Do you live in a progressive city?

[ColbertWatcher]

Originally, I was going to make this just a regular poll, but soon realized that a progressive city would have more than one of the charateristics. I decided to make this more "essay question" instead of "pick one".

What qualities do you consider a city should have in order to call itself progressive?

Here are a few of my ideas:

cops who bully their own out-of-control members instead of the public

school board members concerned more with education and less with fulfilling a religious agenda

a trustworthy newspaper

a city planning commission that is not in the pocket of developers/corporations

a city council that truly reflects the community's best interests

museums, arts and/or music festivals

GLBT-friendly neighborhoods/businesses/laws

a university

a system that does not target, but instead helps homeless people

a working and satisfactory public transportation system

I live in LA and feel that all things considered, it meets the majority of the above criteria.

How does your city measure up, and which of the descriptors above would you change or disregard and which ones did I miss?

Thank you ahead of time for participating in this conversation.

[Skittles]

1. Dallas has its good points

for example, I think this is a good start on the homeless issue:

http://cbs11tv.com/local/Dallas.Homeless.Center.2.727214.html

The music is OK but I think the musicians are stymied a lot by club politics

The newspaper sucks

An actual Dallas resident would have to speak for the rest ( I live a bit outside)

[ColbertWatcher]

2. Don't tell me about club politics.

LA is the home of Van Halen and pay-to-play, which, ironically enough made Van Halen.

That's just an example; there are plenty of musicians that started in LA.

[crispini]

35. The Dallas city plan commission is increasingly pro-developer.

It's not overwhelmingly so yet, but it's very hard for individual neighborhooods to fight back against the 'developer' machine, especially since it's based in the Park Cities and headed up by Our Esteemed Puppet Mayor, tool of the Dallas Citizens Council. IMO, the thing that is wrong with Dallas is the Park Cities.

[ccharles000]

3. Considering my state (NC) Greensboro is progressive.

[ColbertWatcher]

4. I've never been to Greensboro.

What do you think makes it progressive? (And what makes NC not progressive?)

[ccharles000]

5. ...

I believe we(Greensboro)voted for Kerry in 2004 and other than that I don't really know. We are North Carolinas third biggest city and bigger city's tend to lean Dem. NC is not the worst South east state but we are still southern.

[ColbertWatcher]

6. Were you born there, or did you move there for school?

I asked Wikip*dia for some info on Greensboro and it says they have a Vietnamese community!

Long Beach, CA (part of the mega-opolis that is Los Angeles) has the largest Vietnamese community outside of Vietnam!

Which only means one thing: awesome Vietnamese food!

LOL!

(more about Greensboro, NC)
Oh, and it's also home of the Woolsworth's sit-in (how can we forget about that?)!

Birthplace of O. Henry, any short story festivals?

How's the public transportation out there? Are the newspapers any good?

[ccharles000]

9. I was born here.

We have many schools here.

University of North Carolina at Greensboro
Bennett College for Women
Greensboro College
Guilford College
Guilford Technical Community College
Elon University School of Law
North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University

[ColbertWatcher]

10. Enough about the school, what about the food! LOL!

I must know about the food!

[ccharles000]

11. I live near a taco bell.

[ColbertWatcher]

12. There are no good Vietnamese restaurants? n/t

[taterguy]

14. There's at least one really good Vietnamese restaurant

I've never been and I don't know the name of it but I've heard about it

[ccharles000]

15. I don't eat out that much.

Here is a website where you can find some.

http://local.yahoo.com/NC/Greensboro/Food+Dining/Restaurants/Vietnamese+Restaurants

[pdxmom]

37. Two words - Stamey's Barbecue. Best bbq in the world. We make

trips to Greensboro just to bring home buckets of Stamey's.

[ColbertWatcher]

46. Wow.

I don't know if I'd drive out of town just for food!

Must be good though, gas prices being what they are!

[pdxmom]

52. It really is that good. We have family in High Point, NC and go over to Greensboro,

buy it by the gallons and bring it back and freeze it.

Now, I'm not driving all the way from Portland. My parents live in Virginia, and we go from there. And yes, the trip to Greensboro, just for Stamey's, is well worth the cost. If I could only eat one food for the rest of my life, that would be the one, as long as I could get the occasional side order of their hush puppies.

