Any and all Jim Carrey fans and/or detractors might want to check this out...(re: autism)

[WilliamPitt]

I had no idea his personal life involved such challenging responsibilities. Don't know why I would have, frankly, as I'm not much of a People/Us reader...but caring for a child with serious Autism is one hell of a challenge, yet he speaks of it in such glowing terms.

I've been close for years with a husband and wife whose oldest son had pretty damned severe Autism, and he was also six-foot-two and 250 lbs to boot...a force of nature when uncontained and/or upset, who was a legitimate danger to himself and others because of his size and strength. They took care of their son, and each other, and it was harder than Hell, and they managed to find ways to thrive while counting blessings. The son thrived, too, in every way he could.

Sounds like Carrey's finding ways to do the same for Ms. McCarthy's boy. He and she have, quite abruptly, earned a very high high place on my personal hold-in-high-esteem list...and hey, don't forget the essay itself, either. This below is just about the best Fathers Day-related article I've come across all weekend. Enjoy:

Jim Carrey: "Autism Made Me a Man"
By Kim Stagliano
The Huffington Post

Sun Jun 15

On June 4th, I (and about 8000 close autism friends) attended Jenny McCarthy and Jim Carrey's "Green Our Vaccines" rally in Washington, DC. After marching a mile and a half in the nuclear, DC sun, we arrived on the lawn in front of the Capitol building for two hours of inspirational speeches by doctors, parents, advocates (like Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.) Jenny and her devoted beau, Jim Carrey.

Jim's speech included one line that has resonated with me. No, not "We are here! We are here!", although there were plenty of Horton Hears a Who-related chants at the rally. As he talked about the many rings of fire Jenny went through to help her son Evan, who was diagnosed with both autism and a seizure disorder, he said (I'm paraphrasing, I was too star struck to remember the exact words), "Autism made me a man." He made it clear that loving Jenny and Evan had changed him for the better. Wow. Break out the hankies people. He stopped me cold on a very hot day.

Autism snaps the backbone of many families. Or it turns a spine to steel, able to bend but never to break. On this Father's Day, I'd like to salute all of the fathers of kids with autism. Whether your child is a toddler, or approaching AARP membership, you deserve a salute. So here I go:

This post is for the dads who've stuck by their kids. To the single dads, who work overtime for their children. To the grandfathers who donate their time and money and knowledge and love to help their grandchildren. (Like my own wonderful Dad.) To the men who've learned now to make killer GFCF smoothies and who are willing to wake up at 1:00am to administer MB12 shots when Mom can't bear to do it. To the men who hold onto their child during a meltdown -- while Mom grabs the activated charcoal.

To the men who miss T-ball and soccer practices, instead going to speech therapy and social skills groups. To the men who can read an IEP as well as the baseball stats. To the men who will never give up believing that one day, their sons and daughters will greet them with words and a smile. To the men who spend more time laminating PECS than working on their pecs. To the men who find a new job, in a faraway state, to ensure better services for their children. To the men who are still saving for their child's college tuition, even while they scrimp and save to pay for ABA therapy and OT equipment in the basement.

More (w/ a bang-up ending worth reading twice):

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20080616/cm_huffpost/107100;_ylt=AijCj_JYUu2qKPy0LhskqYX9wxIF

Go, daddy-o.

:toast:

[papapi]

1. Thanks for this. Already knew it. He's a lovable old grinch, ain't he?

[berni_mccoy]

2. Thank you Will.

[nxylas]

3. Wow, that's a challenge all right

I had to look after a 14-year-old autistic boy once for a friend of a friend, and whilst he was a good kid, he was very high-maintenance. Just that couple of hours wore me out, I couldn't imagine having to do it full time. I have nothing but admiration for someone who could rise to the chllenge so cheerfully (that applies to both the Carreys and your friends).

[tavalon]

40. It's funny

I get that from others when they watch my son but I guess it's just something one gets used to. He's an athletic 13 y/o with the emotional maturity of a hyperactive toddler. As long as you keep in site at all times, he won't get into too much mischief. I'm really glad we all made it through his water and electricity phase. Why he would decide to be fascinated with both at the same time is beyond me? I gained at least 100 of the silver hairs on my head from that stage. No one even got shocked when we all should have been electrocuted.

[Maine-i-acs]

4. Jenny said that Jim was very good at 'breaking through' to her son

And he could communicate well with her autistic boy. This is not an easy task.

Happy Father's Day to Jim Carrey and all the other men who occupy a "dad" position in the family despite lack of direct DNA linearity ... there are many men like Jim that make a difference in kids' lives.

[mzmolly]

5. I am so touched by this article.

Thank you for sharing this Will.

[Robyn66]

6. Happy Daddy's Day Jim Carey

I am glad that Jim Carey has become a positive force in Jenny McCarthy’s son’s life. He is to be commended for doing what is difficult for a lot of fathers to do when they have a child with Autism.

That being said, I am especially glad that Jim Carey is there for that little boy, especially considering the books his mother promotes are in my opinion damaging to families of children with autistic children. Referring to Autistic kids as “broken” and claiming to being able to “cure” them with diet is destructive on a few levels.

First of all, there isn’t any independent scientific data to support her claims. Second, parents who are faced with a diagnosis of autism in their children will of course go through denial and grief and a lot pain that comes from finding out that your child isn’t “typical”. I speak from experience because initially when my child was diagnosed with Autism I felt like my world ended. But once we accepted what we were faced with (after all it wasn’t cancer) we put all of our energies into getting our daughter all of the Occupational Therapists and Aids and help she needed. We needed all of our energies to embark on the inevitable battles with the school district for her rights as well.

People who have autism have it to varying degrees-thus the whole “spectrum” aspect, and some people are very limited in their ability to communicate. I am very lucky that my daughter has Aspergers Syndrome, which is a less severe form of Autism. I can only speak to our experience but never did we think of our child as “broken” nor did we want to waste time on looking for a “cure.” The key to an Autistic child living a happy and successful life is early intervention and getting as much help with sensory and social integration as possible.

To indulge yourself in denial by looking for a cure in a diet is selfish and un-accepting. There is nothing wrong with trying methods to see if they help your child as you move along. But to put appropriate action on hold while you explore a “cure” because you want the autism to go away is very unfair to the child.

I know some people think that Jenny McCarthy is wonderful, but I am not one of them. I think that your responsibility as a parent is to do everything in your power to make sure that child has as strong a change at a self sufficient and happy life as possible. What kind of pressure will a child feel if they know their parents feel they are “broken” and if the “diet” doesn’t “cure” them?

So after my rant, I do think it is great that Jim Carrey can accept this child as he is and be supportive. A child with autism is a gift. If you can learn to see the world through their eyes, it can be a marvelous thing!

[grantcart]

8. excellent comment on a subject that must be very difficult for you to be objective on.

You sound like a great mother

[Robyn66]

11. Thank you

It is very difficult to be objective, especially when the last thing I want to do is disparage anyone for what they beleive in. Parents of autistic kids have an incredibly challenging road to walk (like any parent of a disabled child). My only hope is that people put the engergy they are using to find a "cure". Into working with their children to make them have the best possible future.

[grantcart]

15. excellent point and from what I understand from Autism - the earlier the

therapy starts the more effective it can be - so it even reinforces your point for parents not to go slow on the

therapy while they do other investigations.

[hogwyld]

25. As the father of an Autistic son, I agree on the early treatment

being of the greatest "bang for the buck". Me and my wife dove in to sponge up any and all information that was available. I took a job that wasn't near the top of my list so that she could stay at home and work with our son. I have to say, that the results are night and day, and he will be starting 1st grade next September!

[Robyn66]

26. Congratulations!

that is wonderful for you and your son. As I am sure you know, now you have to learn all about IE P's and how to be sure your son gets appropriate help through the school. I am sure I don't need to say this but because of what we went through I always do to parents.

You have to make sure that the teachers your son gets work well with autistic kids and that they will not berate or embarrass him in front of his peers. You would think that should be a no brainer but my daughter's school was not very concerned about this and she had some down right abusive teachers and aids. Plus a hefty bullying problem evolved out of these peers seeing adults treat her with no respect so they learned not to either. I always hope parents are lucky to have a good school that has a good Autism program and good communication.

The last bit of unsolicited advice I have is, if you ever feel in your gut that there is something wrong BELIEVE IT! And get a state advocate to help with IEP meetings etc. I wish you all the very best and forgive me if I have intruded. :hug: But I always feel like trying to look out for other parents of Autistic kids!

[hogwyld]

63. Thanks for your advice

Yes, we made sure that we moved to an area with good schools. Our son's school has an on-site special needs therapist, with monthly meetings to give an update between the parents and teachers. The teachers are very good at patience, and tamping down any bullying. The principle is fantastic in supporting the teachers needs to have a quality teaching environment. I really do appreciate our little slice of Oregon heaven!

[Robyn66]

64. You are so lucky!!!

I am so glad things are so good for you!! That will help more than you can imagine! There is nothing better than being able to trust the teachers!

[DeeDeeNY]

24. As the parent of a mentally handicapped son, I fully agree with you

You make excellent points.

[chicagomd]

28. What a wonderful perspective.

Thank you for this comment.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[theboss]

44. Um, unless, I'm crazy she was speaking as a parent of a child with Asperger's

So...yea.

[Robyn66]

58. I have seen this kind of attitude before

There are some people who get almost violent when others question Jenny McCarthy's method or ideas. That is why a lot of other people with Autistic kids are verbally attacked and consider many who follow her as cultists. That isn't to say ALL who explore her methods are but there is a real cool-aide drinking crowd out there.

[Robyn66]

55. Your personally insulting response is very interesting.

I am a PARENT of a child with autism. I have walked the walk and fought the fights. If you actually took the time to read what I said (which you quite clearly didn't) my only problem with the whole Jenny McCarthy cult is when a parent believes their child is BROKEN and REFUSES to take true steps to help that child in favor of trying to find a CURE that doesn't exist.

Normally I don't respond to rudeness, and stupidity like you spewed but I try and have hope for the human race and maybe just maybe you will realize you have not only mis characterized ME but my motives as well.

[KamaAina]

45. Mahalo (thank you) for that

Referring to Autistic kids as "broken" and claiming to being able to "cure" them with diet is destructive on a few levels.

Broken?! :grr: I'll have you know, there are several of us right here at the mighty DU! Yes, actually posting, with a computer and everything, and in one instance a few years ago, foolishly daring to challenge Will's mastery of the English language (turns out he actually found a way to make the passive voice work :shrug: )

In fact, along with various family members, supporters, etc., we even comprise our own DU Group:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=387

[Robyn66]

57. Autistic people are NOT broken!

My daughter has an insight to life that few have because of her Autism. If there was a "cure" offered to me for free, I would not want it because who she is, is part of her Autism. There is a wonderful side to Autistic kids that can be appreciated if you can accept them for who they are and embrace "neurodiversity"

Autistic kids used to be institutionalized and tied down. Thank God that isn't happening anymore but there is still a lot of misinformation out there which isn't going to make life any easier for these people as they grow up and enter the workplace. There still needs to be more education and zero tollerance for bullying these kids.

I look forward to taking a look at the DU group and hopefully participating.

[mzmolly]

46. Jenny McCarthy chose a different path than you, but it doesn't make her any

less "wonderful". I also don't agree that there isn't any science to support the need for "green vaccines" and or dietary changes.

Thank you for sharing your personal story. However, as parents we do have to allow for disagreement/differences on how we help children with various needs.

I agree you sound like a wonderful parent, as does Ms. McCarthy.

[Midlodemocrat]

103. Excellent post and I completely agree with you.

I understand where she is coming from, but I totally disagree with her.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. He is to be commended for his work for autistic kids

:applause:

[Stagmom]

9. Hi, I'm Kim

Well, hello! This popped up in a google alert today. I'm Kim Stagliano. I wrote this piece. So glad you appreciated it. Happy belated Father's Day!

KIM

[WilliamPitt]

10. Wonderful to meet you.

Welcome to DU. Wear a helmet. ;)

Excellent piece.

[PA Democrat]

13. Great piece, Kim. It brought tears to my eyes, and will probably do to the

same to my husband when he reads it.

[glitch]

32. Beautiful article, and welcome to DU. nt

[tavalon]

42. I'll say it as well

Welcome to DU but do grab a helmet. I've learned not to discuss autism in this venue because there is so much willful ignorance and outright hostility toward those of us trying to help our children.

I was pleased to see Will promoting your piece, though I knew I would probably be cussing halfway through the responses, which I have been.

[mzmolly]

47. Welcome Kim,

a pleasure to "meet" you.

[Midlodemocrat]

99. Welcome to DU!!!! What a wonderful piece. Thank you.

[PA Democrat]

12. Thanks or posting this, Will. My husband & I are the parents of a 16 year-old daughter with autism.

Parenting a child with autism is an enormous challenge. If you (and your marriage/ relationship) survive it, it makes you a stronger person. It forces you make a close examination of your priorities in life, teaches you perseverance and patience, and if you're lucky, makes you hone your sense of humor.

For someone to CHOOSE enter the world of parenting a child with autism knowing the difficulties and the challenges takes a very special person. I give Jim Carrey a LOT of credit for what he has done for Evan McCarthy and for the cause of autism.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. Too bad about all that pseudoscience bullshit.

[Feron]

16. Agreed.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/06/green_our_vaccines_celebrity_antivaccina.php

[SidDithers]

17. Thanks for posting that...nt

Sid

[progressoid]

23. Love this part...

The stupid is so concentrated that it's on the verge of forming a black hole that will suck every trace of intelligence left on the planet into its maw and leave only ignoramuses like Jim Carrey standing, untouched and staring vacantly into the void.

[progressoid]

22. Yup. eom

[alarimer]

48. He's a fucking idiot for promoting that stuff.

And will undoubtedly end up doing a LOT more harm than whatever good he's done. People will believe him because he is a celebrity. Why they believe celebrities over scientists is beyond me. Probably because people are stupid and easily swayed by emotion instead of facts.

[mzmolly]

52. We are not left to choose between celebrities and scientists.

"Scientists" share the concerns of Mr. Carey.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

77. Scientists think Carey's a fucking dipshit.

[cornermouse]

54. Since no one else in the family has any autistic kids

consider the fact that

1. The child that developed a large welt and a fever after every immunization also developed autism. The child who was mildly fussy but never had the welt or noticeable fever was not autistic.

2. We lived a couple of years in a trailer that had a strong formaldehyde odor after being closed up over the weekend. Fast forward to the FEMA trailers and I think someone should do some follow-up study to see if there is an increased incidence of autism for families who were living in those trailers and had kids afterwards.

[mzmolly]

51. Thomas Burbacher is not a pseudo scientist.

eom

[varkam]

68. Thomas Burbacher also hasn't concluded that mercury causes autism. eom

[mzmolly]

83. You can see what he's concluded here -

http://autismmedia.org/burbacher3w.html

"I was surprised at how little data were available on thimerosal"
"I thought since it was in vaccines, that there would have been more data..."

I could swear you and your ilk suggest that scientific studies have been done and "thimerosal is safe"?

What has he concluded Varkam, do you know?

[varkam]

89. Me and my ilk?

I see.

AFAIK, Burbacher has concluded that methylmercury guidelines on exposure and half-life may not be appropriate for ethylmercury - not that thimerosal causes autism. And guess what? Those studies have been done and have found no connection between autism and thimerosal.

And I know that you think Orac is a big meanie, but have a lookie as to why Burbacher's conclusions aren't exactly a smoking gun: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/02/at_least_eli_stone_was_good_for_one_thin.php

Also, here's BC on the Burbacher paper. He doesn't think it's worth a whole lot since they didn't test inorganic versus organic mercury pre-dose. I guess that makes him one of my "ilk" despite him being a parent of an autistic child - http://bartholomewcubbins.blogspot.com/2007/01/bc-on-autism-revisiting-burbacher-2005.html

Finally, more on Burbacher: http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/?p=700

Interesting that no neuroinflammation was detected, and that SafeMinds was the sponsor of the study.

[mzmolly]

90. Burdacher said that proper studies were lacking and

"methylmercury guidelines on exposure and half-life may not be appropriate for ethylmercury because" thimerosal is distributed to the brain much more readily than methylmercury.

Additionally -

"Burbacher determined that injected ethylmercury cleared from the bloodstream much more rapidly than ingested methylmercury. However, his study also found that a larger fraction of the ethylmercury remained in the brains of the macaques, where it was converted to potentially more harmful inorganic compounds."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Burbacher#Differing_effects_of_ethylmercury_in_thimerosal_containing_vaccines

As for orac, I think he's biased a blowhard. And why should I care what "BC" thinks about Burbacher?

You don't know if vaccines trigger austism in vulnerable children or not, and as such you should stop defending those who wish to remove any possible avoidance of such a reaction. Why do you fear change Varkam? Why can't vaccines be made safer?

I will close with the words of the good scientist -

"The bottom line is that trying to assess the effects of a compound with very little or no data is not a good thing to do. ... Unfortunately, we started doing studies on this compound way too late. Basic information like this should've been available decades ago."

Perhaps if people like Orec and yourself did not reject the need for these basic studies, we would have had them decades ago?

I'm off to other issues.

If you have questions email the good Dr. I'm certain he'll be kind enough to reply.

http://depts.washington.edu/chdd/iddrc/res_aff/burbacher.html

Cheers

[varkam]

91. But they didn't measure inorganic versus organic mercury...

as BC explains - which is why you should care about what he has to say...that and he's a scientist (you know, one of those people that went to school to learn things about how research works). Perhaps if you'd take your fingers out of your ears for a few seconds, you'd understand why the Burbacher study isn't all you're cracking it up to be - but I realize that having one's fingers in one's ears is quite fashionable for the anti-vax movement these days.

As for Orac...well, I guess if you can't refute what he has to say then it's off to the ad hominems. I'll give you a chance here, though - what evidence do you have of his personal biases? I'll be waiting.

You don't know if vaccines trigger austism in vulnerable children or not, and as such you should stop defending those who wish to remove any possible avoidance of such a reaction. Why do you fear change Varkam? Why can't vaccines be made safer?

The science hasn't borne that conclusion out. You're welcome to go scream it from the mountaintops, but it's not likely that very many people are going to take you seriously given that the mercury militias main hypotheses have so far been rejected by the data (hence the shift from mercury to ambiguous toxins).

And sure, vaccines can be made safer - but that's just a strawman argument attempting to grab the middle-ground. I think we should work to reduce the amount of ADRs that people have in response to vaccines, but we need to do it using science as a guide, not as an ideological platform in the way that SafeMinds and other organizations seem to do.

I agree that basic information should of been obtained a while ago, but the fact that there's limited information on it does not mean that mercury is teh evul. There may be limited information on the pharmacokinetic properties of thimerosal, but there is an abundance of data that has failed to support the claim that vaccines cause any sort of neurodevelopmental disorder. Hell, even Burbacher himself said that there was zero neuroinflammation in his study.

[mzmolly]

92. BC is a "scientist" who hasn't revealed his name, correct?

Burbacher set out to examine ethyl vs. methyl mercury.

http://www.calpoison.org/public/mercury.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Burbacher

Differing effects of ethylmercury in thimerosal containing vaccines

In 2005, a study Burbacher conducted confirmed that thimerosal is distributed to the brain much more readily than methylmercury, and he is now working on a follow-up project will examine the effects of the vaccine preservative on primate development. Burbacher's primate studies, funded by the National Institute of Health (NIH), have included comparisons of the effects of injected ethylmercury, the primary active ingredient in thimerosal, to those of orally administered methylmercury on macaques. His research sought to determine whether federal safety limits for methylmercury exposure are a suitable reference for assessing the effects of ethylmercury found in thimerosal containing vaccines (TCVs). His research revealed significant differences between methyl- and ethylmercury metabolism.<1>, <2>,

Burbacher determined that injected ethylmercury cleared from the bloodstream much more rapidly than ingested methylmercury. However, his study also found that a larger fraction of the ethylmercury remained in the brains of the macaques, where it was converted to potentially more harmful inorganic compounds. Burbacher did not draw conclusions regarding the relative toxicity of ethylmercury versus methylmercury, but did warn that methylmercury is unlikely to be a suitable reference for evaluating ethylmercury toxicity. The problem, according to Burbacher, is that regulators trying to assess the potential harm of TCVs used methylmercury, a widely studied compound, as a benchmark for mercury exposure, rather than the little-known compound called ethylmercury used in TCVs.

"the mercury militias main hypotheses have so far been rejected"

You mean the strawman hypotheses that "vaccines are THE cause of autism"?

"There may be limited information on the pharmacokinetic properties of thimerosal, but there is an abundance of data that has failed to support the claim that vaccines cause any sort of neurodevelopmental disorder."

No there is an abundance of epi data which conflicts other epi data, thus the need for the kind of studies Mr. Burbacher is taking on.

As for the neuroinflammation, I don't believe that anyone claimed this was the crux of his research. Seems like another distraction to me? In fact Burbacher called for future studies in this regard:

"* Future studies of Thimerosal should focus on the neurotoxic
effects of organic and inorganic mercury following exposure.

* Inorganic mercury has been associated with activation of microglia in the brain of
adult non human primates (neuroinflammation)

* Inorganic mercury has a very long half-life in the brain (years)

* A recent report suggests that neuroinflammation is present in brains of autistic
children

* Information on the developmental neurotoxicity of thimerosal is critical if we are to
respond to public concerns regarding the safety of childhood immunizations"

As for the wish to reduce ADR's how will this happen when we continually deny the testimony of families effected by said incidents?

From Burbachers presentation -

http://www.doh.wa.gov/CFH/mch/Autism/documents/BurbacherPresentation.pdf

“What do we know about what happens to the
mercury in Thimerosal (or ethylmercury) when it
is injected in infants (human or animal).”
Answer: Very Little"

I'm done Varkam.

Have the last word.

[varkam]

95. Given the fact that scientists...

have recieved death threads from the anti-vaxx folks, maybe he's (rightly) concerned about the safety of both himself and his family. You're still not addressing the fact that Burbacher et al. didn't measure pre and post organic versus inorganic mercury content, thereby making the results of the study unintelligible. There's that ad hominem thing again, though. Thanks for letting me know that you can't refute what he has to say. :hi:

You mean the strawman hypotheses that "vaccines are THE cause of autism"?

No. I meant what I said - that thimerosal in vaccines cause autism.

No there is an abundance of epi data which conflicts other epi data, thus the need for the kind of studies Mr. Burbacher is taking on.

Absolute rubbish. There are exactly zero epidemological studies (that haven't been "conducted" by the Geiers or other cranks such as Wakefield) that show thimerosal content in vaccines cause autism. The reason why I singled out the Geiers is because they have a nasty habit of making up data. I can give you those links again to support that claim again, if you wish. I do believe we've been over this before, though, haven't we?

Flipping through Burbacher's presentation, I noticed several references to work done by the Geiers, including some work that was formally sanction for what I mentioned above. I would also like to know how Burbacher knows that the half-life for thimerosal in the brain is "years". I did a quick google search, but the only things that I turned up were Burbacher's conclusions that lacked any sort of citation.

[mzmolly]

96. So we're to take his word that he's a "scientist"?

"You're still not addressing the fact that Burbacher et al. didn't measure pre and post organic versus inorganic mercury content, thereby making the results of the study unintelligible."

So you think the monkeys used were fed a diet high in tuna? I'm not sure one could get an accurate measurment of this nature regarding the brain, without animal sacrifice BEFORE such a study even begins?

Also, unintelligible to whom? The crux of the big phara strawman for some time (which you yourself praddled) was "ethylmercury leaves the blood faster...." with no consideration for the impact on the brain. One study will not answer every question in this regard, thus the need for many more as the good Dr. Burbacher points out.

"I would also like to know how Burbacher knows that the half-life for thimerosal in the brain is "years". I did a quick google search, but the only things that I turned up were Burbacher's conclusions that lacked any sort of citation."

Refer to the references in the article or send an email to the address I provided you above. I believe a 1985 rat study is noted?

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1280342

Though, I believe the quote in context is that could remain in the brain for years?

169 related articles here:

http://tinyurl.com/59wdop

You yourself have admitted that several like studies should have been done long ago, yet you note the "there are no studies to prove XYZ assertion".

"No. I meant what I said - that thimerosal in vaccines cause autism." Correction, "thimerosal in vaccines contribute to autism in some cases".

Edited to add correct link.

[varkam]

98. Hmm...

So you think the monkeys used were fed a diet high in tuna? I'm not sure one could get an accurate measurment of this nature regarding the brain, without animal sacrifice BEFORE such a study even begins?

Oh, I'm sure you of all people know that mercury can come from many, many sources ;)

I apparently failed to relate the objections accurately. Here's a better picture:

"The real problem with this paper is the fact that a direct measurement of each compound of interest is not accomplished. Rather, the tissue is homogenized and then an organic extraction is conducted. From the different phases come the parts of the sample that are applied to the spec.

The spec measures the concentration of the element mercury. It is up to the user to then attribute that concentration to the phase and thus, to the form of mercury that resided in the tissue.

So what happens to intact thimerosal during the organic extraction? Why didn't the group inject homogenate with thimerosal, ethyl, methyl, and inorganic mercury to provide a baseline by which extraction efficiency and extraction degradation could be measured and taken into account? I see assumptions bundled with missing data."

In other words, when the Burbacher team performed the extraction of mercury from the blood or brain matter, they failed to introduce controls to ensure that the thimerosal was not degraded in any way as a result of the extraction process. This means they had to basically assume from the resultant possibly contaminated material how much was attributable to methylmercury and how much to thimerosal (ethylmercury).

Also, unintelligible to whom? The crux of the big phara strawman for some time (which you yourself praddled) was "ethylmercury leaves the blood faster...." with no consideration for the impact on the brain. One study will not answer every question in this regard, thus the need for many more as the good Dr. Burbacher points out.

Well, ethylmercury does leave the blood faster - and again Burbacher's results aren't all you're cracking them up to be (did you watch that video I linked to, yet?)

One citiation is in the references in the study you said you read:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8122267

169 related articles here:

http://tinyurl.com/59wdop

Note that the subjects in the study were exposed to either daily injections for months and months, or were given a continuous IV infusion. There might be a difference in how long inorganic mercury metabolizes and is elimanted between the results from those studies and from vaccine methodology alone.

You yourself have admitted that several like studies should have been done long ago, yet you note the "there are no studies to prove XYZ assertion".

So? The epidemiological evidence all but rules out a connection. Having the basic research is just good common sense, but, again, there's no epidemiological evidence to suggest that the merc-militia has been right about any if it's shrinking causation claims. I'm not exactly waiting with baited breath to see if the latest hypothesis pans out, given that they don't exactly have a stellar track record with making predictions.

"No. I meant what I said - that thimerosal in vaccines cause autism." Correction, "thimerosal in vaccines contribute to autism in some cases".

I know, it's the incredible shrinking causation claim. First it's that it causes autism, now it's that it causes autism in certain populations, and I'm sure that before long we'll be back to playing the toxin gambit again.

[mzmolly]

100. My claim has remained consistent.

As I've said, the last word is yours.

Have a lovely afternoon Varkam.

[varkam]

102. What about the problems with Burbacher's study? eom

[mzmolly]

106. What problems?

Dr. B called for future studies. He never suggested the study I referenced was the "end all". Unfortunately it's largely the beginning of necessary studies, after decades of using this product on our infants.

I've suggested that if you have questions or concerns, you should email the Dr. directly. And, I've been kind enough to provide you with his email address.

[varkam]

107. Read the bolded section in my previous post. eom

[mzmolly]

109. See my response above. eom

[varkam]

110. Well, that poses pretty big problems as far as the conclusions that he draws, doesn't it?

The issue of chanting more research aside, let's focus on the results in Burbacher's study.

[mzmolly]

111. I think it poses a problem for those of you who

have claimed "thimerosal is safe" and "there have been numerous studies proving thimerosal is safe" and "thimerosal in vaccines has never triggered autism" than it does for those of us who wish to see more studies that dig deeper into the strong possibility that (mercury in the form of thimerosal) can damage the brain.

I find it shameful that those of you who defended the use of this substance in our children for so long (claiming extensive studies existed to bolster your bravado) are only left to critique this study vs. supply your own hard, scientific proof.

Feel free to come away with your own opinion.

[varkam]

112. Quit changing the subject.

What do you think that those problems mean for the conclusions of the study?

[mzmolly]

113. The subject is vaccine safety.

However, the fact that you've got the talking points down ala an un-named "scientist" doesn't mean much to me, personally.

I prefer we do studies on known neurotoxins BEFORE we inject them into infants. It seems you're ok with doing them decades later and then finding critique from someone "claiming" to be a scientist when the results don't fit your preconceived notions?

If you can find critique from a named, credentialed scientist, I'll be glad to comment further and/or ask the good Dr. for a response.

[varkam]

114. Way to go.

I see you're insistent on not commenting on the problems with the Burbacher study, despite them being pointed out to you. It seems you'd rather change the subject to an area where, rhetorically, you feel more comfortable.

I agree that such studies should of been done sooner, but the fact that they are not there doesn't make your theories on vaccine safety accurate. It seems that, rather than care about accuracy or truth, you are quick to embrace studies with methodological flaws...so long as they support what you already believe.

As you said, I'm done here. :hi:

[mzmolly]

115. I'm not going to take the word of an unnamed "scientist"

over a respected, credentialed scholar.

However, I have forwarded the info to the esteemed Dr. and I'll let you know if he feels inclined to respond.

Peace

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

76. Was I talking about Thomas Burbacher?

[mzmolly]

84. You should be

http://autismmedia.org/burbacher3w.html

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

85. This was a thread about dipshit pseudoscientists.

Do you really want to associate this Burbacher guy with dipshit pseudoscience?

[mzmolly]

86. I took the thread to be about Jim Carey and Autism.

I'm off to other subjects today.

Peace

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

87. Yes.

Dipshit pseudoscience.

:shrug:

[mzmolly]

88. All I ask is that you watch the video

BA.

Again, peace.

[KamaAina]

18. I've often wondered how Evan is getting along with his new stepdad

interacting with Jim Carrey might be a little, ah, intense even for neurotypicals (that is, people who don't have autism). But for Evan? Wee-ha!

[KT2000]

19. They are to be commended

for raising the profile of autism - especially Jenny McCarthy. She is fearless in her advocacy.

This nation is falling all over itself over a couple hundred cases of salmonella poisoning, but we are in the process of creating the most brain damaged generation in history. This should be a national emergency but it is not.

Just finished a book by the late Bernard Rimland,Ph.D., "Dyslogic Syndrome: Why Millions of Kids are Hyper, Attention-Disordered, Learning Disabled, Depressed, Aggressive, Defiant or Violent."

Recommended reading. As he states often, these children will grow to be mentally disordered adults. As adults, they are often found among the homeless, prison population, alcoholics and drug addicted.

[TrogL]

29. Oh, God not this crap again

"...exposes the influences of toxins..."

I googled his name and quickly came up with some book reviews.

...condemnation of medication, psychotherapy, and conventional medicine
...characterization of children with disabilities as "tragic" and "ruined"


And when I googled "autism charcoal" I came up with some sort of bullshit about autism being caused by yeast infections which should be treated with charcoal, which is more dangerous nonsense.

I cannot believe someone of Jim Carrey's stature and influence can be peddling this shit.

[KT2000]

33. Please google

Philip Landrigan MD
for children, infectious diseases have by and large been brought under control. Now, it is the assault to their development that we need to address.

here is a start:
http://www.ehponline.org/docs/2000/suppl-3/intro.html

[Midlodemocrat]

101. I have worked with many families of disabled children

and IMHO, people who are parenting a child with a severe disability such as the one Evan experiences are desperate for any kind of reason. Anything. I have a neighbor with a child with Down Syndrome. He is profoundly mentally challenged, and she was 26 when she had him. He's now 20.

She grew up in MA near the Foster Grant factory and after it closed down, there was a big to do about the toxins left behind by the factory.

To this day, she believes that is what caused her child's Down Syndrome. Of course, anyone with a computer can quickly realize how wrong she is.

My point is, all parents want the best for their children and when nature goes a bit sideways, it throws people.

For me, I don't believe that thimerosal is responsible for autism. There are too many clinicians and scientists who have come to the conclusion that there is both a genetic as well as an environmental trigger.

[kimmerspixelated]

35. Thanks for rec. that book.

Everyone needs to really dig deep and do some actual research before they so flippantly decide that vaccines do more good than harm! When you get some solid facts that aren't backed by Big Pharma, you will find that one of the reasons behind the ending or lessening of diseases has a lot to do with hygeine measures, something they fail to include in their, "studies". They may admit that it is the best defense when there is an outbreak, but they still peddle their toxic sludge ad nauseum, literally!

And yet the folks on the other side, think they are so right. I say go ahead and innoculate, if you desire, just don't demonize those that have become more educated!


I have always admired Jim Carrey as well, and justly so. He's a champ!

[alarimer]

49. Fucking dangerous idiots the lot of them.

Ignorant antiscientific CRAP.

I can't believe anyone is spouting this shit.

Fuck Jim Carrey, that ignorant piece of shit.

[mzmolly]

50. Sounds like a very interesting book.

Thank you KT.

[dccrossman]

20. Thank you for posting

My daughter has Mitochondrial Encephalomyopathy Complex I & III. See www.umdf.org for the curious.
(Say that 3 times fast.)

It's not quite the same as Autism, but similarly, she has developmental delays and I'm very familiar with the IEP, the OT, the PT, and the Speech Therapy.

I've been reading DU for over a year, but I really wanted to reply to this and so I finally registered.

Thank you,

SilverDev
A dad
-=-

[WilliamPitt]

21. Cheers

and welcome aboard.

:toast:

[earth mom]

27. One of your better posts-Thanks. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

30. I've got an autistic nephew

This is a situation that makes or breaks parents. Jim and Jenny are both really good people, were before the fame and moneybags, and remained so.
I'm very glad they are speaking about it. It makes it easier for others and gets the word out about autism. I wish them both strength and joy.

[glitch]

31. Now this is a thread about a celebrity that I can recommend. Thanks for posting. nt

[Raven]

34. Hey Sweetie. Someone posted here who I work with. Can you guess?

[WilliamPitt]

36. Robyn66?

:)

Say hello for me.

[Raven]

38. You are just such a smart shit! I will, she'll love it! But, you knew!

[Robyn66]

56. Hi Will!!!

:hi: Hopefully you and your Mom can come by for dinner the next time you are in the neighborhood!!!!

[cabbage08]

37. K & R

[tavalon]

39. Autism hasn't made me a man

but it has made me a hell of a mother. We've been gfcf for 7 years in our house and our kid gets twice the space in the medicine cabinet. We're just now getting ready to start our chelation program with him and I'm waiting for the B12 in the mail. It is all so sadly familiar, the buzzwords used in that article and I've been aware of Jenny McCarthy's fight for her autistic child and also for mine.

Jim Carrey and I are similar in that we chose this path. He chose to come in and be a helpmate to Jenny. I've come into this family of mine likewise. People are always shocked that I'm willing to go to such great lengths for "someone else's child", but little guy isn't someone else's child, he has become a loved child of my own. His smile can light up a room, with light to spare and unfortunately his tantrums can break bones. He was just a bit over 4 feet when I came into his life and now we look eye to eye and as the next few years pass, I expect him to tower over me. I hope this latest round of stuff will make some difference for him and for us. He talks like a magpie, but none of it is directed and his receptive language isn't much better than that. He's also extremely hyperactive which makes things all the more interesting.

[Canuckistanian]

43. Thanks, Will.

I'm the father of an autistic child, although luckier than most. He's high-functioning, doing well in school and has a more active social life than myself.

But I worry about his future sometimes.

[Robyn66]

59. I know the feeling

My daughter is very high functioning as well but she still has one of the widest disparities between intelligence and social skills her diagnosing doctor has ever seen, especially in a girl.

To most adult she is a delight with a beautiful singing voice but her social life at school is hell on earth. Until recently there was no "Autism" program for her to be in an her teachers were either not interested or abusive. They allowed kids to bully her and when I would show them her test results that demonstrated clearly that she doesn't have the ability to decode many social situations they would say things like "well she has to learn some how" They wouldn't understand that she had serious limitations on her social ABILITIES.

Anyway, she is in a better school and better environment now. My one fear is that she isn't as leary of people as she needs to be. My husband and I have got to be sure she is married to a good man before we die! Because she believes people are good. That is a very dangerous attitude to have in this world now.

[cornermouse]

53. It takes a lot of courage to face up to

a child's lifetime of disability. Autism is particularly hard because their appearance is usually pretty normal while their behavior, depending on the severity, can be pretty wild at times. Some birth fathers can't cope with it. Jim Carrey apparently has a ton of courage and has my respect as well. Good luck to Jenny, her son, and Jim. Hopefully someone, somewhere will find a cure for this.

[Robyn66]

60. There is no cure for Autism

But there are therapies that can teach the Autistic person how to decode the world around them.

There are other developmental disabilities that can be outgrown. My daughter's first diagnosis was for Non Verbal Learning Disability. I was told that some children DO outgrow that. Their brains change as they grow so it is more of a developmental delay in the social centers of the brain. Unfortunately children who have Autism tend to worsen and the disparity becomes more pronounced. This is what happened to my daughter.

I am a firm believer in feeding your family as much organic food as possible and removing as many chemicals and artificial ingredients as possible. I have a theory that pesticides, artificial colors preservatives etc that our grandparents, parents and we have ingested over time may have impacted our genes some how to help create the Autism epidemic that we are experiencing today. That being said we need to consult with respected doctors, hospitals and therapists for how to best help our children move forward with Autism.

[cornermouse]

61. I know there is not a cure now.

But someday...

My grandparents were farmers who grew most of their own food. They kept potatoes either out in the potato "shed/shelter" or later when the temperature dropped, in boxes in the house. Tomatoes were individually wrapped and kept in boxes in a barely heated part of the house. When you ate canned food at their house, it was always home canned from the storage closet, not store bought. Grandpa was well aware of the danger of pesticides because he told me one day that he thought the bluebirds were making a comeback after one of the more virulent pesticides was taken off the market about 40 years ago. My mother did almost all of her cooking from scratch, again not much artificial colors and preservatives that typically come in mixes and partially or completely pre-prepared food and I did as well until I went back to work when the last of my kids were old enough to go to school. So I'm going to have to politely but firmly reject pesticides, artificial colors and preservatives as the cause because we never had enough money to buy that type of food.

[Robyn66]

62. Its just a theory based on basically nothing but an opinion :)

I have always just wondered how all of the chemicals in food, water, the air, post WWII all kinds of products might have effected us as they were passed down the line. My understanding is that Autism is genetic and I can see little sprinkles of it through my and my husband's family so that isn't a surprise.

I know that having a child with Aspergers, I am lucky because I am not met with some of the intense challenges of other parents who face children who are non verbal and act out in very difficult ways. In fact I admire those people with all my heart for their strength and love. But my daughters Autism has shaped who she is and she is wonderful. I wouldn't take a cure. In my opinion it would be like going from a color hd TV back to black and white Philco. These kids have gifts that many of us can only dream of. I watch her figure out complicated math in her HEAD but need an aide to do the writing for her. I wouldn't take that away from her for the world!

But there are other kids who are non verbal, break glass and have some really destructive behaviors that not only endanger themselves but their entire families. One of my friends has a son like that. I do pray there is something that comes along that has been developed responsibly that can help break through to his world so he can be communicated with and express his feelings in a more safe way.

So its all still a mystery. There is no magic bullet or diet and no progress really made without a lot of love, attention and qualified professionals.

[hunter]

108. I blame some of it on leaded gasoline and insecticides...

Potent neurotoxins, those, and just because it seems insecticides are a deadly nerve gas for insects and not humans, doesn't mean we are 100% certain... Prenatal and childhood exposure to lead or insecticides is associated with a variety of unpleasant cognitive disorders.

But I also think all the kinks haven't been worked out in our evolution. Our complicated brains are a kludge of the worst sort, and there are plenty of things like autism lurking in our genes.

There's a lot of noise about diet, vaccines, etc., but most of it is simply noise and incoherent cries of anguish. If this noise drowns out the underlying music, that's bad.

[Stagmom]

65. Recovery is happening

Recovery is happening for children every day. They are losing their very real autism diagnosis. Why would anyone be so against children having better functioning and ability to relate to the world? It's like wishing a blind kid would stay blind. Is blindness bad? Not necessarily. Plenty of sight-impaired people have a wonderful, fulfilled life. However, if you were a parent and had an opportunity to help your child see, see better, see just a bit, see your face, see well enough to cross the street without getting smacked by traffic, wouldn't you? That's rhetorical, by the way. I know there are many people who want children with severe impairments from their autism to remain that way. I just don't know why.

By teh way, does my helmet (required on the site I'm told) make my hair look flat? ;)

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/news/x875591989/Sudbury-boy-is-coming-up-for-air

http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/06/recovery-story.html

Kim
HuffPo blogger
Managing Editor www.ageofautism.com
Mom to three beautiful girls who have full blown autism

[Stagmom]

66. Aspergers and Treatment

Robyn66, hello. I'm not sure if you might be an adult with autism or Aspergers. If you are, you might find this story interesting. I am friends with John Robison, NYT best selling author of Look Me In The Eye, brother of Augusten Burroughs and "Aspergian." He is undergoing experimental treatment at Harvard. The results have simply blown everyone away. For instance, he can make full eye contact. His voice has changed and is more fluid. He can read people's expression and no longer has to try to decipher nuances in conversation. His gait is smoother. He smiles naturally in photos. Several other Aspergians in the study have had similar astounding results. This is at HARVARD and is deadly serious research with outcomes no one could have dreamed of.

I've written about John at Age of Autism. Do pop over to read about the treatment. Autism IS treatable, that doesn't mean we do not value people with autism. I adore my children and I will continue to do everything in my power to help them until the day I die. (I wrote about that on HuffPo too...)

http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/05/john-robison-ca.html

http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/05/read-more-about.html

http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/06/john-elder-robi.html

www.huffingtonpost.com/kim-stagliano

www.kimstagliano.blogspot.com

Yours in health,

KIM

[Robyn66]

69. My Daughter has autism not me

I guess I am having problems communicating what I am saying. I am glad if there is research to help kids with Aspergers and Autism.

As far as my experience, there is no cure.

In my experience with my daughter and how we decided to accept it and get her support that doctors at Crotched Mountain suggested and get her therapists that have helped her.

I did not ever consider her "broken" in my experience, calling or referring to a child as "broken" even if you are not directly calling them that is a negative thing to do.

In my experience, I would do anything possible to enhance my daughters life and support her. What I will NOT do is rely on what a celebrity says. I guess to some people that makes me horrible but so be it.

I am very interested in reading about any study that helps kids with Aspergers and Autism but I will not waste precious time that my daughter needs with support professionals exploring a fad.

If you take that as my being anything but a mother who would run into a burning building for her child or explore any therapy that could possibly help her, then I give up.

[Midlodemocrat]

105. Just wondering and forgive me for being intrusive,

but have you attempted the Feingold diet? Anecdotally quite a few of my former patients did very well on it.

Just curious. It has a variety of positive effects IF it is going to work on a particular child.

[Robyn66]

71. Pelase tell me when I said I was agianst children having better functioning and ability to relate to

the world? I appreciate my daughter for who she is and enjoy her with all my heart. And frankly, that was a pretty lousy thing for you to say. Does that mean I don't have high expectations for her? I am just facing reality and working as hard as I can to get my daughter the help she needs to become a self sufficient safe adult who can do anything she wants to.

FINE I give up!

[Stagmom]

78. No, no, a generalization

No, Robyn, I was referring to you. Not at all. I get a lot of mail and comments on my blog posts with that theme though. By the way, my cousin lived at Crotchet Mountain for many years.

Peace.

KS

[Robyn66]

80. Thank you :)

Its been a tough day!

[Stagmom]

81. I hear you

I understand, Robyn.! I have girls with autism too. The LAST thing I ever want to do is make an autism Mom feel like crap. We have enough crap in our lives! Hormones, autism, monthly things - aye yi yi! I'm trying to think of how to write a Huffington Post around a ceiling fan in my kitchen that POURED FORTH water last week after my youngest put a pad in the toilet upstairs and flushed it 42 times.... Truth is stranger (and often funnier) than fiction in my house.

Drop into my Kim blog, won't you? I'd love the company. Lots of sympatico Moms there. We have much to learn from each other.

www.kimstagliano.blogspot.com

KIM

[Robyn66]

82. I sure will!!!

Thanks sweetie. I will be sure to.

[Missy Vixen]

93. We don't have kids, Stagmom

I just wanted to chime in here and say how much I admire those who spend every day advocating for and loving their children. You all don't give up, and it's a powerful lesson for the rest of us.

Thank you for the reminder.
Julie

p.s. Your hair looks great!

[Midlodemocrat]

104. For the same reason that parents of children

who are completely deaf and deaf themselves don't wish their children to hear. It's become quite a controversy since the popularity of cochlear implants.

[NC_Nurse]

67. Thanks for the article, Will. I have a brother who is autistic/delayed and my

son has Asperger's. I am not interested in the controversies over diet and treatment. We have done what works for us.
My brother was severely delayed/disabled as a child from neurological injury at birth. He has many autistic features as well as garden-variety
mental handicaps. My parents worked their tails off to get him the support/therapies and education he needed to learn to function independently
back when most people had never heard of autism and the law with regard to mainstreaming was new and nobody seemed to know how to do it.

When my son was having difficulty early on, I was able to get him tested and get him the help he needed because the field has come such a long way.
His Asperger's is fairly mild and he got plenty of help through the worst years (middle school was tough). He is now a rising junior in college and doing very well.
He is a joy to be with and I am so proud and happy for him.

My brother works, has his own apartment, and has learned to control his meltdowns in order to keep the same job for 20 years. That's a miracle, believe me.

I wish all the fathers and stepfathers of these children the best. You will have to forge this road with the best knowledge of the time and the clearest intuition
of your child's wants and needs. It can be done. There is a lot of support out there. Ultimately, it is you who decides what works for your child - nobody else
knows them like you do. Make sure your choices for a course of action are about THEM and not you. Take time for yourself. That's all the wisdom I have, it might be
bullshit. Hang in there.

[Robyn66]

72. Its good to see he is doing well

You have a great deal of wisdom!

[NC_Nurse]

74. Thanks! I enjoyed reading what you had to say too : )

Sounds like you're doing a great job!

We all have our bad and good days...sometimes I feel really blessed, other times, not so much. :hi:

[JanMichael]

70. Jim Carrey seems to get involved with whatever his current wife/girlfriend is

into.

I wonder if his interest in this will last. I don't have much respect for him.

[Missy Vixen]

94. Isn't it better that he draw attention to this with his celebrity?

Again, I just wrote to Stagmom that we have no kids. I recall seeing multiple articles in national media of he and Jenny McCarthy's advocacy for this issue, though.

Hopefully, his interest won't wane, but if it does, he's advanced the cause of exploring the reasons for (and perhaps treatment of) autism by shining a spotlight on it. I'd much rather read about this than Brangelina's latest tattoo or Jamie Lynn Spears' new baby.

Julie

[EFerrari]

73. Beautiful. n/t

[Iggo]

75. Nice guy.

I still hate his act.

But glad to see he's a good guy.

[proud patriot]

79. I'll toast to that , I work with pre schoolers with disabilities

:toast:

[SoCalDem]

97. Yep.. someone posted it the day after Father's Day.. Jim's not a bad egg

:)