Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

“Integrity is for paupers!”

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:15 AM
Original message
“Integrity is for paupers!”
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 11:35 AM by seemslikeadream
http://makethemaccountable.com/podvin/media/020109_Russert.htm

In 1992, shortly after being named moderator of Meet The
Press, Tim Russert was having lunch with a broadcast
executive. The mealtime conversation was about the pros and
cons of working for General Electric’s NBC subsidiary.
Russert expounded on how being employed by GE had brought him
to the realization that things functioned better when
Republicans were in charge.

“You know, Tim, you used to be such a rabid Democrat when you
worked for Pat Moynihan,” said the executive. “But now that
you’ve gotten a glimpse of who’s handing out the money in
this business, you’ve become quite the Jaycee. Were you wrong
about everything you used to believe so strongly?”

“I still believe,” Russert said, leaning across the table. “I
believe in everything I ever did. But I also know that I never
would have become moderator on Meet The Press if my employers
were uncomfortable with me. And, given the amount of money at
stake, millions of dollars, I don’t blame them. This is
business.”

The executive agreed. “But are you concerned about losing
yourself? You know, selling out?”

Russert pounded the table. “Integrity is for paupers!”

When Tim Russert joined NBC News in 1984, he began a personal
transformation from Democratic congressional aide to
broadcaster-in-charge of General Electric’s political
interests. His early efforts for the network drew some
criticism from the GE corporate suites as being “too knee
jerk”, a euphemism for “insufficiently pro-GE/ Republican”.
The executives at General Electric viewed with hostility the
Democratic Party that wanted to burden them with obeying laws
that the company preferred to break and complying with
regulations that it preferred to ignore. While Republicans
turned a blind eye to the serial environmental crimes and
bribery committed by GE, the Democrats were less submissive.
The company was especially upset that the Democratic Party
had taken a position against transferring public ownership of
the broadcast airwaves to the media conglomerates.

The ambitious Russert soon learned that, in order to climb
the ladder at NBC News, he had to please two sets of
managers: the news executives who were ostensibly his bosses,
and the employers of the news executives. In the years that
followed, he refined the strategy to ingratiating himself to
General Electric Chairman Jack Welch.

For much of the eighties, Russert coordinated specials on
summits and foreign policy related topics. His breakthrough
performance occurred in 1990, when he oversaw the production
of the prime time special, “A Day In The Life Of President
Bush”. The show was so worshipful and fawning that one
embarrassed production assistant referred to it as “Deep
Throat: The Missing Footage”. By this time, however, Russert
had figured out that only one opinion counted. Jack Welch
loved the program, telling an associate that it “hit just the
right note”.

When the moderator position on Meet The Press needed to be
filled in 1991, Russert was chosen from on high. The show had
been struggling in the ratings, earning less than a million
dollars a year. The new moderator changed the format,
eliminating the panel and turning America’s longest running
program into The Tim Russert Show. The revised philosophy of
Meet The Press was borrowed from the book Animal Farm: All
Guests Are Equal, But Some Guests Are More Equal Than Others.
The more equal ones, who all coincidentally had an “R” appear
after their names on the show’s graphics, were asked
questions about policy and the moral shortcomings of the
opposition party. The lesser equals were usually challenged
to disassociate themselves from issues (liberal) and
individuals (Democrats) that Russert found to be lacking in
virtue.

In 1992, Russert enthusiastically led the media frenzy about
the relationship between Gennifer Flowers and Democratic
presidential nominee Bill Clinton, but he refused to report
about a similar relationship between incumbent Republican
President George Bush and Jennifer Fitzgerald. Four years
later, Russert focused on questions about Clinton
fundraising, while studiously ignoring the lengthy record of
well-documented influence peddling by Republican nominee Bob
Dole.

Throughout 2000, with less pretense of objectivity than ever,
Russert dutifully echoed the Republican theme that the
Democratic nominee was “dishonest”. Week after week, the
topic on Meet The Press was the “repeated lying” of Al Gore.
One lowlight of Russert’s descent into shameless propagandist
occurred when it was revealed that George W. Bush had been
convicted of drunk driving in Maine, thereby proving that the
Republican candidate had been deceitful when he was questioned
about whether he had ever been arrested.

Russert’s immediate response on national television was, “The
question on everybody’s mind is, ‘Did the Gore campaign have
something to do with the release of this information?’”

That was not the question on everybody’s mind; a poll taken
immediately after the revelation showed that most Americans
did not believe that Gore was involved.

It was, however, the question being faxed nationally by the
Republicans in a memo circulated to their operatives who were
responsible for diverting attention from the fact that their
candidate was guilty of, for want of a better term, “repeated
lying”.

As media mogul and future Fox network founder Rupert Murdoch
noticed, Russert’s brazenly partisan approach attracted large
numbers of white male viewers. In 2000, Meet The Press earned
a $50 million profit for General Electric, which was sixty
times more than when Russert was named moderator.

During the 2000 presidential campaign, Russert established a
link between Meet The Press and the G.O.P. opposition
research team that was responsible for digging up
dirt/manufacturing dirt on Al Gore. On election night, after
conferring with Welch, Russert demanded that Gore quit the
race before the legally mandated recount took place in
Florida. The next morning, on the Today Show, he repeated the
demand. During the recount, Russert actively campaigned for
Bush, going so far as to insist that Democratic vice
presidential candidate Joe Lieberman endorse the counting of
illegally cast military ballots that would benefit George W.

There have been reports from those who were present that
journalist Tim Russert was wearing a Bush For President lapel
pin when he attended the traditional Al Smith Dinner in New
York shortly before the election. This should be interpreted
as less of an endorsement than a brownnosing. Russert was
accompanied by Welch, who was a strong supporter of Bush and
completely intolerant of dissent on the matter.