[supernova]

22. Not just Vietnamese; they are Montagnard

They aided and fought with our soldiers in Vietnam. We owe them big time. They were brought here in the 80s and 90s after surviving in the jungle since the end of the Vietnamese war. One guy I know, says a Spanish peacekeeper found him when they were out on patrol That's how he picked up a little Spanish. :-) We have the biggest population outside of CA. Hee. They refer to I-40 as the "Montagnard Highway." Because they often make the drive to see friends and family. Though, I doubt so much now with gas prices being what they are.

They are a lovely beautiful people and have added immeasurably to Tarheel life. ;-)

"Montagnard" is what the French called them. They call themselves "Dega"

http://www.angelfire.com/dc/dega/

[ColbertWatcher]

26. Thank you, I did not know any of this!

So, what is your opinion of the food there?

[supernova]

36. Fabulous food!

Are you kidding me?!

Traditional Southern cuisine is wonderful to start with: fresh veggies, fruits and other farm products. I have five farmers markets within 25 miles of me, 4 of those within 10 miles.

Since our new Tarheels joined us, the Montagnards, the Vietnamese, and now our Latin neighbors, we've added lots of peppers, cilantro and more French influences (most of the Montagnards who had schooling also speak French of course.).

So, yeah! We have terrific food and wonderful chefs in our restaurants. :D

And uh, the worlds most fabulous civic PA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImfDX4S75pM :rofl:

[ColbertWatcher]

39. What is civic PA? n/t

[supernova]

40. A civic commercial

Just watch it. :D

[ColbertWatcher]

42. I did.

I just thought they were called PSAs (public service announcements).

I have never heard to them referred to as just PAs.

[taterguy]

49. I knew what that was before I clicked on the link

Carrboro Rules!

[loyalsister]

7. objective measures

Public transit bike racks on buses
Active human rights commission
Marijuana decriminalized
Drug court
Progressive renewable energy ordinance
1 large (big 12) University and two colleges

Arts due to University and community encouragement
Good music scene because the college students draw musicians
The politics are generally progressive and the citizens are very active
Planning and zoning allow for plenty of citizen input
Awesome film festival every year

Columbia is a small rural mid Missouri city of barely close to a million people (including students).
This county- which is rural MO- went for Obama!

This is generally known to be Missouri's liberal mecca

[ColbertWatcher]

8. Drat, I knew I forgot something! Environmentally-friendly policies!

Thank you for posting.

[cali]

13. I live in a village of under 300 residents

we have no police department.

no newspaper.

no school.

etc.

we do have a really neat little art gallery that's open in the summer.

[rox63]

16. I live in a progressive state but in one of that state's more conservative cities n/t

[rucky]

17. I've lived in bluest blue and reddest red...

At the municipal level, there's not really that much difference on most of your points, IMO. Not like on the state and national levels.

The most distinct difference is how the city treats its poor people: Conservative cities like to sweep them under the rug. Progressive communities confront it head-on.

[ColbertWatcher]

18. It's an important distinction, though. n/t

[rucky]

19. Big time.

It sets the tone of the whole place.

Study after study says mixed-income neighborhoods are better for a city's overall crime rate, road quality, property values and schools. When the wealthy start hyper-insulating themselves (and their tax money), you have a problem.

[ColbertWatcher]

20. Interesting.

I always thought there was value in being able to afford a place near one's work, but studies confirming that are welcome.

LA is strange when it comes to insulated wealthy.

Since the population is SOO spread out, that isolation is more like pockets within the larger city.

The suburbs are for the most part wealthy with pockets of middle-class neighborhoods.

But then again, LA isn't your normal city!

[rucky]

31. I miss LA. Lived there for a while.

I know everybody thinks either Beverly Hills or South Central when they think of LA.

But there's Hollywood/Echo park, other pockets around downtown, Inland/Pas, Inglewood, South Bay, LBC and the Valley (not quite as much in the hillside communities), and you have areas pretty much anybody could and would want to live - without commuting an hour to work. But when you have extremes in rich/poor communities, they are truly, mind-blowingly extreme - but in pockets, like you say.

Compare to a city like Dayton, where the river and hills physically divide white/wealthy/conservative and black/poor/progressive.

What sucks most about LA is most people can't build equity in a home. No wealth, no long-term stability. Which is why I moved.

[ColbertWatcher]

29. I've been thinking about this post, now I have a question...

...how is it possible for "progressive" and "conservative" cities to be so similar, yet the states that the cities are in be so damned ass-backwards!?

I know that state legislators have different jobs/duties, but where do they come from if not one of these cities?

Does that make sense?

[MagickMuffin]

21. My city's motto is "Proud and Progressive"

however, it is not that PROGRESSIVE. We just voted in '06 to become a wet city. That should tell you how "progressive" we are:rofl: We do have a lot of fundies here:puke: which is why we were dry for so long. My city also has a large Asian community, mostly Vietnamese and Thai. Lots of Asian restaurants and markets.

We have some good parks,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haltom_City%2C_Texas



I live in Tarrant County, which some say is the most red county in the nation. Conservative-Moderate. Ranked 19th, Fort Worth is the largest city by population in the United States that voted for George W. Bush in the 2004 Presidential Election......again:puke:

I did not know this:cry:



I grew up in Fort Worth.

Fort Worth has a lot of great museums, the Kimbell is one of the best. We have a decent Japanese Garden that provides interesting festivals.

Home of the Fort Worth Water Gardens. The movie "Logan's Run" was used it as a location.


This is just a portion of the Gardens.



We have a new rail line that goes from Fort Worth to Dallas.

A large navy/air force base right next to Lake Worth. There are several lakes here, although I don't go to them much anymore.

Downtown Fort Worth used to be the home of "The Caravan of Dreams" I saw Timothy Leary there.

Casa Manana Theater, was one of the first geodesic domes in the country. It is our lil' Broadway. I saw Peter Pan there, when I was a child .

TCU is located here, and there is our community college.


I guess you can read more of the histories at the links provided.

[ColbertWatcher]

24. Thank you--another thing I forgot--Public Space!

That picture of the fountain is neat.

[MagickMuffin]

33. The Water Gardens is a fascinating place to visit ;=D

I haven't been in a while though. It's right next to our Convention Center.


an aerial view


a pool


Another view of the previous pic

I forgot to mention Fort Worth Where the West Begins.


Our Court House


The Tarantula Train, It's a steam engine train that travels out to Grapevine, Texas.


edit: typo

[ColbertWatcher]

34. If I were 30 years younger...

...I would have loved to work as a "location scout" for the movies.

All they do is travel around and find the most amazing places.

I can see why that fountain was used for a movie about the future!

[yellowdogintexas]

25. I would add the new homeless initiative, the move by

the major downtown churches to provide meals, sleep space for homeless families w/ children, our marvelous, fun downtown which is lively and safe (and parking is free after 6 and all weekend
also:
our fine liberal Democratic Mayor Mike Moncrief.
Jim Wright, Speaker of the House of Representatives, retired.
Lon Burnam
First United Methodist Church, First PResbyterian Church, University Christian Church and a large Unitarian Church..leaders in progressive community service for decades.

MayFest
Fort Worth Arts Festival in April
Cinco de Mayo
The Fort Worth Fat Stock Show and Exhibition
The Kimbell
The Amon Carter Museum
The Modern
The Science Museum currently being rebuilt
The CowGirl Hall of Fame
TCU
Texas Wesleyan
University of North TExas Osteopathic College
Tarrant County College
all the tons of equestrian events
The Fort Worth Zoo
The Fort Worth Botanic Gardens
Concerts in the Gardens w/FW Symphony and other great programs Mem day through July 4 every year
FW Opera
Texas Ballet Company
FW Symphony and Youth Symphony
Strong anti gang unit in the FWPD
New housing going up in derelict neighborhoods..this key project targets empty lots and falling apart houses that are mostly in tax sale, pulls funding from many sources to acquire the property and fund a low rate mortgage then build a new home. Neighborhoods that were going under are now coming back to life..the permanent residents are taking back their streets.
A very active Live Theater League with several great theater troupes
The Stockyards tourist area
a great hospital/medical district

[ColbertWatcher]

27. Sounds like a little LA.

We got all that, plus the beaches!

LOL!

It sounds like it would make living in a "Bush state" bearable.

Now, I guess I should add local theater to the list!

[MagickMuffin]

30. Thanks yellowdogintexas, for adding to the list

If you're not busy tonight there is a monthly Obama Meet-up at Pour House. Everyone is welcome to attend. I posted a thread in the Texas Forum, if you're interested.:hi:

I would love to see you there. TammyWammy is going to try and make it.

[yellowdogintexas]

53. I left for Connecticut themorning of the 18th and won't be back

until Sunday. Sorry to miss it

[rucky]

32. Funny, I think of Billy Bob's and the Stockyards.

I forgot how much fun it was to go to Fort Worth from Dallas.

Saw Buddy Guy at the Caravan of Dreams. It's gone now?

[MagickMuffin]

38. The nightclub closed in 2001,

exactly eighteen years to the day after Ornette Coleman Day, and was converted into a restaurant, Reata at Sundance Square. The theater space continued to be operated as such.

I saw Ornette Coleman when it opened. I haven't been there in years. I'm glad Reata is using it for a restaurant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caravan_of_Dreams


Rooftop Grotto

[Snarkturian Clone]

23. My city: Philadelphia

cops who bully their own out-of-control members instead of the public

Hahahahahaahhahahahahah No waaaaaaaaaaaay. Two huge incidents in the past 2 months: A beating that makes Rodney King look like a dance party and the unlawful arrest of a bunch of people because they were meeting to plan a protest against the police.

school board members concerned more with education and less with fulfilling a religious agenda

Our school board is concerned with neither. They are more focused on teacher seniority issues, school safety, and crumbling infrastructure... they are doing a shit job at all three.

a trustworthy newspaper

eh.. maybe.

a city planning commission that is not in the pocket of developers/corporations

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA. Our City Council is especially known for their high level of corruption-- did I mention that they're nearly all democrats?

a city council that truly reflects the community's best interests

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Again, our City Council is a joke. Most are neighborhood bosses/mob connected/kickbacked.

museums, arts and/or music festivals

Definitely have a lot of that. Half the city is a museum. The best ones are the Art Museum, UPenn Museum, and the Mutter Museum.

GLBT-friendly neighborhoods/businesses/laws

Definitely has that.

a university

Yeah, like 80

a system that does not target, but instead helps homeless people

Hard to say. A local school feeds the homeless every week... this has caused homeless from other parts of the country to migrate here, some coming from as far as Atlanta. I wouldn't say the homeless are targeted OR helped by the system here.

a working and satisfactory public transportation system

It works... but is definitely limited. I don't like that they have fare hikes all the time while they have 20 6-figure execs who have no job description and take 5 hour lunches.. I know because I used to work in a store located in their building.


All-in-all, I would say that for a city that has been run by democrats for 50 years, Philadelphia needs to become more progressive. Most of Philadelphia votes democratic but the city itself needs a lot of help. I might go so far as to say that the same party being in power for so long is hurting us.

[JackRiddler]

28. New York City

- cops who bully their own out-of-control members instead of the public

No. Latest example, Sean Bell. But they talk a better game at the top nowadays than other cities, which is to say, the police force gets to pretend it's a social agency. Also, New York is the testing ground for Homeland Security and massive deployment measures.

- school board members concerned more with education and less with fulfilling a religious agenda

Ha ha. An underfunded school system dominated by a huge bureaucracy. As for religious agenda, it exists, but the religion is capitalism and the need to make children into good job-units for a better future.

- a trustworthy newspaper

Not among the majors. New York Times is the organ of the monied class, with an unfortunate reputation for being liberal. Newsday was once liberal, is now simply bankrupt, with sports pages. Post is the money-bleeding flagship of Ruppert Murdoch's attack on America. Daily News is the same reactionary thing as always, but with less influence than ever. Village Voice is a promotional sheet for movies and escort services, with no politics worth the name (mostly covert right-wing stuff). WSJ has always been known for good business reporting, a relatively global view, and an insanely rabid editorial page, and is now owned by Murdoch.

- a city planning commission that is not in the pocket of developers/corporations

Ha ha ha.

- a city council that truly reflects the community's best interests

No, but some of them look that way. The mayors tend to dominate.

- museums, arts and/or music festivals

Pretty impressive offerings. Often very expensive.

- GLBT-friendly neighborhoods/businesses/laws

Yes.

- a university

Lots of them.

- a system that does not target, but instead helps homeless people

Nope.

- a working and satisfactory public transportation system

Working, yes. Satisfactory, no one would say.

[pdxmom]

41. I think the quality that most lends itself to being a progressive city

is the people themselves. Their willingness to think openly, to volunteer for causes, to actively participate in government and in protesting the policies of government, from local to federal.

I think Portland, Oregon is a great example of this. If you have a cause, people show up to support it. A lot of people. Our voter turnout is consistently high. Portlanders consistently turn out to help for the public good.

When the government or the police or the school board let us down, it's the people themselves that take control and highlight the problems, trying to lead to resolution. It's an activist city.

And in addition, we have amazing public transportation, awesome music and arts festivals, tons of greenspace and environmentally aware citizenry and policy, and all of the other things that make a city progressive.

[ColbertWatcher]

43. I'm glad to hear from a Pacific Northwester...

...if anyone knows how to protest, it's you guys!

I remember seeing a picture of a stand-off (of sorts) during a G8 meeting or WTO (I forget which).

On one side of the picture was the police in full riot gear, and on the other were the protesters, wearing the exact same stuff.

They even had helmets and shields.

Gotta love youth!

[Mr. Blonde]

44. I am currently in the process of

moving between two different Oklahoma cities. So I will give my impressions of both. Obviously I'm much more familiar with the one I'm leaving after 5 years.

Stillwater
Cops - it is a college town and they loved nothing more than breaking up parties. I will give the few times they came by over noise at *my* house they were pretty cool. A dickhead here and there, but for the most part OK.

Not sure about the school board, but the board of regents was way more concerned about keeping the good old boy system alive, and keeping their dealings private as much as possible. Not a fan of that.

Probably looked at the city paper all of 3 times in five years. The college paper varied widely in quality, but was always a good crossword wrapper. The Daily Oklahoman is a joke, Tulsa World less so.

The town is faced with massive growth on all sides. I think they sold out to Wal-Mart a little too easily. There are now two super centers one on each side. Personally, I think they should have at least held out for Target. Most of the restaurants are chains. I think that is more of a product of half the population being students. They are more likely to go with what they know, and they know Chilis. Otherwise, I think most of the growth is good for the city. Although I know some people were very upset with the location of a new apt. complex because they didn't think the roads there could handle the increased traffic.

We have a university that the whole town is centered around. The town is actually kind of sad looking when the students are gone.

The music and art scene is growing some, but smaller than a lot of places. The music scene has actually produced a lot of fairly well known names, Garth Brooks for instance, but there are no outright music clubs here.

The school provides public transport all over town. Open to all. The only problem is that it isn't growing as fast as the town.

Tulsa is different and better in some ways and worse in others.

It is much more of a city that stands on its own away from the univeristies in town. My favorite thing is the variety of neighborhoods, which actually allows you to find the place you like instead of the take it or leave it nature of Stillwater.

Arts and Music are much better represented. It has one of only two surviving venues from the Sex Pistols original North American tour. The place is very good about getting bands to come through that are upcoming. They have been on a bit of a dry streak lately though.

It placed next to last in a public transit study (beating Oklahoma City) so that isn't great news.

I will have to fill in more on it later. But I think Tulsa is probably the best hope Oklahoma has for a progressive city. Maybe Norman, but my dedication to OSU prevents me from saying anything nice about the city that houses that other university.

[ColbertWatcher]

45. Most of the restaurants are chains.

Ugh, that's sad. I don't think I could live in a town that didn't have a good Indian restaurant.

I have never lived in a "college town" that empties out during school breaks.

It must be odd.

I didn't consider that the college paper would extend beyond campus, but perhaps for a college town that would make sense.

Your public transportation sounds perfect compared to LA's half-assed attempt.

Thank you for posting, if you've got any I'd love to see pics.

[ccharles000]

47. I think you might be obsessed with food.

[ColbertWatcher]

48. LOL! A little! n/t

[JackRiddler]

50. kick

[KamaAina]

51. Meh.

* cops who bully their own out-of-control members instead of the public

Moving in the right direction. Back when "ice" (crystal meth) was raging, there were a number of incidents, but lately, not so much.

* school board members concerned more with education and less with fulfilling a religious agenda

The public schools here are run at the state level. There are only a couple of religious nuts on the BOE, but the rest seem to be more concerned with preserving jobs, perks, etc., than actual education.

* a trustworthy newspaper

Believe it or not, we're still a two-newspaper town. The Advertiser (Gannett) plus the Star-Bulletin (historically way RW, but mellowing of late) together add up to about one trustworthy newspaper.

a city planning commission that is not in the pocket of developers/corporations

* Fail. If you still get "Hawaii Five-O" reruns, look at the skyline behind Jack Lord in the opening sequence. Then look at a picture of it today.

a city council that truly reflects the community's best interests

* They're spending most of their time these days wrangling over the details of a rail transit system -- that has been on the drawing board in some form since the '70s. Predictably, the members whose districts aren't on the proposed route are the ones holding their breath 'til they turn blue.

museums, arts and/or music festivals

* Academy of Arts is surprisingly good. Those Big Five planter types got around, and brought back treasures for all corners of the world. They also run the Doris Duke estate: spectacular oceanfront setting + important collection of Islamic art. Hawaii International Film Festival is starting to come on, though developers (again) tore down the only theatres in Waikiki, forcing attendees to bus it all the way out by my office for screenings. :eyes:

GLBT-friendly neighborhoods/businesses/laws

* Has had for years. Notables such as Jim Nabors and Richard Chamberlain have settled here for this reason. The major caveat is the referendum against same-sex marriage, which again was statewide, not to mention heavily funded by both the Catholic and Mormon churches, who each have sizable numbers of adherents.

a university

* The main campus of the University of Hawai'i is right above town. Football may have jumped the shark, but UH still teaches more languages than any other U.S. institution save the State Department. You can also get delicious veggie food in the Sustainability Courtyard.

a system that does not target, but instead helps homeless people

* Epic fail. We regularly make the list of "Ten Meanest Cities to the Homeless". The latest: yet another beach sweep, this time on North Shore, plus a brand-new ordinance prohibiting sleeping at bus stops "during bus operating hours" (one route that goes through several key areas runs all night). My cubicle is conveniently located between the two branches of the city's only major shelter (men's out front, women and families in the back).

a working and satisfactory public transportation system

* By mainland standards, yes -- but that says more about the sorry state of transit on the mainland than it does about TheBus. Just now, for instance, I stood at the first stop for five minutes, watched a bus go by already jammed full, waited for five more and just barely squeezed into the back of the next one -- then repeated the process at the transfer point. Door to door, for about a three-mile trip: 51 minutes. :grr: As for the potential of rail transit, see above. :shrug:

To recap: Considering how Blue we are politically, we could be doing a hell of a lot better. The mayor is actually trying to sell off what little affordable housing the city has (most, as with the schools, is state-run). We're actually considering shipping garbage to Washington state, because any new or expanded landfill has fallen victim to NIMBY syndrome. And so on, and son (sigh)...

edit: spelling, phrasing

re-edit: The "city" here actually consists of the entire island of O'ahu: the City & County of Honolulu. Thus, it includes the sprawling suburbs and even a few remaining semi-rural ("country") areas.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. No and I could start with the local fishwrap

[lutefisk]

55. Ha! Far from it!

Bush-Cheney bumper stickers proudly displayed. Sure, there's a university, but there's also a large defense contractor employing many townsfolk (money talks, peace walks).

The atmosphere is stifling and oppressive. If you live in a truly progressive city, value every day...

[Fox Mulder]

56. My city is far from progressive.

It's way too conservative and I hate it.

[fujiyama]

57. Portland OR

I sunburned my balding head head with around 75,000 other elitists at an Obama rally...

The city also has kick ass mass transit, a lot of people that bike around...

Yeah, I really love this city!

[Alexander]

58. Fuck no. Phoenix is a regressive fake cowboy shithole.

The entire Phoenix area, Tempe included, has only two of those things listed - the university was recently ranked the #1 party school in the United States, and the First Fridays art festival in downtown Phoenix (the only thing that ever happens there) isn't much to look at after 1 or 2 visits.

[TheWatcher]

59. Chiming in form Seattle, The Emerald City

Although I have to admit we are NOT as Progressive as we once were, we still are a little oasis in a sea of darkness. :)

I'm someone who falls in the third category of Ladies, Gentlemen, and Those Who Have Yet To Make Up Their Minds, and it's the only City I've ever felt safe in, and the only place I've found that I could call home.

However, and this will get me snarked at by fellow Seattlites, I have been leaning toward migrating to Portland these past couple of years. :)

On Edit to pdxmom: You could not be more astute about Stamey's. I was born and raised in the South East, and I knew a few who did exactly what you guys do. Outside of small town BBQ cook-off's in Texas, best BBQ you will ever have. :hi: