protocol and connect the pigtails while the aircraft were still queued. Though never made official, the crew immediately acted on the ruling. The inquiry found that the TER pin was likely blown free while the pigtail was connected and that the missile fired due to a power surge when the pilot transferred his systems from external to internal power.

[UTUSN]

22. So you re-posted the link *I* posted, the one your pal (above) objected to

where he said, "You posted some seriously funny shit. 'Walking down the nose and jumping off of the refueling probe". Have you ever been close to an A-4?'


So, which is it?!1 Is the (my same) Wikipedia link reliable or not? It doesn't fault WetStart McNASTY specifically, but the other links raise, at least, questions about his behaviors.


So, if he didn't "walk down the nose & jump off the refueling probe," HOW did he escape? What happened to the other pilots is described, so if THIS PART of the SAME link is wrong about him, where are the links you two can find about him?


What about his rapid transfer? Where are the links?!1 The subject is WetStart McNASTY.


Now, to be clear, I claim ZERO expertise regarding Airdales, flight decks, and piloting. I was on two Navy SUPPLY ships, and my direct experience was limited to what was in front of me, not studying all other types of service under the sun.

The two of you are MISSING THE POINT. My entire mission in life between now and November is to dig up ALL THE CRAP I can regarding WetStart McNASTY and to SPREAD it. Your diagrams do not address McNASTY's behavior. More interestingly, I would like to know why the military continued to shove millions worth of aircraft at both McNASTY and Poppy Shrub for them to continue crashing them.

[Swamp Rat]

16. Crashy McCrash is bad luck.

[seemslikeadream]

18. Now that Timmy is gone who will report this?

[backscatter712]

24. Spread this around. I don't care if it's true or not.

This is payback for what those bastards did to Kerry, and what they are doing to Obama.

Drag Wetstart McCain's name through the mud. I want to see McCain squirm.