Should Manson Family Member, Susan Atkins be Paroled?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

Susan Atkins, who became famous by stabbing to death Sharon Tate during the Manson Family murders has once again come up for parole. This time she asks the court for leniency because she has a brain tumor and may not live more than 6 months.

Sharon Tate begged for her life and for the life of her fully developed fetus. Susan Atkins showed her zero mercy.

Atkins also participated in the killing of Gary Hinman who also begged for his life.

Susan Atkins says she has changed after spending 37 years behind bars. She is a model prisoner. Does this justify releasing her to die at home?

In my opinion, she should die behind bars. She and her friends destroyed hundreds of lives and effected all of us who watched the aftermath of that horrible crime.

She had been given the death penalty but you probably remember that in CA it was found to be unconstitutional and so the Manson Family's sentences were commuted to life in prison.

BTW, I do not support the death penalty.

During her trial she laughed when talking about how Sharon Tate begged for her life - In fact she got a big kick out of the whole court drama. I am happy she has changed while in prison.

[Gabi Hayes]

1. are you a practicing Christian?

just curious

[QueenOfCalifornia]

2. No

I am not.

I am an atheist.

[Gabi Hayes]

19. zen...anything along those lines?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

47. WTF?

I believe that justice is one thing and forgiveness another. If the families of the victims want to let her out, fine. They do not. They show up at every parole board hearing and beg the board to keep her in prison for LIFE.

I feel for the woman. I do. But I believe the feelings of the families of the victims are paramount.

Do I have to have a belief in the supernatural to understand this? No.

I believe in respecting the world and people around me and doing the best I can never to harm anyone.

[Iris]

64. I don't really have an opinion about this, but I do know our justice system isn't based on what

families or even victims want. While their showing up at parole hearings certainly holds weight, people can't just get out of jail because the victim or the victim's family forgives them.

[Boojatta]

3. Is everyone ready to discuss Manson Family Values?

:popcorn:

[GCP]

4. No.

I don't believe in the death penalty, but in the cases where a fully functioning adult (IOW not a young immature kid), kills in cold blood, then they should be in jail for the rest of their life.

[Mandate My Ass]

5. Let her out - she's no threat to anyone

and yes -- I'm every bit as outraged at her violent and callous behavior of the past as you are.

It's not about our outrage. It does not serve society (or humanity) in any way to prolong the suffering of a sick old woman. Sue me. :shrug:

[last_texas_dem]

14. I agree with you

I know it's not a popular view here (I'm thinking of the earlier LBN thread), but I would not have a problem with releasing her, either. She is already suffering and I've seen no indication that releasing her from prison would pose a threat to society.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

48. See my post upthread #47 I think?

I think the families feelings should prevail - Not the feelings of Atkins.

[NightWatcher]

6. I'm anti death penalty with one exception: natural death

if someone is sentenced to a hundred years, they should have to serve them all or at least as many as they can before they pass from this mortal coil.

Atkins should die in prison remembering the mistakes that she made

[Demobrat]

7. She was given life in prison.

Not life in prison unless she contracted a life-threatening illness. She should serve out her term .

[bluestateguy]

8. I'm inclined to say no

If she had shown remorse and contrition many years ago, then I could support releasing her, if she was truly terminally ill.

But I am not convinced that her remorse is genuine, if she has any at all. And if she does, I think she is too late.

[Ikonoklast]

9. Sentence was passed.

She has lived far longer than her victims.

I don't care if she can walk on water, and heal the sick by laying on her hands, she should rot in prison until death takes her.

Do the crime, do the time.

[JuniperLea]

10. No

This is as silly as the guy who wanted a stay of execution because he was ill... too sick to die.

Susan Atkins was a messed up person... she laughed at the pain she and her pals caused. She should have never been eligible for parole, imho.

It's good she has been a model prisoner; it's good for her personal "soul". Beyond that, so what?

GAWD! That sounds cruel as hell. I'm not a cruel person, but I'm a very protective person when it comes to innocent people. The citizenry of the US is better off with Susan Atkins in jail, if for no other reason than to show what happens when people kill people.

[Dorian Gray]

22. I agree

I actually feel sorry for her suffering, but a part of reparations for her crime is to serve out her time. I do not believe she should be released from jail because she is ill now.

