I was born the same year as Tim Russert .. and I hope someone cares enough to dance on my grave

[Fumesucker]

In today's political climate, if you aren't making enemies then you're doing something wrong.

No age is "too young to die", if I drop dead today I will have had a good life and few regrets. Death is a part of life and plenty of people who deserve death far less than Tim Russert will get it far before his (or my) age. Some of those who deserve death less than little Timmeh will have at least been helped on their way to that condition by Timmeh's cheerleading for war.

To paraphrase Forrest Gump, "evil is as evil does, sir" and little Timmeh did evil when he enthusiastically supported a completely needless war.

A lifetime of good can indeed be eclipsed by a single evil act if that act is but heinous enough.

[Rosemary2205]

1. I tell ya

The day someone on DU made a point of telling me I was being put on ignore was one proud moment - although I did not set out to upset anyone but just to be the honest me. I was just so proud that I wasn't INVISIBLE. :)

[Fumesucker]

10. I think I may have been put on ignore

At least I hope I have. :)

[Buzz Clik]

12. I'm pretty sure I had Rosemary on Ignore for a while.

I cleaned out the pool after the dust from the primaries settled.

[Fumesucker]

15. I've never understood the use of an "ignore" function..

If I don't want to read something, I just don't read it.

[Buzz Clik]

18. It's a substitute for self-control.

If I get wrapped up in a heated conversation that goes bad, I use Ignore to avoid some of the deadly sins that can put me on vacation from DU.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. I was just put on ignore yesterday

for not worshipping at the altar of Russert.

It was a proud moment indeed.

[Buzz Clik]

17. I've put you on my Ignore list a dozen times.

Seriously, you can be very annoying with no particular purpose.

When I put someone on ignore it's for the sole purpose of getting them to shut the fuck up. I disagree with a lot of people who never come close to my Ignore list.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. I guess I should put you BACK on my ignore list

Damn, I just purged it all after Hillary dropped out.

[Buzz Clik]

2. You can hire grave dancers.

I've started such a service in our area.

• For $50 bucks, you can get a guy in a leprechaun suit to dance a jig on your fresh grave for an hour.
  
• For $100, we'll get a couple to jitterbug for 45 minutes.
  
• Our most popular package costs $500. You get a country dj to play music for an entire evening while 20 people line dance on your grave. It's an incredible sight.
  
• If none of this is appealing, for $10, I'll walk my dog by your grave every day for a week and let him "mark" your headstone and leave a little treasure.

[Fumesucker]

5. I'm gonna have me some sincere mourners..

And a few dancers..

I'm politically outspoken enough to have made a few enemies, especially living down here in the Bible Belt as I do.

But your dog is welcome on my grave, I like dogs (and cats too).

[babylonsister]

7. LOL! Always thinking! nt

[Buzz Clik]

3. Well, you know. A lot of people made that same mistake.

Just about all of Congress, for instance. We have forgiven Kerry, Clinton, Edwards, and the gang for their mistakes. The stage for that blunder was actually set during the Clinton administration when every notable politician (particularly the Dems) declared that Saddam was a threat.

Other brilliant political analysts made the same mistake -- Fareed Zakaria comes to mind. Zakaria, despite his early endorsement, recognized his blunder and came out early against the war. Can we ever forgive him, or is pure evil, too?

[Fumesucker]

8. If your friends all jumped off a cliff

Would you do it too?

I'm not impressed by the number of people who advocated evil.. It is still evil.

[Buzz Clik]

11. If all my friends jumped off a cliff? You're starting to sound like my grandmother.

Calling someone evil -- and I'm assuming that Zakaria is now in that group -- assumes that you know their motivations for taking the stand in support of the war. So, why did Zakaria support the war? Or Clinton, Edwards, and Kerry? What evil plan were they a part of?

[Fumesucker]

13. Could it be because I'm a grandpa?

What evil plan?

The plan to kill hundreds of thousands of people who had never done anything to us.

That is what happens in war, many, many innnocent people die.

Anyone who is even a casual student of history knew exactly how Iraq would work out.. Check out this video interview of Cheney in 1994, he knew.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I

[Buzz Clik]

16. You misunderstand. I was opposed to our invading both Iraq and Afghanistan.

I was probably wrong on Afghanistan, but I'm not sure.

That's not the issue because simply harboring an opposing opinion does not make one evil. I think what I'm hearing from you is that anyone who supports any non-defensive military conflict is evil. Is that correct?

[Fumesucker]

19. What had Afghanistan done that deserved us making war on them?

Keep in mind that Osama bin Laden is *still* not on the FBI's "ten most wanted" list.

Invading Iraq wasn't just evil, worse, it was *stupid*.

[Buzz Clik]

21. Yeah, you captured my reason for opposing attacking Afghanistan. But, you didn't answer my question.

Do you consider all non-defensive military conflicts inherently evil? I can accept that, but knowing that would help me understand your position.

[Fumesucker]

23. Why do you care about my position?

I can imagine a scenario or scenarios where the non defensive use of military force is not evil, but I'm not sure I've ever seen an example of such in my lifetime.

We both know the reason for the invasions of both Afghanistan and Iraq was revenge (tempered with the ability of the MIC to extract some money from the taxpayers).

Revenge against someone who has not done wrong fits neatly into the category of "evil" in my book.

[Buzz Clik]

25. Ok, this makes more sense. I have a feeling a lot of anti-Russert people share your view.

[JackRiddler]

26. So now you're going to trust Zakaria et al. when they sell you the next atrocity?

Your personal feeling about him, or whether you "forgive" him for willingly prostituting himself to a state planning aggressive war (and I refer specifically not just to his columns, but to his participation in a confidential administration strategy meeting as an adviser on how to sell the war) are really quite irrelevant.

No, it's not a question of forgiveness. The question is whether you can trust such a writer, even if he was a "brilliant analyst"? The day is coming when the government sells its next atrocity, and you may well see him falling in line again.

[Buzz Clik]

27. At the time of the invasion of Iraq, we were all guessing.

We all guessed that Saddam was not a threat. Congress, the Bush administration, and most in the press guessed he was a threat. We were right, they were wrong.

Saying that Zakaria, Russert, Kerry, Clinton, Albright, Edwards, etc etc etc prostituted themselves to "a state planning aggressive war" is pure speculation on your part. It's part of the general notion that the military is evil, war is always unnecessary, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a whore, evil, or both. I'm don't buy any of it.

[JackRiddler]

28. Stunning rationalizations.

Defense through generalities.

Scott Ritter and the UN inspections were not guesses. Iraq was not a threat. The fact that preventive war doctrine (even if Iraq was a threat) is illegal and in violation of the UN charter was not a guess. If you accept preventive war doctrine, then there are many countries that have the right to attack the US right away, since it clearly poses a threat and its WMD programs are confirmed and advertised by its government..

The fact that Congress cannot surrender its power to declare war via a resolution is not a guess.

If after what's come out then and since about the engineering of the propaganda campaign you think even the Bush regime itself was guessing, I don't know what we have to talk about. It's no wonder you hide behind generalities about how anyone who doesn't make excuses for these crimes must think the "military is evil." Why not go the full freeper route and say the critics are all Bush haters?

[Buzz Clik]

29. Give it a rest.

How long had Ritter been out of the country at the time of his projections? How long had UNSCOM been on the ground before the bombs started falling? Ritter suggested that Saddam had no opportunity to gear up his program in the time that he'd been out of country, but he wasn't sure. UNSCOM looked at likely sites, but they didn't know for sure and wanted much more time.

If you accept preventive war doctrine...

I do NOT accept that doctrine at all.

The fact that Congress cannot surrender its power to declare war via a resolution is not a guess.

Congress surrendered NOTHING. They voted to allow hostilities. Were you not alive at that time? Not reading?

If after what's come out then and since about the engineering of the propaganda campaign you think even the Bush regime itself was guessing, I don't know what we have to talk about. It's no wonder you hide behind generalities about how anyone who doesn't make excuses for these crimes must think the "military is evil." Why not go the full freeper route and say the critics are all Bush haters?

What kind of twisted logic led you to this? Did I ever suggest that Bush didn't lie to us? And I hide behind generalities?

You're acting like a jerk simply to inflame this part of the discussion. You've brought nothing to the debate except incorrect, out of context comments that are totally irrelevant. Try addressing my EXACT comments rather than trying to draw me into your insane hyperbole.

[JackRiddler]

30. "You can fool some of the people all of the time..."

[Buzz Clik]

31. "You can lead a horse to water...

but arguing with a fucking idiot on a bulletin board accomplishes nothing."

--- Adolph Hitler

[Fumesucker]

32. Realistically.. How could Iraq have been a threat to the USA?

The difference between the relative military capabilities is ludicrous.

Iraq wouldn't have even shown up on this chart..

[Buzz Clik]

33. I'm going to drop back to an argument that others have posed here and elsewhere:

Why are you reserving your ire for a recently dead guy and people at DU who oppose you? Where is the outrage for the people who really did enable Bush in this completely illegal adventure? It was not necessary for the American people to be sold on invading Iraq; Bush had huge approval ratings and would agree to anything. The journalists and outlets that bought into it may have been complicit (Judith Miller and the New York Times come to mind). But, no one had greater involvement than Congress.

Here's the list of those who voted against the hostilities: Akaka (D-HI), Bingaman (D-NM), Boxer (D-CA), Byrd (D-WV), Chafee (R-RI), Conrad (D-ND), Corzine (D-NJ), Dayton (D-MN), Durbin (D-IL), Feingold (D-WI), Graham (D-FL), Inouye (D-HI), Jeffords (I-VT), Kennedy (D-MA), Leahy (D-VT), Levin (D-MI), Mikulski (D-MD),
Murray (D-WA), Reed (D-RI), Sarbanes (D-MD), Stabenow (D-MI), Wellstone (D-MN), and Wyden (D-OR).

All the rest should have been voted out of office. Why do they remain? Have you campaigned against them as vigorously as you have argued against Russert?

[Fumesucker]

34. How did you get the idea that I'm "reserving my ire"?

I have an adequate sufficiency to go around and even have a few leftovers.

And I'm not angry with anyone on DU that I'm aware of.

[Buzz Clik]

35. I've given you a couple of opportunities to sound off on others, and you've chosen not to.

I have no special information -- just going on your responses.

Are you as upset with Bayh, Biden, Breaux, Cleland, Edwards, Feinstein, Harkin, Kerry, Hollings, and Reid as you are with Russert? Are they evil, too?

[tabasco]

4. By funneling Cheney's propaganda,

Russert made an enemy of the United States of America.

"Cheney's mouthpice." What an awful legacy.

[bigwillq]

6. Tim was one of the many

newspeople that was a cheerleader for the war.

Yes, it wasn't right and we should demand better from the talking heads.

But where was the outrage towards Timmy before? Yeah, there were a few threads here and there, but not this all-out assault on the man now that he died.

People should be happy he's dead because he can't be a cheerleader anymore. But I feel there is no need for the countless number of threads bashing him. Very low class.

Tim wasn't the first, and he won't be the last newsperson of his kind. Blame the networks, not a person who is now dead.

[Fumesucker]

9. All responsibility eventually devolves upon the individual..

At least that is the way I see it..

[bigwillq]

20. People should take responsibility

for their actions, but continually attacking a dead person that can no longer act on his actions, good or bad, does not accomplish anything, especially when that one person is just one of many who was a cheerleader.

Not everything negative that happened in the last eight or 10 or 20 or 30 years is the fault of that one dead person.

[Fumesucker]

22. I don't recall mentioning that the Iraq war was entirely Russert's fault..

When someone dies it is usually taken as an opportunity to review the events of their life..

For Tim Russert, cheerleading a war (most likely for his own personal gain) was one of the most important events of his life (at least it is an event that had vast implications for many people).