During the Lewinsky episode, Russert latched onto the sexual
aspect of the scandal with obsessive fervor. When the story
appeared to be running out of steam, he showed America his
creative side. The following was written by Martin Schram of
the Nando Times:

I was especially dismayed to hear Russert present what
sounded like a misbegotten Virtual Scoop:

"There are lots of suggestions coming out of people
close to Ken Starr that perhaps the Secret Service
'facilitated' for President Clinton. Remember that code word
-- it was used about the state troopers in Little Rock ...
Was the Secret Service -- was a Secret Service agent -- an
accomplice in trying to cover up a relationship with Monica
Lewinsky?"

Sounds like a major, unsavory exclusive report from a source
in the independent counsel's office -- that the Secret
Service was pimping for a president of the United States.

But rewind and rethink. We only heard Russert say there were
"suggestions" from people "close to"
Starr that "perhaps" an agent had facilitated in
the president's philandering. Were these
"suggestions" based on any substantial evidence or
proof obtained by the independent counsel? Or was it just a
prayerful hope of someone in Starr's office who hates Clinton
but has not a shred of evidence that this might have happened?
Which of course means that it would be a journalistic outrage
to air the story if that was all it was.

Now fast-forward. It is midday, on MSNBC, the all-news cable
channel. Behind the scenes, Starr's spokesman, Charles
Bakaly, has called Russert, and Russert has conceded the
source wasn't in Starr's office; it was a congressional
source. Which means it may have been a political opponent of
the president -- who may or may not know if there is any
substantive indication that such a thing had occurred.

Now, on MSNBC's regular noontime show, "Investigating
the President," Russert sounds like he is just repeating
his morning scoop. But he actually tells a much different,
much weaker version -- while never indicating that he is
issuing a correction:

"This morning I reported that congressional sources had
told NBC News that Ken Starr is very interested in finding
out" what Secret Service agents may have done -- as
"accomplices" in a "cover-up."

Wait! This is more than just saying the source was
"congressional"; now Russert is saying that Starr
is merely "interested in finding out" if any agent
had facilitated on behalf of the president. Well, of course
he is! And so am I! But it is not newsworthy that either
Starr or I want to ask these questions. It would only be news
if either Starr or I had proof that this happened.

Fast-forward again. On NBC's "Nightly News,"
Russert reports live from the White House lawn: "Members
of Congress have been talking to investigators, people,
lawyers associated with the grand jury, people who are free
to talk"-- what the heck does all that mean? --
"and they are coming to some conclusions that perhaps
Secret Service agents may have been, quote,
facilitating." (Again, just perhaps.)

"We don't know whether that's Republican spin, partisan
spin, ideological spin, or there's a germ of evidence."

Translation: We don't have any idea whether any of this is
true. But we've spent all day raising the smarmy specter that
the Secret Service may have been pimping for the president --
just as the president's political opponents hoped we would.
Even though we didn't have a germ of evidence that it was
true.

Mr. Schram is an excessively generous man, lavishing the
undeserved benefit of the doubt on Russert in a situation
where there is no doubt. This was not a “misbegotten virtual
scoop”. It was a lie. What was happening has been on public
display countless times before: Tim Russert was acting as an
operative for the political interests of the multinational
corporation that keeps him fat and happy.

The spectacular rewards of manipulating the public for GE
were realized in 2001, when Russert received a new contract
worth tens of millions of dollars. The wages of sin have been
huge, while the cost has been the negligible loss of whatever
integrity he might have once possessed. He is not an
objective journalist; he is a partisan deceiver. He
exaggerates Democratic wrongdoing, going to the extreme of
inventing criminal behavior. Conversely, he has been
unrelentingly oblivious to all Republican scandals; his
infinite fascination with the missing intern in the case of
Democrat Gary Condit was accompanied by total disinterest in
the dead intern who was found on the office floor of
Republican Joe Scarbrough. Russert spent years obsessing
about an ill fated land deal called Whitewater that involved
a couple of hundred thousand dollars, but he remains
indifferent to the multi-trillion dollar taxpayer funded
kickbacks that George W. Bush has been ladling out to his
campaign contributors.

Russert has every right to serve General Electric and its
chosen political party, but truth in advertising mandates
that he should never appear on television without having “We
Bring Good Things To Life” emblazoned on his forehead.

The saga of Tim Russert is not unique, or even uncommon. With
minor changes, it could be the story of Peter Jennings, or
Brit Hume, or Jim Lehrer, ad nauseum. This is the modern
reality of the mainstream media: those who dutifully conform
to the company line and deceitfully ignore any facts that are
incompatible with increasing corporate profits are compensated
with vast fortunes, while whatever democracy remains in this
country struggles to survive without a free press and an
informed electorate.

The founders of America conceived of a nation with an
unregulated flow of information that would provide the
citizenry with access to the knowledge they needed to govern
themselves. That patriotic vision has been distorted by the
huge conglomerates that control the mainstream media, and by
journalistic prostitutes like Tim Russert, who corrupt our
society with their eagerness to pervert the truth in exchange
for personal wealth.
Podvin on the Media

CHOCOLATES AND NYLONS, SIR?

By David Podvin




on edit
The excerpt below is posted with the full permission, even encouragement, of the author, who wants his essays to be read by as many people as possible.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x300006
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks for posting this artlcle by itself. I read it within another thread earlier today. The only
thing that bothers me is that Podvin doesn't source where he got the quote "integrity is for paupers". I did a search after I read it and couldn't find it except where it is attributed to this article.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. You damned grave pisser!
:evilgrin: :sarcasm: K & R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I had to go really bad
couldn't hold it any longer
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Please - don't even joke about it.
That phrase is being used outrageously, to beat down any clarity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. ok ok you are right.
!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. That's exactly what's happening. Clarity is bad. Blind canonization is good.
Quick, look over there!!! Shiny object!:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
4. I had never heard that.
That's Comfortable Fascism for ya.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. was Podvin at the next table over?
did he hear it from someone who was there?