[Benhurst]

11. No. I am against the death penalty. A sentence of life without parole should be just

that: life in prison with absolutely no chance of parole. To make exceptions, especially in the case of a person convicted of such vile crimes, undermines any chance we have to convince our fellow citizens to join us in the abolition of the death penalty.

[Contrary1]

18. But, the sentence was not "life without parole".

Atkins has had 17 parole hearings, with the next one scheduled in June, 2009.

[Benhurst]

33. Thanks for the correction. I had assumed that she had been given

life without parole. Still, I find her a poor candidate for parole. Her crimes were cold-blooded and premeditated.

[LiberalAndProud]

51. The sentence was death, originally..

[MichiganVote]

12. No. The justice system worked and she has the sentence that was warranted.

People can die in prison from natural causes. Sharon Tate suffered without justice. This woman can suffer with justice.

[stillcool]

13. I don't understand why..

she would want to be released. Life on the outside isn't what it used to be.

[Mz Pip]

15. Life in prison

means IN PRISON. She's getting better care there then a lot of the people in this country.

Having a brain tumor sucks, but it isn't justification to be released from prison.

[LeftyMom]

16. The punishment fetishists on this thread disturb me.

I think we're looking at three different conceptions of what prison is for: is it there to punish people until they're really, really sorry, to reform prisoners or to keep them away from the general public and protect society from further crime? Obviously, most of the people on this thread believe in the former, but that's a pretty strange idea, because it makes people sorry they got caught, not sorry they committed crime (or recidivism rates would be lower) and the few who do show remorse would probably do the same in another environment. If the idea is reform, then we're going about it all wrong. I would argue that the idea is to protect the general public, by keeping people who are known to victimize others locked up until we have reason to believe they will no longer do so (generally with the younger males who make up the majority of prisoners, they just get too old to continue their criminality.)

I don't see why it matters whether she's technically in custody in her hospital room or temporarily paroled to her hospital room, what's she going to do, hop after somebody on one leg and whack them with her IV? There's nothing the prison system can do to her to make terminal brain cancer one tiny bit worse, so I'm not sure why the people fapping to the idea of her misery are so gleeful.

[Gabi Hayes]

20. as I asked the OP, are these people christians?

if so, how do they justify not forgiving the sinner, heinous as the crime was?

[LeftyMom]

25. People mostly use religion to justify things they would believe anyhow, I think.

With Christians in particular, there's so much material in the Bible, and so much of it contradictory, that what passages one emphasizes and what passages one ignores can really lead to radically different interpretations. Liberal social gospel Christians and far-right fundamentalist Christians are both drawing from the same source material, only emphasizing the parts that reinforce their existing natural tendencies- if either got a hand-signed note from God Himself tomorrow that he was kidding about that whole Bible thing, they wouldn't really live their lives any differently, I suspect.

[Lucinda]

31. Laws are societal constructs. Forgiveness is something else entirely...

I can forgive the law breaker and still support the sentence.

[WindRiverMan]

34. Your grasp of Christianity perplexes me....

You equate "forgiveness" without restitution. Catholics have penance and purgatory, the Jews have their day of attonement, lots of other Protestant religions have a "you must make what was wrong, right" attitude. The big Southern Baptist movement was the beginning of "Salvation only by faith, not by works" and the whole "I know I am saved cause I believe" train of thought. It is one thing to hold her bound to her attonement, and quite another to hold her bound for her sins. Upon her death, she will served her attonement, which was, life in prison. Upon her death, she has paid her debt, at least in this life.

There is nothing un-Christian about it.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

55. As I posted upthread

Forgiveness and justice are two separate issues.

I can forgive you if you stab my pregnant daughter to death.

That has nothing to do with what a state does to you. If you are placed in prison in 1969 for the killing and sentenced to death and then the death sentence is reversed and so you get life in prison then you already are ahead of the game. You were sent there for killing my daughter regardless of how my feelings shift over the next 37 years, you have been handed your fate - you gave up being in control of your fate when you killed three human beings.

If I go to the parole board hearing and ask them to allow you out for the last few months of your life, maybe the parole board would take that into account. But guess what, I didn't t, I wanted you to serve your time - I really miss my daughter and my grandchild.

But I forgive you.

[truebrit71]

63. It ain't up to me as a Christian to forgive her....that's between her and her God...

..me?

Why should she get the compassion when she had none for her victims?

[fudge stripe cookays]

21. Gleeful...

is someone who told a sobbing, begging woman that she had no mercy for her and proceeded to stab her repeatedly until she was dead.

I'm not gleeful. She got justice. She got life in prison, and in prison she should stay until the end of her life.

[TBF]

53. I don't see anyone here acting gleeful -

and some of us non-Christians even respect the life of the person and baby who were murdered so callously. Sharon Tate was certainly not allowed to die peacefully in her husband's arms so why should her murderer be allowed that privilege?

I was against the death penalty until Timothy McVeigh came along. I do believe that people can change, and prison should be seen as rehabilitation for many. There are also many non-violent offenders who should never have been sent to prison in the first place. We incarcerate way too many people in this country. But I can hold that view and still realize there are some crimes so horrific that the criminal should not go free again. This is one of those times.

[madeline_con]

62. keep them away from the general public

that one

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

17. Absolutely.

[medeak]

23. she struggles to forgive Manson

compelling interview with Diane Sawyer...

[cabbage08]

24. No

[Booster]

26. Yes.

[medeak]

27. she lost her 1 yr old son

as well.. and thankful he doesn't know who she is and never suffered. yes..she should be allowed to die with her husband taking care of her.

[Cleita]

44. Next Charlie Manson will be wanting parole for medical reasons.

I mean it's a matter of time before old age and a end stage disease will take him over. This would set a precedence and I think it's a bad idea. Wouldn't she be allowed to go to the jail ward of a hospital when the time comes for her to die? I don't mean to be hard about this but shouldn't a life sentence be just that?

[Lucinda]

28. Nope.

[MilesColtrane]

29. It's up to God (if he exists) to forgive her.

I imagine Charlie would get a secret thrill to see one of his family released from prison, if only a short while before death.

If only for that reason alone, her sentence should be carried out.

[skooooo]

30. NO

[LWolf]

32. No.

She should be treated humanely, which is more than she did for her victims.

She should not be released.

[Disturbed]

36. Why did she get Parole Hearings?

Her DP was dropped so didn't she get Life without parole?

[LWolf]

41. Good question, and one I would also like an answer to. n/t

[flvegan]

35. I'm torn on this.

Life in prison without parole is just that. You leave in a bodybag.

However, from an economic standpoint, it would save the penal system a bunch of money. She's no threat, but I don't like the precedent this may set for other inmates.

[LeftyMom]

38. Release of old and infirm patients is a fairly common practice, at least here.

I believe the term is "compassionate release." Though as I said above, it's really only a debate about paperwork, she's going to be in the same hospital room either way. And for that matter, the state will pay for her care either way, whether it comes out of the Corrections budget or she gets covered as an indigent patient since she hasn't worked in decades.

[flvegan]

42. Florida, we just kill everybody.

Little compassion in our prison system. Well, unless you're famous rather than infamous.

We still have OJ here, though. Hard work, finding the real killer.

[LeftyMom]

45. He could be hiding on the next golf course, so he has to keep looking.

"Compassionate release" is kind of a misnomer, it's more like "cheap bastards release" since it shifts end-of-life care out of the DOC budget, freeing up money for another Correctional Officer pay increase (you wouldn't believe me if I told you what they make) or to lock up some more pot smokers. Though occasionally some people who aren't terminal qualify, I seem to recall a news story about a guy who was in his eighties and blind being released.

[treestar]

37. Just let her go home

It's been over 40 years. She's old and sick.

She was locked up because she was dangerous to society. Now she's not. It's not like she's going free to live a life. She spent her life behind bars.

[Maureen1322]

40. Sharon Tate was young and pregnant,

no release.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

52. 37 years ago she killed

with her own hands 3 people, one was unborn.

Do you feel that compassion for Atkins outweighs compassion for her victims families?

Her victims families do not want her out. They want her to remain in prison for life.

It is a sad situation but I weigh in on the side of the victims families.

She was locked up because she went on a murdering spree and the justice system worked. She was found guilty by a jury of 12 who saw all the evidence presented.

[blondeatlast]

39. No. This went WAY beyond being a crime of passion.

FWIW, I'm strongly anti-DP, but she should never get out of prison.

