Feral Cats to be killed with leghold traps and hunters

[freeplessinseattle]

This is a very urgent situation that I just a moment ago received a notice about. Must be acted upon by tomorrow, please help save these cats from a cruel and unecessary death-public outcry does help, other feral cat homes have been spared in the past by speaking out. We have to be their voice, they are depending on us. Thank you!

(I'm not a current donor so can't post this in the Pets forum, but I figure GD is..pretty loosely structured, to say the least).

Dear Lisa:

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has proposed a cruel plan to kill all the feral cats on San Nicholas Island—that’s as many as 200—using leghold traps and hunters with dogs.

Your written feedback to the Fish and Wildlife Service is vitally needed by tomorrow, Tuesday, June 17.

Feral cats have lived on San Nicolas Island, located off the coast of southern California, for more than 50 years. The Fish and Wildlife Service claims that removing cats from the island is necessary to restore seabird populations. However, the FWS has no evidence that cats are threatening the populations of birds and other species on San Nicolas Island.

Worse, even if the Fish and Wildlife Service had any evidence that removing cats is necessary, the ill-advised plan does not consider the use of Trap-Neuter-Return to humanely reduce the population of cats on San Nicolas Island.

Take Action. With your help, we hope to avert the needless suffering and cruel death of the feral cats on San Nicolas Island. Submit your written comments to the Fish and Wildlife Service requesting that they cease and desist with their cruel plan. Tell them that cats are not threatening other species on the island. Tell them that even if they could prove it would be beneficial to reduce the population of cats, Trap-Neuter-Return is the humane and effective alternative to cruel, ineffective hunting and trapping.

Be sure to include your full name and a mailing address when submitting comments.


The deadline is Tuesday, June 17, 2008.

Sincerely,
Becky Robinson
President

(this link will take you to an action page with a form letter (that you can add to or write your own) that will take just a few seconds to send)

http://action.alleycat.org/c.mmL3KgN3LzH/b.4203535/k.9CAC/Feral_Cats_on_San_Nicolas_Island_Urgently_Need_Your_Help/siteapps/advocacy/ActionItem.aspx

[Hissyspit]

1. Done.

[Occulus]

144. Why hasn't anyone on this thread asked about introducing a natural predator for the cats? n/t

[Contrary1]

2. It's in the Pets Forum now. n/t

:)

[freeplessinseattle]

17. Thank you so much, and everyone who recommended!!

wow, I was so thrilled and touched to see this in Greatest-I knew DU was a good place to find passionate animal people, but you all have really renewed my faith in what a wonderful place this can be.

Thank you all, and I am really hoping and optimistic that we can help save these unfortunate cats, even on such short notice. Ally Cat Allies will have an update soon, I'm sure.

[City Lights]

3. Signed and recommended.

Thanks for posting this.

[dbackjon]

4. Done - in support of killing the nasty buggers

All feral cats should be killed - they are worse than Bush on the ecosystem.


Supporting feral cats = death sentence for native wildlife.

There is plenty of evidence that feral cats destroy wildlife - they kill HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of birds yearly.

CATCH-RELEASE-NEUTER is a failure. It doesn't work.


Only way to restore ecosystems is to EXTERMINATE non-native animals, like cats and rats.

[redwitch]

11. Am I allowed to tell someone to fuck off? If so, fuck off.

If not, :shrug:

[The Doctor.]

15. Unfortunately, he's right.

I love cats, not as much as I love dogs, but I really think they're just awesome.

If you're just sitting on your comfy chair or couch, and the Cat decides it's time for a nap by curling up on your lap... you're both taking a nap.
Cats have no prefrontal cortex to speak of. To call them whimsical isn't enough. They are brilliant to watch as they fixate from one pursuit to the next.
Cats have served humanity well by culling the vermin that spread famine and disease, and they've proven themselves to be empathic creatures that will sometimes deign to show kindess to us, their human servitors.

But he's right. Even domestic cats have been responsible for a major decline in bird populations... especially the domestic cats.

Feral cats deserve to live as much as anything else on earth, but they, like humanity, are often out of harmony with their environment. Really... cats just aren't fair to their resource base.

Feral cats really are a problem. If you have a better solution, then by all means, submit it.

[Hissyspit]

65. That's a myth.

[The Doctor.]

67. What... that cats are wonderful?

Or would you care to describe...?

[Hissyspit]

70. No, that feral cats have a great impact.

Sorry, I'm really tired.

[MiniMe]

92. I admit to watching Crocodile Hunter in the past

Australia has a huge population of feral cats, and he did several shows on how feral cats and feral pigs have done a lot of harm to the local natural wildlife. Usually, when you have feral animals that have been introduced there are usually no natural preditors to keep the populations in check and the population explodes out of control. Even snake species that are not native to an environment cause a lot of problems.

Having admitted to watching Irwin, I will add that even though they can cause a lot of damage, I am in no way of trapping them by using leg traps as a way of catching them, I think it is a cruel way of trapping. It does, of course, figure with the current adminisration's way of doing things. There are many more humane ways to trap animals who need to be trapped without resorting to such means.

[Tesha]

99. Tell that to the dead birds.

Feral cats should be eliminated. Is a leghold
trap the right answer? No. But catch and euthanize
is.

Many songbirds and other birds are fare more
endangered than felis catus *EVER* will be
and cats are one factor in the decline of
these species.

Tesha

[dbackjon]

125. It is a myth that they don't

Unless you don't think killing hundreds of millions of birds is of no concern

[Mojorabbit]

126. I don't think it is a myth

I have read multiple reports on the damage they do to songbird populations. England has done a lot of studies on both domestic and feral cat damage. That being said my last two cats were feral and I loved them dearly.

[pleah]

139. Tell that to the nest of bluebirds in my yard that were eaten by a cat on the loose.

[dbackjon]

18. I will tell you just to get a grip on reality

Feral cats live a nasty, horrible life, in the mean time wreck eco-systems. Extermination is the only option.

[redwitch]

23. no, it isn't.

Many humans on the planet live a nasty, horrible life and in the mean time wreck ecosystems. Is extermination the only option for them too?

[dbackjon]

27. Please do not equate cats with humans

They are not the same.


And from islands like this, extermination from the island is the only option.

[redwitch]

31. I was merely pointing out the barbarism of your position.

nt

[Donald Ian Rankin]

40. No, you were failing to do so.

As pointed out, your argument would only make sense if killing cats and killing humans were equivalent.

Killing humans is barbaric.
Killing cats is not barbaric.

I'm strongly on the seabirds' side in this one, I'm afraid.

[redwitch]

41. I am not anti seabirds.

And I believe that what the government agency is planning to do is barbaric.

[anigbrowl]

49. I imagine seabirds think the feral cats are barbaric too

I love cats. I am a total cat person. I would kick a dog to make a cat feel good. But I also recognise that cats are highly efficient predators and in an environment like this can wreck the local wildlife. Leg traps suck. But it's probably faster than wandering around trying to shoot them. Catch-neuter-release? OK. You pony up the half a million dollars and find some place that is amenable to having 200 feral cats dumped into its ecosystem.

[Gemini Cat]

72. Whatever.

Cats aren't the same as humans.
They are generally better.

[freeplessinseattle]

84. Virtual fist jab!:) n/t

[shireen]

38. good idea! exterminate the evil creatures that wreck the eco-system!

let's start with human beings!

Feral cats live a nasty, horrible life, in the mean time wreck eco-systems. Extermination is the only option.

what a dumb statement. feral cats are cats that were dumped by people. it's not their fault that they stalk and kill wild birds. I'm a bird-watcher and am very concerned about the decline in neotropical migrants. but i also love cats -- those dear little kitties were abandoned by us, they're simply fending for themselves and deserve to live.

The only way to preserve our ecosystem is to attack the root of the problem -- we, the people who created the problem. We need to take responsibility for our domesticated animals, not neglect and discard them. For feral cats, spay-neuter-release programs are the most effective and humane way to deal with the problem. The kind people who feed them are my heroes. Alley Cat Allies is a wonderful organization.

those kitties are just being kitties. It's us humans who have failed them.

[EstimatedProphet]

119. That's right. We dumped them.

Doesn't that make this our responsibility to fix? No one is blaming the cats. There is no one claiming that the cats are "bad animals", or corrupt, or evil. They're doing what they do, like you said - which is why they need to be removed.

[Rhiannon12866]

138. I agree with you, my friend.

I rescued my cat from the outdoors, took me awhile, since she was so scared. I fed her outside for five months, several times a day. But I brought her inside in early 2002, and she was the best cat, after dental surgery, which must have been causing a lot of her problems. She was practically a lap cat, after that. I have friends who rescue ferals, and I truly admire them, the toughest form of animal rescue that there is, IMO...:shrug:

[salinen]

12. listen to dbackjon

if you value the ecosystem, you'll back this program.
Feral cats are extremely destructive.

[silverojo]

14. Boy, are you uninformed!

Yes, feral animals are a threat to native wildlife. But catch/neuter/release is hardly a failure. It's been successful in many areas, which is why the concept has grown in popularity.

BTW, there are many other species that kill birds, not just cats.

So, in other words, you're full of it.

[dbackjon]

21. Catch/release are a failure to native wildlife`

You will not be able to provide an example of a successful (from a wildlife perspective). NOT ONE.

Anyone that supports C/N/R is full of it.

[freeplessinseattle]

44. eradication vs. population control

How fair is it to just get rid of one particular species so that another species can thrive? How effing "elitist" is that? that is so messed up and warped, and messing with nature like that will throw of a balance, making things worse for the resulting increasing bird population (that don't have the surgical population control option). cats won't eradicate the bird population, and if they did they would die, too, but they have been there for 50 years, and both species keep reproducing.

[MiniMe]

98. Getting rid of the cat population on an island would not eradicate the species

Not getting rid of the cat population could indeed eradicate the bird species. While I'm sure that the cats have been there for many years, they are not native to the island, they were introduced. Probably from a boat. The reason that it is a problem is because they have been breeding uncontrolled, and there are no natural predators on the island. So the cats are throwing the ecosytem out of kilter.

When there are 1 or 2 cats there, or 10 or 20, they will not affect the ecosystem. However, when the cat population on the island explodes out of control, it becomes a problem. The cats are reproducing with no natural predators or selection, and the reason that they are so successful is because there was an abundance of food in the form of birds and chicks. Once you take enough birds and chicks out of the population, the food supply starts dwindling. That will leave the cats to begin to starve and be vulnerable to disease.

[freeplessinseattle]

103. did you read the environmental assessment?

obviously not.

furthermore, I mean eradication of the cats in that area, not even W would think that eliminating a species population in one area would eradicate the entire species.

[dbackjon]

128. Yes, cats do eradicate bird populations

Island ecosystems are very fragile. Introduced predators like cats and rodents and pigs reek havoc, and must be completely removed.

[GaYellowDawg]

133. Damn, just damn.

"messing with nature like that"

Nature has already been "messed with" here. The cats are not native. They are an invasive species, and need to be eradicated to put the ecosystem back into balance. Take the "poor ittle kitties" glasses off.

[Tesha]

100. There are, of course, two serious problems with C/N/R

1. If done *PERFECTLY*, it takes ten to twenty
years to actually eliminate the cat population.

2. If not done perfectly, it does *NOTHING AT
ALL* except waste tones of money and effort.

Humane elimination of the cats is far better for
all parties, but especially for the birds.

Tesha

[freeplessinseattle]

105. "nothing at all"

really now? then why bother getting domestic cats fixed?

it doesn't take a math genuis to figure realize that 198 cats unable to reproduce and two able to vs. 198 able to reproduce is a huge difference in numbers. and less population means less birds dying-and no population means the birds other predators such as rodents will flourish and feast and then what are you gonna do?

[Tesha]

109. Because domestic cats don't live on an island unsupervised.

They live in your house. And, from time to time,
my house.

But on that island, all that needs to happen is for
the C/N/R program to miss one male and one female and
the whole cycle repeats itself.

By the way, run your numbers -- see how long it takes
the feline population to recover from just that one
breeding pair. Given sufficient food, I think you'll
find that it's a much shorter time period than you
seem to be assuming.

Tesha

[Blue Diadem]

25. Other birds kill birds..

Had to take my window feeders down because I got tired of seeing birds snatched up by hawks.

[awoke_in_2003]

32. "I got tired of seeing birds snatched up by hawks"

Damn, now I need to get a bird feeder. I love watching birds of prey.

[Patchuli]

56. That's almost as bad as the cat killers in this thread

When people get pleasure out of killing or watching killing, we are ALL in trouble.

[awoke_in_2003]

59. It is not that I get pleasure out of killing

it is the power and precision of the hawk. They are the most agile flying machines out there. I am also amazed at the power of the great white. It is nature, after all, and hawks have to eat, too. And around here if it wasn't for the hawks, we would be swimming in grackles. Hawks keep the balance.

[flvegan]

63. So then yes, it's pleasure from the killing.

Brilliant.

[awoke_in_2003]

64. Killing is a premeditated event

survival is not.

[flvegan]

66. That by your posts

you'd fuel by getting a feeder or two such that you could delight in a bird of prey taking another bird? Sounds like baiting for pleasure.

Tell me how I've got this wrong, please.

[theboss]

114. So...hawks are evil?

I assume you find the poetry of Ted Hughe particularly disgusting.

There is a certain beauty inherent in nature red in tooth and claw, is there not?

[GaYellowDawg]

134. In the vegan world, yes.

Didn't you know that all animals should just give up that mean old carnivore instinct and become lettuce eaters? Even if they're not evolved for it? You have to remember, these are the same people who feed their dogs and cats non-meat dog and cat food. :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[Tesha]

102. our thought on this is that we feed animals up and down the food chain.

We feed the small birds, and some of those go on, in
their turn, to feed the red-tailed hawks (and probably
the turkey buzzards).

We feed the chipmunks, and some of those go on to feed
the red-tailed hawks too.

We feed our goldfish, and a rather alarming number of
those go to feed the Great Blue Heron who stops by
our garden/fishpond.

We don't take pleasure from the smaller animals
feeding the larger, but it's pretty clear from watching
the growing count of small animals over the almost a
decade that we've occupied our little hilltop that
their families are prospering, even if a few indi-
viduals die. And so are the families of the top-
level predators. It's nature's way. And yes, we
take pleasure in knowing that we're helping to
support this whole natural system.

Tesha

[MiniMe]

97. You could be correct in many areas, but not on an island ecosystem

If you released them back to the island, you still have the problem of bird populations being eradicated. And if you release them back, the problem will exist until the cats die naturally. The bird population can be extinct before the cats are gone, then they would face an even worse death by starvation. I am in favor of humanely catching the cats, but not returning them to the island. The reason that birds evolved to nest there in the first place was because it was a safer place to bring up their chicks.

[bean fidhleir]

16. Your claims are "selective"

http://www.theanimalspirit.com/Myths.html:

Myth: Feral cats are responsible for bird and wildlife decline.

Fact: While we acknowledge that outdoor cats do occasionally kill birds and other wildlife, the main cause of decline is habitat loss, which is caused by humans, not cats. National Geographic News reports that the declining bird populations reflect growing threats to many bird species resulting from habitat loss and fragmentation caused by development and other human activities.7 Moreover, conservation groups and government biologists estimate that communications towers (cell phone, television) kill from 4 to 50 million birds a year -- and at least 50 species are threatened or endangered. The construction of new towers creates a potentially significant impact on migratory birds.8 Furthermore, two French researchers Moller & Eritzoe examined birds killed by cats vs. those that met accidental deaths by crashing into windows. They examined the birds for various factors, the most significant of which was the health of the bird. They found that while windows were non-discriminating and killed healthy and sickly birds equally, the birds cats killed were significantly sicklier than those who crashed into windows.9

A study in 2005 predicts that reducing cat populations would actually cause more harm to birds due to a resulting increase in rat populations.10

A Columbia University study found that "reducing cats'effect on the ecosystem may actually have a negative impact upon some native species due to the possibility of 'mesopredator release effect'. The study also recommended that we confront the cat population problem with a combination of methods: "enlist the "trap-neuter-return" style of feral management and combine it with incentives for owners to sterilize their pet cats."11

Wildlife biologist Roger Tabor, who is considered by his peers to be one of the world’s leading experts on cats and has studied feral cats for over 30 years, is quoted as saying, "The clear leading animal that’s really putting wildlife at risk is the human population. We just don’t like to acknowledge that it is our fault. It’s not a case of the cat being the worst offender. It isn’t even remotely the worst offender. It’s us."12

<7> "Quarter of U.S. Birds in Decline, Says Audubon," National Geographic News, November 5, 2002
<8> "Towering Troubles: Bird Collisions With Communications Towers." Journey North, 2002
<9> No More Homeless Pets Forum, September 8-12, 2003, Guest: Nathan Winograd, Topic: Ferals, ferals everywhere, and not sure what to do?. Available at http://www.bestfriends.org/nmhp/forumarchive/qa908to912nw2.html#five. Accessed October 23, 2003.
<10> Fan M, et al, Bull Math Biol, 2005
<11> "Introduced Species Summary Project: Domestic Cat" Danielle LaBruna, Columbia University, January 29, 2001. Available at http://www.columbia.edu/itc/cerc/danoff-burg/invasion_bio/inv_spp_summ/Felis_catus.html. Accessed November 23, 2003.
<12> "Living in the Gray Zone," Estelle Munro. October 2003. Available at http://www.bestfriends.org/features/ferals2_101203/grayzone.htm. Accessed November 5, 2003.

[dbackjon]

22. That website is full of shit

Cats kill tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of birds in the US each year.

Cats are not solely to blame, but they are in the top 5 reasons.

[Enthusiast]

90. While this might have relevance

While this might have relevance on the coast, or inland area, it has none on an island habitat. These birds are descended from island breeders, it is their habitat, they can't choose an alternate home.

Do I hate cats? Yes, that is why one sleeps with me every single night.

[Patchuli]

20. That's horrible

It must be sad to think like that...

[dbackjon]

24. What's horrible is not to wake up to reality

As to the destruction that outdoor cats (both feral and domestic) do to native wildlife.

[Patchuli]

51. Whatever your point is, although I think it's

exaggerated, it would NEVER justify cruelty. You are a sad human if you think that trapping and hunting cats is acceptable.

[stuntcat]

53. it's usually humans

WE are the reason species are all invading each other's worlds. Further barbarism is a even bigger shame on us. Even very wild cats are trappable if any effort is made.

If you need to fight then go ahead but I'm here to point out that humans are behind the disasters on this planet, blaming any of the animals just seems, well pathetic.

[Chovexani]

85. Humans are the most barbaric species on this planet.

Probably the most barbaric that ever lived on it. No arguments here.

I'm not sure why humans are so afraid to confront that fact. Admitting you have a problem is the first step towards recovery, after all.

[GaYellowDawg]

137. Oh, what a bunch of bullshit.

There's not a single species that doesn't attempt to prosper at the cost of other species. Not. One. Deer will eat plants until there aren't any more, and only the resultant deer population crash allows the ecosystem to recover. Goats and pigs wreak absolute havoc on a landscape. Plenty of plant species produce herbicides to kill other plant species so that they can prosper. Fungi produce all kinds of bactericides so that they can dominate their local environment. Every single day, predators tear into their prey while it's still living.

I wish more people would pick up a biology book or take a course and get an education instead of running around with these stupid bullshit ideas about how humans are the worst species on the planet. What are our crimes? War? Chimpanzees carry out war between prides and practice cannibalism while they're at it. Giant Japanese hornets will slaughter an entire beehive for its honey. Deciduous tree species will move in and eradicate brush species. We call it secondary succession, but it's one species getting rid of others. Cruelty for pleasure? Ever seen an orca toss seals around for the fun of it? Or seen cats wound prey and bat it around for the sheer fun of it? Rape? If you've ever seen ducks mate, you've seen male ducks pin female unwilling ducks down and rape them. Overpopulation? Any species that gets the opportunity to mass reproduce will.

The fact that we carry our "barbarism" more successfully doesn't mean that every other species hasn't tried to do the same thing, and wouldn't if given the opportunity.

[Chovexani]

145. The fact that we're the most barbaric doesn't mean other species aren't, or wouldn't be.

I'm well aware of the examples you cite, because, you know, I do have an education in biology. That does not absolve us of our crimes against nature and each other (and they are many--the A bomb, the Holocaust, the Inquisition, pick something?). Those pesky opposable thumbs and higher reasoning skills we've got lend themselves to a lot more mischief. I think we agree more than you think we do.

The problem is, "anyone else would do it" is not even a defense in my mom's house or on Judge Judy, bro. Come on, now. We're not absolved of responsibility for shitty behavior just because the person down the street would do the exact same thing if given the opportunity.

Now we get into that sticky morass of biological nature vs. morality, and the real fun starts.

[GaYellowDawg]

154. It's not a fact. It's an opinion. And frankly, it's a poor one.

If you've got an education in biology, it's gone largely wasted. I am saying that we are like every other organism on the planet. We are most concerned with our own survival. We are hard-wired and evolved for that. I was not attempting a defense of humanity. I was saying that we are no different from other species in our drive to prosper at the expense of all others. We are not unique enough in that regard to be singled out as "most barbaric." That's why your assertion is bullshit.

In fact, when you think about it, we're the only species that attempts to save other species that don't directly benefit us. I would say that makes us the least barbaric species on the planet.

[Scout]

160. humans are supposed to KNOW BETTER

non-human animals are not supposed to know any better

[aquart]

77. Uh, native wildlife is accustomed to predation.

That's why they breed the way they do. They're food. Tasty, delicious, food.

The decline in native wildlife, especially birds, is more closely linked to global warming screwing up nesting and feeding habitats than abandoned cats.

Are you saying there are no mice and rats on this island? Are you saying that no birds sing because their bloody feathers are covering the faces of grinning cats?

Or are you saying that spay and release neutering requires too much effort and it's more fun to shoot and maim?

[dbackjon]

129. You are vastly misinformed

The birds evolved in a place with no predators. That is why they choose these islands to breed in the first place.

There were no native rodents. or cats.

OPEN YOUR EYES. IN THIS CASE, it is the CATS that are the problem, not global warming, or any or cause.

Your fluffy little pets kill hundreds of millions of birds EVERY YEAR. Any cat outdoors, no matter how well fed, is a killing machine.

[alarimer]

33. I agree with you.

They need to be eliminated, especially in sensitive habitats. Like any exotic, they are extremely destructive to local wildlife.

[LeftyMom]

37. So you're in favor of breaking the law?

§3003.1. Notwithstanding Sections 1001, 1002, 4002,
4004, 4007, 4008, 4009.5, 4030, 4034, 4042, 4152, 4180,
or 4181:
(a) It is unlawful for any person to trap for the purposes
of recreation or commerce in fur any fur-bearing mammal
or nongame mammal with any body-gripping trap. A bodygripping
trap is one that grips the mammal’s body or body
part, including, but not limited to, steel-jawed leghold
traps, padded-jaw leghold traps, conibear traps, and
snares. Cage and box traps, nets, suitcase-type live
beaver traps, and common rat and mouse traps shall not
be considered body-gripping traps.
(b) It is unlawful for any person to buy, sell, barter, or
otherwise exchange for profit, or to offer to buy, sell, barter,
or otherwise exchange for profit, the raw fur, as defined by
Section 4005, of any fur-bearing mammal or nongame
mammal that was trapped in this state, with a bodygripping
trap as described in subdivision (a).
(c) It is unlawful for any person, including an employee
of the federal, state, county, or municipal government, to
use or authorize the use of any steel-jawed leghold trap,
padded or otherwise, to capture any game mammal, furbearing
mammal, nongame mammal, protected mammal,
or any dog or cat. The prohibition in this subdivision does
not apply to federal, state, county, or municipal
government employees or their duly authorized agents in
the extraordinary case where the otherwise prohibited
padded-jaw leghold trap is the only method available to
protect human health or safety.
(d) For purposes of this section, fur-bearing mammals,
game mammals, nongame mammals, and protected
mammals are those mammals so defined by statute on
January 1, 1997.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/pdffiles/fg1389f.pdf

[freeplessinseattle]

47. Show me the evidence

population control is better than eradication for so many reasons. one you may care about:

"Studies have also shown that cases where cats were eradicated mice and rat populations exploded, and they began to prey on ground-nesting birds. On Amsterdam Island, biologists eradicated the feral cats to protect seabirds; however, this caused an increase in black rat and house mice populations, and they preyed on the seabirds. Same occurred in New Zealand, when feral cats were exterminated to preserve native bird populations; only, there was an increase in the rat population, which posed deadly to the birds."

[dbackjon]

158. One has to remove BOTH from the island

Rat-extermination programs have been very successful where fully utilized.

[flvegan]

61. Non-native...like people, yes?

You know shit about what you profess to speak about.

[bitchkitty]

79. Damn, if it's inconvenient, kill it!

Trap Neuter Release has the same result as killing them, ultimately. It reduces their population. Where do you get your "hundreds of millions" figure?

And not to put too fine a point on it, but you're a dick.

[Chovexani]

86. Your subject line

Describes pretty much everyone living in the outer reaches of the Phoenix metro area.

Because snakes and coyotes and scorpions have no business being anywhere near their ridiculous McMansions or the designer dogs they bought from puppy mills and irresponsibly let out at night when their natural predators roam. Even though it's the godsforsaken desert.

This is also an area with a metric fuckton of golf courses and a water crisis. Can you tell I can't wait to leave?

[bitchkitty]

155. I feel for you.

I live in Portland, and there are always reports of cats disappearing - coyotes are the culprit. There are a ton of Nutria around here too.

But there's plenty of water here - you should move!

[meow2u3]

157. Trap-neuter-release reduces the cat population by attrition

It prevents new generations of feral kittens, who cannot be adopted because they either fear or are hostile to humans, from being born. It's not the same as actively killing intact animals. And steel jawed traps are nothing short of torture.

[hamsterjill]

161. TNR is documented as successful

There are numerous studies that prove that a well managed TNR colony is much more successful at reducing the population numbers than what catch and kill is.

And how brutal to use jaw traps!!! It's horrible and those people should be ashamed of themselves. There are better options. Doing it this way stems from either stupidity or laziness.

Feral cats do NOT necessarily lead miserable lives. That, too, is a myth that naysayers continue to spread.

[XemaSab]

80. .

:thumbsup:

[and-justice-for-all]

82. I could say the same about people...nt

[THX1138]

127. "All feral cats should be killed - they are worse than Bush on the ecosystem"

Worse than humans? How much of the ecosystem have we destroyed?

[Donnachaidh]

132. So can we do the same to humans who devastate large areas?

I can think of more than 100 contractors in my area alone that have devastated the local wildlife - leaving millions of birds and turtle habitats cleared to large tracts of muddy areas - in order to build McMansions for people who can barely afford them.

Can we call for the wholesale slaughter of THOSE PEOPLE as well? After all, they too are *nasty buggers* who do nothing for the ecosystem, with their mass-produced homes covering the land with sod that is regularly drenched in pesticides to further kill off the insect ecosystems.

Feral cats AREN'T the problem.

[Catherina]

148. I can't wait until a superior group of humans decides to be done with nasty little buggers like you

and other lazy, stupid, environment-destroying Americans who are "worse than Bush on the ecosystem".


Supporting Americans = death sentence for defenseless people around the world.

There is plenty of evidence that Americans destroy human life - they kill HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of people and wildlife yearly.

Trying to talk sense to them is a failure. It doesn't work.

[Catherina]

149. delete/dupe

[Heywood J]

153. "All feral cats should be killed - they are worse than Bush on the ecosystem."

So are CEOs. Bring on the dogs and leg-hold traps.

Only way to restore ecosystems is to EXTERMINATE non-native animals, like cats and rats.

Don't forget humans.

[TimeChaser]

5. How horrible!

We've got four formerly feral kitties (and a fifth -- a "last chance" rescue from a shelter) living in our house at the moment. We're fostering the kittens until we can find homes for them. We'd planned on doing the Trap-Neuter-Return, but cats arn't stupid, as soon as the weather turned cold they moved inside on their own. I'll send in a letter and get the rest of my family to do the same.

[Cleita]

6. You need to contact these people The Animal Legal Defense Fund

http://www.aldf.org/

They are lawyers who are animal rights activists. If anyone can file a legal action to do this, it's them and they are based in Northern California.

[freeplessinseattle]

30. Thank you! I do think they work closely,

if I recall correctly, but I do know the legal director of Alley Cat Allies was formerly the Managing Attorney of the Litigation Office of the ADLF. maybe that's how she got introduced to ALA, and I'm pretty sure they work together. If not now (and I don't know why they wouldn't, unless there were strog personality differences between individuals, or maybe the primaries tore them apart;)
they must have in the past.

I will definitely remember to contact them if I hear of other situations with any animals, very valuable info, thank you!

[RC]

7. Leg hold traps need to be outlawed. What a painful inhumane way to die.

[LeftyMom]

29. They ARE illegal in California.

Fish and Game code section 3003.1 (c) applies.

§3003.1. Notwithstanding Sections 1001, 1002, 4002,
4004, 4007, 4008, 4009.5, 4030, 4034, 4042, 4152, 4180,
or 4181:
(a) It is unlawful for any person to trap for the purposes
of recreation or commerce in fur any fur-bearing mammal
or nongame mammal with any body-gripping trap. A bodygripping
trap is one that grips the mammal’s body or body
part, including, but not limited to, steel-jawed leghold
traps, padded-jaw leghold traps, conibear traps, and
snares. Cage and box traps, nets, suitcase-type live
beaver traps, and common rat and mouse traps shall not
be considered body-gripping traps.
(b) It is unlawful for any person to buy, sell, barter, or
otherwise exchange for profit, or to offer to buy, sell, barter,
or otherwise exchange for profit, the raw fur, as defined by
Section 4005, of any fur-bearing mammal or nongame
mammal that was trapped in this state, with a bodygripping
trap as described in subdivision (a).
(c) It is unlawful for any person, including an employee
of the federal, state, county, or municipal government, to
use or authorize the use of any steel-jawed leghold trap,
padded or otherwise, to capture any game mammal, furbearing
mammal, nongame mammal, protected mammal,
or any dog or cat. The prohibition in this subdivision does
not apply to federal, state, county, or municipal
government employees or their duly authorized agents in
the extraordinary case where the otherwise prohibited
padded-jaw leghold trap is the only method available to
protect human health or safety.
(d) For purposes of this section, fur-bearing mammals,
game mammals, nongame mammals, and protected
mammals are those mammals so defined by statute on
January 1, 1997.

[flvegan]

35. Uh oh...morons seeking to break the law.

Good find!

[LeftyMom]

36. My Google-fu is stronger than their Google-fu.

:bow:

In case anybody needs a link to the law, here it is straight from DFG: http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/pdffiles/fg1389f.pdf

[DMCarter]

8. Done

I sent my letter...You know things like this are preventable by being a responsible pet owner. Most of these feral cats as well as stray dogs were at some point someone's pet or the result of someone's pet not being spayed or neutered.

[acmavm]

9. People are so damn unwilling to make allowances for animals, to show

them any respect. I hate how some people just think that its okay to kill an animal or animals just because their existence is inconvenient or a bother.

People are such shits anymore.

[dbackjon]

26. So it is ok for some abandoned pets to wipe out other animals??

THAT IS LACK OF RESPECT.

[freeplessinseattle]

45. the seabirds aren't at risk of being eradicated, the cats are eom

[MiniMe]

93. You are incorrect

On an island habitat like that, there are usually no natural predators to restore a balance and introduced species usually explode out of control and can really affect native species. You just have to look at Australia for examples. Feral cats, pigs, and rabbits have done a great deal of damage in Australia. On another island country, I think it is Guam, snakes that have come in on planes and boats have done a great deal of damage to local bird populations.

That does not mean that I support using leg traps to catch these animals. That is a cruel way to trap animals. There are many ways of trapping animals in a humane way. But I think that once they are humanely trapped, they should not be re-introduced to the island habitat. I don't claim to know what the answer is, but somehow the cats need to be removed from that habitat. Can feral cats be rehabilitated and re-homed? I don't know the answer to that either. I imagine that young kittens can be, not sure about the adult cats.

[freeplessinseattle]

96. eradication isn't the same as "having an impact"

while of course there is an "effect", there is a not so fine line between eradication and havinga n effect. are you going to remove all the rodents that prey on the birds too? if you want nothing to affect the seabirds that is what you will have to do.

You are correct though, leg traps and being shot at are abhorrent and if the bird people genuinely have compassion for living creatures they will at least compromise with humane traps and a painless death with euthanasia.

as far as rehoming: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3465349&mesg_id=3466117

[MiniMe]

107. We can agree on the 2nd paragraph

Look, I do dog rescue. I love them to death and have 2 former fosters living with me now. To treat animals humanely is inbred into me. There are already so many dogs and cats that can't be saved already, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to save them. My puppy came from an Amish puppy mill, if you haven't heard about them, do a google search. They are terrible places. He was removed from that situation at about 6 months old, I got him at 8 months old. I have had him for about a year now, and he still has issues, but they get better very slowly but surely. He is however a very loving dog with tons of personality, and he gets along with my older dog like a dream.

On the first part for birds of prey and rodents, I imagine that they are native to the island and are a natural part of the ecosystem. The birds of prey keep the rodent population under control and while they take some birds, I would argue (maybe argue isn't the right word) that it is part of the natural selection process.

Cats on the other hand, are not native to the island, they are introduced. If they are going to these lengths now, I would say that the population is now out of control. They may not be starving yet, but they will be as the birds start to dwindle. Not good for the cats either. But we do agree that whatever is to be done needs to be done humanely.

Here is an interesting paper about feral cats in Australia: http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/invasive/publications/cat/pubs/cat

[acmavm]

88. No slick. Let's do like we do with everything else, alive or not, that's some

see to be a problem.]

LET'S KILL 'EM!

:sarcasm:

[Triana]

10. DONE. K & R. n/t

[bdamomma]

13. done

[Patchuli]

19. Kicked, Rec'ed, Signed and Sento on to

more cat people! This is unbelievable...!

[theboss]

28. Why not trap and remove?

Feral cats are a problem in any environment, but there is probably a better way to deal with this.

I will say this: instead of spending a lot of energy on this, work with local agencies to reduce the number of unwanted cats in your neighborhoods. I've worked with the local Humane Society to trap and spade/neuter feral cats in a few neighborhoods near me, because they can quickly overwhelm you with kittens if you don't.

[freeplessinseattle]

34. because they won't survive in an unfamiliar environment

for one thing, no matter how crappy their current home is, and how much better a new place, ferals will try to rehome, and often don't survive the journey (or find their way back). when relocating ferals as barn cats, etc., they must be kept contained inside the barn, garage (or a cage for kittens, since they can slip through very small spaces) for 2-4 weeks before they adjust and "bond" with their new home.

I currently have a situation with kittens that are too old to be tameable, and while I want to find them better living conditions I am afraid of the same thing happening, some people just don't take the transition period seriously until it's too late. I was heartbroken when two formerly semi-feral brothers that I tamed down and adopted out were let out after just a few days and never seen again (two of their siblings are safe inside my apartment for the rest of their lives though:).

[Donald Ian Rankin]

39. I'm all in favour of exterminating feral cat populations to preserve seabirds, I'm afraid.

If it can be done more humanely than this, that would be good, but if not then so be it.

Cats are right up there with rats and goats as destroyers of ecosystems; they're a problem than needs to be solved and I think extermination is probably the best solution.

[redwitch]

43. OMG! Lets kill all the goats too!

.

[Pavulon]

52. On galapagos they are destroyed

as with feral cats. Do not know this eco system but killing invasive species is good stewardship. Not advocating without knowing the place.

I shoot feral pigs on the coast of SC. They kill turtle nests and destroy ecosystems.

[XemaSab]

83. San Nicolas Island

is one of the Channel Islands.

It's the island in the book "Island of the Blue Dolphins."

There's basically no human population out there, so it's not like these are pets that got lost.

In order to neuter them, they would have to be taken to the mainland anyway.

I'm in favor of getting rid of the cats. :shrug:

[anigbrowl]

55. The overman must have slack

[freeplessinseattle]

46. why extermination rather than population control?

that seems like being cruel just for kicks.

[flvegan]

48. Destroyers of ecosystems, then?

Where do you stand on the human issue?

Something to think about.

[stuntcat]

58. fucking right on

That's what I want to say. The reason some animals are invading other's homes is because of US. The other animals are not the ones causing the mass-extinction, it's clearly the humans. I think it's pathetic for any of us be calling for mass killings of animals when the only animals that need to be mass-killed are the monkeys who think they look like GOD .. oh I'm too mad, I just can't believe how people fool themselves.. "oh yeah, lets send some squads of guys with guns out to protect this delicate ecosystem we've fucked up beyond recognition.."

[flvegan]

60. I get

some wood on the ball from time to time, and you're right.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

91. I care more about killing humans than I do about killing cats.

I'm weird that way.

[Cleita]

57. In my county, which is also coastal, we have a catch and release program.

It works very well in keeping the feral cat population down. Feral cats are caught, neutered and then released. Kittens are socialized and adopted out and of course are neutered. Many of them get jobs as barn cats helping to keep the rodent population down. Volunteers put food out at stations for the feral cats so that they don't starve and so that they can be monitored if they need veterinary care. I seldom run across a feral cat. It really works and is very humane. I wish my county had the same concern for our human homeless.

[SallyMander]

147. I'm with ya

Seabirds (mostly ground-nesting!) have no chance against cats. Cats are not reliant on this ecosystem, not part of it, and sure as hell not endangered. If someone wants to pony up to relocate them, fine then, but they gotta go.

[blondie58]

42. done- and forwarded to all of my fellow cat lovers

but I must say that I am surprised by some of the comments here. If people would alter their cats, we wouldn't have this problem. One mama cat and her offspring will produce 500,000 more cats in a seven year period. Thank you for posting this. I find it as horrific as the fishermen who fish with little puppies or kittens for bait.

And I just realized- it is kitten season. We'll have moms with young kids. This is just wrong.

[stuntcat]

50. I just got an email about this too!

Thank you for posting it. I edited my letter to point out that humans moving the cats around and not getting them neutered is the problem, not the animals' faults at all. Looks like some people posting here can't see that it's actually HUMANS starting the problem for other species, not the critters. And TNR can too work, even very wild cats are trappable. It's fycking idiotic to blame any animals besides humans for the shit that's happening to this world x(

[CRF450]

62. You know how difficult it is to neuter an animal that multiplies like rabbits?

For population control? Very difficult! Another vote for extermination. I'm sorry, I love cats too, but farrel cats are a huge problem that many here dont seem to understanding.

[freeplessinseattle]

73. the docs do the surgery, not you:)

seriously, your point is lost on me. why is it harder to trap with humane traps than leghold traps and traipsing around with dogs? sure the cat lovers have to go back to release the cats, but if they don't mind what are you bitching about? the surgery being difficult? it's a willing and able vet that does the surgery, and knows what they are doing so no worries about "difficulty" with controlling breeding.

it's like saying why bother spaying/neutering domestic pets, since it only makes a dent in the overall population control. stupid.

[freeplessinseattle]

142. Thank you so much, an ally is invaluable to the animals

they try their hardest to survive and take care of themselves, it breaks my heart, but they need us to be their voice sometimes. all these animals are trying to do is survive, ferchrissakes. they should be admired and respected for their will and fortitude instead of villified.

humans really disgust me all too often. an out of control species with too much power and dominion over nature. illusions of granduer. gag.

[KoKo]

54. Done... Thanks for the Alert...n/t

[Swamp Rat]

68. Kitties, rats, and mice UNITE! to fight the human menace!!!

[Carnea]

69. Done and Done one of my companies is named after my cat so I love using that

to donate to such causes. (Plus it has to make heads shake when she orders petmeds online for herself with her own credit card)

Another of my 3 cats is a rescue feral cat I have had for 3 years still skittish she loves having her belly rubbed and being a cat when no one is looking.

PM me if there is anything more I can do to help.

[freeplessinseattle]

74. aw, that's the kind of stuff I like to hear

rescue pets are especially special, and it is so rewarding to see them blossom and their personalities come out. the power of trust and caring touch can just transform these frightened, stressed-out little angels. my formerly feral girl kitty is still skittish, too, and isn't into being held or a lap cat yet, but is slowly warming up to the idea. It makes my heart sing whenever she makes another step in trusting me, and showing me. Every kitty has a soul and personality of his or her own, and being feral doesn't mean they're less than.

[bean fidhleir]

146. My one feral/semi-feral (I never did learn which) lived 19 years, and spent every day of her

last year curled up on my desk at my elbow, purring contentedly. She finally died as quietly and peacefully as she'd lived.

[provis99]

71. why should I care if some noisy, obnoxious seabirds are wiped out by cats?

I like cats better than seabirds. All seabirds do is eat garbage, spead disease, and shit all over my car. I say let the cats kill off these useless and destructive birds. Its simply survival of the fittest as nature intended.

[blindpig]

101. We have a weiner

for most environmentally ignorant post. The competition was fierce.

[readmoreoften]

75. Done.

Stray cat owner.

[ClayZ]

76. K and R

[Unsane]

78. Thanks for the info. Im hunting some tomorrow.

[and-justice-for-all]

81. Kick! Done nt

[Chovexani]

87. Can't people ever find a fucking better solution to problems than killing?

Opposable thumbs and this is the best shit homo sapiens can come up with. Nearly 3 am and I need a drink.

Wrote a letter and am passing the link around to everyone I know.

[Jack_DeLeon]

89. I like cats...

My family has several, but if these cats are causing a problem then I'd have no problem with them being removed one way or another.

[dems_rightnow]

94. "No evidence that cats threaten seabirds"

Yeah......

[Echo In Light]

95. K&R

[tbyg52]

104. Done.

I don't know the details about how much impact these cats actually have, nor about the success or lack thereof of trap/spay/release, but there is no excuse for using leghold traps for any purpose.

[freeplessinseattle]

106. thank you! in all these anti-cat posts only one person

expressed concern about the cruel, painful way of capturing the cats, which speaks volumes about the true feelings of those supposedly concerned about the birds.

[Tesha]

110. I certainly hope you're counting me as one who expressed concern

because, up above, I said leg-hold traps were the
wrong answer. And I saw another person saying the
same thing just now.

Tesha

[freeplessinseattle]

111. ah, crap, got you confused with someone else

so that makes two with some compassion (if not social graces;)

the one just posted was posted after I noted the lack of concern, so hard to say if it was their own idea.

[tbyg52]

113. Oh, it was my own idea -

I'm noted (in my own mind, at least) for going off half-cocked due to not scrolling down first.... ;)

[Echo In Light]

115. I gave the K&R because I agreed with you

[freeplessinseattle]

131. Thank you, and sorry for being untrusting

I'm just feeling jaded after reading all the vicious posts that don't even mention the cruel nature of the method of killing, it's like a lynch mob attitude, creeping me out!

It is definitely refreshing and reassuring to see people that care about the welfare of both species.

[Magrittes Pipe]

108. Environmentalism is important... unless it's about cute kittehs!

:eyes:

This is ludicrous. A non-native predatory species is wreaking havoc on the native ecosystem of the island, and the vast majority of posts on this thread SUPPORT this wanton destruction of the ecosystem.

Now, you may have a point in saying that there are better ways to do this than with leg traps (I find that solution to be pretty barbaric myself); but if you don't want to get the cats OFF the island, by some means, don't expect me (or anyone sensible) to take you seriously when it comes to environmental issues.

"Oh, Hedges, you're so mean to kittehs, they're not hurting anything!" Bullshit. They're ruining the natural balance on the island. You just think the goddamn "fur-babies" are more important than the native species. And that makes you stupid.

[Carnea]

116. And thats the problem with environmentalism.

They want environments to be trapped in Amber never changing. Well guess what nature does as nature does. We spend millions of dollars destroying non-native trees that are actually adapted to the environment and thrive to protect other plants that keel over if you look at them funny. The seabirds in question will adapt or they will die thats the natural way. Guess what earth itself is just a big blue island we are all native and we are all animals.

[EstimatedProphet]

118. Oh bullshit

Don't you get the fact that WE are the ones that did the ecosystem the damage in this case? this isn't about trying to keep everything preserved - it's already not preserved. If this were an oil spill would you feel the same way - "let the birds adapt or die!"

[Carnea]

121. You do realise that many of the seabirds are non-native as well right?

Potatoes are non native outside of Peruperhaps we can irradiacte them from Poland Russia Ireand and Idaho... We also need to go into peoples gardens and get rid of those non-native tomatoes.

But I digress the biggest threat to seabird colinies are rats.... gee I wonder all natural way we could help reduce the rat population.... hmmm

Oh and "Non-native birds such as European starlings and house sparrows harm California native birds populations of cavity-nesting birds such as western bluebirds, acorn woodpeckers, red-breasted sapsuckers, white-headed woodpeckers, Nuttall's woodpeckers, and ash-throated flycatchers. Feral pigeons serve as a reservoir for a variety of avian diseases and parasites, including avian pox. It is likely that abundant non-native birds that are adapted to urban environments enhance the risk of transmission of West Nile virus and other infectious diseases to humans."

http://www.pacificseabirdgroup.org/policy/Boxer.pdf

So it may turn out that the non-native cats are in many cases eating non-native birds.

[EstimatedProphet]

122. The rats got there on their own, in many cases

The non-native birds too. If we were the ones that relocated them to that island, I would be just as much in favor of getting rid of them too. If they got there on their own, then I have no problem with letting nature take its course. If we put them there, then we have a responsibility to mitigate the damage. If the cats are eating non-native birds, good for them. But if they are eating birds that have gotten their on their own, i.e. native, then they are by definition a nuisance.

And people growing potatoes and tomatoes in their gardens aren't a threat in this situation. When rogue feral potatoes wander around killing seabirds, then I'll be concerned.

[Sheets of Easter]

123. "rogue feral potatoes."

I smell a Troma production. :)

[bean fidhleir]

152. Rats eat eggs. Cats don't. Cats catch birds, but only those too slow to escape

which means not many of them. But cats are very successful rat-catchers because unlike birds few rats ever escape by flying.

I used to enjoy watching my two tabbies "try" to catch birds. As adolescents they took it all seriously, but by adulthood they knew it was a waste of energy. But they'd still go through the motions a few times for the look of the thing -especially with pigeons- before flopping down and watching them. Even the pigeons became aware that it was a joke, because they wouldn't bother rising more than a few feet into the air before landing again. As long as they stayed 10-15 feet away, they were safe and they knew it.

[EstimatedProphet]

156. Again, if we put the rats there, we should do something about them

If we didn't, we are interfering in natural selection. It's about responsibility for our actions. We put the cats there, so we should do something about it.

[dbackjon]

159. Um - the seabirds are NATIVE

Shows how LITTLE you actually know about the situation.

And I am all for wiping out Starlings and House Sparrows.

If that was all the cats were eating, no one would care. But that is NOT what they are eating.

[Tesha]

130. No no no! It was Thor Kittiedahl and the Kat Tiki...

that allowed those cats to migrate to this island!

(Surely there's a LOLCAT picture somewhere illustrating
this valliant cat explorer!)

Tesha

[GaYellowDawg]

141. BINGO!

What you're seeing is not environmentalists. It's cuddlyanimalists. If an animal isn't cute, they don't much care. I doubt any of these people would spring to the defense of hagfishes.

[Sheets of Easter]

112. I love cats, but ferals are pests.

Still, it's cruel to use leg traps upon any creature. If a catch-neuter-release plan doesn't work, then the cats should be euthanized in a humane manner.

[npincus]

117. done!

[EstimatedProphet]

120. I bet you protested Bonsai Kitten too, didn't you?

[mistertrickster]

124. Feral means wild. Wild populations sometimes need to be culled.

This is good management. The statement that cats don't affect birds is a patent falsehood. Study after study shows that cats are a number one predator of birds.

That's the problem with animal rights when they go out of control--you can't permit a predatory species to overpopulate unless you want to decimate all the other animals the cats prey on. Eventually, the cats will be forced to cannibalize each other and most will die of starvation.

The cruelest thing is to do nothing. Maybe leg-hold traps aren't the answer, but you can't do nothing if you want to save the ecology of the island and ultimately save the feral cats themselves.

[stuntcat]

135. fricking RE reiteration

It is a disrespect of the fucking earth for the one most invasive species EVER to displace almost every other one and then throw a mass killing over a whole country to try to control the mess WE'RE making on the world. There is another solution for those animals, it's about time we showed some fucking respect for the rest of the world and waste a little of our time and fucking money fixing the shit we did.

btw I haven't noticed ANYone here misspelling KITTEHS and going on about how cute and precious and soft the fuzzy fur babies are :eyes: I can't help getting the impression if it were any other animal that we could all respect then you people wouldn't be putting EACH OTHER down arguing about it.
I know you're gonna pretend I can't feel right about this because I have cat in my name and if you think this has anything to do with considering one species more important than others then that is your problem and maybe the reason you don't think the real matter here is your own animals' overpopulation.

[Rhiannon12866]

136. Done and passed on. Thank you. K&R.

;(

[kwolf68]

140. My question is this

Since when did ANYONE in the Bush administration give a shit about song birds?

Sounds to me like an excuse just to butcher cats.

I am a total cat person. I LOVE CATS. However, feral cats SHOULD BE REMOVED. They kill natural animals in the ecosystem, sometimes just for the hell of it. Domestic cats belong in one place: A human's home...they are bad news.

That said, why can't we deal with this issue in a more humane fashion? I don't get that part.

[blindpig]

143. Links on topic:

House Cats are not considered wildlife. However, since they can cause a tremendous amount of damage to bird species and other wildlife, they are worthy of mentioning here. Particularly, house cats can, when allowed to roam freely outdoors, become little more than an invasive species with lobbyists who protect their environmentally damaging behavior.

http://icwdm.org/wildlife/housecat.asp

http://www.wildlife.org/policy/TWS_testimony_feral_cats.pdf

http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/speaker3.html

[Catherina]

150. Done. Thank you n/t

[bonito]

151. Done n/t