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He he he! I think I just owned a bunch of Freeper types

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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 03:21 AM
Original message
He he he! I think I just owned a bunch of Freeper types
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 04:05 AM by krispos42
From this "pajamasmedia" site that seesm to be right-leaning. I posted a response. The side says "Your comment is awaiting moderation", but check it out:
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/remember-those-iraqi-benchmarks-well-guess-what/

This is what I posted:


Wow, AJ really has the Kool-Aid on tap, doesn't he?

Let's see what AJ is talking about.

"The Dems care about one thing: politics"

Ummmm... excuse me, I forget, which party is still calling this occupation a "war"? Which party is still calling Bush a "war president"? Which party has declared an perpetual "war" on terror?

And which party has used "terrah! terrah! terrah! 9/11!" 24/7 to push their entire agenda, like tax cuts for the top 1%, deregulation of industry and banking, globalization, slashing pollution standards, and privatization or politicalization of various government departments?

Hmmm... that's a puzzler, isn't it?

"Siding with your country means supporting the troops and their mission..."

Ooo, AJ, no good, my friend. You see, this sets up conditions where any politician and any political party can instantly quell critisism, accomplish political goals, and rally people to their side simply by starting a war someplace. And that, in turn, guarantees war at every opportunity for any reason.

No, AJ, we need to be thinking patriots, willing to hold those accountable that misuse and abuse the trust we give our leaders in time of war and patriotic fevor. Mindlessly falling in line is the path to endless war.

"We won the war in 2001 and 2003. This is just a peacekeeping/humanitarian mission with minimal casualties."

Conviently forgetting, of course, that we're the ones that broke the peace and caused the humanitarian crisis in the first place.

If I set your house on fire, then dragged your family outside to safety, am I an arsonist or a hero?

"We’re still in Germany and Japan."

And South Korea. And amazingly, when our troops go there they don't have to gun down or blow up men, woman, and children, they don't come home missing internal organs or body parts, and they don't have PTSD or other crippling psychological problems.

A year in Japan, Germany, or South Korea is like spending a year in the States. A year in Iraq is diametrically opposite. Do you really think that if our troops in Korea were still fighting an active insurgency 50 years later we'd still be there?

"These are the men fighting for your right to say such balderdash and you poke fun at them?"

Er, um, no, sorry. They are not fighting for my right to say anything because Iraq could not, ever, invade and occupy America and push their will onto our people. Sorry, Charlie.

The primary purpose of the military is to protect and defend America and Americans from external threats. However the military can be used for all sorts of things and all sorts of goals which may or may not have to do with protecting and defending America and Americans. In this case, they are not, and in fact have not done so since World War Two. They are "serving" their country, but they are not protecting it nor the people inside of it's borders.

"WRONG, as usual. All branches exceeded goals. There are heroes out there who love their country"

Exceeding their lowered recruitment goals, you mean. And unprecedented use of "moral waivers" and big fat giant bribes, er, signing bonuses to fill the ranks.

"Stop quoting from your Poli Sci text. And further, you fool, the MUSLIM countries we are fighting in are the ones who disallow free speech and you have NO interest. So who is the hypocrite?"

And those MUSLIM countried need to progress. To become, you know, progressive. They need to become enlightened and separate church (or mosque) and state and move to some kind of secular republic or parlimentry system.

Invading them is not going to do that. In fact, use or threat of use of military force rallies them to their leaders the same way the specter of terrorism rallies American to the president. It actually discourages change!

Nor is change going to come as long as the fat pipeline of oil money is flooding those countries. As long as they have the easy cash of European, American, and Asian petrodollars flooding it they have absolutely zero incentive to grow their economy, their society, or their government.

Yet another reason to move to an oil-free economy.

"As to the red state yokel comment, racism and sexism is okay in the 2008 USA as long as it is directed at white males, who have no rights, no freedom of speech and no help—even though they built this nation and preserved it for the first 100 years. "

Awww, the poor white males. Well, maybe one day somebody will strike the shackles from your wrists and ankles and you'll be free once again. You'll be able to vote and own property and run for office and maybe the police won't arrest you and beat you quite so often for "driving while white".

EVERYBODY, AJ, built this country. Some built it in chains, some built it without voting or property rights or political representation, but EVERYBODY built it.


And Cletus...

"Liberals like you claim to care about human life, but you don’t seem to care about the wholesale slaughter that would take place if the U.S was to pull out of Iraq and leave it open to Al-Qaeda or Iranian proxies."

Um, then maybe we shouldn't have gone in there in the first place?

Cletus, my friend, pretty much all the goals we are trying to accomplish in Iraq, now, were in fact accomplished before a single US soldier or marine cross the Iraq-Kuwait border. Consider:

-Functioning and fairly effective national, provincian, and local governments, including law enforcement, justice, and education.

-Functioning utility infrastructure, such as electricity, water, sewer, roads, bridges, etc.

-No weapons of mass destruction.

-No capability to make nuclear, biological, or chemical weapons.

-Secular, not religious, government, including woman's rights and alcohol and adult product sales.

-No Al-Qaeda.

-Regional counterbalance to Iran.

-Religiously integrated neighborhoods. No ethnic cleansing or Balkanization.

Okay, Saddam was still in charge. Big whoop.

And if we wanted the oil of Iraq to be on the worldwide market to lower the whopping $28/barrel oil prices (that's about what it was when Bush took office), all we had to do was lift the sanctions!



And my friend apb, we get this from you:
"The past 5 years has been an amazing growth period for the Iraqis, from the fall of the Saddamites to the initial elections, creation of a constitution, building of their self-defense and internal reconciliation."

Yeah, amazing all right. They're on their, what, third constitution? They are so unstable that the voters won't know who's on the ballots until the day before because of the thread of assassination! And we keep replacing prime minsters that don't agree with us.

As to internal reconciliation, it's happening via ethnic cleansing. You do realize that 15% of Iraq's population are refugees, right? And that the Kurdish people are pushing for their own country?

"the Bush doctrine is working in several ways."

*snort* ROFL!

Oh, wait, you're serious. Okay, let's see, confronting terrorism abroad so we don't have to face it here.

Well, Saudi Arabia is taking the massive profits from selling for $140 what costs $15 to pump out of the ground and supporting Al-Qaeda and Sunni insurgents in Iraq. Glad we've sucessfully invaded and occupied them, those theocratic fundamentalist Muslim misogynic aristocrats!

Oh, wait. Well, at least we invaded Pakistan and threw out the unstable nuclear-armed military dictatorship that's hiding Osama Bin Laden!

Oh, wait. Well, at least we invaded a cripped country that hasn't pumped significant amounts of oil in decades and as a result has a much larger percentage of it's oil reserves intact compared to it's busily-pumping neighbors!

Yeah, that's it!

Oh, and what happend to Tony Blair, anyway? Oh, yeah, retired. Imagine that.

And Yokel...

"As Reacharound displayes…liberals only care about themselves. They could give a rats a$$ about Iraqis or anybody else."

Uh-huh. Says a person happily supporting a war and occupation that has caused the deaths of nearly a million Iraqis.

How else do you show your love for your fellow man, your compassionate conservatism? By sending US manufacturing jobs to China? Which, last time I checked, was a tolitarian nuclear-armed Communist country brutally enforcing a one-child policy?

"He has zero perspective of the larger strategic consequence of the effort."

Ummm... says a Bush supporter. And Bush didn't know that there was a difference between Sunni and Shia Islam. Or how it would affect the occupation of Iraq. Or how it would relate to Shia Iran or Sunni Saudi Arabia.

Keep in mind, of course, that if we didn't go in in the first place, we wouldn't have to be worrying about strategic consequences.

I noted above that our strategic goals were already met BEFORE WE INVADED.

"He has zero understanding that what happens NOW matters regardless of how we got here."

I bet he does. But if he doesn't, I do. First off, we get rid of and PUNISH the people that got us into this mess in the first place. That gives us an enormous boost in credibility. And keeps the people that f***ed up in the first place from continuing to f*** up.

Then we have to do one of two things: either institute a draft and war taxes and partially nationalize our defense industry to put a half-million troops in Iraq for a period of at least a decade to restore law and order, or we have to remove ourselves from the country (no bases, even) and pursue economic and political means to achieve get Iraq to reconcile with a minimum of violence. Which, frankly, isn't a whole lot.

Regardless of which we do, we need a real Marshall plan, not this "unaccountable US contractors on fat cost-plus contracts" system of corruption and failure we currently have. Give the Iraqis money to rebuild their cement factories, then buy cement from them and hire local Iraqis to rebuild their country. There can't be peace with 60% unemployment rates. Put those idle hands to work rebuilding, not rebelling!




Let's get on there and kick some ass! :woohoo:

<fixed typo>
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 03:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. Very good!
Although I wonder how long it's going to take for their "moderators" to go through all those words (and the dictionary to check most of them) before they get back to you.


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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Well, they cleared it
So now it's all over the Toobz!
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. LOL! Good! n/t
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. cool, good job
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 10:15 AM by NewJeffCT
I am pretty sure a site called "pajamas media" is RW, too.

I wonder how long your comment will last?

And, I find it always best to be reasonable and level when responding to RW screeds.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. Nicely done! nm
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comtec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:10 AM
Response to Original message
5. I'm amazed it passed
Usually truth, or at least facts, don't seem to be allowed.
gratz! :)
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thanks
Looks like there's just a derth of liberals on the site, that's all.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:15 AM
Response to Original message
6. You forgot to ask them why they aren't serving in Iraq.
... until the 'war on terror' is over. :)




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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Well, one claimed to be a former Marine
And said that his kids were serving in Iraq. Or sending care packages. Or something. Sounds kind of Romney-esque to me.

:shrug:

You know these guys. Part of the 101st "Chairborne" division of the elite Chickenhawks.

I could be a retired Marine on an internet discussion board, too. Just gotta modify my profile...

:-)
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comtec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 04:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Except that we liberals dont feel a need to lie
or puff up our egos with false accomplishments.
I never understood why RWers feel that the must puff up... is their conscience bothering them on some level?
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Dunno, maybe he was
Can't tell from the writings, except that his posts were void ot the usual Freeperish spellings, which was interesting. Is an adequetly smart Freeper any oxymoron?
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Not really
You've got to remember that a good number of them repeated grade levels. It may be that this one's parents' coaxed a tutor into the basement the kid dwelled in and helped him with his spelling.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. *snort*
:rofl:
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Chulanowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. I've noticed that...
Every rightwinger I've dealt with online was a marine. Every single one. Down to the last. I've never seen so much as an army grunt, much less a corps of engineers, merchant marine, or, heaven forbid, a seaman. Apparently the marines are the only branch of the service these folks know about?

And to date all the marines I've met personally have been some of the most liberal people I've ever met. Or at least, anti-conservative. Go fig.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Interesting, isn't it?
:rofl:
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. There is always at least one on all of those boards who claims to be military
If they claim to be active military, remember that they cannot post on internet boards. The US military forbids that as well as myspace and other social net working sites. I have busted a couple keyboard commandos who claimed to be in the middle of the war on terror in Iraq. :)
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. You too... I used to post DoD directives
when I played with them
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
13. I just had to respond again to some Freeper
This con, Tom W., said the following:

The gigantic wad of ego that precedes this response is a peek inside the mind of the voter who supports a candidate as vacuous and bereft as Obama.

The post above is the longest unbroken string of ultra-orthodox, uncompromisingly hackneyed talking points and clichés I’ve ever seen. The remarkable thing about it is that despite its length, it’s entirely content free.

That’s quite an accomplishment, but it mirrors the Messiah’s speeches. All that comes across is smugness, self-congratulation, and teenage snark, along with a perception of current events that’s so out of touch with reality the writer ought to be in a padded room.

Christophers Hitchens enjoys asking people what Obama said after a speech, and they can never tell him.

What gets me is the utter uniformity of expression of liberals. They really are mass-produced people. Stylistically, the endless, chortling masturbation above could have been written by any one of 40 million interchangeable people.

It’s quite depressing that an individual human would happily choose to be a complete, 100 percent-pure stereotype, as indistinguishable from his fellows as a penguin is from the millions of others in the colony.


Jun 18, 2008 - 4:05 am





And this is my reply:


Tom W, you disappoint me.


"The post above is the longest unbroken string of ultra-orthodox, uncompromisingly hackneyed talking points and clichés I’ve ever seen."

The nice thing about facts, Tom, is that they don't change. Unfortunately for people that deny facts and have set their political identities on refuting facts with right-wing spin, the constant refutation of that spin or those talking points with FACTS does get tiring.

Think of it this way. The anti-war people have been saying for six years now that we're in Iraq for the oil. The pro-war people have been changing their statements the entire time. They have WMDs! We're freeing them from Saddam! Establishing democracy! We broke it so now we have to fix it! We can't break the faith with those that have already died! They'll be a genocide if we leave! A new excuse every year. Dance and spin, dance and spin.

We're in Iraq for oil. More specifically, we're in there for Big Oil to get the right to pump something that costs maybe $10-20 to get out of the ground and sell it for market value which is currently about #140. This was the end result of Cheney's super-secret energy meeting.

At that energy meeting several problems were outlined. One, the US is critically dependent on foreign oil. Even though we, personally, use very little Middle Eastern oil, all oil, whether from Canada or Kuwait, is traded on the global market. A shortage of Middle Eastern oil raises everybody's prices. And rather than starting to move away from an oil economy as a priciple of independence and national security, as well as for environmental and health reasons, the neocons decided to secure worldwide access to that oil by militarily dominating the Middle East.

Point two: Iraq was in many ways perfect for domination. It barely has a military. The terrain was great for our tanks, troops, and aircraft: flat with few natural obstacles. Saddam was pretty well hated, so not much international sympathy or national protest.

Point three: Iraq had a LOT of oil. During the Iran-Iraq War, Iraq was not able to pump very much oil. Unlike Iran, Iraq only has one port city on a small sliver of the Persian Gulf, and that was easily within reach of Iranian fighter/bombers. So during that 8-year war, Iraq was pumping far below capacity while it's neighbors were busy pumping away for the world. Then, again after the invasion of Kuwait, UN sanctions also stopped Iraqi oil from being exported, and this continued until 2003. And since then, civil war and infrastructure decay has kept them from pumping very much.

In short, while Iraq's neighbors have been busy pumping away for the last 28 years, Iraq hasn't. At with it's national reserves worth $140 a barrel, there's trillion of dollars of wealth under that sand.

Point four: the fundamentalist Saudis in Saudi Arabia were getting restless. With high unemployment rates and, thanks to the billions of daily profit from selling oil, no reason to really work on economic development, the Saudi population was getting restless with the House of Saud and their "Muslim-in-name-only" princes. Our dear friend and ally Saudi Arabia is the home and the core of radical fundamentalist Islam, and those radicals needed a cause. Overthrowing the secular government in Iraq would draw a lot of attention away from the royalty.

Point five: The Saudies had large budget shortfalls in the early 2000's because they are in large part a welfare state. They needed the price of oil increased to fill the government's coffers and major combat in the Middle East would certainly do that.

So the invasion and occupation of Iraq was seen as a panacea for all these problems. With the added political benefit of Bush being a "war president", of course. Not going to miss a trick like that one! Shamelessly exploiting the patriotic fevor of people like AJ.

So that's why it was done, and we were promised things like $20 a barrel oil, the war will only cost $20 billion and would ultimately pay for itself, etc. And we were promised it was necessary because Saddam had sarin and nukes and antrax and was in bed with Al-Qaeda and killed puppies and left the toilet seat up and wore white after Labor Day...

Blah blah blah.

But Americans would say "Why don't we just lift sanctions so Iraq can sell their oil on the open market again?"

That would be unacceptable, of course. Saddam would profit politically and economically, and Bush and his backers wouldn't. Clearly a crazy idea.


"That’s quite an accomplishment, but it mirrors the Messiah’s speeches. All that comes across is smugness, self-congratulation, and teenage snark, along with a perception of current events that’s so out of touch with reality the writer ought to be in a padded room."

Methinks thouest need to go look in a mirror, my friend. And if you want to see smugness, go look up all the statements the right-wing pundants made in the weeks Commander Codpiece Day. Here's a taste:

"The only people who think this wasn't a victory are Upper Westside liberals, and a few people here in Washington."
(Charles Krauthammer, Inside Washington, WUSA-TV, 4/19/03)

"Why don't the damn Democrats give the president his day? He won today. He did well today."
(MSNBC's Chris Matthews, 4/9/03)

"Now that the war in Iraq is all but over, should the people in Hollywood who opposed the president admit they were wrong?"
(Fox News Channel's Alan Colmes, 4/25/03)

"I doubt that the journalists at the New York Times and NPR or at ABC or at CNN are going to ever admit just how wrong their negative pronouncements were over the past four weeks."
(MSNBC's Joe Scarborough, 4/9/03)

(cough cough)

Here's some more smugness if you can stand looking in the mirror, Tom:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3352887



"What gets me is the utter uniformity of expression of liberals. They really are mass-produced people. Stylistically, the endless, chortling masturbation above could have been written by any one of 40 million interchangeable people."

Again, want to get a mirror so you can see yourself as you masterbate to fantasies of Pax Americana? And how many times can we say "we were right", anyway?

The points that I responded to I notice you're not defending. Once again, it's attack the messenger to distract from the message. Same thing that Simple Scotty McClellen is going through. All you year is "Oh, he's disgruntled", "oh, he's an opportunist", yet despite the fact that the Bush Administration has a copy of the book a month before it hit the shelves no conservative cheerleaders seem to be actually refuting or addressing the claims made in the book.

I guess you'll have to speak up; I can't hear you over the roar of the crickets.


"It’s quite depressing that an individual human would happily choose to be a complete, 100 percent-pure stereotype, as indistinguishable from his fellows as a penguin is from the millions of others in the colony."

Yeah, isn't it a shame that AJ and his kind chose to be part of the diehard 28% instead of the "oh my god I was wrong" 50%?

The resemblence to a gambling addict at a roulette wheel is disturbing, don't you think? "Just a little more time, just a little more money, and it will all be worthwhile!" goes AJ and his kind, while from behind him the ignored liberals go "The only way to win is not to play, the only way to win is not to play".
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. I just put in my $.02
"Your comment is awaiting moderation."
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. He he he
We're de-Freeping them!

:woohoo:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I learned a while ago that you cannot talk to those people
And some will be nazis to their death... just like their counterparts sixty years ago
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. I don't thing Rush or Hannity prepared them for actual facts and logic.
Sadly, they can't see the disaster that is this administration and B*'s war. They are going to cling to their delusions and wallow in their ignorance until they die.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
21. PWNED! One more typo though
"the thread of assassination" unless you were actually referring to this thread as the the thread of assassination!;)
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
22. Hey, you ought to post a link to this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7094545816220336237&q=iron+triangle&ei=q2RZSMyoFI3sqgPWhNHuDg&hl=en">The Iron Triangle

Translation for first minute or so (rest is English):

The war in Iraq is over. The rubble is still smoking while the first dozers are already entering the country. After the coalition forces destroyed Baghdad it is now primarily American companies who are to rebuild Iraq. An interesting point is that these companies usually have people on the payroll who have been politicians. Is this a conflict of interests or a new (global) way of doing business? One of the corporations that work this way is the Carlyle Group. On their payroll are people like : George Bush (Sr.), James Baker III and old premier John Major. The Carlyle Group is a private investment bank which doesn't come to the publics attention very often but it is one of the biggest US investors of the defense industry, telecom, property and financial services. What is the Carlyle Group? Who are the people behind the name? And how much power does Carlyle have?
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