[Tutonic]

43. We all do things that defy logic.

Some more illogical than others. The lady has a brain tumor--and even if she didn't I find it highly unlikely after 37 years in prison that she comes out screaming Helter Skelter. If this murder had not been so notorious because of tate and Polanski being at the center of it, she would have never been given a life sentence. Let the woman die at home with some compassion and family around her. Sometimes we've got to exercise judgment bigger than ourselves--unlike William Jefferson Clinton and Ricky Ray or George. W. Bush and Carla Faye Tucker. Now those are two fine Christian gentlemen who will not hesitate to appeal to someone's religious fervor before supper and then pull the lever on the electric chair in person after midnight.

[rockymountaindem]

46. I see no reason why she should get parole n.t.

[DearAbby]

49. NO...n/t

[Blue-Jay]

50. That depends... Has she accepted Christ as her Lord & Savior?

heh. Just kidding!

Sorry, old gal, you're a murderer and your sentence isn't quite finished yet. Tough shit for you, eh?

[ForrestGump]

54. Nope

Not even.

[H2O Man]

56. Terminally ill people

are often paroled so that they can die in the home of a family member. Susan Atkins is near death,and will not be out-and-about.

(Note: on first reading, I did not see your reference to her illness.)

[Midlodemocrat]

57. I'm torn on this.

If she were healthy, no way. No release. But, she's not healthy, she's dying. Nothing the state could do to her would be worse than dying from a brain tumor.

Let her go home.

[truebrit71]

58. Yes. As soon as her innocent victims come back to life...otherwise she gets to rot...

...

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. Yes let her die at home with her family

She has paid her price.

Those girls were brainwashed by a very evil man. I think they have all served enough time.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

65. She giggled

throughout the trial.

She made light of a tragedy and mocked the families who had lost their loved ones to her own willful destruction. She was helping Manson being about "Helter skelter" the race war that would bring the end of the world. Manson and his followers were another depraved group of end of the world freaks. As for being brain washed. Probably. But she is no Manchurian Candidate. Some would say that Hitler brainwashed his followers. But a war crime is after all, a war crime.

I understand her life was fucked due to her decisions to kill people but I have far more compassion for the dead and their families. Nothing but tragedy all the way around. Atkins family have suffered too. I do really feel for them and Atkins but when it comes down to the bottom line, she was given life in prison - not life unless you get a terminal disease.

sorry.

[proud2BlibKansan]

71. She was young and stupid and brainwashed

I don't see what purpose it serves to keep her in prison.

[tabasco]

60. No. Her crimes deserve life in prison.

That means she dies behind bars.

Let some non-violent marijuana criminals out, but not Susan Atkins.

[Asgaya Dihi]

61. No

I'm all for forgiveness and second chances but some things go way past anything you can "reform" from. I can understand hurting someone in the heat of anger, passion, or need but I can't understand doing anything to someone who is begging for their life and I certainly can't understand feeling amused in recounting the event. Something is wrong with a person like that on a deep, deep level and no amount of time in therapy or anywhere else can erase what they have the potential to do.

Leave her where she is, provide humane medical treatment and let her do what good she can do if she actually did reform any from where she is. Others have done everything from write books to advising youths and speaking out against gangs from prison. If she is changed she's got ways to show it and make up for what she did from where she is.

As you mention in your post Sharon Tate begged for her life and for the life of her fully developed fetus. Susan Atkins showed her zero mercy.

Atkins also participated in the killing of Gary Hinman who also begged for his life. And she thought it was all funny, a great joke or something.

[aikoaiko]

66. She should die in prison.

eta: And this is an example of why I support the death penalty. After a few decades there will always be some hand wringer ready to make nice and let fuckin vicious murderers out.

[FredScuttle]

67. Hell no

Her sentence was just and fair and she should serve it out to its natural conclusion. A damn sight better deal than the one she gave Sharon Tate and her unborn son.

[old mark]

68. Absolutely not. Alll of them should stay in prison.

I have no doubt there are many more deaths they were responsible for that have never even been reported.

mark

[aikoaiko]

69. I encourage anti-death penalty folks to be against her release ....

...if you ever want to convince pro-death penalty crowd to believe you when you say murderers should be kept in prison for life as an alternative to the death penalty.

[johnnie]

70. I say let her out

Chances are she will receive more compassion in prison than out, just read this thread. Although from what I understand, she probably will never even make it out of the hospital.

[GaYellowDawg]

72. No.

Some actions should have lifelong consequences.