Normally a writer would say how he knows Russert said that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Well he wrote it 1/9/02
Russert had time to refute it, I can't find that anywhere, yet.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. It is important that the author cite his sources for this
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. You're asking for, like, *proof* and stuff that Russert ever said that?
You must be a tool of the reich-wing death machine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111! :grr:

:sarcasm:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I believe Podvin
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 12:07 PM by seemslikeadream
his lies and cover ups didn't lead us to war and the killing of 4000 soldiers and 1 million Iraqis



and he hasn't made millions doing it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. That's not how it works, sport. "I believe" all sorts of things - I can *assert* only those things
for which I have evidence. And your OP doesn't. It really is that simple.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. if Timmy was upset about the quote
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 12:23 PM by seemslikeadream
he would have challenged it, sport


He had 6 years to do it
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. So, once again you offer no proof that this conversation took place, just assume Russert was (1)
aware that this trivial little punk at a website somewhere had written some junk about him, and (2) decided not to "challenge it" because it was true?

Wow - and you're challenging Russert's credibility? What a joke. :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. OH YES I AM CHALLENGING RUSSERTS CREDIBILITY
ABSOLUTELY
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. *STILL* no source for this supposed conversation, eh? About what I figured.
:thumbsdown:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. Now just silly name-calling. Still no credible source, eh? Figures.
:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Hummmmmmmmmm very strange how you take up the lying media POV
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #44
52. Hmmmmmmmmmmm very strange how you are unable to provide a credible source for your
assertions. But then, not so strange when one considers your credibility meter is straining at zero.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. I'll put my credibility up against yours any day here buddy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #54
60. You would be unwise to do that - I back up my assertions with proof. You do not.
It really is that simple.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Show me ONE post you have made
PROOF
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #62
67. Still no evidence to back up your OP, eh? About what I figured...
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #67
87. And when asked for proof about one you've made
You produce jack shit. You're a donor, you could easily search for one.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 05:28 AM
Response to Reply #67
121. What's Funny is You Have Nothing
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #44
65. Total Freeper Arguing Tactic
Challenge everything put in front of them. There's no way that you, personally, can verify Podvin's account without the contacts of every major network executive in the 1990s, can you?

Would you be surprised to know I had to log out to see who you were arguing with?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. LOL
I know I just was a little busy watching paint dry
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. So, I can make up any conversation I want and not provide proof for it and that's okey-dokey, eh?
Riggghhhhtttt.... :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Imagine that: providing proof for one's assertions is now considered a "freeper" tactic...
:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. Name calling?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Still no credible source, huh? About what I reckoned. n/t.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Podvin is credible
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Not without proof, he's not. n/t.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Tim Russert let bush lie us into a war THAT IS UNDENIABLE
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Trying to change the subject does not alter the fact that your credibility is zero, since you refuse
to provide proof for your assertions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. They aren't MY assertions
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 12:52 PM by seemslikeadream
You sound so familiar are you sure we haven't met before?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. Still waiting on that post where you provide evidence for your assertions.
:boring: :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #61
81. The only "proof" needed:
Was Tim Russert aware the statement "integrity is for paupers" had been attributed to him?

You have never ONCE addressed this issue. It just isn't believable that a journalist with his credentials and experience would be unaware of it.

And if he WAS aware of it and it was a fabrication, why didn't he debunk it? As moderator of Meet the Press for so many years, he certainly had the bully pulpit if anyone did!

Most of the time, it's impossible to prove a negative but in this particular case, not so much. This time, the burden of proof is on YOU to address the issue of why Tim Russert didn't refute the statement if it had been wrongly attributed to him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. Wrong - the burden of proof is in on the one making the assertion. Period.
At least it is in the real, adult world - I don't know about your universe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #48
78. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #78
83. Yeah, asking for *evidence* for a charge or assertion made is just such a burden, just like Bush
says when he imprisons folks down in GITMO without trial...

:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #84
85. Yes ye of failure to understand how things work in the world of grown-ups:
asking for evidence or solid proof of a claim made is not "nit-picking" - otherwise there would be no such thing as trials and courts and libel laws.

Love the personal attacks, BTW - :rofl: They say much more about you than they do me: keep 'em coming. :thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #84
86. "alleged" quote?
are you doubting David Podvin? :wow:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #24
115. What credibility?
Russert was a credible water carrier for the war mongering Bush administration. Beyond that, he had no credibility.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. and please remember who has made millions of this war and who Timmy's employer was
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 12:24 PM by seemslikeadream
sport
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Did Timmy "believe" in WMDs in Iraq? It really is that simple, sport
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 12:27 PM by seemslikeadream
where was HIS proof of that?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. No, sport, it's really this simple: where is the referenced source for this supposed conversation?
Can you provide it, or can you not? It really is that simple.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Yes sport is really is that simple
Where was Timmy's evidence that there were WMDs? Did he do all that he could to find out if bush was telling the truth? NO HE DID NOT, THAT WAS HIS JOG
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Still no credible source, eh? So we try to change the subject. Typical.
:thumbsdown:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. No sport Podvin IS credible
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. No, he's not - not without a verification of his source for this conversation.
This "he said so" garbage closes out of town with credible folks - which is why you're anxious to change the subject to something else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. I am NOT changing the subject
The subject is credibility, a sell out media whore, YOU brought up credibility
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. You bet you are - or at least trying to. The "subject" is the source for this supposed conversation
Russert had back in 1992. You have yet provide one, other than some asshat on a website somewhere just saying it happened. Your credibility is zilch.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. RUSSERT DID NOT REFUTE IT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #43
56. Still not a single shred of credible evidence to post, eh? Typical.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. It's getting old sweetie is this how you got your post count up so fast?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #58
64. Yeah, getting real old that you still refuse to provide *PROOF* for your assertions.
But I got all day to wait... :rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #64
66. ALL DAY TO GET THAT POST COUNT UP?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #66
74. ALL DAY TO PROVIDE PROOF FOR YOUR OP?
I won't be holding my breath... :rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Could you please show me where YOU challenged bush on his WMD lies?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. This isn't about *ME*, sport - but I well understand why you're anxious to change the subject.
You've been busted with an OP that is simply not credible. I'd be anxious to change the subject, too. :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Show me ONE example where Podvin was proven wrong about anything
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Sorry, sport, but that's not how it works in the real world: the onus is on the one making the claim
to provide proof for their assertions. Neither you nor this asshat "Podvin" are capable of doing so when it comes to this matter. The "conversation" you describe in your OP is not a credible account.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. WHY THE MEDIA LIES
WHY THE MEDIA LIES

By David Podvin

First Paragraph
The obscure but decisive factor of the 2000 presidential election was the issue of concentration of power in broadcasting. The huge conglomerates that own the networks and the big city newspapers desperately wanted to eliminate the federal regulation prohibiting one corporation from owning both the broadcast stations and the newspapers in a city. Al Gore and the Democratic Party supported the existing regulation, which was enacted to prevent a corporation from gaining a monopoly on a city’s media. George W. Bush and the Republican Party supported repealing the regulation, which would mean HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars in profits to the big media companies.

The mystery is solved. For the past several years, many Democrats have been wondering why the mainstream media, the “liberal media”, has been so consistently pro-Republican. There is no conspiracy involved, just shared financial interests. This has led to a consistent media bias that has promoted the double standard which holds that what’s acceptable when done by Republicans is intolerable when done by Democrats. The impeachment charade was a classic example. While polls consistently showed that two thirds of Americans wanted the vendetta to be stopped, the corporate press marched in lockstep with Tom DeLay, Henry Hyde, and the various other perjurers and adulterers who were obsessively pursuing the President for perjury and adultery. Not coincidentally, these same Republican Congressional leaders were advocates for the changes in the federal regulation that would greatly benefit the media elite.

The extreme pro-GOP bias of the broadcast networks and influential metropolitan newspapers was most evident during the 2000 presidential campaign. Leading up to the political conventions, a survey revealed that Bush had received almost twice as much favorable coverage as Gore.

After George W. Bush’s acceptance speech, the mainstream media was virtually universal in its praise that Bush had helped himself with a strong performance. After Al Gore’s acceptance speech, the same media analysts declared that he had marginalized himself with a presentation that they described as being “awkward” and “extreme”. Yet public opinion polls revealed that the net result of the two speeches was exactly the opposite of what the corporate pundits were claiming; the double-digit lead that Bush had held for months evaporated completely.

Why were the mainstream media perceptions of the candidates so at variance with reality? Please refer to the First Paragraph.

During the first debate, Al Gore told three vignettes. He said that he had visited the site of a Texas fire with the director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency. It turned out that the fire was in Florida. He also spoke about an elderly woman who collected cans in order to pay for her medicine, and a high school girl who stood in class due to a lack of chairs. The woman and the student both confirmed that his stories were true.

During the first debate, George W. Bush said that his prescription drug plan covered all senior citizens. He said that his tax cut would not disproportionately benefit the rich. He said that his Social Security proposal would include sufficient funding to maintain all current benefits. He said that his proposed economic plan would achieve a balanced budget. He said that he had signed hate crime legislation in Texas. He said that the Clinton administration had not enacted a middle class tax cut. All of these statements were untrue.

The mainstream media spent the next week focusing on Al Gore’s anecdotes and falsely accusing him of being a liar. If you were one of millions of Americans who watched this surrealistic farce in stunned amazement, and you still can’t figure out what the hell was going on, then please refer to the First Paragraph.

It is true that the editorial boards of the “liberal” New York Times and the “liberal” Washington Post endorsed Al Gore. Far more meaningfully, however, was the vicious, dishonest day-to-day coverage of the Democratic nominee by beat writers Katherine (Kit) Seelye of the Times and Cici Connolly of the Post. These reporters presented their readers with half-truths, lies, and negative editorial commentary that were presented as “objective news coverage”.

They were in the vanguard of falsely labeling Gore a “serial liar” for, among other things, joking that his favorite childhood lullaby was Look For The Union Label. Both Seelye and Connolly leapt at the chance to reveal that Gore was an adult when the song was written. They were unwilling to let go of their proof that this was the latest example of the Vice President’s psychotic penchant for deceit, even after real reporters interviewed members of the audience at the Gore speech in question and verified that he was joking.

Seelye and Connolly also accused Gore of lying about being the inspiration for the character of Oliver in the book Love Story.

They were not swayed when the author, Erich Segall, said that Gore really was the inspiration for Oliver.

It didn’t matter. With America’s “newspapers of record” definitively stating that Gore was a liar, then Gore was a liar, regardless of the facts.

Why would two major newspaper corporations with reputations for being liberal want to deliberately sabotage Gore? Please refer to the First Paragraph.

Throughout the entire campaign, the media refused to thoroughly examine the record of George W. Bush as governor of Texas. They failed to report on the financial mess that he created with a big tax cut for oil companies that has resulted in a large state budget deficit. They chose not to report on his many highly questionable business dealings, ranging from insider trading at Harken Energy to leaching off of the taxpayers while running the Texas Rangers. They deliberately ignored the videotape of an obviously drunken Bush at a wedding that was recorded years after he claimed to have quit drinking. They chose not to focus on charges of influence peddling that were made against Bush in regard to his involvement with the funeral industry in Texas. When his carefully concealed drunk driving arrest became public, they responded by blaming Al Gore for conspiring to embarrass Bush. In summary, the mainstream press was impervious to negative facts about their candidate.

Why would the multinational communications corporations behave so unethically? Please refer to the First Paragraph.

During the Florida recount, the mainstream press almost uniformly backed Bush. This began on election night, when Tim Russert of General Electric’s NBC News began calling for Gore to concede even before the legally mandated recount had started.

It continued through the entire process, with the media demanding that every presumably pro-Bush military vote be counted whether or not it had been legally cast. There was no such moral indignation towards the massive Republican campaign to deprive African Americans of the right to vote that has been thoroughly documented by the BBC.

It ended with the major media speaking in unison to insist that Americans “get over” the fact that a partisan and corrupt Supreme Court violated every previous ruling that the Republican majority had ever made involving states’ rights. Best-selling author Vincent Bugliosi has been all over the airwaves with his book about the O.J. Simpson case. He has not been provided a similar opportunity to promote his book that documents the hypocrisy and dishonesty of the Supreme Court decision that stole the election for Bush.

And it goes on, with the Disney/ABC program Nightline and the News Corporation program Fox News Sunday declaring that Bush won fair and square, and portraying black Floridians who claim that their voting rights were violated as being delusional malcontents.

Why would General Electric, Disney, and News Corp., three of the biggest media conglomerates in the world, violate all journalistic standards of objectivity and take sides as they have? Please refer to the First Paragraph.

The relationship between the administration of George W. Bush and the mainstream media has resembled an episode of The Andy Griffith Show in which Otis the Town Drunk tries to get himself thrown in jail, but regardless of what he does, Deputy Barney Fife refuses to arrest him. No matter how much material for scandal Bush provides, the media is unwilling to accept it.

Clinton was vilified for inviting campaign contributors to the White House for coffee. Bush has gone virtually uncriticized by the press for inviting his energy industry campaign contributors to the White House in order to write legislation that will redistribute trillions of dollars from consumers to Big Oil and Big Coal (and Big Nuclear, which is a major revenue source for the employer of Russert, Tom Brokaw, Andrea Mitchell, and the rest of the GOP cheerleading squad at NBC).

The amount of outraged media coverage that was focused on Clinton campaign contributors spending fatality-free nights in the Lincoln Bedroom dwarfed the attention that was devoted to Bush campaign contributors who operated the controls of a nuclear submarine during a cruise that resulted in the deaths of nine civilians.

Bush nominees John Ashcroft and Ted Olson lied about matters of substance under oath during their confirmation hearings before Congress. Yet the same mainstream media that deplored perjury so much that it demanded Clinton’s head for lying about sex has developed group laryngitis now that the lies under oath are coming from Republicans.

Even when Bush is caught dead to rights in a lie, the media remains deferential. When he violated his transparently insincere promise to curb carbon emissions, the media chose to present his dissembling as a virtue called “flexibility”.

The General Services Administration has issued a report about the vandalism and theft that the Bush regime claimed had been committed by departing Clinton staffers. The report revealed that the crimes that had been described in excruciating detail by Bush Press Secretary Ari Fleischer never happened. This means that, on their very first day in the White House, Bush and his staff chose to restore honor and integrity to the Oval Office by falsely accusing people of committing felonies. It has been proven that they lied directly to the media for the purpose of manipulating reporters into libeling people who were completely innocent. And, because of the GSA report, the media now knows it. Yet the same reporters who refused to tolerate lying of any kind by Al Gore, even nonexistent lying, remain submissive and obedient for Bush.

Why does the media refuse to hold George W. Bush to the same standard that they apply to Democrats? Why do they refuse to hold him to any standard at all, even the self-serving standard that they will not tolerate him lying to them?

You know why:

Shortly after being appointed by George W. Bush, Federal Communications Chairman Michael Powell announced that the regulation that prohibits ownership of both television stations and newspapers in the same city is going to be changed. “There is something offensive to First Amendment values about that limitation,” he said.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. Now with the cut-and-paste job, but *STILL* no credible link to a source for this supposed
conversation. I'm embarrassed for you at this point.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #27
45. that is the evidence
Did Russert really say that?

All I have is Podvin's uncited word. Why is that good enough for me? Because of the evidence that makes it very, very plausible. We know a) he reported things dishonestly or inaccurately, b) he attacked Gore and coddled Bush, and c) he made lots and lots of money.

You are straining at gnats while swallowing camels. Meanwhile you offer no proof that it isn't true. Just act like a two year old constantly asking 'Why?' 'Why?' 'Why?'
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. very strange indeed
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #50
79. not really
that's his/her gimmick. "Prove it" "Nope, that's not proof"

Meanwhile, here's what he/she considers 'proof' (besides calling an argument 'silly' or the person making the argument 'stupid' or 'childish')
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3446020&mesg_id=3446851
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #45
127. "You are straining at gnats while swallowing camels."
God... what a lovely way to put that.

And how awful that so many do the exact same thing. I wish I knew why...

*sigh*
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #127
130. well it is a Bible verse that seemed apropo
I suspect for one person, that the name apocalypse suggests he/she gets down on the Fundie side. For most I think it is human, perhaps they are moderates themselves. Perhaps they have watched Russert for years and liked and respected him. If Ted Rall or Eric Alterman or Bob Somerby were being trashed here after their death, I probably would go over the line by more than a toke in defending them. People want to believe that they are right, not that they have been duped. As I often quote "Given a choice between changing their mind and proving that there is no need to do so, most people will get busy on the proof."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/37

It's kinda sad though to see the same behaviour in a group you might have thought of as a confederacy of the unduped. How did all these rubes become members of my exclusive club? :argh:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. I posted earlier in this thread about it. I even did a search to see if that comment
appeared in any other independent article. The sites that have it all go back to the Podvin article.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
otherlander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
7. Now I want to change my sigline
to say Pauper with Integrity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
8. “Deep Throat: -The Missing Footage”.
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
10. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
13. He'll always be remembered for that, won't he?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. Obviously, talking heads and politicians are highly overpaid.
And, considering the amount of integrity in either profession, I would make that "very" highly overpaid.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
InkAddict Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
20. My ex-boss said something similar.
"Poor people don't have choices."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
28. MEDIA WHORE # 1 Without A Doubt
So pissed I couldn't read the whole thing

Be back once my bladder refills
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
40. RIP Tim "everything is presumed to be off the record" Russert.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
70. Whoa. Thanks for posting
Are there any Russert worshippers who want to dispute this story?

I'm mentally adding this particular story to the MOUNDS of evidence on Media Matters, TPM and Daily Howler to say this:

Tim Russert was a totally biased partisan dedicated to the goals of the GOP.

Anyone care to disagree?



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
75. The executives at G.E. viewed with hostility the Democratic Party that wanted to burden them
1984 -- the very years in which General Electric, thanks to Reagan's help and friends in Congress, had managed to reduce their Federal Corporate income taxes to ZERO DOLLARS.

Yes, ZERO dollars.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
apocalypsehow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
76. Still waiting for some credible evidence for this OP....
:boring:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
80. Garbage.
How would "David Podvin" know any of this?

Who is he?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #80
88. It's easy to find out who David Podvin is...IF you really want to know.
I hadn't heard his name either (that I recall) until I started reading this thread, so here's what I did:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=David+Podvin&btnG=Google+Search

It brought up 33,000 links in .28 seconds. It's very easy...you should try it sometime.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Thank you
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #88
91. A Google search shows links to other things he's written.
That doesn't answer my question: who is he?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. from what I gather at this link a very shy blogger
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #92
93. I am not willing to trust a shy blogger providing so little info about...
...who he is and who his sources are, as he prints unlikely quotes.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. I agree with you
I don't doubt that the words could have been spoken, but it would be easier to believe if there were some sources or anyone else saying something even remotely similar.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. Common Dreams thinks he's ok
However David Podvin, an investigative journalist who runs an independent Web page, Make Them Accountable, said he had been tipped off that the consortium was covering up the results.

He refused to disclose his source other than to describe him as a former media executive whom he knew "as an accurate conduit of information" and who claimed that the consortium "is deliberately hiding the results of its recount because Gore was the indisputable winner".


http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/1022-03.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #95
111. For that article, David Podvin has another secret source.
Has he ever quoted someone by name, based on a personal interview he did?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #92
96. By Buzzflash Contributing Writer David Podvin
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 06:07 PM by seemslikeadream
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #92
97. Who is silverback?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. Stephen Marshall co-founder and blogger at GNN
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 06:15 PM by maddezmom
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. ok you take a blogger's word about another blogger word?
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 06:13 PM by seemslikeadream
who's words you are questioning?


I'll see if I can email Thom Hartman I've read he knows her
http://www.democrats.com/blog/3483

Carolyn Kay

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #99
101. I just added more to the link
and I'm not questioning anyone's words. The quote is unsourced and even Carolyn says she doesn't know the source but trusts David so she believes him. That's her opinion and she's entitled to it just like anyone else reading it. Some may believe it some might not. :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #101
102. I know that's fine
I believe he is telling the truth, others don't I respect that
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #102
103. you might remember some of Stephen Marshall's work
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #103
105. Thanks
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 06:29 PM by seemslikeadream
:hi:

I't s so enjoyable to have a respectful conversation
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #105
106. I agree
:hi: Sometimes there are no bad guys or good guys, just people stating the truth and their opinions as they see them. Nothing wrong with getting all the info out there. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #101
104. Maybe you would find this interesting it's about David's Partner
http://makethemaccountable.com/index.php/about/

For most of my life I wasn’t active politically, even though I had strong feelings about the issues, especially the Gingrich revolution and the impeachment of a president I helped elect twice, for reasons that should have been none of anyone’s business. When it became apparent in the summer of 2000 that the mainstream media had actually joined the Bush campaign, and may as well have been picking up their paychecks from Bush adviser Karl Rove, I became seriously concerned about what was happening in my country. The aftermath of the election and the Supreme Court’s decision to put Bush in the White House only cemented my resolve to do what I can to save democracy, grandiose as that may sound.

I started an email newsletter, then a website, MakeThemAccountable.com. Since I’m a computer consultant by trade, I didn’t have a problem with the technical side of managing a website.

In 1977 I met the man that I decided to share my life with. He doesn’t like to be identified on the Internet, so when I post his comments, I call him The Voice From The Blue. Our political ideas are very similar, but until recently he didn’t understand the urgency I feel about the importance of fighting the fascist juggernaut that has taken over our country.

There are two things that played the biggest part in why I decided to become involved in politics. One is that I’ve been curious for many years about how the Nazis could have taken over in Germany. I decided that it was because not enough people stood up against them early on, and I hoped that if I ever saw something similar happening in my country, I’d have the courage to fight it. The Republican takeover was, and is, something very similar to the Nazi takeover in Germany.



Also, in December of 1998 I was diagnosed with breast cancer. It’s only after surgery that you find out the extent of the cancer, and what your long-term chances are, so during the month between diagnosis and surgery it kept going through my mind that I always thought I’d have more impact before I check out of this place. After a year of difficult and expensive (!) treatment, the news was good. I have less chance of getting breast cancer again than women in the general population have of getting it the first time.

After about nine months of recuperation following treatment, when I had most of my strength back, the 2000 campaign was going full swing. It scared me to see how the mainstream media were propping up George Bush while faithfully reporting every stupid lie that the Bush campaign made up about Al Gore. So here I am. And here I’ll stay. I’ll use every talent I possess and all my energy to try to bring back tolerance, decency, and generosity to the country I love.

Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com
April, 2003
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #104
108. Did you know she is also a member of DU?
She runs a good website. Read about her cancer a while ago, glad she in remission and back fighting the good fight.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #108
109. !
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 06:55 PM by seemslikeadream
sorry to be so troublesome, at times

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #98
100. Here's a couple of photos of Kay with Clinton
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 06:30 PM by seemslikeadream
she is a Hillary supporter







Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #88
119. I did the same thing. Wiki is not the best, but odd he's not on there. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #80
90. Who is Tim Russert?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bow-tie Donating Member (236 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #80
116. Since I've been
back at DU after a year, I've noticed an usual amount of right-wing comments. Has DU been infiltrated enough for a stranger of a year to notice it? (see above)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #116
124. Right on.....
they aren't very clever, but I guess they are clever enough for some
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #124
128. They're not clever at all.
They only stink up the joint. The only people giving them any credence are those already predisposed to do so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #116
125. all these insinuations about Duers being RW trolls
it's so stupid, it's like y'all are trying to intimidate people into being morons, into believing ridiculous crap just because it sounds good.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
107. WOW you're getting pounced on by a group of newly
registered users. You HIT a NERVE!!:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #107
112. I've been here for years, and I consider that article garbage.
If a writer the public knows nothing about wants to make an extraordinary claim, then he needs extraordinary proof.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #107
122. yup
definitely hit a nerve and I have a good hunch as to why.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
110. Now there's an obituary. Great article
Edited on Sun Jun-15-08 07:36 PM by Hardhead
Tim Russert: total media whore. Which brings to mind one of the first blogs to call him out.



Words can't express how much I miss the Horse. Greatest fucking blog of all time.

Democrats Refuse Russert-"Moderated" Debates
Candidates Just Say No to Disgraced Imus Suck-Up


When "Meet the Press" host Tim Russert offered to host debates in the most competitive Senate races, he figured many candidates would welcome the free air time.

Not quite. Nine Democratic candidates have said thanks but no thanks after their GOP opponents had agreed to debate on NBC. Only two Republicans have taken a pass after their Democratic rivals said yes.

The latest to forgo Sunday morning debate is Texas Democrat Ron Kirk, the former Dallas mayor, who trails state Attorney General John Cornyn. The Kirk campaign did not return several calls.

In New Jersey, former Democratic senator Frank Lautenberg also vetoed the invitation. The Democrat he replaced, Robert G. Torricelli, had agreed to a debate, as had GOP candidate Doug Forrester.

Full Story

Wow! Why, we wonder, would Democrats decline invitations to participate in debates hosted by Tim Russert? Do they suspect he might not be fair to Democrats? Might he display the same shameless right-wing bias as a debate moderator that he exhibits everywhere else?

Help us out, Timmy! Say something to show us we're mistaken and you harbor no ill will against Democrats...


Russert called the rejection of 40 minutes of national exposure "really extraordinary. We're trying to do the right thing, and they don't want to debate on the issues. They'd prefer, apparently, to hide behind 30-second ads."

http://web.archive.org/web/20030202044725/http://mediawhoresonline.com/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #110
114. I still miss The Horse very much too, Hardhead.
I was thinking earlier today of asking if Horse archives are available online, ahd here some are! Are there anymore available?

If the whole archive were available, there'd be lots of good Russert info in there.

Salon's TableTalk has had an ongoing "Beat the Press: Media Atrocities" thread for years, which included plenty of examples of Russert's mediawhoredom. I'm not sure how many of the early versions of the thread are still available in the Attic there, and I don't think they're very easily searchable. Might be someone over there who threadsucked 'em, though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #110
129. Wow. Great Find
thanks
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sammythecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-15-08 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
113. Thanks very much for posting this.
I'm getting tired of defending my reasons for failing to worship the fallen hero.

Everyone who wonders why some of us disagree he should be canonized should read this first. Excellent summation. I have no doubt he might have been a nice guy to be around, but when lives were at stake he became a self-serving coward. Just like most of the big names in the media. I'm sorry he's dead, but I'm glad he's gone. He compromised his integrity. A newsman without consistent integrity is pretty worthless. Except, of course, to those who benefited by him taking a dive.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
B.S. Lewis Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
117. Interesting article, thanks. There are definitely reasons to dislike TR
Edited on Mon Jun-16-08 02:12 AM by B.S. Lewis
but I can't help thinking that, if it is wrong to canonize him simply because he was a big journalist, that it is dumb to vilify him excessively for the very same reason. Lots of politically unreliable who you and I never heard of died this past weekend you know. :)

I just kinda wish we could stop talking about him. I'm brand new to this board; is the focus of DU always this narrow and topical? I hope not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 04:54 AM
Response to Reply #117
120. Yes, we are constantly infighting and sniping at each other.
But I hear the Pets forum is quite nice. And usually fairly quiet. Do you own a cat?

Welcome to DU. If microscopic examinations of incredibly narrow topics is not your thing, I suggest you check in on a weekly basis. It's kinda like a soap opera, you see it after two years and the same people are bitching at each other about the same things.

The Weather forum rarely breaks out into bitch slapping.... you might try them out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
B.S. Lewis Donating Member (96 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #120
131. Haha, ok thanks
I guess I'll just stick around for the occasional "Population Bomb" type thread.

Also, I guess I could use this place to learn about the politics of guys like TR without having to actually watch that crap myself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
118. .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 05:35 AM
Response to Original message
123. I Believe It.... because Russert Had Shit for Intehrity
Edited on Mon Jun-16-08 05:36 AM by fascisthunter
Must piss off conservatives who are working ever so hard to mold public's perception of current and past events.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
vanboggie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
126. Finally some sanity
That sounds like the Tim Russert I refused to watch. Thank you for bringing reality back to DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
132. These people who take millions from GE and other
war mongers to sit on camera and claim to deliver 'news' are all without what average people would call integrity. They take money to lie, tell half truths, ignore elephants in rooms, and feigh objectivity while selling ad time for Napalm makers and such. Dig who it is that pays them, what they pay them to say, what they pay them to not say, look at the huge piles of millions of dollars they accept for doing as they are told. Integrity? Please! They are pre sold and prescreened.
I mean, I might tell the truth that would save thousands of lives and our nations reputation, but then I could not afford Trump Tower....these are not people to make into heros.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
asteroid2003QQ47 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-16-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #132
133. Tim Russert; quintessential front man for General Electric...
a quintessential Amurican company dedicated to the principles
of free market capitalism.
-------------------------

"In brief, we have hard evidence of unquestioned authenticity (see p, 56) to show that German General Electric contributed substantial sums to Hitler's political fund. There were four American directors of A.E.G. (Baldwin, Swope, Minor, and Clark), which was 80 percent owned by International General Electric. Further, I.G.E. and the four American directors were the largest single interest and consequently had the greatest single influence in A.E.G. actions and policies. Even further, almost all other directors of A.E.G. were connected with firms (I. G. Farben, Accumulatoren Fabrik, etc.) which contributed directly " as firms " to Hitler's political fund. However, only the German directors of A.E.G were placed on trial in Nuremburg in 1945.


Technical Cooperation with Krupp Quite apart from financial assistance to Hitler, General Electric extended its assistance to cartel schemes with other Hitler backers for their mutual benefit and the benefit of the Nazi state. Cemented tungsten carbide is one example of this G.E.-Nazi cooperation. Prior to November 1928, American industries had several sources for both tungsten carbide and tools and dies containing this hard-metal composition. Among these sources were the Krupp Company of Essen, Germany, and two American firms to which Krupp was then shipping and selling, the Union Wire Die Corporation and Thomas Prosser & Son. In 1928 Krupp obligated itself to grant licenses under United States patents which it owned to the Firth-Sterling Steel Company and to the Ludlum Steel Company. Before 1928, this tungsten carbide for use in tools and dies sold in the United states for about $50 a pound.

The United States patents which Krupp claimed to own were assigned from Osram Kommanditgesellschaft, and had been previously assigned by the Osram Company of Germany to General Electric. However, General Electric had also developed its own patents, principally the Hoyt and Gilson patents, covering competing processes for cemented tungsten carbide. General Electric believed that it could utilize these patents independently without infringing on or competing with Krupp patents. But instead of using the G.E. patents independently in competition with Krupp, or testing out its rights under the patent laws, General Electric worked out a cartel agreement with Krupp to pool the patents of both parties and to give General Electric a monopoly control of tungsten carbide in the United States.

The first step in this cartel arrangement was taken by Carboloy Company, Inc., a General Electric subsidiary, incorporated for the purpose of exploiting tungsten carbide. The 1920s price of around $50 a pound was raised by Carboloy to $458 a pound. Obviously, no firm could sell any great amounts of tungsten carbide in this price range, but the price would maximize profits for G.E. In 1934 General Electric and Carboloy were also able to obtain, by purchase, the license granted by Krupp to the Ludlum Steel Company, thereby eliminating one competitor. In 1936, Krupp was induced to refrain from further imports into the United States. Part of the price paid for the elimination from the American market of tungsten carbide manufactured abroad was a reciprocal undertaking that General Electric and Carboloy would not export from the U.S. Thus these American companies tied their own hands by contract, or permitted Krupp to tie their hands, and denied foreign markets to American industry. Carboloy Company then acquired the business of Thomas Prosser & Son, and in 1937, for nearly $1 million, Carboloy acquired the competing business of the Union Wire Die Corporation. By refusing to sell, Krupp cooperated with General Electric and Carboloy to persuade Union Wire Die Corporation to sell out.

Licenses to manufacture tungsten carbide were then refused. A request for license by the Crucible Steel Company was refused in 1936. A request by the Chrysler Corporation for a license was refused in 1938. A license by the Triplett Electrical Instrument Company was refused on April 25, 1940. A license was also refused to the General Cable Company. The Ford Motor Company for several years expressed strong opposition to the high-price policy followed by the Carboloy Company, and at one point made a request for the right to manufacture for its own use. This was refused. As a result of these tactics, General Electric and its subsidiary Carboloy emerged in 1936 or 1937 with virtually a complete monopoly of tungsten carbide in the United States.

In brief, General Electric " with the cooperation of another Hitler supporter, Krupp " jointly obtained for G,E. a monopoly in the U.S. for tungsten carbide. So when World War II began, General Electric had a monopoly at an established price of $450 a pound " almost ten times more than the 1928 price "

http://www.nwowatcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=9120.0;prev_next=prev

Russert's death means I have one less enemy and no amount of milksop quisling hand-wringing will cause me to mourn the loss.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC