The death of the US as a nation

[nadinbrzezinski]

Last weekend truly crystalized it for me, but this country is truly dead, and her priorities are out of whack with reality. Not only did we have the kind of "honoring" of a member of the chattering classes, formerly reserved for Presidents, but many folks had no problem with it. The whole exercise was about the American ideal of the Me... and the I, not the we.

Many don't get it, but this exercise was a true reflection of the new American values where we honor the well to do and the powerful, and forget about the rest of us. It was a naked example of the war on the middle class, and how the middle class is ready to bend over and receive... since we all know all of us could become one of them.

But most importantly it showed just how wrong headed our priorities are.

That is a sad statement and Rome does indeed come to mind. There is no use in keeping the barbarians outside the gate... for they already walk amongst us... and it is in this ultimate acceptance of the I culture, instead of the WE culture. It was the we, with all its problems, that built the country, and it will be the I, the new paradigm, that is destroying it.

And that, at the meta level, is what the suspension of the news, and the almost pavlovian acceptance of this very public grieving tells me. We, as a nation, have lost our bearing and have fully accepted the I is central and consumption. Perhaps the coming economic collapse will finally wake people up that this is not sustainable.... perhaps that will also make people realize why the I paradigm is so damaging.

I realize that for some this is insulting, that I even question the weekend taken by a media conglomerate, one of the five that controls all you read, watch and consume. in their effort to suspend the news. After all, how dare i do that? I understand, after all this is a direct attack on the I that is the current paradigm and a product of the Reagan Revolution. For those who feel this is insulting, it is not about Tim Russert but about themselves.. the I, the Ego, going ME TO. I want to be the I, and to hell with the we. And it is time we as a nation reject the I and embrace the We, or we will face an end just as violent as Soviet Russia or Imperial Rome. And in your protests you have surrendered to the I... which is the modern paradigm of the Conservative movement... you have internalized those values.

I also realize that many of you will call bullshit on this. But if it reaches at least one person... I have done my job... for waking the community will be a concerted effort. And in this sense the weekend may provide a service, as a few put down the blue pill and take the red pill.

[JeffR]

1. Well said.

K & R.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

2. I rarely watch CNN, but it is the channel that the TV has to be on to watch

VHS tapes. So I'm about to watch a program that I recorded overnight, and CNN is STILL going on about Tim Russert. People who were a lot more important and deserving managed to die and get buried with less fuss.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Including some Presidents, indeed

why I said this is about the new values, the I....

[Bluerthanblue]

49. Maybe you've just

noticed this about the media- Perhaps that is why you are so distressed about the coverage of Tim Russert-

As for me Nadinbrzezinski- I haven't expected the television media to tell me what I need to know for quite some time now.

The values aren't new- they've been in operation since the selection of Bush if not before.


:shrug:
peace~

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Well before 2000, at least 1986, I am just pointing to the lesson some are missing

by the way, thanks for your concern.

[stillcool]

4. Everytime I read another..

story about how outrageous some tv commentator is, or what one of the cable talk shows choose as infotainment, I hope that another person somewhere is saying enough of this bullshit. If people find it entertaining that's fine, but if people really look at this bullshit as 'news' we are fucked.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Problem is that many folks, even some Du'ers, see this as news

and the weekend... their time to mourn, has to be seen in the meta perspective... it is truly the triumph of the I

[Rick Myers]

6. We're not totally gone... But we are VERY close to the edge...

:toast:

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Indeed, why I keep posting trying to reach folks

and if I reach ONE and make them think... I've done my job to try to keep the barbarians on the edges

[hvn_nbr_2]

8. The death of the US is the real goal of the corporatist/neocon agenda.

The US government was the only institution in the world with the power to restrain multinational megacorporations. As soon as the US government is made completely into a shell and a tool of corporations (not far away), the same will happen to Japan and the larger countries in Europe. The goal is a medieval/feudal system where corporations and their executives have the role that noble landowners had during the European Middle Ages. There will still be official "governments" but they will do the bidding of corporations; their real function will be to keep the serfs/slaves in line. It's not yet clear if the role of the medieval church will be taken by wacko fundies or just dispensed with.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Trust in the church being brought back

and this is what SF was written about... thirty and forty years ago... see Heinlein

[tbyg52]

84. And Pohl. nt

[TBF]

119. And Margaret Atwood.

"The Handmaid's Tale" should be required reading in all high schools.

[defendandprotect]

110. Not familiar with . . .

Heinlein, but I did do a quick search --- the science fiction writer?

Actually, I'm hoping that it's not being brought back ---
The Vatican has written off the US, Canada, Latin America --- believe it or not?
They now see their new fortunes being fulfilled in Africa and China!

People are waking up, especially to organized patriarchal religions --- and
seemingly faster than we think --- just not fast enough for me!

From the higher perpective, unloosing the control of organized patriarchal religions on
the minds of "men" can be a very benefifical thing for the planet!

[TBF]

120. Start with "Stranger in a Strange Land" :)

I promise it will be worth your time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

125. Or to a point starship troopers and I don't mean the simulacrum that was the movie

[tbyg52]

142. Or for some more cheerful political Heinlein

Double Star and The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress.

Anybody on the list seemed to have had a time machine, in spots, but it's not magic. They were just able to observe, reason, and write.

Specific Pohl - The Space Merchants. More obscure, but maybe even more a preview of what might be to come, Gladiator-at-Law. More cheerful political - The Years of the City.

[defendandprotect]

143. Well, it happens that . . .

I'm going to the library later today ---
so I may take a quick look --

However, organized patriarchal religions were put in place with VIOLENCE . . .
without that violence, without that intimidation, people walk away.

Since at the moment, the Vatican no longer has an army -- people continue to walk away.

On the other hand, the US seems to have a bit of a "crusade" going on in Iraq wiping out
Muslims?

GENOCIDE?

[TBF]

144. I don't think Genocide is the goal. I do think the "hate the Muslims"

fearmongering is played up to encourage support from the masses (specifically the "low information" group). People re-elected Bush in 2004 so someone is buying into the hate. The goal is the money (oil) - it is always the money for people like Bush/Cheney.

[defendandprotect]

145. I think they're hitting a couple of birds with one stone here . . .

Without doubt the primary interest is access and control of the Middle East and its oil ---

However, there are many characteristics of a "crusade" --- and this has been mentioned
in at least one book and at least a few articles --

The neo-cons have quite often shown their racist, sexist, homophobic and "Christian" biases ....
I have no doubt that they are in play wherever they are in control --

I don't want to try to deny that people "are buying into the hatred" preached by the neo-cons,
HOWEVER, I really don't agree that citizens re-elected Bush in 2004, any more than they elected
him in 2000 ---

Meanwhile, some estimates are that 2 million Iraqi civilians are dead ---
and we know that the US refused to clean up the first round of depleted uranium and other
contaminants after the first Gulf War and 500,000 Iraqi children died after that.
Currently, we're re-contaminating Iraq with more depleted uranium -- and phosphorus/? --
and somewhere in a DU thread more birth defects are being reported --- including again among
our own soldiers' families.

[TBF]

146. Well that's true about the elections - we know for sure 2000 was a farce.

Did you ever think we would say that about an election in the US? The damage to Iraq and its people is absolutely revolting.

[defendandprotect]

147. Right . . .

I feel strongly about Ohio and they seemed to have turned up a lot of stuff --

No -- I didn't think about election steals other than what they always said:
"Democrats steal/GOP steals" . . . not until 2000.
And, I remember being so overjoyed when they announced that the Florida Supreme
Court was ordering the recount in Miami-Dade County --- and then the GOP fascist rally!
And no one stopping it!

Sometime after the 2000 election, however, I became aware that actually the computer
counters began coming in during the mid-1960's.
I came upon a story of two journalists in Florida who began to investigate the computers
because of oddities they were noticing.
It's quite some story --

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm


SO . . . I'm basically looking at steals much before 2000 --
I think 2000 just turned out to be harder for them and it got very NOISY.
Especially that the Supremes had to jump in to save them --

IMO, once they killed JFK they weren't going to let power slip away from them . . .
they've kept at it --

I'm rethinking the Nixon/Humphrey election --- !!

I'm with you on Iraq --
I don't know how our nation could ever atone for the damage done to that nation and
its people. Topped off with an organized system of torture.

[defendandprotect]

109. Exactly . . .

to think that the US will go fascist but this won't touch the rest of the world . . . ?
I agree with your thinking on how this will spread.

Capitalism comes out of feudalism --

I think patriarchy has to continue on with organized patriarchal religion because it is
the underpinning for patriarchy --

It wasn't sufficient for males to simply war on females, for instance ---
they had to have a list of "god laws" that would make the female subservient ---
The Bible was written to cement the patriarchy --

Also, underpinned by "Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature" . . .
These are the license to exploit nature, natural resources, animal-life --- and
even other human beings according to various myths of inferiority.

They'll keep it!

Actually, it was the GOP which gave start up funds for the "Moral Majority" ---

[Leopolds Ghost]

138. Yep.

The landowners did the same thing to Rome, BTW. Who do you think funded the barbarian invasions?

Land "reforms" designed to finance mercenary armies using debt slavery.

[skooooo]

9. I think we are more like the mythical Pheonix.

We will overcome our problems and prosper. It will take time, but I believe there is something intrinsic about America that makes it thrive - namely the immigrants, and the albeit unsteady evolution of civil rights.

[B.S. Lewis]

15. are either of those "instrinsic"?

Immigration looks like it's on a path to be halted or severely constrained; civil rights seems poised to take a few steps backwards (and has, since the 90's).

I think they are merely good trends which are (1) possible in any country and (2) eminently reversible here.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Welcome to DU

and not even Rome survived... and lord knows Rome was the longest single state ever.

People at times think the US is outside history

[skooooo]

18. well excuse me...

Your point of view is no more or less valid than mine.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. You are right, but I will point to the seven thousand years of recorded history

as proof that NO nation or empire survives for ever.

[skooooo]

22. Nations survive.

Governments change. Nations are people - the Latins or Italians, the Greeks, the Chinese have been around since recorded history. China aint going nowhere.

And that is what I believe in - Americans as a people, if they can continue to draw from the roots of the founders, I believe we shall continue for quite a while.. so sue me!

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Ok sorry, I forgot Rome is still here

and the Italy of Garibaldi is the same Italy of Caesar...

Okie dokie...

And let me see where is Thrace and the Thracians? How about the Nubians? Hell, my favorite ones the Mongols... who destroyed the dream of the Kievan way of life?

No, the Italians speak a successor to the Latin language, but they have very little in common with Rome, in values and traditions.

Sorry to point this out, but the American Empire is on its way down... and if we are lucky the country will survive the crash. We are NOT outside history... nor are we eternal

[skooooo]

28. nation = people

nufff said

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Wrong, but let me not confuse you with history

[skooooo]

33. look it UP in the DICTONARY

ok? That's the definition of the word.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Ok, and... it is FAR MORE COMPLEX

look up POLITICAL HISTORY to see what the concept of a NATION STATE is...

And again, do please point to the Thracians...

And NATIONS DO COME AND GO... that is the TRUTH... GOT IT NOW?

And the I and ME is KILLING THIS COUNTRY AS A NATION STATE....

Enjoy the phoenix and thinking we live outside history

[skooooo]

39. okey dokey

:hi:

[Selatius]

76. In general, I consider people and nations as different. National gov'ts come and go. People don't.

The United States of America as a political entity will not last forever. It, too, will fall if history is any indication. Only the subjects of that former government will live on.

However, people change. Languages are lost and changed, and religions are lost or changed as well. New ideas are born, and old ideas get replaced, and the cycle continues on.

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. and the romans of the first century have a little in common

with current Italians... perhaps Pizza and definitely olives... but the mores of a first century italian are very different than any modern Italian

:-)

When this country is long gone and into the dustbin of history I don't expect our descendants to even speak anything resembling modern English either. If they did I'd be shocked... given the hell of a time that Shakespeare is to read at times... let alone Chaucer.

If we are lucky, our descendants will remember us... if we fall into a dark age... well maybe not

[FiveGoodMen]

122. Stop being obtuse

The definition of 'nation' isn't the point.

If you don't get that, go play with some kids your own age.

[LanternWaste]

108. I don't think so.

I don't think so.

Cultures may be equivalent to people, but nations are nothing more than an ever changing border defined by ever changing government.

So no-- I don't think that "'nuf said" argument quite captures the complex totality of sociology.

[defendandprotect]

111. Are you considering Global Warming . . . ???

This is a very serious threat not only to humanity but to the planet ---

[skooooo]

17. intrinsic

..that's what i said.

There's still lots of immigration going on...legal or illegal it's going to happen. Intrinsic march of civil rights. It's unsteady, but it's always been there, maybe late, but coming.

I can't believe all the gloom and doom around here. I guess none of these people are supporting Obama's message of hope and promise of hard work.

[B.S. Lewis]

25. no...

I don't think that either one is intrinsic in any way. I think you misunderstood.

[skooooo]

27. it's difficult talking over the internets.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. WHAT? If they wanted to shut them down tomorrow

it is so easy it is not even funny. Why the world has been trying to get at least two of the root servers out of grubby hands for the last seven years

[TBF]

121. With Bush it has been a challenge to be positive.

It's open season on immigrants and forget about civil rights. An Obama presidency should do alot to correct the missteps, but we've got to get him elected.

[Canuckistanian]

10. Many of us agree

I have watched this latest development with alarm.

The America I knew and grew up with is gone, replaced with a shallow replica of itself.

GONE is the "shining beacon" of freedom, truth and knowlege.

What's left is just decay, cynicism and a slim hope in the future.

You all know what to do.

It's just a matter of dedication to those "antiquated ideals".

[dana_b]

11. well, I understand your point but

I think that this nation has been going through drastic changes for a while. I do think it proves that "journalism" in this country is at a death rattle. There are very few who do real investigative journalism. This weekend could have been a huge news cycle but evidently the Midwest floods, the Supreme Court ruling, impeachment articles, Afghanistan and more couldn't compete with the death of one journalist.

[T.Ruth2power]

12. When was it any different?

America has always been a lie and has needed copious amounts of propaganda to cover the ugly stains that are indeed more closely linked to the truth of what has always been.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. When you didn't have large conglomerates feeding you the "news"

why one objective of the corpos and the extreme right was to take over the news, starting in the 1960s

It wasn't ideal, but there was a time when news were not fully suspended...

[skooooo]

20. ..lol when wasn't this the case??

There's more sources for news now than ever. When has it been any better? When there were 3 television networks? bah i say!

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. So do point to me the extensive and full coverage of the

midwest floods...

I am waiting


(Hold it, I found it, in the fereign press)

[skooooo]

23. Good you found it...

...that means anyone else can if they want to.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Ok let me spell it for you, the JOB OF THE FOURTH ESTATE is to cover things liek

FLOODS,

Which they MOSTLY FAILED.

Clear enough?

Jeesus age, why is it that people have such a hard time GETTING THIS?

[Bluerthanblue]

59. I think you are overwhelmed-

and I'm sorry that is happening to you-

What exactly do you think that 24/7 "coverage" of the floods is going to actually accomplish????

I'll join you in saying that the people need help- that they are suffering, and that the damage done, and being done is going to impact people far outside the immediate area- but tell me- what difference does MSNBC's lack of mega coverage have to do with that?

What do you really think you are accomplishing?

Do you want people to CARE???- Well, FUCK- so do I- about many MANY issues. Ones that are life threatening, and ones that are altering our society- but to put that off on the "media" to think that if only they shut up about Russert- and if they did, it would be other 'stories'- like the Mormon children- like a shark attack- like the Celtics vs. Lakers- or illegal steroids-

You are looking for salvation in the wrong place-

And you are looking for someone/thing to blame for what is in reality an "act of nature"- I understand the feelings-and the frustration.

Imagine being in China- ? or in Myanmar-? we are not alone in our struggles. Natural disasters are happening everywhere.

And as for 'recorded history'- I've lived a half a century- and seen more than I wish to have seen.
There is much for us to learn from looking at what has come before- But the "history" books are still being written, and while we can point to times in the past and make 'educated guesses' about what to expect from the future based on history- it is only guessing-
In 'recorded history' up until the middle of the last century having a human being ACTUALLY set foot on the moon, was something of dreams and fairy tales- now, it is indeed "history"-

You can't claim that America will fail based solely on what has occurred in the past- unless you are into self-fulfilling prophesy-

I'm learning that isn't usually a great thing.

peace~

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. Nothing personal but I think you are being an ass and cannot deal with

clear and truthful criticism of the Media, who I will remind you, ARE NOT DOING THEIR JOBS

Now Doctor Freud get off your couch.

:banghead:

Now criticism of the media transfers to psychiatric conditions... where have I seen this before in the historical record? Oh yes, Soviet Union, where people were trained by the state to treat those who were midly critical of the state as mentallly insane and where those who were even louder, were actualy commited to mental institutions

I did not realize, thanks for the heads up, that our propaganda had reached that point.

[Bluerthanblue]

64. I do not think that you are insane by ANY

stretch of the imagination.

I do think that you are obsessing over this Russert stuff-

If criticizing the 'state' equates to insanity- you are slow gettin on the boat- I'm sorry you think I'm being an ass- I'm not intending to be- that doesn't change how you view me though- and that is ok-

Answer me this honestly please- if Russert hadn't died, and MSNBC STILL hadn't covered the flooding in the midwest- would you still have had your epiphiny?

Because, I doubt very much that Russert really had much impact on what the CORPORATE RUN 'information' servers were going to neglect to make a public 'story'.

You didn't seem to have read my post- or maybe I AM as terrible at communicating as I fear- but I can't see where you've addressed my questions.

What do you think 24/7 coverage of the flooding will do to alieviate the suffering??????

How will that change what has happened to the crops?

Again- I'll say, I think what you are really asking is for people to CARE- To quit all the mindless busy-ness that has become American society and "be- there" for each other.

I want that too- but the media hasn't been an instrument for that kind of thing in far too long.

I hate to say this, but it took a couple of airliners crashing into buildings to really get people's attention- and what did the government do when we were all together looking for leadership??? It told us to go shopping-
To go about our business as usual-

While it dismantled our constitution- and instilled fear into the general public- people who were naieve enough to trust that the 'govt' could be trusted.


I don't think your crazy- I think you are understandibly distressed- and you are NOT alone in that.

peace~

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. You really don't know the role of a RESPONSIBLE media in disasters do you

1.-they alleviate nothing

2.- They are SOURCES of information for RESPONDERS and others to see where the help is needed... perhaps your husband was never part of the Incident Command System... but some of us were. And for some of us the media is just one more SOURCE of INTELLIGENCE...GOT IT NOW? And this is both LOCAL and NATIONAL news services.

As your husband about this silly term called triage and System Command, he MIGHT be able to explain it to you.

And no, I am NOT fixating on Rusert... it seems though that you are taking the criticism of the media personally WHY? is Tim Russert somebody who visited you often? A family friend? Somehow I doubt it, but I wonder.

WHY DO YOUR NEED TO DEFEND AN IRRESPONSIBLE MEDIA

And yes, in the USSR citizens were instructed to think that those who WERE critical of the state suffered from mental health conditions... and I have often wondered when this stage of the propaganda would be reached in the US?

By the way the Rusert gag fest is the latest in a series of them, but THE FIRST ONE where ALL networks cancelled the news for an afternoon and one network cancelled them for a weekend. It is part of a continuum

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

[CrispyQ]

96. Sometimes it's not a matter of "if they want to."

It's easy for those of us with time & internet access to say that others could source out the truth if they wanted to. I went from a part time job to a full time job & was stunned at how little time I had to read various sources of news on the internet - some weeks I had no time at all. And I don't even have children! How the hell is anyone who works 2-3 jobs going to find the time? Or any number of other commitments that other people have that you may not.

Walk a mile in their shoes before you make casual assumptions.

[defendandprotect]

112. When --- ????

"The myth of a free press died with the assassination of President John F. Kennedy" --

and everything else immediately began to be changed --- shuffled ---

The elite moved their criminals into power --- everywhere ---

[MuseRider]

24. This is the one biggest thing

I will never forgive Reagan for. So many bad things came from that administration but that is the worst because almost all of the bad springs from that attitude. It was particularly bad, as you will relate to, coming from the age when so many were trying to look outside themselves. They (we) were trying for enlightenment and joining together all things. It was so amazing how quickly that was dropped in favor of the feel good acceptance of everything you were as OK without need of improvement and the I becoming the most one ever needed.

I so agree with you and it depresses me to no end. We can never be even close to what we were or tried to be if we can't see that the we is the most important part of that effort.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. My hope is that this too shall pass

ah the great flood of 1927 and the Great Depression did wonders in that sense

[MuseRider]

34. You got that right.

I am afraid at this point that is what it is going to take. What a way to learn a lesson, over and over and over again.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. Not teaching history does that

But I am not counting on that doing the trick either... the US population of the 1920s and 1930s was very different than we are, values et al... and chiefly it wasn't a country of I and ME, but WE

[MuseRider]

43. True.

We can't even remember history long enough to keep the same bunch of crooks from one administration from showing up again in another within our short voting lives.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Take broom, put under carpet, forget

then be surprised when they come back

Repeat...

I know

[MuseRider]

58. I know you understand that.

This is what happens when you do not hold them accountable. Unless we do that we will forget and they will be back and if we are not done now we will be the next time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. And I fear that this is exactly what they want

so they can finally get the fully opened fascist state they want

[skooooo]

35. well duh

That's exactly my point. We will go through a crisis and come out the other side. That's all I'm saying. There is no calamity that signals the end of America. We have to change, and we will.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Not ALL CRISIS are survivable, and that IS MY POINT

got it now?

[skooooo]

40. no

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Then I fear I can't help you and I hope that you don't get to see it

in your life...

[skooooo]

48. I'll keep hoping you see the light some day.

[defendandprotect]

114. Remember that Reagan came sailing in on "The October Surprise" . . .

a little different kind of a steal -- but it was . . .

First via the intense right-wing propaganda ---
Ted Koppel's 11 pm program "Late Night" every night was a large part of it ---

Every day and every night re the hostages --- blocking out anything else going on and putting
a lot of the country into the mood to bomb all of Iran ---

Hostages are one of the most sensitive issues --- that's why every nation pretty much LIES
about leaving anyone behind when a war is over!
The right-wing exploited the issue for months and months ---

Until finally the country was chanting --- "ABC" --- "Anyone but Carter!" ---

Reflect back on that Inauguration and how phoney everything was --- !!!


Also reflect on the fact that THREE/? of Carter's rescue missions pretty much never even
got off the ground! All a reflection on him and his presidency!!!
Yet who was actually planning and running the operations?
Helicopters went down repeatedly in the desert ---
Seems they didn't have the simple equipment necessary to keep SAND out of the engines!!!!

Why wasn't this considered military/Pentagon/CIA failure????
Why wasn't all of this questioned . .. investigated???

It was one of our first media circus events --- one of our first TV Swiftboatings ---

[MuseRider]

118. I had tiny, little kids at that time

and even though I was very busy I do remember all of that like it was yesterday. We knew, my husband and I, what was going on. I spent the longest time waiting for this to come out and was stunned that it was never mentioned. It was my first inkling that things were not going well.

Oh it was a steal all right, a big one using people and lives at their whim just to advance themselves. Some things never change. People are pawns to them, we are nothing more than a useful way to an end. I thought Nixon was bad but that Reagan administration baffled me for quite some time and made me very afraid for this country. The same damned crooks are back. We will never learn.

[damntexdem]

41. For heavens sakes, just speak well of the dead.

I've largely ignored all the discussion of TR, just let it flow past me. It will all go away, as soon as the MSM is distracted by the next fad.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Precisely, instead of doing their job

and people accept this

[theboss]

42. Does anyone remember when Sinatra died?

That was a week.......

[skooooo]

44. aye

[theboss]

50. But at DU, there was no world prior to 2000

So that doesn't count.

[leftofthedial]

52. why do you hate America?

and how can you be so cruel to poor Tim Russert, who was the greatest journalist since Jimmy Olsen?





:cry:



:cry:


:eyes:





:sarcasm:


dude wasn't just another rich celeb du jour--HE WAS ACTIVELY AN ENEMY OF DEMOCRACY--and DUers--including more than a few people I once thought were sane!--were eulogizing him like he was a combination of Walter Cronkite and Princess Di or something.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. St Russert and we should have Gibson do the Last days of the Russert

to be shown every year.

:sarcasm:

What you saw was the I fully identifying with the propaganda

[leftofthedial]

54. I'm utterly flabbergasted

by the last few days.

[deaniac21]

55. I got bored by the second paragraph but I'm certain you have a point!

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. I has replaced we as a national value

and you saw it on your teevee... the cliffs notes

[TheWatcher]

73. Well, heavens, we wouldn't want you to actually have to THINK or COMPREHEND

Something important and complex!

*Pats you on the head*

I'm sorry you had to go through that, pumpkin.

It's alright, it's AL-RIGHT.......

Lakers/Celtics Game 6 will be on in about 17 hours, and this Post will seem like just a bad dream.....

:eyes:

Apathy.....My Favorite Sin.

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. Mebbe we should link to some of Arendt's "snoozers."

:-)

Actually to me is the choice between the red and the blue pill and we know what most folks choose

[TheWatcher]

79. Most folks have chosen the Blue Pill unfortunately

The reasons? Take your pick. Comfort over Clarity. Fear. Willful Ignorance. Apathy. Overwhelmed. The choice of "I" over "We", as you said, is a very poignant observation.

Most Americans simply aren't capable or willing to be a Free People anymore.

I don't know who I am more disturbed by at this point.

Those who are pulling the strings of our demise, or those of us who are dancing right along to the tune, like willing Marionettes.

The Symphony Of Destruction Continues.....

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. The symphony of destruction I like it

[tom_paine]

131. Copyright: Megadeth, the Heavy Metal band

You take a mortal man,
And put him in control
Watch him become a god,
Watch peoples heads aroll
Aroll...

/chorus/
Just like the pied piper
Led rats through the streets
We dance like marionettes,
Swaying to the symphony...
Of destruction

Acting like a robot,
Its metal brain corrodes.
You try to take its pulse,
Before the head explodes.
Explodes...

/chorus/

The earth starts to rumble
World powers fall
Awarring for the heavens,
A peaceful man stands tall
Tall...




Pretty much sums it up, no? And they say Heavy Metal is moronic puppy-killing music! (at least that's what an old girlfirend of mine used to say)

[nadinbrzezinski]

133. I like it....

I can't stand to listen to it, but lyrics usually are interesting

Thanks

And it sums it up perfectly

[many a good man]

57. We all must genuflect before the altar of our media masters

The Grand Duke of Conventional Wisdom and Received Opinion has cast his mortal coils and now walks in the pantheon amongst the most exceptional figures of American greatness. His passing exemplifies the gloriousness and righteousness of our corporate media masters without whom we would wallow in ignorance and shallow self-interest. His life was a light, a beacon with which the American polity would surely have crashed against the rocky shores of reason and democracy long ago. The corporate media bask in the sunlight of his greatness and we, the American people, are ever grateful for his magnificent benevolence! We are humbled as we bow in appreciation of his enduring legacy and give thanks for the gifts of knowledge and wisdom he and the corporate media he represents have bequeathed to us and our patrimony.

Please join me in a moment of silence as contemplate the tragic loss of a once vigorous democratic republic.

[prairierose]

61. I think that this is a very important idea...

and you have expressed it quite clearly. Thanks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. You welcome,

Information and foreknowledge is our best defense

[mikelewis]

65. Equality 7-2521, that is an Unspeakable Word.

[Swamp Rat]

67. Speaking of Rome, I am about to watch the "I, CLAVDIVS" series again.

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. That is a CLASSIC... have fun kid-o

I may break out my copy of the rise and fall and re-read that too

[trusty elf]

83. I adore that series!

What a superb production, what wonderful acting and stylish sets!

The opening sequence is cool with that snake slithering over the mosaic. Great music too.

I have the tapes, but it would be nice to have DVDs.

:hi:

What about "I, Dubious"?

[Swamp Rat]

93. Salü tomeboy!

Wie gaht's?:hi:

[L0oniX]

94. So You're saying that George has sex with his sister?

:evilgrin:

[Xenotime]

69. This country is dead. It would be better under a different law where

all are equal and people have equal rights. Right now, the rich get richer and get away with crimes against humanity. The poor are forced to suffer without any hope from anyone including those who swore to protect them.

That is the definition of a dead country.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. It is a sign indeed

the other is that people are having no problem with this

[TheKentuckian]

70. Stop blaming the media

It's the fault of the viewer for making sensationalism, controversy, and sleazy scandals be stories that get the ratings and sell the ads.

We got away with a press that was owned and operated by people that actually felt an obligation to inform the public for a long time, but eventually folks started looking to make money off of what they produced and gave the public what it wanted.
The Free Press is dead by popular demand and it goes almost without saying that so goes truth and liberty as well.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. So I control the message that those who control the message decide to run

okie dokie....

Tell me how many corporations OWN all you see, read and listen to?

[TheWatcher]

74. Delete.

Wrong Spot. :)

[TheWatcher]

75. K&R

[davidpdx]

81. I understand what you mean

there has been a gradual "dumbing down" of Americans, especially in the last 8 years by the media. The good news is people are starting become more aware about it and there are plenty of groups out there bring attention to what is happening.

*closing in on 1000*

[and-justice-for-all]

82. In short...Amerika has no solidarity.....nt

[Hangingon]

85. What is the saying?

Rumors of our death are greatly exaggerated.

[Jennicut]

86. I have not really had a problem with them memoralizing Tim Russert

The media lost an important member of their own whom everyone liked and respected and who was a good solid man and good person. The death of this country will come in the form of the lack of scrutinization of McCain. The man has gotten a free ride unless you count K.O. and Dan Abrams. They are the only two in the media who have consistantly shown any willingness to attack McCain's posistions and statements on a nightly basis. Hell, all Fox does is attack Obama night and day (so much for "fair and balanced" but we knew that already). What gets me is the lack of critique from CNN and other MSNBC pundits. GE time is here folks, time to step up and do your job.

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. IN case you missed this, the OP is not about the GE

but a deeper META aspect of society and what has been lost

As to memorializing, fine... if it was a SLOW news weekend, fine, do that... alas it wasn't

Granted, they would have FOUND another distraction

[AngryAmish]

87. I think someone needs a hug

You seem to think there was always an unbiased press in this country. Wrong. People watch what people watch.

Look at lots of sources. Use this internet thingy.

Or better yet, go outside and enjoy yourself. I like to sit in my backyard, bbq a large portion of a pig and listen to the ballgame. You could find happiness somewhere else.

Taking a historic view, our country is not failing in the short term. Probably not even the medium term. It will fail in the long term. It happens.

Life is for living. Live it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

99. Hugs back at you

WHOOOSHHH missed what I said at a social meta level

[LWolf]

88. I get it.

I have since the Reagan Revolution that I lived through.

I can't disagree with you. I can only say that the American values you've exposed are what enables the embedded corruption that rules our government and the media.

I don't know what to do about it. :(

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. Start local, rebuild community and the sense of the WE

in your community

Talk to your neighbors, offer to take care of their kids... things like that

[LWolf]

141. That's a good reminder.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Romulox]

89. Millions have lost their jobs and way of life in the industrial midwest

With not a peep from the rest of the country. (If you want to hear "solidarity", start a thread about out of work auto workers here on DU--many people applaud the loss of jobs! :scared: ) It's not "time to come together" when it's your interests on the line--the time to come together has come and gone, and the damage has been done.

If you don't care about me and mine, then likewise, I'm sure.

[nadinbrzezinski]

101. The PURPOSEFUL deendustrialization of the country is

part of this meta social level we are seeing. What you saw this weekend is part of it

And by the way, the LOSS of worker beats across the nation's papers is part of it

You got it

[mochajava666]

90. "W" is the last gasp of the Reagan Revolution

My first vote at age 18 was for Carter over Reagan. As I came of age, I saw the US reverting to a selfish, childish mindset that grew worse with each passing year. "Bleeding Heart Liberal" was the most offensive slogan for me; as if having compassion for the less fortunate was some kind of character flaw.

I saw the 2006 elections as the nation finally not endorsing that mindset, which is hard to escape from when you feel threatened and scared. I finally see W with persistently low approval ratings and a black candidate for president that is extremely well funded. This gives me hope.

How this election goes will be the statement of the direction of this country. If this nation turns away from Obama, I'm not sure what the nation's mood would be. Hopes have been raised, and when they are dashed, violent protest out of frustration and anger can ensue, which would harden both sides.

[defendandprotect]

115. Hope you're right . . .

W may also be the end of the coup on JFK . . . but I'm not sure???

Will depend on whether or not Cheney burns down the White House before he goes --- !!!

[tabasco]

91. We must revere and trust and honor our friends on the telescreen.

[nadinbrzezinski]

102. You know they are still doing it

inserting the deathpalooza with real hard news

[Dreamer Tatum]

92. So...because your preferred programming isn't on TV, the US is dead.

I think you might just be watching too much TV.

I find it highly ironic that you are decrying the lack of "we," when your thesis is built around the most singluar possible pastime: watching television.

I was on an airplane last night with people who were (blessedly) headed to the Midwest to help the flood situation. One was going to Iowa, and
the others were going to help fight against the Mississippi cresting downriver. THAT is the ultimate expression of "we." I was humbled by their
humanism and ashamed I wasn't going with.

The US consists of more than just what we are given to watch on television, and the programming choices of the corporate media in no way doom us
to insular stupidity (unless we let it).

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. Did you miss the core of the OP? The CANCELLATION of news that AFFECTS

the WE, for the singular event that affects the I?

Good grief, tell me what did you learn this weekend on HOW TO HELP your fellow American when you are on the other side of the country?

Oh wait, a great member of the chattering classes died.

[Dreamer Tatum]

104. Interrupting the news for a vanity funeral does not NEGATE the news

If you want to see it, go there and see it. Because the coverage is not convenient to your living room doesn't
mean it isn't still happening.

I donate to the Red Cross. Since I don't live anywhere near the flood zone, I can't do much more than that right now.

Sounds like you're dying to chip in, for which I commend you. Go and do so; it would be more fulfilling than watching
it on TV.

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. You missed it, fine

by the way... in case you wonder, the telescreen if off.

But you seem to love the telescreen, and a pat to your back for giving some money to the ARC.

Good grief, people miss the meta posts... them darn critical thinking skills are not taught anymore

Here, take the blue pill

[Dreamer Tatum]

106. I don't agree with you = no critical thinking skills?

Sorry you feel that way.

[nadinbrzezinski]

107. No you missed what the OP was about, and it wasn't truly about the TEEVEE

but the loss of the national sense of WE, to be replaced by the national sense of I, or ME. which is terrible to build society

That is what this was about

Cliffs notes, and class dismissed

Here, blue pill on the way out

[Bluerthanblue]

113. I honestly believe you care, and that you

have a point to get across, but your message gets lost in the anger.

WE- collective, inclusive we, which includes you, and every last person in this world, are in this together.

This isn't a class room, and you aren't an MD prescribing pills- Your message is important.

Please try to leave the words which only serve to alienate and divide us even farther, in the trash.

You are better than they paint you to be.


:hi:

peace~

[nadinbrzezinski]

116. Two points

1.- Why do you insist I am angry I have no clue.... perhaps projection here

2.- Blue and red pill, popular cultural reference, to to the Matrix...

Perhaps you should rent it

[TheWatcher]

117. No need for most people to rent it.

They live in it.

Apparently without Remorse or Regret.

[TBF]

127. But that is the thing - they don't realize they're living it.

When marionettes are dancing on a site like DU there is a problem.

[onenote]

95. so, the Russert coverage tells you the nation is dead

It wasn't dead when it embraced slavery and Jim Crow and, 150 years later, is still only slowly and unevenly recovering from that.

It wasn't dead when thousands of Japanese-Americans were forced to live in camps.

It wasn't dead when women weren't allowed to vote.

It wasn't dead when a president kept enemies lists, bugged his office, and fought a secret war in Cambodia.

It wasn't dead when criticism of the government's policies forced a popular comedy/variety show from the air and it was replaced with a mindless country "Hee-Haw" show.

It wasn't dead during the red scares of the 20s and the 50s, when people lost their livelihood because of their political associations.

It wasn't dead when National Guard troops opened fire on studens in Ohio.

I could go on and on.

This country has never been perfect. Overall, however, and in a two steps forward, one step back sort of way, it has made a lot of progress. It has amazing resiliency to recover from the mistakes of the past and move forward, even if its at a speed that is too slow for most of us and even though the pendulum tends to swing back and forth.

I think the reports of the nation's death are greatly exagerrated.

[skooooo]

134. don't disagree with him..

...there's no room for other points of view here

[CrispyQ]

97. We've turned our back on community.

Community is what provides us the framework to be individuals.

In his book "All Together Now" Jared Bernstein talks about the WITTs vs the YOYOs.

WITT = We're In This Together.
YOYO = Your On Your Own.

He discusses the value of a shared social safety net & that in a just society, there is no limit to how far one can climb, however, there is a limit to how far one can fall. The "I/Me" mindset people think that providing a social safety net takes away from them, when in fact, it enhances our society in all ways.

[kineneb]

123. Who is this Russert guy, and why should I care?

Don't have a tube, listen to BBC, read news from independent web sources. Occasionally download Max Keiser and listen to him.

[nadinbrzezinski]

124. Then you reached for the red pill a while ago

Kudos to you

:-)

That said it isn't about Timmy... but about what this gag feast tells us of the state of the nation

[papapi]

126. Hmmmmmm.

[KoKo]

128. Well said..."...pavlovian acceptance of this very public grieving.."

Thanks...K&R!

[nadinbrzezinski]

129. You welcome,

[tom_paine]

130. Very well said, nadin!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[nadinbrzezinski]

137. Thanks Tom, seems I have been hitting into a lot of the meta

things, and that is making some of our residents a tad nervous....

And it is at times tempting to reach for the damn blue pill

[galledgoblin]

132. dead? hardly.

just eager for a revolution come November.

[nadinbrzezinski]

135. It may very well come to that, but alas not the kind you are thinking

And I do hope it does, indeed, stay peaceful

[galledgoblin]

136. I think we'll see peaceful riots on November 4th

i.e. partying in the street.

[Dark]

139. America's always been an individualistic nation. It's one of our greatest strengths and weaknesses.

nt

[blindpig]

140. Nothing new under the sun.

This has been going on forever, if anything, the continuing crisis of capitalism has provoked the 'mind control team' into working overtime that the shredding illusion be maintained. What is the indoctrination known as education but part and parcel of the illusion. Consider how slavery and Jim Crow were swept under the carpet with brief mention in primary and high school. Not to mention the genocide of Native Americans. Consider how we were taught that the 2 party system is the only one viable.

To be sure, the art of deception has been improved, and the icon of this evil art is Edward Bernays. Here's what Noam Chomsky had to say about him:


American business community was also very impressed with the propaganda effort. They had a problem at that time. The country was becoming formally more democratic. A lot more people were able to vote and that sort of thing. The country was becoming wealthier and more people could participate and a lot of new immigrants were coming in, and so on.
So what do you do? It's going to be harder to run things as a private club. Therefore, obviously, you have to control what people think. There had been public relation specialists but there was never a public relations industry. There was a guy hired to make Rockefeller's image look prettier and that sort of thing. But this huge public relations industry, which is a U.S. invention and a monstrous industry, came out of the first World War. The leading figures were people in the Creel Commission. In fact, the main one, Edward Bernays, comes right out of the Creel Commission. He has a book that came out right afterwards called Propaganda. The term "propaganda," incidentally, did not have negative connotations in those days. It was during the second World War that the term became taboo because it was connected with Germany, and all those bad things. But in this period, the term propaganda just meant information or something like that. So he wrote a book called Propaganda around 1925, and it starts off by saying he is applying the lessons of the first World War. The propaganda system of the first World War and this commission that he was part of showed, he says, it is possible to "regiment the public mind every bit as much as an army regiments their bodies." These new techniques of regimentation of minds, he said, had to be used by the intelligent minorities in order to make sure that the slobs stay on the right course. We can do it now because we have these new techniques.
This is the main manual of the public relations industry. Bernays is kind of the guru. He was an authentic Roosevelt/Kennedy liberal. He also engineered the public relations effort behind the U.S.-backed coup which overthrew the democratic government of Guatemala.
His major coup, the one that really propelled him into fame in the late 1920s, was getting women to smoke. Women didn't smoke in those days and he ran huge campaigns for Chesterfield. You know all the techniques—models and movie stars with cigarettes coming out of their mouths and that kind of thing. He got enormous praise for that. So he became a leading figure of the industry, and his book was the real manual.

Here's the first few paragraphs from his "classic" from 1928, Propaganda:

CHAPTER I
ORGANIZING CHAOS

THE conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country.
We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society.
Our invisible governors are, in many cases, unaware of the identity of their fellow members in the inner cabinet.
They govern us by their qualities of natural leadership, their ability to supply needed ideas and by their key position in the social structure. Whatever attitude one chooses to take toward this condition, it remains a fact that in almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons—a trifling fraction of our hundred and twenty million—who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind, who harness old social forces and contrive new ways to bind and guide the world.
It is not usually realized how necessary these invisible governors are to the orderly functioning of our group life. In theory, every citizen may vote for whom he pleases. Our Constitution does not envisage political parties as part of the mechanism of government, and its framers seem not to have pictured to themselves the existence in our national politics of anything like the modern political machine. But the American voters soon found that without organization and direction their individual votes, cast, perhaps, for dozens or hundreds of candidates, would produce nothing but confusion. Invisible government, in the shape of rudimentary political parties, arose almost overnight. Ever since then we have agreed, for the sake of simplicity and practicality, that party machines should narrow down the field of choice to two candidates, or at most three or four.
In theory, every citizen makes up his mind on public questions and matters of private conduct. In practice, if all men had to study for themselves the abstruse economic, political, and ethical data involved in every question, they would find it impossible to come to a conclusion about anything. We have voluntarily agreed to let an invisible government sift the data and high-spot the outstanding issues so that our field of choice shall be narrowed to practical proportions. From our leaders and the media they use to reach the public, we accept the evidence and the demarcation of issues bearing upon public questions; from some ethical teacher, be it a minister, a favorite essayist, or merely prevailing opinion, we accept a standardized code of social conduct to which we conform most of the time.
In theory, everybody buys the best and cheapest commodities offered him on the market. In practice, if every one went around pricing, and chemically testing before purchasing, the dozens of soaps or fabrics or brands of bread which are for sale, economic life would become hopelessly jammed. To avoid such confusion, society consents to have its choice narrowed to ideas and objects brought to its attention through propaganda of all kinds. There is consequently a vast and continuous effort going on to capture our minds in the interest of some policy or commodity or idea.
It might be better to have, instead of propaganda and special pleading, committees of wise men who would choose our rulers, dictate our conduct, private and public, and decide upon the best types of clothes for us to wear and the best kinds of food for us to eat. But we have chosen the opposite method, that of open competition. We must find a way to make free competition function with reasonable smoothness. To achieve this society has consented to permit free competition to be organized by leadership and propaganda.
Some of the phenomena of this process are criticized—the manipulation of news, the inflation of personality, and the general ballyhoo by which politicians and commercial products and social ideas are brought to the consciousness of the masses. The instruments by which public opinion is organized and focused may be misused. But such organization and focusing are necessary to orderly life.
As civilization has become more complex, and as the need for invisible government has been increasingly demonstrated, the technical means have been invented and developed by which opinion may be regimented.
With the printing press and the newspaper, the railroad, the telephone, telegraph, radio and airplanes, ideas can be spread rapidly and even instantaneously over the whole of America.

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/bernprop.html

Read it and weep.