CNN is reporting that homeowners in Iowa are telling reporters...

[Joanne98]

that they don't have flood insurance because they were told they didn't need it. Gee! I wonder who would be that evil? The banks or the mortgage companies?

:nuke:

[Kittycat]

1. Oddly - the Insurance Companies

I heard a resident last week in WI discuss that no one on their block had it, they were told they didn't need it by their own insurance company. Added that they were "not at risk" - now they've lost it all.

[Joanne98]

3. Very interesting.

[elocs]

18. In La Crosse, WI I live 1 block from the Black River and I am not in the flood plain.

If you are not in the flood plain you might well be told that you don't need flood insurance. But if I was really concerned that there might be a legitimate risk of being flooded I would not simply take the word of a realtor or insurance agent. I would find out definitively exactly what the facts were and then make my decision. It's a cop-out to simply claim that "somebody" told me I didn't need flood insurance.

[hedgehog]

47. My brother has a doctorate in Environmental Engineering and has spent

his entire career studying how rainfall ends up in our rivers. It's a complicated problem. I understand people listening to experts.

[elocs]

53. Yes it is complicated, with not only runoff causing flooding, but runoff from farms

that closes the area beaches. I live in La Crosse, WI (on the Mississippi, almost due east of Rochester, MN) and it has a southside and a northside separated by a large marsh. Once upon a time there were those who wanted to fill in and develop the "swamp". Very recently it was dry, but now it is very full of water. Water which would have undoubtedly flooded the northside (where I live) if there was not that natural reservoir. It's also great having a wildlife refuge in the center of town.

[hedgehog]

55. The University of Buffalo built its North Campus in a wetlands

back in the early 70's over the objections of its own Geography and Engineering Faculty. It'd be impossible to build on that site today; it was a stopover point for migratory birds. I saw a flock of wild swans stop by in the spring of 1976. The spring after construction started on that campus, Ellicott Creek flooded homes that had been high and dry for years.

[elocs]

59. In La Crosse we are on the Mississippi flyway so we get lots of migratory birds here.

Even pelicans. Right now you can see lots of herons out in the marsh. In late winter and early spring I can walk the block down to the Black River and see bald eagles as common as sparrows.

Originally I am from western NY and was born in Westfield. It looks a lot like that around here--rolling hills, dairy farms, but apple orchards instead of grapes. Another irony is that Interstate 90 goes right by La Crosse.

The DNR is very tough here and will not allow filling in of the marsh. Some years back the university wanted to fill in some of the marsh to build a ballfield and the DNR would only allow it if a maybe 4 block long road across the marsh was removed to compensate for the area lost. It has been a savior to keep the city from flooding over the years, plus it is also a natural filter for the water there.

[emmadoggy]

66. Hey, "neighbor"!

Hubby, kids, and I were just in LaX today (we're from Waukon, IA). And you know, we saw a pelican along the Mississippi on the drive up. Only the second time we have seen one. So weird. Also saw LOTS of Canada geese and some egrets and a bald eagle. We love the drive to LaX just for the scenery and wildlife spottings (the kids love to see the trains!).

I, too, am so glad that they hold tight to that marsh - for the reasons you mention and also just because it enhances the (considerable) natural beauty of the city.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

61. UB is the fault of the city of Buffalo..

I swear no city was run as badly in the 60's and 70's as Buffalo NY...

They should have *given* the university all the land in layette park (along the Niagara), imagine how that could have saved downtown..

[The Doctor.]

70. Not to mention the sinking of all the homes in Amherst.

I'm well-acquainted with the area.

[Clark2008]

74. Thank you.

My husband was in insurance forever and a day and we don't have flood insurance because we don't live in a flood zone.

There's nothing evil nor nefarious in an insurance agent not telling one to get flood insurance. If your risk is extremely low and, under all normal circumstances, you wouldn't need it, then your insurance agent is simply trying to save you money on your monthly premium.

However, as we've all been witnessing for the past two months, Mother Nature may not agree with that scenario.

[miles 2 go]

75. I thought you could only get flood insurance through the govt and only if you are in a flood zone?

[tbyg52]

79. Yup. When they say "don't need"

they mean "not in the 100-year flood plain." We aren't, and we have it anyway. I think advising people against it, considering how cheap it is if you're not in the flood plain, is stupid and irresponsible.

[Jack Rabbit]

38. Wow. The insurance would have done better to follow their usual MO

Sell insurace, collect big, fat premiums and deny claims.

[bunnies]

63. I call bullshit.

An insurance company will NEVER dissuade anyone from buying a policy. I worked in insurance for years. Since its more money in their pocket, they're all too happy to sell it.

[babylonsister]

2. Or the insurance companies? nt

[Joanne98]

8. Telling that to people who lived on the flood plain?

Now that's EVIL!

[babylonsister]

17. I hate to say it, but if this was a known flood plain,

the residents shouldn't have listened to anyone. I know, easy for me to say, but since Katrina, I'm very skeptical of what anyone in 'authority' would say.

[Echo In Light]

39. Re 100/500 yr floods, people tend to dismiss the chances

[Raven]

4. The were probably not on the FEMA Floodplain Maps. Those maps

are woefully out of date, many not having been updates since the early 80"s. When you buy a house one thing the bank's attorney does is check the FEMA maps. If you're not in a 100 year flood zone, you don't need the insurance. I wonder who will be blamed for this...FEMA for not keeping current or the homeowners who did what our wonderful government told them to do?

[Wiley50]

35. Good to have a woman of substance around

who knows the truth of these things and let us all know.

So many of us have never dealt with property matters before.

As workers we were kept from owning and many are still on their first house

or, like me, slipped up on that issue or another one (they are many),

have already lost it and may never own again.

I wish I had known.

[hedgehog]

48. I think it's more a result of living in cities and not understanding that

that bucolic little creek can become a raging river under the right conditions.

[Cal Carpenter]

54. I'm on the FEMA floodplain map

there's a tiny creek runs beneath my house - it's been diverted and is literally in a pipe...I am required to pay flood insurance to have a mortgage - it costs twice my homeowner's insurance and covers less (basically just my foundation and appliances - none of my stuff). There's only about 20 houses along here required to have it, this is in a dense neighborhood. No one else in town has to have it.

I think it's ridiculous. This town doesn't flood. There are clearly people who need it more than me. You're right - they need to update those damn maps.

[rateyes]

5. I doubt that either would tell someone not to purchase the insurance...

especially if they are the lienholders on the property. Flood insurance is sold through companies by the Federal Government. Since when would insurance companies fail to write a policy they thought was unnecessary? That's just more premium in their pockets with very little risk. If anyone told them they didn't need the insurance, when there was a high risk of flood, it would be the ones who would have to pay out the claims.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. But they have what they call 500 year floods

If you live there, you aren't in a flood plain.

It's a major racket. You can't even buy flood insurance here (I am in Kansas) if you aren't in a flood plain.

[rateyes]

71. All the more reason that it's likely the insurance companies

and not the lenders.

[lame54]

6. I think Karl Rove went door to door

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. It has to do with whether or not you live in a flood plain

If you don't live in a flood plain, you can't even buy flood insurance. And if you do live in a flood plain, you have to buy flood insurance.

And sometimes, it floods where it isn't a flood plain.

[pt22]

22. I think you are mistaken. You can buy flood insurance anywhere, just not the federally subsidized

kind. Sure there are "500 year" floods but there are places where 10,000 years would be a normal interval. :-)

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. Nope

We can't buy it. We tried because our basement floods every time it rains and we have sump pumps working overtime, especially this time of year. But we couldn't buy flood insurance since we don't live in a flood plain.

[babylonsister]

41. We can buy flood insurance but don't live in a flood plain,

so we haven't. I hope I never regret that, but we don't live near any big bodies of water either.

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. Do you have floods down there?

We have lots of them here. So they don't sell flood insurance to anyone who doesn't live in a flood plain. We have tried a couple times to buy it.

[babylonsister]

45. In Houston, yes. Where I live, no, not since they built the

wide, deep flood control ditches throughout this neighborhood.
And OT, but I made Tomas a card this weekend and can't read my own handwriting. Is
the address 4401 Wornall or Wornale? I'm going with the first, but am not sure. Any
word on him?

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. St Luke's Hospital - 4401 Wornall Road - KC, MO 64111

David goes to see him almost every day. He is recovering but slowly. I guess I should send out an email.

[babylonsister]

57. Thanks, proud. I'm glad he's recovering, even if slowly. Card

goes out in the a.m.

[NNN0LHI]

58. Don't have to purchase flood insurance if there is no mortgage on the property

Only way someone is forced to purchase flood insurance is if the lender demands it.

Don

[snappyturtle]

9. Well, to play the devil's advocate, would you buy flood insurance

if you were in a 500 year flood plain? If the banks issued the mortgages you'd think they would have required flood insurance anywhere they thought the threat was remotely possible. I heard this 500 number on teevee....so...take it for what it is worth.

[Raven]

13. You are right on. Flood insurance is very expensive. If our own

government says we don't need it, why buy it?

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. You can't even buy it if you aren't in a flood plain

[hedgehog]

50. I suspect that your're caught by Catch-22 - the government

won't write you a policy because in theory you don't need it, but the private companies won't write you a policy because they figure the odds are that you will be making a claim!

[bunnies]

64. Not true.

Every insurance company I worked for would sell it to anyone interested.

[BlooInBloo]

10. Do floods happen there often? Insurance is a bet, after all.

[stray cat]

25. Many of the areas flooding now have never been flooded

Also, flood insurance is not always available even in areas that are not prone to flooding. Kind of like earthquake insurance - how many homeowners have that who don't live along fault lines.

[BlooInBloo]

26. Ok - so the 10000-sided die came up 378, so you should have been told to buy 378-insurance....

Just standard stupidity.

[stray cat]

32. Do you have earthquake insurance? You take your chances but its tough

losing 100,000 dollars or more and maybe ending up that much in debt because without a house because the mortgage wasn't paid.

[BlooInBloo]

40. It's true: maximizing one's expectation is no proof against a single die-roll.

[hedgehog]

52. Me! Me! I'm enough of a science geek that I insisted on buying earthquake insurance

in upstate New York. The odds of an earthquake here are low, but it is possible for us to have a good sized jolt. I only pay about $50 a year. The odds are that I'll never make a claim, but it's worth it to me to lose that $50 bet each year.

[msongs]

12. people who live in flood plains need flood insurance. isnt that obvious? nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Remember the floods of 1993

along the Missouri River across Missouri? Most of those were 500 year floods and most of those homeowners didn't have flood insurance.

[kevinmc]

14. I feel sorry for all those people .....A lot of people have lost everything.

that state is like a lake now .... by what I can see of it on the news it looks that way.

[Debi]

16. Those of us outside of the 100 yr and 500 yr flood plain

don't qualify for flood insurance.

[blue sky at night]

19. IMHO.....

any time this happens, everyone should be helped regardless of insurance. With the money we waste on the Military and giving BIG OIL tax breaks we could cover a million floods. We need a government and businesses that serve the people, not themselves.

[Carnea]

21. Needing flood insurance to get a mortgage and needing flood insurance are two very diffent things.

As for the people saying they weren't allowed to buy flood insurance this sounds very dubious. That their optional flood insurance would cost and arm and a leg on the other hand..


As for those people crowing about flood plains... well a 500 year flood doesn't just effect flood plains. I wonder how many co-ops in Manhattan or houses in St Louis have Earthquake insurance... cause that is more likely than a 500 year flood.

I live in Tampa Florida. They haven't gotten hit by a real hurricane since I believe 1923. Yet every year we have to cough up cash for hurricane insurance. In the last five years our hurricane insurance has tripled even though hurricanes stubbornly avoid us sometimes turning 90 degrees at 2 am (I'm looking your way Charlie)

Now if this was flood insurance Tampa residence could correctly say that they don't live in a hurricane area go pick on Rhode Island and CT where the hurricanes go. And statistically they would be correct. But common sense (and greed) rules private insurance companies and we pay through the nose even though there is no empirical evidence we are in a hurricane area. The government runs flood insurance this way If they ran hurricane insurance the same way you would have to buy if you lived in Rhode Island but not Tampa cause we don't get hurricanes cept every hundred years or so.

[DogPoundPup]

23. Do you suppose these folks living in these older homes imagined they lived in a flood plain?

[Joanne98]

24. They said they were told they didn't need it.

[ellenfl]

27. as an ex-lender and current real estate paralegal , let me

clear this up. if you are not in a flood plain as designated by the fema maps (drawn up long before 'heck-of-a-job brownie') or, if you are in a flood plain but do not have a mortgage, you are not required to have flood insurance. if you ARE in a flood plain, your lender will require that you carry it. if you are not in a flood plain but want to carry flood insurance, you may do so. flood insurance is very cheap, comparatively speaking, and is a pretty good investment in the sanctity of your property.

i would guess that the flood plain maps may be revised considering the development that is making flooding more probable i some areas.

ellen fl

[SoCalDem]

30. Flood plain maps were probably drawn up long before all the newer levees

upriver.. and any time a place upriver from you changed THEIR flood plans, yours need modifying.. There are several places about to be flooded because of levees upriver from them...

[Strelnikov_]

28. Event was/is most likely a 1/1000 (1000 Yr.)+ event

The 1/100 (100 yr.) event is the standard for lenders requiring flood insurance.

Few more years of data, this may be a 1/100 event (climate change induced discontinuity).

++++++++

Cedar Rapids Gage



Peak 169 kcfs


Conesville Gage



Peak 192kcfs


I-80 Over Cedar River, ~ 2/3 distance from Cedar Rapids to Conesville

Q500 ~ 105 kcfs

Est. @ I-80 this event, Say 184 kcfs ~ 175% of 1/500 annual exceedence (500 yr.) event.


1/1000 (1000 yr.)? 1/2000 (2000 yr.)?

[hoosier_lefty]

29. maybe the government.

I have an FHA loan when they did a flood plain survey
before we built our house. The said no on flood insurance.
After last January's flood FEMA said I had insurance so I couldn't get aid.
*note. I don't have flood insurance (my insurance company laughed at me)

From what I understand all flood insurance is underwritten by the
feds ( my agent told me that)


fuck FEMA ! they hate white people too !

[treestar]

31. They must not have had loans out on their houses

Or the mortgage company would insist they have the insurance.

[Nickster]

44. Not true. They were not in a recognized flood plain, so they wouldn't have mandated flood insurance.

[treestar]

80. But if I know mortgage companies

If they were anywhere near a river or water of any kind - they'd want to protect their investment. There's nothing they don't require if there is any chance of it.

[Tashca]

33. You don't have to be in a flood plain to be flooded

I am certainly not in a flood plain....not even close.
I'm in the Cedar Rapids area....everything is backed up. The storm sewers couldn't handle the Thursday deluge.....5 inches in a short time. My basement filled up.
We immediately called the insurance agent...told him we thought it was the sump pump. No coverage....
We determined that the sump pump was working and it had simply run in through our drains and filled the basement. We call again....no coverage.
But...for $60.00 a year you could be covered. Maybe we are just stupid for not asking this up front. I would think any agent worth his salt would have told use this when we got the coverage. Needless to say, as soon as we get this cleaned up we are shopping for an insurance agent with integrity.

I want to make this clear. We are not in a flood plain. Not in a lifetime...not close.
Sometimes events happen. Check your insurance and make sure you are covered in the areas you need to be covered in. I could never imagine being flooded where we sit......of course I could never imagine having a situation so much worse than 93.

We will be out about 5K...we can handle that...in fact I feel very lucky compared to so many. Yesterday we even had a person helping us that had lost everything in Palo....he is in shock...I don't know what the hell to do for him..................

[Strelnikov_]

36. What did the $60 option cover?

Sewer backup? Basement flooding in general?

[Tashca]

37. Both

Sump pump malfunction.....storm sewer back-up. Not sure of anything else at this time.

Mostly I posted what I did so others could be helped in the future....ask the questions we did not.

[27inCali]

34. places that have never flooded before are flooding/

that has an ominous right to it.

global warming anyone?

[MiniMe]

46. This isn't anything like Katrina of course, but insurance didn't do the NO'ers

any good at all. The hurrican insurance said that the damage was caused by the flooding and the flood insurance folks said that the damage was caused by the hurricane, and those people who had paid for both insurances ended up with nada. Again, not comparing the 2, totally different circumstances.

[jakem]

49. "NEED IT" means required for the mortgage, typically in the 100yr plain.

OUr hous eis just outside the 100yr plain. We dont NEED it, but we have it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. It's not that... most folks affected are OUTSIDE the usual flood plain

this is already a five hundred year flood... and it could reach 1000 year stage if it keeps raining

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

60. Why in the hell would a mortgage company not want their property insured?

I do seriously wonder who? maybe real estate agents..

[stillcool]

62. We had one of those 100 year floods...

in Mass a couple of years ago, and from what I gathered the cost is prohibitive, and the coverage is iffy. It covers certain types of flooding, but there are exceptions, or fine print. So many people who had flood insurance and thought that they were covered, weren't. I think I read where insurance companies were no longer carrying flood insurance. I also remember something about if you live in a flood plain area you can only get government backed insurance.

[bunnies]

65. No. The banks and the mortgage company dont want to LOSE money.

Its the responsibility of the homeowner to insure the property. And insurance agencies are all too happy to sell it. Having worked in insurance for many years I can tell you that the blame falls on the homeowners. Insure your property people. Its that simple.

[earth mom]

68. Bullshit-people in the Katrina area bought insurance & were DENIED.

Insurance companies are the BIGGEST rip off artists-second only to * & Co! :grr:

[bunnies]

77. I never said their claims wouldnt be denied.

What I said was that the insurance companies would sell it.

[hedgehog]

83. They had fire insurance. They had wind insurance. But did they have flood insurance?

My policy defines flood as including wind driven surges in water level. As near as I can make out, there may have been a lot of agents telling people they had hurricane insurance when in fact there is no such thing. The written policies are what governs unless it can be shown that the insurance companies knew that their agents were lying.

[AngryOldDem]

67. If they weren't in the flood plain, they didn't need it.

And I'm not sure, but I don't think 500-year events are included in the criteria to get it. They were victimized by a true freak of nature here.

[CoffeeCat]

69. We tried to buy flood insurance 10 days ago...

I live in Ankeny, Iowa--a suburb of Des Moines. When the rain began pouring and
the river levels were rising, my husband and I made an appointment with our insurance
agent. One of the things we discussed was flood insurance. We don't live in a flood
plain. In fact, the chance of us ever being flooded is very remote.

As we discussed it, our agent said, "I can't sell you flood insurance right now, because
of the flooding problems that may happen in our area. Once this mess (the rising water levels)
are under control and everything is back to normal, we can discuss it."

Our insurance agent said that many people buy flood insurance when things start looking bad, then
they drop it a few months after the threat is over.

Makes sense to me! ...but not to the insurance companies!

So, State Farm wouldn't even sell us flood insurance. I understand the whole principle. You
can't run out and buy insurance on your house, when it's on fire. However, I thought with
a flooding situation, it was a bit unfair that we couldn't purchase it.

[MJJP21]

72. Insurance

I know a little bit about flood insurance since my wife sells it. No you can't go out and buy insurance when things look bad. Even if that agent sold you the insurance it wouldn't go into effect for at least 30 days.
Here is what many people don't understand even in our area.
============
HOME OWNERS INSURANCE DOES NOT COVER FLOODING
=================

As to cost the rates depend on what category of danger you are located in. Dropping insurance is virtually impossible since you have to pay for the year up front. You can choose not to renew the following year if you want but then face the same risks.
It's not the insurance companies that bear the burden of loss either as flood insurance is administered through the federal government. Only the federal govt can determine if an area qualifies for flood insurance. If you have no history of flooding then they can't determine rates. We were flooded in 72 NE PA with Agnes and no flood insurance was available. It is now and areas are rated at A B and C based on risk.
Everyone needs to understand the mindset of the insurance company and how they operate. When you buy a policy for whatever (car, home, life, health etc) YOU are betting that you will need to make a claim. You are betting that you will die prematurely, you car will get wrecked, you health will take a turn for the worse etc. The insurance company on the other hand with all the statistics they have calculated the odds of how likely you will be right and they will be wrong. Think of it like gambling and how bookies work then you will understand.
As to your comment"So, State Farm wouldn't even sell us flood insurance" the reality is that no one can be turned down who wants to buy flood insurance from any agent if flood insurance if offered. The agent may not understand what flood insurance is and how it is administered since they don't sell it.

[MiniMe]

73. If they allowed it at the time you wanted to buy it, it would be outrageously expensive

You can buy life insurance when you are relatively healthy, but you can't buy it if you have cancer. Insurance works because people pay their premiums over a long period of time and don't need it, while others do.

I don't like insurance companies at all, especially the obscene profits they make off of people. But if you didn't try to purchase the insurance until the flood was predicted, I can understand them not wanting them to sell it to you.

It would be like not carrying hurricane and flood insurance and living on the gulf coast, and waiting until Katrina had a bead on where you were to try to buy it. Of course, it didn't work out well for the people in NO even with those insurances and that is criminal, but an insurance company would have been crazy to sell it at that point knowing they would have to pay out almost immideately.

[MJJP21]

78. Not really

For me the cost of insurance is only a few hundred(maybe $300.00) dollars a year which covers replacement cost(not resale value) which in my case I would really make out like a bandit if it floods. In fact I pray for flooding because I could not get anywhere near the value of my home being sold as compared to replacement cost in a flood.
A situation a few miles down the road on the Susqueanna River there are homes right next to the river that get flooded regularly about every two years. The cost to them is upwards of one or two thousand dollars per year. However they make out like a bandit as well since they get to redo their homes every two years or so. So every two years they may get thousands above and beyond what they paid in for insurance premiums to redo their homes . This amount is based on prevailing replacement costs done by a pro. Many of the homeowners do their own work and pocket the rest.The only way they are going to leave the flood plane is if the govt forces them out.

[MiniMe]

82. Yes, but if you went to get it a week before a flood was expected...

It would be an entirely different story. You explained it much better than I did in your other post when you said it wouldn't matter because it wouldn't have been effective because there is a 30 day waiting period. :hi:

[BigDaddy44]

76. That makes sense to you?

Buying flood insurance every time it starts raining, and then cancelling it every time it stops? Clearly you don't know a whole lot about how insurance works.

[leftyladyfrommo]

81. That's controlled by the flood insurance people

flood insurance is required in flood zones. The maps are set up by FEMA. Trouble is that no one thought a flood like this would or could happen.

But other people are required to have flood insurance where the liklihood of a flood is nil.

It's expensive and really increases a mortgage payment.

[shanti]

84. wow

my ins. company has told me the same thing, even tho 1/2 of sacramento IS in a flood zone, apparently i'm not. of course, there was an opt out clause.