Is this what's if fucking come down to?? (warning: RANT RANT!)

[jojo54]

Something I never thought I would see in my lifetime: Hub and I are in the process of a discussion with our daughter, son-in-law and 3 grandchildren about moving in with us. There may be some people who already do this (and I don't mean Mexico et. al.), or other's who are considering this. But DAMN ! Now mind you, I wouldn't have a problem with this, but it fries my ass that the economy is so screwed up that 2 families, who have their own lives & lifestyles, have to come to grips with the fact that WE JUST CAN'T MAKE IT ON OUR OWN ANYMORE!! Hub and I are better off than my daughter's family, but not by much. This is FUCKING OUTRAGEOUS, that things have gotten this bad in 7 YEARS!! @&+$+#@&%+$&#+@%&!!!!!!

I've been saying it for years now, that Bushco has been trying to make this a 2 class society and sure enough, they are succeeding!! My daughter showed me my oldest grandchild's baby book the other day. He was born in 2001 and take a wild guess what the price of gas was???? Hhhmmmmm???? Any takers? 88 CENTS A GALLON, people. 88 CENTS!! What are YOU paying now? You can thank Bushco for removing certain regulations (almost from day 1 in the W.H.) that prevent oil futures from being projected so high (if someone can explain that a little more clearly, please do so). They don't give a FLYING SHIT about us, just about how fat their own checkbooks are getting. I HOPE THEY ALL CHOKE ON IT!

The bottom line is, EVERYTHING is going up, except our paychecks. More than half of the younger generation can't buy a house because they have too much student loan or credit card debt. Manufacturers' have been running from this country like rats on a sinking ship. I can't imagine what the grocery bill is like for a family of 2,3, or 4 teenage boys. Our local electric company just got a 21% rate hike.....21 PERCENT!! I would love to go back to the 80's and totally remove from our vocabulary, these words: "trickle down effect". I don't know how much more of this "effect" we can take.

DAMN!!! I'm sure that if * thought he could have all poor and middle class living in the streets by 1.20.09, he would have accomplished it. I heard someone on a news broadcast last week (don't remember which) where someone was saying "I don't know why people aren't in the streets crying murder!", and I have to agree. We are going to be paying for this fucking LYING, CONNIVING, CHEATING, WAR MONGER for decades to come, and our children's, children's, children may STILL be reduced to living in the streets because of this asshole & his cronies.

O.K. rant over. I can't say that I feel any better though. Thanks for listening.

[BrklynLib at work]

1. A rant that speaks to and about most of us these days. Well said.

[leftchick]

2. it ain't trickle down it is PISSED ON!

welcome to the 19th century. Gilded Age part II.

:(

[jojo54]

14. Laughing my fucking ass off!!!

But hey, it ain't what I said, it's what Reagan's administration tagged it. Fucking Repukes!!

[formercia]

21. That warm wet feeling on the back of your neck

is the uberclass giving you a practical demonstration of the trickle down theory of economics.

[SammyWinstonJack]

26. Pissing on the little people. Taxes are only for the little people, too.

EAT THE RICH!

[kestrel91316]

56. Indeed. Or rather than eat them, haul them bodily out of their frickin'

gas hog UAVs and march them off to the Bastille for an appointment with this:

[EnviroBat]

156. Does UAV stand for "Un-necessary Asshole Vehicle"?

Cause I'm quite sure the "SUV" stands for

STUPID

Un-NECESSARY

VEHICLE

[reggie the dog]

126. Tell W

not to piss down my back and tell me it's rainin

for those not in the loop, think overseers and slaves or overseers and sharcroppers of any race.

[rambler_american]

136. Supply side economics

If you feed a LOT of grain to the horses there will be some left in the horse shit for the sparrows to pick over on the side of the road.

[aikoaiko]

3. By my way of thinking, more of this sort of thing needs to happen on regular basis.

The annihilation of the extended family living together (or very close by) is one of the saddest things about modern life.

[Warpy]

6. That's the nuttiest thing I've read in a long time

Why do you think it was annihilated? Because it was a pain in the ass!

[leftchick]

15. lol!

:crazy:

[aikoaiko]

34. Well of course it was often a pain in the ass, but so are most things that are good in the long run

;)

[ejpoeta]

48. hey, i love my dad, but to live with him would be hell!!

we get along much better the way things are now..... i see where you are going with the talking about families.... but closeness is not created by proximity to one another. there are those who are close who live very far apart from each other. and then there are those who could live in the same house without a connection.

[Mz Pip]

90. My mom lived with us

for 7 years before she died. It was not easy. She was judgmental and held grudges about stuff that never happened. I supposed it differs from family to family. I'm glad my sons got to know their grandmother, but it was not always pleasant for me. She was fine with the rest of the family but saved all her anger, bitterness and hostility for me.

I do believe it was the right thing to do, but it was not all that idyllic by any stretch of the imagination.

[Leopolds Ghost]

110. Do you prefer ambulatory nursing homes? Its sad that even liberals view grandma flats as undesirable

They are illegal in most parts of the country, forcing Grandma to live in a nursing home instead of with her family. We are indoctrinated to believe this is good, that she ends up just as poor as pre-1930 but with the money going into the pockets of disinterested orderlies.

[Mz Pip]

118. No, not at all

and that is why I did what I did and had her live with us. That doesn't mean the experience was completely positive.

This isn't something that can be judged in terms of black and white. It was not some pleasant "little house on the prairie' scenario where everyone lived in perfect and idyllic harmony.

[aikoaiko]

168. I completely agree -- extended families in one home is often not idyllic

It does come at costs. Its those costs that often push out of home and away from family, but as you say it was with you, an overall good things across the entire family.

It takes a lot of compromise and forgiveness, as well as standing up for yourself.

[NashVegas]

44. The Better to Sell More Furniture With, My Darling

Granted, in the US we simply had the space to do it.

[The2ndWheel]

45. Cheap energy that allowed everyone to be a king or queen

By itself it wouldn't have been done away with. Without the cheap energy, pain in the ass or not, people needed other people.

[undergroundpanther]

51. It was annihilated on purpose

by the government.To control us.If we do not relate to one another and are atomized we become a more malleable population.The net isn't like talking to someone.The net is a substitute social connection so it feels like we communicate but we remain atomized.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
_snip_
they tell us that the econ--that everything's fine, but they never give us a chance to consult our neighbors to see whether, indeed, that's true.

Well, he was on to something. When you consult your neighbors from Elm Street to Spruce Street, you can learn a lot that you don't know alone. Each individual alone may think, I don't like what's happening, but I must be weird, because everything I hear says it's great.' On the other hand, when you consult your neighbors, you find out it's not so great. That's part of the reason to try to isolate people, to atomize them. I mean, we have huge industries in the United States, like the public relations and advertising industries, which are aimed--their leaders tell us, if we want to bother reading it, their ai--their aim is to isolate people, to separate them from one another, to nullify the customs of the ages, to regiment their minds, to keep them from interacting, because interaction's just too dangerous. They may consult each--their neighbors and do things.
http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/19990120.htm
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:_Yqje5E59pgJ:www.sociology.org.uk/as4fm3.doc+department+of+labor+families+atomized&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=30&gl=us

[Warpy]

63. If it had worked that way

it would have held up as a societal norm.

It didn't work, so as soon as we could, we abandoned it.

[undergroundpanther]

94. And this atomized life

it isn't working either..and the way we live now has existed only around 100 years at most .Before that tribes and extended kin networks were the norm that lasted millions of years.Maybe we have been fed alot of SHIT from the "elites",and believed in the shit that we were taught by those who exploit us,so we bought into the atomization crap and hero worshiped Horatio Alger a bit too much? Believed the point it is killing us ...
What belief? This one:

The box is full of salmon, and a man sits atop the box. Long ago this man hired armed guards to keep anyone from eating his fish. The many people who sit next to the empty river starve to death. But they do not die of starvation. They die of a belief. Everyone believes that the man atop the box owns the fish. The soldiers believe it, and they will kill to protect the illusion. The others believe it enough that they are willing to starve. But the truth is that there is a box, there is an emptied river, there is a man sitting atop the box, there are guns, and there are starving people.

http://ranprieur.com/readings/jensenbox.html

Are we willing to die for this belief??? I am not.

[Leopolds Ghost]

113. Most Americans are willing

to die for that belief, and for oil.

Hence ambulatory-care nursing homes to enforce the one parking unit per household principle.

[Leopolds Ghost]

111. What do you mean "we", white man?

Or should I say wealthy Westerner who believes in 3-car garage single family homes for all?

"Extended families living together didn't work, so we abandoned it."

"Traditional farming practices didn't have as high-yield as
oil-based factory farms, so we chose to feed 6 billion people
petroleum-grown produce."

[Leopolds Ghost]

112. Correct. They used to write papers about breaking up poor neighborhoods of the old cities

Breaking up extended families and bulldozing 8-lane boulevards through
the old neighborhoods to assimilate unrestful populations. In the US
it is called "planning and zoning." Did you know granny flats are
illegal in the US? If it's simply what "we" want (mandated parking
per tenant household, no accessory units in single family neighborhoods,
no extended families living together) then why is the alternative illegal?
Chew on that, Warpy.

[reggie the dog]

127. for young people as well

In the tv show Happy Days, Fonzie lived over someones garage. My parents told me that was not at all uncommon in the 60's. Today it is illegal in most places. It is difficult for people in their early twenties to find a place to live.

[Merlot]

27. Not if it's forced to happen by economic circumstances

If they aren't moving closer out of choice, then it's not good,

[aikoaiko]

36. Maybe, Maybe not

I understand its nice to have so much money around that everyone can do and go wherever they want and never have to depend on others for anything. But the reality is that is difficult to maintain such an economic culture.

Moving back home is a drag, but it still may lead to the benefits of extended family.

[Carni]

65. Thank you

It all sounds great in theory, but it's not so much when it's a forced scenario.

[baby_mouse]

58. I agree.

M sisters live much closer to my parents than me. Soon they'll start getting old enough to need looking after and it would be good if we were all there to lend a hand.

[Leopolds Ghost]

114. Old people should move into a home to preserve their children's independence.

They struggled all their lives so their heirs could become
educated and rich enough not to have to care for them in old age.

:sarcasm: <<<<

[baby_mouse]

167. I am GLAD you included that sarcasm tag. NT

[Carni]

64. Oh Christ...do YOU live in such a situation?

If you don't have to then consider yourself lucky...people living together because THEY WANT TO is one thing, doing it because they HAVE TO is quite another.

[aikoaiko]

77. Others in my family have been forced to move home when I was still living home

Yes, such arrangements have their difficulties, but once people adapt the benefits of extended families emerges.

Let's face it, families helping each other out of love or duty is something we sorely need more of.

[raccoon]

71. Disagree. How many people would want to live with their inlaws? nt

[aikoaiko]

78. I would be ok with it because the benefits outweigh the negatives

The idea of my 3 year having much more contact with his grandparents would be wonderful for me.

[pipi_k]

158. Well, what's OK with you

might not be OK with others. So I think it's a bit presumptuous to be telling people what would be "good for" them.

If it's good for you and it works for you, great. But please don't think that your choice of lifestyle would work for everyone, because it wouldn't. In fact, I can think of at least one scenario in which extended family lifestyle would be devastating...

I have a brother in law who is a convicted child molester. He molested two of his own daughters, he molested my daughter, and at least seven or eight other little girls. For him to have his extended family...defenseless grandchildren....living in his home would be criminal beyond belief.

Extended family living isn't always such a great thing.

[aikoaiko]

171. Did the OP say anything about child abusers? No.

Of course, not everyone should live together.

And BTW, wouldn't your brother in law be prohibited from living with any children now?

[MountainLaurel]

79. No kidding

My husband would probably take a bullet to the head before moving in with my folks in West Virginia.

[juno jones]

154. And I would take a bullet

before I moved within any kind of proximity of my youngest sister. Because I would wind up wringing her damn skinhead neck before the week was out...and her sleazy husband's too.


There's a reason I live all the way out here, despite my family wishing I lived closer.

However, I have a large number of friends and we're already talking about how we can live together if it comes to that. you can be a family by choice, or one by circumstance. i'm all for chosen families.

[undergroundpanther]

85. My ex and I lived with my mom

for 5 years. Before we moved in with her..It was HELL trying to make it in the work place.It was traumatic the stress alone was horrific. It drove us both nearly to suicide,trying to live the american nightmare and be "independent".

I learned I cannot cope with this "system" without killing myself or killing the fucking greedy ass boss.I was mad as shit at my ex's boss for his worthless"stock option" bonus bullshit when we needed that bonus money for FOOD.Arrgh it was so fucking sick.

Our finances got screwed up because my ex had a hard time facing the fact the IT market was crashing. And because of my Ex's emotional issues around money he didn't manage it but faked me out that he had. I could manage it but I was slow in the math but before him I was able to stay out of debt..We sold the house just as the housing market began to crash.We barely made it out of there with enough extra cash to pay the IRS a staggering sum in back taxes he neglected to pay.My ex was a manipulative in denial chicken shit and a control freak in la la land, he refused to tell me the truth about our debt. When he finally fessed up to it and gave me the numbers I thought I was gonna pass out.150,000 dollars hoooly shit.

I put my foot down that day,told him he was NOT going to manage jack shit anymore, we sold the house ,paid the debts,and we moved and became basement dwellers at my moms house. I felt like just killing myself during those days or killing him as he lost himself in fantasies. Later,at my moms after we divorced I kicked him out for being the abusive incompetent self hating shit head he was..

Sometimes it is better to admit you can't do it alone and go live with others,because it makes it easier for all parties to survive,and more people around means the burden lightens by it being SHARED...It is better to have the option to choose who you live with,but sometimes doing work and feeding the corporate machine eats up all your free time so forming new friendships languishes.. until the in laws are some of the few people you know and feel you can ask for support.
Sad but true.

Long work hours and struggling to pay fucking bills that rush up to take the extra income by expanding the"lifestyle" you are taught is good, working obscene hours to make ends meet really interferes with making a social life,a connection with community life and it stunts participation in political civic duties.

Fuck the corporate pigs,who have leisure time,to network,form friendships,read, explore,learn, and enrich their lives and pursue happiness at OUR expense.

They have to pay for what they have taken from us someday either in sharing the wealth,and humbling themselves or by their blood being spilled by the starving,traumatized and pissed off masses they exploited.

They have no compunction stealing all the days of our lives,and killing our dreams.

[FirstLight]

124. You SO get it, Panther

:applause:

On so many levels I can't even begin ...it's too late for my sleepy-self. But I am so Over the bushit that I hear myself saying that I am ready to sell it all and just live on the res in my yurt.. I'm so done with this white man's game and the damage it has caused to the planet and all the people, and hearing stories like yours and mine and the reality that we are all struggling through us just too much.

Something's gotta give... soon...
and be ready for the next wave in our ride of the ages!
gather your tribe, which may not even be our biological family, but community is crucial at this point, for sure.

[Leopolds Ghost]

115. That is an Anglo-Protestant meme invented by the "Progressive Efficiency Experts" & ad-men

In the 1910s-1930s.

[reggie the dog]

128. I could, no problem

My inlaws are really cool. They do not bitch about my pot smoking, they let me smoke in their garage/yard. They criticize a bit but in a constructive manner. We hike together. We cook meals to show our cultures to each other. I go mountain biking with the father in law. We chop and stack the winter fire wood together each summer at their mountain home. I get along with them as well as I do my own parents and I am pretty sure that my wife gets on well with my parents too. My mother spent 5 weeks with us and my wife had no problems with it. Last summer we spent 8 weeks with her parents in the mountains, next summer we will pass 5 weeks together on a tropical island. this year we will spend 6 weeks with my parents. If we need to we will live together no problem with us younger folks doing the farming while the older folks keep up the housework. I guess I am a lucky guy.

[Marrah_G]

186. You are totally lucky-- I would love a 5 week vacation!

[TBF]

83. Seriously? Can I send you my MIL? I'm sure not going to live in the same house as that woman.

[krabigirl]

95. Yikes! Couldn't imagine living with my in-laws. I'd rather die, lol.

[jwirr]

163. There I agree with you. I am old enough to have lived in multiple family

homes and neighborhoods for the first 15 years of my life. People would be amazed what benefits there are to working together instead of being alone. However, the homes I lived in were built big enough for families. Today that is not always true and it may hamper the togetherness.

[MountainLaurel]

4. Sing it, sister

:applause:

[Warpy]

5. It's going to get a lot worse before it gets any better

simply because governments, by their very nature, are reactive. That means they won't make the fundamental changes until they are frightened enough of us to do it.

Once we remember where power in this country actually lies, we'll force those comfortable old boys to act in our favor instead of catering to pudgy white men and their corporations.

Until then, there are going to be a lot more families living six to a room.

[Theres-a]

108. Nah

It's going to get worse before it gets worse.:+ I think I read that in the SMW thread. So far,it's true.

[MissHoneychurch]

7. And still

- without taking away from your problems - we are still better off than millions of other people who can't afford to buy rice anymore.

I know exactly what you mean. It isn't much different in Germany where I live. Prices go up all the time, the paycheck stays the same. OK, we got a 2.5% raise this year (first raise in 5 years) but what is that compared to the raises in gas and food prices.

Something is going totally wrong these days. The average person doesn't count shit anymore. A handful of people is making millions while the rest of the world has to figure out how to make it through the month or even how to survive. It ain't right.

[SammyWinstonJack]

29. I read where half of the World's population, live on less than $2/day.

:wow: I feel fortunate, very fortunate indeed!

[pink-o]

146. Yes, the "developing world" doesn't have the monetary or technological assets we do...

...but unlike life in the US, families in other nations are actually self-sustaining. They can grow their own food, instead of having to buy it from the factory farms.

As the years go on, Americans become more and more dependent on a market economy, where no one knows how to do anything for themselves past opening a wallet to hire someone. Personally, I plan to take my tiny stipend of Social Security, my meager 401k and whatever I get from my inheritence and use it to live somewhere warm and where I can pick my dinner off a tree!

Two dollars a day in Bali is a little diff than two dollars a day in the inner-cities of the USA.


(edited for typos)

[undergroundpanther]

96. Lop off the top

Remove the richest from power, drag them out of thier posh homes by thier collars like dogs,throw them in jail,until we can track down thier assets and confiscate their stolen goods from them take it out of the various banks and hidden places they are put,bankrupt those families,force them to change thier lifestyles and do their part and get no more than what others get,and take those immense resources and redistribute them fairly to everyone who is struggling. This is what taxes are supposed to do.But the rich refuse to pay taxes,forgetting they owe US..For their fortunes,so why not take it BACK??.
It was always ours to share,we just been taught lies and believe those lies,and so we suffer for a belief,are you willing to die for that lie? Or are you willing to stop the exploitation? As the pressure builds the rich will be forced to pay,either by sharing the wealth with the people who built their fortunes for them or they will pay with their own lives as blood in the street?
Most people do not tolerate abuse past a certain point,and they will not tolerate financial abuse past a certain level.Unless they truly believe they are helpless..The free market(I would argue the profit system, as well ) is a mass scale financial abuse.
What is financial abuse? It's a type of abuse of a person, like all forms of abuse that are used to dominate and control.

Financial abuse is the abuse of a system, person or group of persons whereby the aggrieved party is unfairly or illegally, severely or even minimally, compromised in his or her life savings or income.
http://financialabuse.org/
http://www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/Types/faces.htm

The belief that is killing us
http://ranprieur.com/readings/jensenbox.html

[SpiralHawk]

8. Meanwhile, republicon war & oil corps continue to rake in Massive Profits

What's wrong with this picture?

[KillCapitalism]

9. This is how my Grandmother used to describe the Depression.

She said whole extended families would all move into one house or farm and pool their resources because it was easier to get by that way. That tells you how bad things are when people are doing this again. Your family isn't the only out there doing this.

[agentS]

30. Bushvilles

Remember that TV spot out of SoCal, with the people living out of their cars in a parking lot?
Retirees and middle class folk living out they cars in SoCal because housing is too expensive.
The Hoovervilles of 2008; Bushvilles.

[ejpoeta]

49. i wanted to update the song from annie

where it says 'we'd like to thank you herbert hoover for really showing us the way..." and it goes on.

[InkAddict]

43. Moving in w/kids by the end of the month. n/t

[Viva_La_Revolution]

151. Yep... My sons and I moved in with my Gram and Dad two months ago.

So far we haven't killed each other.. quite the opposite actually. :)

[LaurenG]

10. My mother and disabled sister moved in with my husband and I last August

My mom is nearly 85 and couldn't eat and pay for the upkeep of her house and utilities etc. She still hasn't sold her house either. I know how it is and the adjustments were huge but it got much better after the 6 month mark. Hang in there. :hug:

[Xenotime]

11. This is why we can't let McSame get into office. Or there will be more of this suffering.

[Two Americas]

172. if only...

If only that were true. No doubt it is marginally worse in some ways and for some people with Republicans in power, and certainly they purely and very effectively represent the needs and desires of the wealthy and powerful few, but that is only what they are supposed to do, what they were hired to do. No surprises there. Their recent success is not because they changed their plans or did a better job at putting them into effect, but rather because of the almost complete absence of any serious opposition. "Better than McCain" does not constitute serious opposition.

[peace13]

12. And the press writes that the American people are too Gloomy

which causes us to not to want to spend our money which in tern makes the economy suffer. These dolts have no idea what is happening out here. If you do open your home be sure and set the rules up front. Share the work and the cost. Stake out private space for each 'family'. When we had to 'double' up we shared the cooking and the expense, we alternated cooking and shared in clean up. We paid the utilities to help out. I send love and energy your way. For us it was a wild ride but we do have some good memories (and laughs) from the expedience. Peace, Kim

[jojo54]

22. Thank you, peace13.

Yes, ground rules will have to be set. I'm not trying to brag about our house; it isn't new or beautiful, but there is a lot of room for private space.

This may or may not come to pass, but it will certainly help them pay off their debt and help hub & I put more into retirement funds. Thanks for your encouragement.

[bdamomma]

53. the media has to point their fingers at somebody

and it won't be their corporate owners *'ie, so it will be at us, and they will use us as their scapegoats, saying such stupid things like "Americans are angry", they know they cannot relate to us, and by our numbers we could cause a threat to them, we may not think that but we are a threat to them.

[undergroundpanther]

169. Maybe it's reality smacking them upside the head?

Maybe they are realizing they have been chumps? Maybe the just world lies they pinned their fantasies on isn't real? Maybe they are realizing the depths of the systematic abuse of people from cradle to grave is what is required to condition them to accept what happens when you have an unequal society such as ours.Hmm?

[MedleyMisty]

13. One thing that jumped out at me

I'm 27 and my husband will be 27 next month. We started things moving on buying our first (and hopefully only) house yesterday - it's brick, was built in 1954, has two bedrooms and one bath, is a bit over 1000 square feet, and is in a well kept up good working class diverse neighborhood and within walking distance of our favorite local restaurant - basically our dream house. The asking price is $79,900.

We both had a horrible first semester in college and never went back to a four year school - I got a two year degree and my husband tried to go to nursing school but got burnt out.

So we don't have student loans and although we do have a fair bit on a credit card, we pay a good amount every month and my husband has the credit to qualify for a 15 year mortgage with no closing costs (and we're definitely not even touching any sort of adjustable rate thing).

Anyway - I totally agree with the rant. Just wanted to reflect on how not going to college is part of the reason why we're able to think about buying a house.

[MissB]

109. Congrats!

[panhead1961]

16. We subsidize their rent - Did the live together thing

Really tough unless you have a huge house and enough room to still have some privacy. I think communes are going to start. At least multiple families living on our property. We are shooting for 10 acres with three houses. I love the idea of having the kids and grandkids close enough to see all the time but far enough to sleep in and watch adult programming.

[jojo54]

25. Totally agree!

The commune idea will flourish, I believe.

Call me nuts, but I also think that personal farms/gardens will also be revitalized.

[panhead1961]

73. Your nuts

[Daemonaquila]

141. And in all sorts of other configurations -

Communes won't just be people sharing the same land. Among folks I know, already 3 families who live within a mile of each other are planning how to share the fruits of their farms (one's a hydroponics guru, another raises food animals), equipment, skills, etc. Whether people are technically living on one property or in several, coalitions are building and the underground economy is growing.

[OwnedByFerrets]

17. Amerika....Living on Lies since Raygun....

I feel your pain and your anger and agree 100%.

www.wearableartnow.com

[OneGrassRoot]

18. Yep, and I'm ranting about it myself...

to the point of trying to start a movement...lol. For "regular," even normally non-political types to pay attention. The phrase "downscale Americans" being used by the media starting back in March sent me over the edge.

I'm not a techie at all, so it may take a few days to get the forum going, but I have enough friends who are pissed that they are entertaining the idea of a Revolution - A DOWNSCALE AMERICAN REVOLUTION! lol

I'm genuinely sorry for the stress your family is under. It is indeed going to get worse before it gets better. Life is very, very stressful for so many right now. The thought of 4% of this country getting wealthier and wealthier at the expense of millions of others is appalling. It's mortifying, actually.


www.downscaleamericans.org

[windoe]

38. I bookmarked this link-Thank you!!

What a great idea to start a forum. It is important to share all the good ideas for transitioning to a new lifestyle. People who are further along in the process can show how they made it. It is sooo stressful to be going through this, to have company and ideas really helps.
Thank you for a wonderful idea, transform the emotions of anger and fear and frustration into creative energy, and make a success of it .

<<THE BEST REVENGE IS TO ULTIMATELY SUCCEED ON OUR OWN>>


Peace.

[Two Americas]

93. "downscale" Americans unite!

From your site..

The U.S. Constitution deems that all citizens are equal, the and thatgovernment and its officials work for us, WE THE PEOPLE, two important things to keep in mind.

Back in March of this year I was listening to one of the 24/7 cable TV shows where they were discussing the presidential campaigns. They were talking about the various demographics within the US and how these demographics tend to vote. When they started discussing working-class voters, previously referred to as "blue-collar" workers, they used the phrase "downscale Americans." I believe I personally first heard those words uttered by David Brooks of MSNBC in the course of his report, but all the networks and print media have used that phrase in this election cycle.

I thought, "No way...he didn't just say that!" Sure enough, he did. As I said, all the networks and print media have used the phrase during this election cycle. They weren't talking about citizens who had lost weight or who had cut back on their spending or downsized their homes. They were talking about a CLASS of Americans.

I found this extremely offensive. Correction: pardon the profanity, but it really, really pissed me off. I felt the fact that they would use such an obviously condescending, negative term to refer to hardworking Americans was beyond unacceptable, it was infuriating. I know, I know, they are "simply referring to those voters on the lower end of the socioeconomic scale with corresponding lack of education." BULLSHIT.


DOWNSCALE AMERICANS UNITE!

Let's show them we matter, that we have a voice and - yes, this is important - WE VOTE!!! There is power in numbers. If nothing else, it strengthens each of us as individuals to see that we're not alone and that we have more in common with fellow Americans than we realized.

Let's show them we're paying attention. That little development could scare the powers that be more than anything. ;)

This is just the start. Together let's figure out how, beyond voting, we can claim our collective voice and make it heard once again.

[OneGrassRoot]

103. Hey, Two Americas! :)

:hi:

[Two Americas]

106. hey time

Good to see you.

[juno jones]

155. Wonder what they'd make of our newest waitress

Master's in English, BA in journalism...

[smiley_glad_hands]

19. Where are you at that the price of gas was 88 cents/gallon in 2001?

[jojo54]

28. South Jersey.

The national average was $1.25 in December '01 and there's usually a big difference between the coasts. I don't know where you are, but the national average right now is about $4.35 and we're about $3.90 - 3.98, depending on the gas station.

[Sal Minella]

41. True for Iowa, too, then -- 16 gallons for $15 (something like that) then --

[reggie the dog]

129. Alabama? Indiana?

Just before the prices started to jump up probably.

[lame54]

20. WE JUST CAN'T MAKE IT ON OUR OWN ANYMORE!!...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTW0y6kazWM

[Arctic Dave]

24. This song defines what is going wrong with our country. n/t

[jojo54]

31. I've seen that one before, and it always makes me cry.

Especially the shot of the sign in front of the store that's going out of business, and the sign says "We failed".

[helderheid]

32. same

[raccoon]

69. Great song! THAT should be the national anthem. :cry: nt

[Ian_rd]

23. It's no coincidence that as wages fall and jobs are lost, the number of millionaires has increased

It's a shift in wealth. It's by design by people who consider it the way things should be.

[OneGrassRoot]

33. All part of the plan, and they've succeeded...

it's appalling. And infuriating.

You website is very nice, BTW. :hi:

[Ian_rd]

50. Thanks! :)

[bdamomma]

55. they succeeded???

there is no way I will surrender to these filthy pigs, or adapt to what they have done to the country. No Way.

[OneGrassRoot]

59. Oh, I'm with you on that....I meant they have succeeded in creating....

horrendous conditions, trying to tear peoples' lives apart, distracting people from their crimes as they (we) simply try to survive.

Yes, I'm with you. I hope that instead of feeling beaten, enough people will rise up and fight back. It is time for a revolution indeed.

[bdamomma]

61. I am sure if Osama is still alive he has succeeded.

Osama had made a big deal about taking down Russia during the Afghanistan war with the Mujahideen, where they are still Russian tanks sitting at the border as how they took down Russia, and the same thing is happening with the US.

[windoe]

35. Money never disappears, it merely changes hands.

I am on the brink of starting over at 51, and it terrifies me. I must relocate, find work and am taking a big loss. Like most of my birth family, living check to check, just maintaining for years, we are all afraid now of our future and I am one of the youngest sibs. My friends are also afraid of losing everything they worked for.
I think the comprehensive damage done to this country will force a change that will occur from the bottom to the top. Instead of trickle down economics it will be a growth of something new. We have had the soil turned under our feet and we are ungrounded right now, but if we plant the right seeds and nurture them, perhaps we can grow us a new life.
I wish everyone well, and hope somehow we all can find peace in the eye of the storm that is the change to come.

[petwlkr]

37. "Good night John Boy"!

The saddest part of this whole scenario is that when all is said and down it is going to turn out that you and your family are some of the "lucky ones". There are going to be a lot of us out there with no family or support system that we can turn to in order to combine resources. What happens to us?

[Greyhound]

39. K & R.

[madrchsod]

40. a wise man many years ago

in a land not unlike ours today said...."all we have to fear,is fear itself"

[The2ndWheel]

42. Do you want national healthcare?

It's the same idea. Many people with their own lives and lifestyles having to help everyone else with medical costs. Why? Because some/most can't pay for it on their own anymore.

It's pretty funny. We want everything, but don't want to give anything up. We want stronger communities, but the ability to move wherever, whenever, for whatever reason. We want cheap energy, but wish more people would conserve. We hate outsourcing, but love instant global communication. We want the economy to be so great that everyone can do whatever they want and not need anyone to help, but we need people to care about each other. Little wonder why we're all nuts.

[undergroundpanther]

52. we want to be islands

when someone needs us and to be communities when we need someone.
It's hypocrisy.Everything is inverted and it cannot stay like this.

We act crazy because our
"leaders" are who created and who benefit from our controlled insanity.

[raccoon]

70. It's to the benefit of the corporations that we be islands. We spend more money that way,

doncha know.

[reggie the dog]

130. I am a rock, I am an island

and an island feels no pain........

[undergroundpanther]

135. And an island

never cries...




I've built walls,
A fortress deep and mighty,
That none may penetrate.
I have no need of friendship; friendship causes pain.
Its laughter and its loving I disdain.
I am a rock,
I am an island....

Snip..

Don't talk of love,
But Ive heard the words before;
Its sleeping in my memory.
I wont disturb the slumber of feelings that have died.
If I never loved I never would have cried.
I am a rock,
I am an island.

And a rock feels no pain;
And an island never cries.

Is this what we have become,rocks? Islands?

[maryf]

177. No man is an island

Who casts not up his eye to the sun when it rises? but who takes off his eye from a comet when that breaks out? Who bends not his ear to any bell which upon any occasion rings? but who can remove it from that bell which is passing a piece of himself out of this world?


No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee. John Donne

[Two Americas]

76. not our fault

I always object to the people in general being blamed for social problems. Not saying that this is your point necessarily.

I think the people have suffered enough, and have given up enough.

I do not think that we "cannot afford" to take care of the people. I do not believe that people need reforming, or are flawed and causing their own problems. I don't agree that people need to give up any more than they already have, nor do I think they are bringing their own problems upon themselves. Better off and upscale people have always blamed the masses for their own suffering, clucking their tongues and shaking their heads at how stupid people are. It is aristocratic and arrogant, as well as politically reactionary to blame the people.

[undergroundpanther]

82. Blaming the people is pointless

the stupid just world bullshit rears it's repulsive head AGAIN.

It's not the individuals fault if they cannot make ends meet in a market and system stacked against them. It's not their fault they try and try and fail,this is due to CORRUPTION deeply entrenched in this culture. This lying,cold,market driven, manipulating horrific game of corruption and the tolerance of said corruption that has stealthily wounded people over the spans of centuries..

So what if people are not perfectly frugal,the stress and pressures are driving many insane many are being hurt by it too.How can some sit there and scapegoat someone who if you were not so fortunate you would be in the same sinking ship this entire civilization gone bad is falling into!! The ones who see it coming know what their enemies are,more or less...

I myself I know I am beyond fucked.I don't see any way to survive the coming crisis upon crisis.. I fear I will go soon because of my issues..( Stuff like being a queer gender outlaw,fighting for rights for the"mentally ill in a non-nami fashion,being radical as hell, being a political dissident, that openly hates authorityand corruption and inequality and my having PSTD,and the type of skills I have socially, I am a "threat" to power when I have to use them, to rouse people to inspire, to fight,to clarify,to think and be effective.I am not always on but when I am, it makes waves..And the fact I don't have loyalty to anyone but to help the suffering around me,an inner locus of control I refuse to hand over,I know If I stood out politically and choose to do it I know they'd target my ass for elimination because I really do hate them(the corrupted elites and their corporations and such shit..)

Parading ones financial self righteousness and success before the people struggling is not only tacky, it's disgustingly pointless these days,before now it was damn disgusting,now it borders on plain old cruelty.
In case you have no clue what that destructive feel good mentality that infests fortunate people IS,that I am referring to.. go HERE:
http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/iie/v3n2/justworld.html

I have enough raw hate inside reserved for the so called elites and what they have done to exploit people,and life and resources on this planet.I admit it I wish every one of these arrogant scheming fuckers to be robbed of everything they have stolen,and to die and their families to be shamed by future generations so appalled by their so called legacy forever.I want the elites and authoritarians and their ilk silenced,broke,hated and powerless.And I feel not one iota of guilt for wanting their empire torn apart.

I want the people to learn why to never trust or tolerate people like the so called elites to have a place of power in their societies ever again.May the pyramid structure of current culture crash down forever,and become as rubble under the feet of empowered sharing,wiser and caring people.

[Two Americas]

91. beautiful

You expressed my view on this much better than I could.


From the article referenced by your link:

<snip>

The verdict of the jurors in the Fort Lauderdale rape trial may have been influenced by a widespread tendency to believe that victims of misfortune deserve what happens to them. The need to see victims as the recipients of their just deserts can be explained by what psychologists call the Just World Hypothesis. According to the hypothesis, people have a strong desire or need to believe that the world is an orderly, predictable, and just place, where people get what they deserve. Such a belief plays an important function in our lives since in order to plan our lives or achieve our goals we need to assume that our actions will have predictable consequences. Moreover, when we encounter evidence suggesting that the world is not just, we quickly act to restore justice by helping the victim or we persuade ourselves that no injustice has occurred. We either lend assistance or we decide that the rape victim must have asked for it, the homeless person is simply lazy, the fallen star must be an adulterer. These attitudes are continually reinforced in the ubiquitous fairy tales, fables, comic books, cop shows and other morality tales of our culture, in which good is always rewarded and evil punished.

Melvin Lerner, a social psychologist, has conducted a series of experiments to test this hypothesis. In an impressive body of research, he documents people's eagerness to convince themselves that beneficiaries deserve their benefits and victims their suffering. In a 1965 study, Lerner reported that subjects who were told that a fellow student had won a cash prize in a lottery tended to believe that the student worked harder than another student who lost the lottery. In another study a year later, Lerner and a colleague videotaped a simulated "learning" experiment in which it appeared that the "participants" were subjected to electric shocks. Lerner found that subjects who observed the videotapes tended to form much lower opinions of these "victimized" participants when there was no possibility of the victim finding relief from the ordeal, or when the victim took on the role of "martyr" by voluntarily remaining in the experiment despite the apparent unpleasantness of the experience. Lerner concluded that "the sight of an innocent person suffering without possibility of reward or compensation motivated people to devalue the attractiveness of the victim in order to bring about a more appropriate fit between her fate and her character."

If the belief in a just world simply resulted in humans feeling more comfortable with the universe and its capriciousness, it would not be a matter of great concern for ethicists or social scientists. But Lerner's Just World Hypothesis, if correct, has significant social implications. The belief in a just world may undermine a commitment to justice.

<snip>

Ironically, then, the belief in a just world may take the place of a genuine commitment to justice. For some people, it is simply easier to assume that forces beyond their control mete out justice. When that occurs, the result may be the abdication of personal responsibility, acquiescence in the face of suffering and misfortune, and indifference towards injustice. Taken to the extreme, indifference can result in the institutionalization of injustice. Still, the need to believe that the world is just can also be a positive force. The altruism of volunteers and of heroes who risk their lives to help strangers in need is a result of people trying to restore justice to insure that the world remains just. As Melvin Lerner writes, "We have persuasive evidence that people are strongly motivated by the desire to eliminate suffering of innocent victims."

[windoe]

105. This sounds like a sociopathic rationalization

that people deserve to suffer from misfortune, and the antithesis of democracy as I see it.

[undergroundpanther]

170. Look at any book

like a course in miracles,(new age)who stole my cheese(business pep talk),the bible,(old version of just world theory) or look at any number of cognitive behavior therapies so popular now the state subsidizes that shit under evidence based treatment...They are all based on pushing positive thinking,denying your own experinces,pretending you are in control of your suffering,yadda yadda. that is a few ways the just world theory is being pushed upon us. This just world crap is EXACTLY what the psyops assholes are trying to get as many people as possible people to believe in.Oprah is a tool as she wallows in the delusions fed her by the secret,dr.OZ and Dr.Phil.. and because she is out of touch with the way reality is really unjust, she behave like that.

Slogans like,You create your own reality,you are in control, you are captain of your own destiny,you chose to suffer in life because you enrolled in a cosmic torture school before you were born,and you signed up for this shit it's all YOUR fault you can't believe the world is good and is kind and listens to your will and obeys it..it is the path of the Bodhisattva,on and and on,this shit echoes in religion and pop psych,the just world theory is repackaged again and again and forced into our minds as if it was true and if you are a dissident who says it's bullshit, you get diagnosed with depression..and fed happy pills to scramble your thoughts, or make them thick as mud so you can't express anything seething inside..besides once you are labeled a loon no one takes crazy people's ranting seriously right..AArrgh..

[Two Americas]

176. very good

You make the point very well. This is important because what you are describing is exactly the way that liberals and progressives are brought to supporting the Reagan era "personal responsibility" and "rugged individualism bootstrap" libertarian ideas, which enable and defend bullies and predators and destroy community, and eventually destroy our humanity. It is important that we see how these ideas that liberals are embracing are nothing more or less than warmed over libertarianism, because liberalism and the party are represented as the ONLY possible alternative to the right wingers and their predatory clients. If the only possible alternative that is permitted for consideration is in fact no alternative at all, then we are prevented from forming any serious opposition, from gathering together in any communities of mutual defense and support, not by "Bush" or the Republicans, but by our supposed friends. That very effectively prevents us from defending ourselves and each other.

[maryf]

178. What saddens me is the twisting that has gone on

with many of the world's phlisophies and religions which should be being used as cases in point about how not to be selfish, to practice self-forgetfulness. A model to teach others to stop stepping on others to get ahead, to stop this acquisitive society from eating itself to death.

Real brief case in point, is the story of Quan Yin the female Bodhisattva, a prime example of the true and often lost meaning of the term. She stays outside the gates of heaven doling out mercy. She could go through the gates but cannot stand to leave those suffering behind, could not bear to be in heaven without knowing all others were there as well. How many with her pretty statues truly know that she is the epitome of selflessness...of putting all others in front of herself...

[Phillycat]

166. About 88% of the people who post on this site won't understand your post.

Or they'll think you're attacking them. But you are absolutely right.

[progressoid]

46. I know a number of people in your situation.

We are going backwards economically.

[windoe]

47. The antidote to fear is love

and the way to survive is to reach out to complete strangers, and support each other. The antidote for the paranoid, suspicious, racist, elitist worldview is its exact opposite, which is opening up and giving respect to strangers.

My profession is in healthcare, and every day I met 25-30 complete strangers for most of my life, and I can tell you every single person fascinates me, everyone has a story, wisdom, even when they are not clean that day, or angry, or really sick and in pain. I can remember the exceptions, the truly destructive dangerous personalities, who were few and far between. I have worked in New Orleans, FL, AK, DC & MD, rural and city, state and private facilities. What I have learned is, every time, not to judge people by the way they they first appear, take a second look.

What we are coming out of is the endgame of an administration that was EXCLUSIVE. The separation created between people has led to the downfall of this country. Diversity is actually strength, the powers that be know that, they will encourage us to fight amongst ourselves. But we have the wisdom of practically all the races in this country, all we need to do is access this wisdom and put it to work, and create more INCLUSIVE communities that benefit all.

In many cultures it is a tradition to give travelers (or nomads) the highest respect, and a place is saved at the table for them, and a place is saved in the house for them.

Before I get flamed for daring to suggest the dangerousness of opening up to strangers, or the stupidity of it--yes, we will also need to hone our skills at determining psychopathic, dangerous or dishonest individuals from just people in need.

[undergroundpanther]

54. So true

Before I get flamed for daring to suggest the dangerousness of opening up to strangers, or the stupidity of it--yes, we will also need to hone our skills at determining psychopathic, dangerous or dishonest individuals from just people in need.

And I have been trying my damnedest to educate people on DU on just these topics!!

If you can detect dangerous people from non-dangerous ones,and accept who are just different or stressed out, or whatever and discern them it will go a long way in healing the damage done and keeping the toxic personalities out of the community which they would destroy if permitted acceptance.

I would give anything to be in a diverse community of people whom I cared about and they cared about me and we were all in it together.A tribe so to speak.

[windoe]

67. Im looking for my tribe too.

:hi:

[Bluerthanblue]

60. This is beautifully

said- and very pertinent to all of us-

Please consider posting this as an OP-

You've expressed a really important perspective.

More people should hear this-

thank you!

:hi:

peace~

[maryf]

179. So flame me...

to help a stranger who ends up being a psycopath, dishonest, whatever, is actually better than not helping the one who may appear that way; many who are homeless, very poor, burnt out from trying, will appear to be perhaps dangerous, and we are "trained" to see them as such. I hope that I would deny no one on the risk that they may be false to their appearance. There are far more in trouble than faking it, I believe.

Your post is beautiful except for that disclaimer, btw, thank you!!

[Bluerthanblue]

57. I agree with much of what you are saying- BUT

as for living in 'extended' family settings- I personally think that is a good, responsible move BACK towards a society where people have value and meaning.-

Having said that, we should be able to do that out of choice and as a conscious decision rather than desperation. And it also highlights the desperate situation those who have no family to turn to, face-

The haves have increased their abundance of "everything" under this administration, while the have nots have grown in number but continued to fall short of what is needed to just get by.

It cannot continue on like this forever-

I like you, want so much better for my children and grandchildren- for all of us.

peace~

[bdamomma]

62. not to be silly here:

I think we should all watch V again.

[Bluenorthwest]

162. V is good...

And I'm not being silly either when I recommend 'They Live' as well as or instead of V for this situation. They live, we sleep.

[windoe]

66. Peace to everybody here

:grouphug: I am looking for another link where I want to thank someone who suggested RV living, due to my VERY limited funds this seems to be the BEST option for me, and the first link I got on was selling them in the state I want to go to!!! (I will make sure its not a formaldehyde version)
Oh I am in the middle of it all, packing and planning

I hope I can maintain my computer connection, internet life is so vital especially since I watch no TeeVee. So many really cool people right here on DU!!

I have fantasized about a V moment too but got flamed right away when I posted it.

Good luck jojo54 -moving in with my family would make me insane right now (they are taking care of themselves)-remember you are not alone, and you can never predict the future, perhaps a year from now things will look very different.

[Buns_of_Fire]

72. If you find that link, please let me (us) know.

I've long been a proponent of RV living, and it's actually been my dream for several years now. So long as your space requirements are fairly small, I think it can be a very rewarding lifestyle. Obviously, flitting from coast to coast is pretty cost-prohibitive what with gas like it is, but, other than that, I believe it has a smaller "energy footprint" than even a small apartment.

Best of luck in your search. Times are tough. It's time to be tougher. :toast:

[windoe]

75. Here it is:

http//www.pendatarvcenter.com/

Just want to add I am a total rookie and am just starting to research this, and would welcome any info, instinct or advice from someone who has been there!! I can live small, but have to work out the $$$ and moving strategy so I don't make a really big error.

Good luck with your dream, we all have to dream a good one for ourselves~~

:hi:

[Buns_of_Fire]

84. Thank you. I've been toying around with the idea of a website...

that encompasses everything I've learned in the last several years of being ye-gods-yet-another rookie, trying my damnedest to learn everything I can and break free (don't be surprised if you get a PM from me in the next day or two, with links to everything, including what you never wanted to know about the art of dumping a black water tank!* :-) ).

Who knows, we may be the next generation of the Joad family.

Well, it probably isn't what my parents expected of me, but I'll take what I can get nowadays. :shrug:


* Which I've done a few times, and it really isn't all that bad -- if you're careful!!! (Mike Rowe would be proud!)

[windoe]

88. Buns_of _Fire now that

makes me laugh. to the tune of ring o fire. Oh links would be great. I used to live in AK and knew a lot of survivalist type people. I was living the simple life, so now it is returning to that. Good thing I love adventure!! Would love to hear from you, thanks :hi:

[undergroundpanther]

92. Rving requires gas This option does not..

The Vardo a.k.a Gypsy wagons...

http://www.enslin.com/rae/gypsy/wagon.htm
http://www.enslin.com/rae/gypsy/documentation.htm
Add solar to it and it might be a real living option.
A truck converted into a wagon..
http://www.mrsharkey.com/busbarn/kevin/kevin.htm
http://www.woodcentral.com/shots/shot644.shtml

And since I do tarot cards it is an interesting idea if I can't afford a house.

I can hunt sew and do alot of "primitivist" skills..I might fare ok this way,however I know I would not be able to resist making my Vardo cat shaped carving it and making it artistic,full of funky..Maybe glow in the dark painted ghost panthers invisible during daylight, to scare away ??..*smirk*

[windoe]

101. check your pm

:)

[proud patriot]

68. My step dad judges my husband and I harshly

My husband works three jobs and I work 1 plus the entire burdon
of the home and dealing with a disabled child's appointments.

we are unable to budget..prices are changing so often :crazy:
I'm thankful I saw this coming and don't have much debt . Mostly
medical bills for my son .

[deaniac21]

74. This is the way people live all over Europe.

[sammythecat]

80. Everyone should be as angry as you.

I'm totally with you in your frustration and downright fury at what is happening in this country.

In 1955 I was 5 and my parents built a home. Two years later my father died of cancer and had no insurance of any kind. My mother was left with medical debt as well as the mortgage and she had to support 2 children plus both of her parents who had immigrated from Ireland with nothing. She worked in the office of a local department store and managed to raise 2 children and support her parents. Things were extremely tight, but she did it.

That would be utterly impossible today. Utterly impossible. I don't know what would have happened to us today. We'd be homeless without some sort of charity. The kind of job my mother had would just barely support one frugal person today. Then, it supported 5.

Most of the middle class is gone with the rest soon to follow. Without some sort of inheritance of money or property, it's just about impossible for a single blue collar wage earner to support a family. Today, both spouses better have good jobs or they're not going to make it. And, even with 2 jobs, they better be smart as hell with their money because they'll likely be living on the edge of disaster without any kind of "rainy day" money.

I've been seeing this happening for years now. For the average person, each year is a little harder than the last, and the situation is worsening at an increasing rate. How the hell are people going to heat their homes this winter with fuel at $4 a gallon? What are they going to do when it's $5 or $6? Or even higher? These prices are never coming down, only going up, and, as the price of fuel increases, so goes the price of everything else. If someone is just barely getting by now, in a few years they won't be able to get by. They're just not going to be able to do it.

Why John Edwards constant harping about the "two Americas" didn't seem to resonate is beyond me. We're already two Americas and the divide is widening.

I fully agree that people ought to be "in the streets crying murder". We're getting killed out here, both in the figurative and the literal sense. People are dying prematurely because they can't afford to take care of themselves.

The America that this country has historically striven to be is being destroyed right here, right now, in our lifetime. If there is no DRASTIC change soon, this country will no longer be worth defending. We can hope for a better future, but no longer can we have a realistic expectation of a better future. We could at one time, but not now. The ranks of those living in "quiet desperation" is growing daily, and the ranks of those who are just flat out desperate grow daily as well.

Right now our government is already corrupt, and more importantly, our media is corrupt. We have no one watching out for us. We need some real heroes in this country. We need 'em bad and we need 'em now. We're on the wrong fucking road, that's for sure, and we some guidance to get back on some kind of accelerated track in the right direction very soon or it'll be too late. We're on our way to becoming like Brazil or some other wealthy 3rd world country made up of the very wealthy and the very poor. That's no exaggerated claim either, I've seen the decline in my own lifetime and it just keeps getting worse year by year. The middle class in America is on it's way to being nothing more than a brief blip in our history.

[lse7581011]

89. Wish I Could Recommend Your Post! n/t

[Two Americas]

107. great post

The reason that Edwards message did not resonate is because no one heard it.

Poverty is the only issue. Why? Because that is where the battle lines are drawn. The right wingers, and their wealthy and powerful sponsors, do not care about abortion, guns or any of the rest of the "program" the push. It is a money grab.

The right wingers now what the battle is about and where the battle lines are drawn and what is at stake, and they are always focused and relentlessly advancing their agenda. We are missing in action in that battle, because we are diverted off into the realm of the phony "culture war" issues. Everything they do is to advance the needs and desires of the wealthy few, and destroy or steal everything that helps the average person, or that rightfully belongs to the people.

You can not win a battle when you don't know where it is and what it is about. This is not a battle of our choosing, but it is a battle that we can no longer ignore. We must start fighting back, just as our ancestors did, just as the Democratic party once did.

Poverty is the only issue.

Poverty is the result of an full-scale assault on the common people, and we are all impoverished and homeless to one degree or another. You may be an hour away from hunger or the street, I may be a week, someone else may be a month away, and a very, very few - the fortunate few - are a year away or more. But we are all in the same boat. Some boats are leaking faster than others, but none of the boats is truly seaworthy and we are all on our own and the powerful people in charge do not care. We must help each other, or we will all perish.

Poverty is the only issue.

[sammythecat]

121. I think you are right about John Edwards message not being heard.

We've lost the Press. There really is a "vast right wing conspiracy" going on. That's not lunatic ranting, that's the truth. That's why we don't have an honest Press. That's why we're in Iraq, and why this country is generally going down the toilet. The Press is controlled by the Right. There can no longer be any reasonable doubt about that. 10 years ago I would have thought that was crazy talk, but now I know better. The "history" of Tim Russert is a prime example. My jaw dropped at how he handled Cheney for instance. I didn't know if I was nuts or everyone in the media was nuts. I didn't make any sense to me how Russert could swallow all the blatant lies. Now, thanks to posters on DU, I see the connections. Cheney-->War-->General Electric-->Jack Welch-->Tim Russert. He was a self-serving sellout. Plain and simple.

The "vast right wing conspiracy" isn't a coordinated conspiracy of millions. It's a whole bunch of smaller conspiracies whose members all benefit from the same things. War is a good example. Many, many fortunes are made in war. Dick Cheney doesn't have to lobby the brass companies to convince them that Iraq is a real threat. The brass industry captains might not care, or know, why Cheney wanted war, but they do know a war will require billions of shell casings. They can sell a lot of brass in a war. Maybe even to both sides! General Electric makes a lot of stuff for the military. A nice war means a lot of that stuff is gonna get broken, then they get to sell even more stuff. War will make fortunes for some at GE, GE owns NBC, NBC owns Tim Russert, Tim Russert lets Dick Cheney scare the shit out of everybody, everybody wants to be protected against certain death from the bogeyman, we go to war and a lot of big shots make a lot of money. Buy all the media and you can do whatever the hell you want.

I think you're absolutely right. It's a money grab. It really is all about money and insatiable greed. That's what has corrupted this country and every other corrupt country in history as well. The problem is our enemy has the money and power to keep corrupting anyone who stands in their way. They control nearly all the media where most people get their information. What I fear is that a lot of people are going to be hurt badly before we wake the hell up. Even then, I don't know how we take the country back. There's just so many powerful positions that are held by bad people. I don't know where to start. Maybe the Press is the first thing we need to fix. People have to learn the truth of what's been happening and then maybe they'll get pissed, but I don't know how to fix the press. Waiting for all of current sellouts to die off doesn't seem like a hopeful strategy. I think of all the damage done by Fox News. Maybe an anti-Rupert Murdoch will show up and start, or buy, a network that will be as aggressive and effective at telling the truth as Fox News has been telling lies. I don't know, that's about all I can think of now. Like I said earlier, we need some real champions to emerge in this country. Champions that can show us how to defeat the enemy while we still have the strength and spirit to fight. We need 'em to show up real soon.

[raccoon]

182. Great post. nt

[Daemonaquila]

144. Bread & Circuses

Unfortunately, the government and large corporations have managed to continue distracting the American public with teases, promises, and just plain sleight of hand with pretty objects. They have learned the single most important lesson of the Soviet Union - the public was willing to accept almost anything as long as their standard of living was getting better. In the Soviet Union, that was true from the rise communism until the tail end of Khrushchev. Once the government could not hold on to these little conveniences, whether it was plentiful, cheap bread and other staples, or the increasing availability of home improvements like refrigerators, the people got mighty intolerant... but it took 20 years before they hit a critical mass of anger. What are the Bushies doing now? While they've lost their hold on gas (and that's ok in their eyes because they and their friends are making record bucks), but they've ensured that cheap, crappy goods are plentiful in the Wal-Marts, housing (a/k/a the "American Dream") *was* freely available, credit was easy, and jobs were relatively plentiful (send oodles of workers to Iraq and Afghanistan so jobs open up here while others are created overseas in the temporary economy of wartime). Unfortunately for them - and us - the scheme is unraveling. It will be especially difficult when the troops and contractors finally come home and have to look for jobs in a poor economy, will have to accept much lower pay, and that group of folks and their families will start losing the homes they have managed to hold on to so far thanks to combat-zone work.

Right now, we're at only 8 years with Bush. We've just started to feel the real pinch. So, I'm not putting my money on any popular awakening, much less organized fury, for another decade. Sure, we're seeing some of that frustration trickling into popular culture and the media, but let's face it - the government and corps are extremely good at the politics of distraction. I watch Europe right now, with the strikes over gas prices and much more popular protest against a war that they personally are far less affected/threatened by, and I shake my head at what's happening here. Despite how bad it's getting, people are just not personally uncomfortable enough yet to take action.

[raccoon]

183. Yours is a great post too. Welcome to DU. :hi: nt

[lse7581011]

81. My Mom

isn't going to be able to afford heating oil this winter. Last year we paid $2.39 this year it's already at $4.89 and climbing by the day. The only solution that wecan see is to shut down either her house or mine for the winter and since I'm the one with 3 cats and a dog looks like I'll be having a houseguest!

Am open to any solutions if anyone can think of any!

[sammythecat]

100. I'm sympathetic with your plight.

I, and millions of others, are dreading the winter too. Never before in my life have I ever felt winter to be an actual threat. An inconvenience, but not a threat. That we have come to this point is just an outrage.

I recently saw a very good movie called "In the Valley of Elah". In the beginning of the movie there's a scene where Tommy Lee Jones drives by a school and notices the flag flying upside down. He finds the custodian, who is an immigrant unfamiliar with flag protocol, and they both go out to fix the flag. He asks the custodian if he knows what it means when the flag is flown upside down. The custodian has no idea and the Tommy Lee Jones' character says "It's an international distress signal. It means we're in a whole lot of trouble. So come save our asses, because we don't have a prayer in hell of saving ourselves". The last scene has Tommy Lee Jones returning to the same school, and, with the help of the same perplexed custodian, he raises the American flag...upside down. Which is as it should be. We're in trouble here and we need help.

[lse7581011]

102. I'm Going To Rent That

I've never felt this way either! I just don't know what the winter holds and it's keeping me from sleeping now in the summer! I work in the town hall of a very affluent community and there are already people coming to see us because they don't know how they are going to buy fuel and food! It's just a really weird feeling to be so apprehensive!

[sammythecat]

117. Just in case,

I should tell you the movie is about the dehumanizing effect of the Iraq war on Tommy Lee Jones' (TLJ) son who's just returned from Iraq only to be brutally murdered 4 days later. His only other son was killed during the first Gulf war. TLJ plays a hard working average guy who was an MP in Vietnam. A good man of few words and TLJ does such a convincing job, I can't imagine anyone else in the role. Susan Sarandon is his wife. She's not seen much but when she is on screen she's very good. Charlize Theron plays a detective who, with the help of TLJ tries to solve the murder. I'll forever be a fan of hers after seeing the job she did in "Monster", another very good, overlooked, and very sad, movie. It's not an action movie, and although the subject matter is gruesome, it's only spoken about, not visualized. I liked it a lot.

So, I hope I didn't leave you with the impression it was a movie about heating oil. I doubt I did, that sounds funny just typing it. But, in a sense, it is about heating oil, and jobs, health care, poverty, criminal government, and all the rest. It's about this reticent, proud, patriotic man, and his realization that his country is not what he thought it was. We're not the "shining city on the hill" that we've been told. Maybe we were at one time, maybe not, but we're certainly not that now. The flag is upside down for millions of Americans right now, and I fear it'll get worse before it gets better. I hope I'm wrong about that and I hope Barack Obama becomes an American hero, because that's what we need right now. A real champion who will be in a relentless hurry to set things right because we got a whole shit pile of stuff that needs fixin' in this country. I hope he can at least give us back a REALISTIC expectation that our futures will be better. There's a whole lot of desperate people out there that need some real hope, and they need it pretty much right now.

If you see the movie I'll bet you like it. It was very good. Sad, but very interesting and very well done. Definitely thought provoking.

[lse7581011]

140. Thank You!

I'm definitely going to try and get it on my way home tonight. And, no, I didn't think it was about heating oil but I appreciate the just in case! I share your hopes that Barack Obama will become a hero! We definitely need one and I certainly don't envy anyone who gets elected!

[Marrah_G]

187. I know how you feel

I am scared to death about the coming winter.

[butterfly77]

86. I have been singing this song for a few years now..

and have been wondering what was taking so long for others to see what was going on. Homeless vets as well as others,Crime,and every now and then you would here a story about children returning home because they couldn't make it. Layoffs,downsizing,outsouring,foreclosures,the falling dollar,the deficit, the war,and on and on and on..

The CONS now show up on every tv show touting drilling offshore trying to pretend as if they are doing something when they said nothing when Cheney was making backroom deals. Now,somehow the republicons are trying to make us believe that Bush is smarter than Obama and that we are not in a recession when I really believe it is a depression because, it is getting worser day by day...

[DailyGrind51]

87. You spoke the reality that most of us wake up to every day.

[L0oniX]

97. I never wanted kids and I am so happy I didn't have any. This country and world is not fit for kids.

[truedelphi]

98. Just six months ago, I was posting that people would see that Bush

Was turning our country into Romania.

That was always the big scary thing the Powers that Be put in our minds about the Soviet Union - whole generations of people lived together. No privacy. No room.

And no food on the shelves. No consumer goods.

Well it might come to that. Actually what will happen is that there will still be stores, but they will be off inside a gated community.

[Mountainman]

99. I have an idea, My wife and I have no kids never did. When I cook it is hard to cook for two.

I almost always have left overs. I could feed a two more people on what I throw away. Maybe we should start inviting others over for dinner to save them money?

There are probably hundreds of ways we could all help each other cut our living expenses. This may sound dumb but it makes sense like it did many years ago. Save water, shower with a friend.

Our solitary ways prevent us from doing many of the things we could think of.

[27inCali]

104. There were many reasons why

Our Forefathers chose as the second most important amendment -only after freedom of religion and self-expression, the right for the general populace to carry firearms. One of those reasons was that they wanted to ensure common citizens that last ditch remedy should the rich and powerful become corrupt to the point of despotism.

We are not quite there yet, but when majorities of the population are roughly shoved intro poverty while the rich restrict any reasonable means of breaking out of that poverty, we will have reached that point, not because I or anyone else wants it or romanticizes it, but because it is an inevitable law of nature.

Truly, a vote for Obama is a vote for peace, but a different kind of peace than many people realize.

[dana_b]

116. rant away!

I don't think you'll get too many people disagreeing with you here. I'm sorry this happened. I'm sure your daughter and her family must feel pretty bad too.

I got my evaluation from work today. I'm above average in my evaluation but pretty much just got a pat on the back. I told my boss that I've gotten a .50 cent raise in 3 years and she just looked at me like "yeah, so?" This place makes tens of millions a year (top ten hospital in the U.S.) but raises? Oh no.... we couldn't do that. The prices of everything is skyrocketing but not our pay. And yes, I know that other countries have it much worse than us, but it still doesn't make it right that those near the top keep getting huge bonuses, pay raises, etc. and we get pennies or nothing at all.

[salguine]

119. The only thing that is ever going to put an end to this horseshit

is the people of this country rising up in blood and fire and setting up a guillotine on the Mall between the Capitol and the Washington Monument. Conditions in this country have been virtually identical to those in France just prior to her revolution for some time now. We need a new Robespierre. (Yes, I'm aware of the excesses he eventually led to, but I'm almost ready to risk it. Even if I don't survive it myself, I almost feel like it's worth the risk.) If things continue to get worse, we just might see it happen.

[Initech]

120. I drink your milkshake! I drink it up! - Daniel Plainview

He's the perfect movie interpretation of George Bush. A total fucking psycopath who wants every last nickel and dime he can get his hands on and stomps all over everybody else. It's not the "haves-and-have-nots" crowd that is running things. It's the "I WANT IT ALL FOR MYSELF AND FUCK EVERYBODY ELSE" crowd that's running things.

[kaygore]

122. Why aren't people taking to the streets????

I have asked myself that question many, many times.

And yet, there is a big percentage of people who will NOT vote against McCain no matter who the other candidates are. Go figure!

[demigoddess]

137. I think it is because of efforts of people like rush limbaugh, convincing people

that they are rich even if they are a family of four living on ten thousand a year. O convincing them that you have a more value driven life if you live on low income. Such as the stories they told on one show about 'we were very poor growing up , but we never felt poor.' also 'my parents raised five kids on sixteen thousand a year and we turned out ok.' They never make the connection that sixteen thousand back then was a pretty good wage and bought much more than it does today. when I was first married our monthly mortgage payment was one hundred dollars in the seventies. How many people can say that today???

[Tesha]

148. The TV's still on and the beer's still cold. (NT)

[Two Americas]

173. no leadership

The problem is not with the people, it is with us. Rather than leading them, we are waiting for them to rise up, calling them stupid, and telling them not to vote for McCain. Telling them to vote Democratic and scratching our heads when they don't, or berating and attacking them, is not leadership. In fact, the two - what we are doing and what leadership would have us be doing - are opposites.

The working class has been decapitated - we are all missing in action: the writers, thinkers, readers and speakers from the working class who could be reaching and leading the people, and are instead bought off, compromised, and "working within the system" and embracing a political philosophy that sees the common people as ignorant, stupid and useless.

We are so compromised and compliant, that we are reluctant to use the phrase "working class" and sanitize moist political discussions from having any serious discussions about economics and power whatsoever. So we are left with "personal choice" based on "our values" and can;t understand why everyone isn't "like-minded." Most people look at that and wonder if we are nuts. Has there ever been a weaker and more compromised group of political people in history as we are?

If we refuse to advocate on behalf of the people in the bottom half, is there any reason why we should expect them to support or agree with us? None that I can see.

[happygoluckytoyou]

123. so you're saying that some people are "GETTING BITTER"....go figure...GOBAMA

[reggie the dog]

125. Bill Moyers

I believe described the trickle down effect as the rich running off into the night with money and the rest of us getting the few coins they drop.

[TheModernTerrorist]

131. I don't know if you saw it

but Keith Olbermann did a special report tonight on the "Enron Loophole" that summed it all up IMO.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x149255

This 10-minute vid pissed me off way more than I'm used to. I think we all need to raise hell about this, as I think this is a MAJOR reason we're in the shit we're in now, and I think we should hold ALL parties accountable: Shrub, Cheney, McCain, EVERYONE!

[RNdaSilva]

132. Empathized

[nachoproblem]

133. 88 cents? You're f*ing kidding me!

Gas went over $2 a gallon in Silicon Valley that summer.

Point taken though. My sister and niece and I are talking about moving in to my parent's house when my they move into a retirement complex. Sure, it's because my sister's husband passed away earlier this year and I am single, but while my parents are quite well off, none of us in my generation have ever been near as well off and we have just accepted this fact for a long time. The dismantling of this country's economy by international corporations has been going on at least since Reagan, and while it's been masked by some factors like the internet boom, the problems caused by our loss of economic independence are far deeper and have never been addressed. I only hope it isn't too late.

[nachoproblem]

134. 88 cents? You're f*ing kidding me!

Gas went over $2 a gallon in Silicon Valley that summer.

Point taken though. My sister and niece and I are talking about moving in to my parent's house when my they move into a retirement complex. Sure, it's because my sister's husband passed away earlier this year and I am single, but while my parents are quite well off, none of us in my generation have ever been near as well off and we have just accepted this fact for a long time. The dismantling of this country's economy by international corporations has been going on at least since Reagan, and while it's been masked by some factors like the internet boom, the problems caused by our loss of economic independence are far deeper and have never been addressed. I only hope it isn't too late.

[Enthusiast]

138. Something better happen soon

Because we are close to a point of no return now. Further media consolidation and this country is finished.

If Democrats gain the white house a top priority should be to uncover as much criminality by the previous administration as possible. This crap they foisted on us should never happen again. Every thing should be looked at, right down to the smallest allegation of election fraud. Bush and his minions should rot in their cells.

[democracy1st]

139. K & R LOL I'm sorry jojo it's not funny I'm just glad to see someone else pissed off

[janetblond]

142. You should be angry!

I know many people over 60 who've gone "back to work" part-time just to keep up with inflation.
Shrub and Chainey have achieved what they set out to do ,... DESTROY the middle class.
Everytime I see those idiots at McCain rallies, I can't believe they don't know what's happening.
Look at the floods in the midwest .. those people's lives are ruined.

[mwb970]

143. I'm as mad as you are.

We all are. But as you can tell from this and other "I'm mad" threads and the ensuing discussions, none of us has the faintest idea of what to do about it, aside from vague calls to "get together" or "stand up" or some such.

As many others have said, I have informed myself, I have posted, I have written LTTEs, I have protested. At this point, 85% of the country agrees with me. Yet nothing ever changes. Nothing is ever done about any of it.

* Sigh*

I guess our only hope is to get together and stand up to them.

[MedleyMisty]

147. We need to brainstorm, maybe

I mean, I see calls for general strikes but really, how many people are going to participate in that? If you try to plan it on the internet, maybe a few thousand at most? A lot of people don't have net access and even more people are thoroughly mind fucked and would be more likely to protest against it than join it.

I am afraid that there's nothing we can do until violence spontaneously breaks out, and obviously that's pretty much the worst way for things to go.

Or well, you know how the Nazis went down - losing a world war. Another option that doesn't sound too good.

I am thinking. So far I haven't come up with anything better than just trying your best to break through the propaganda on an individual basis.

It is a system that has survived in one way or another pretty much since humans developed agriculture, so yeah - not a whole lot of role models for successfully changing it. But we need to, because now the psychopaths can, as the Flobots say, "end the planet in a holocaust".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh2p1zJit7Y

[Two Americas]

174. nonsense

Yes, the answer is to fight back, as you say. Of course, That has always been the answer, throughout history. We are not the first people to face this challenge - how to fight tyranny.

Mass strikes, mass resistance, mass organizing. All successful social justice movements in history worked outside of the two party system, from where pressure could be brought to bear. All successful social justice movements throughout history started with discussion and analysis, and all political movements of any kind are led by a small faction of people.

Our absolute refusal to take the side of the working class is the problem, not some quandary about what specifics need to be done. It is the goals and the analysis that are wrong. Describing the conditions is essential, and is not merely a bitch session or "negative."

The right wingers know exactly what this battle is about - transferring all wealth and power into the hands of the few, and destroying or stealing everything that benefits the public. Their program is clear, relentless and obvious. Until and unless we are on those battle lines - and we are not - we have no chance of winning.

The right wingers fight for the wealthy and powerful few, and are waging an all out war against the other 99% of the people. They are winning. Who will fight back? The people are ready to fight back, but lack leadership. We could be that leadership. But we have to be willing to face the truth. Few among us are ready to do that.

Calling this an "I'm mad" thread, and trivializing it that way, and funneling any and all political discussion down into the weak, shallow and narrow confines of voter choice in some horse race media circus, and describing political discussion as somehow "not doing anything" or as not useful and valuable, is all part of avoiding taking leadership and denying the truth about the national crisis.

The discussion on this thread is extremely powerful, and will lead directly to something big happening. Count on it. The "enough with all of this talk what are we going to doooooo???" questions are a trick to keep us from lighting the sparks that are needed.

Politics is 90% talk - always has been always will be. The right wingers spend billions making sure that only the things they want to be heard are heard, and then tell us that "talk is cheap, but what are you going to do?"

The main thing the ruling class fears is the people thinking and communicating. That is why they tell us what to think, and listen in on what we are saying. THEY know that ideas and talk can bring them down. Yet we surrender that weapon voluntarily? The pen is much, much mightier than the sword. The wealthy and powerful people who control the country spend much more on suppressing communications than they do on physically suppressing us with weaponry.

We are losing the war of ideas and words - the real battle. Both of those we can change, and we can control, and we can win - without needing massive money or weaponry. In fact, the battle cannot be won with money or weapons. Weapons and money are what the tyrants use, because they are weak and have nothing else to use.

[maryf]

180. So we should take advantage

Of every opportunity to talk to strangers, talk to neighbors (used to be commonplace), get to know them because they may be a huge help, or need huge help at some time. Start shouting in your house, on your porch, in your car to give yourself a voice. You may not feel you need it now, but you may at some point, it feels good, and eliminates introversion. But most of all talk to everyone, try to start with a common ground, gas prices, food prices; talk about feelings about those who are having a harder time than most. Mention the homeless, the sick, nearly everybody has a heart, a sympathetic side, we just need to touch it and get them talking. Its the mind that lights the fire, but the heart that keeps it burning, I think.

Good luck with your family "reunion", thanks for the thread.

[maryf]

181. ps

And get over your fear of your representatives!! They are supposed to be representing us so we need to inform them. I know they are useless but they want your vote, and if enough people bug them they may move a little. Fuck (pardon me) your fear of being taken away!!! If everyone shouts what can they do? Call, write, email, make up your own petitions, your own fliers; post them in the grocery stores, post offices, keep posting them!! They will be removed! Put them back up. Write about your problems. Post something like this thread! And tack it up in the grocery. Last time the funding bill came up it was defeated because of a grass roots effort to email, call, every rep. Today far fewer called, it wasn't the issue of the day. It passed, another 165 billion to keep colonization alive and well, argh. Keep abreast of what bills are coming up. Calling only takes a minute! None of this really takes that much time!! We have to be the press, we have to be the voice that others hear. Peace and Justice Now.

Kudos for writing the OP, its what we all have to start doing, and out there not just here.

[The Backlash Cometh]

145. Well, what is really scary is that this WAS their plan for the 21st Century.

If they hadn't of bothered to gobble up countries to take advantage of the oil, we might have been able to squeeze another generation of the good life. And if Al Gore had been president in 2000, we would have found an alternate energy source before the oil became depleted.

[GOPBasher]

149. My family and I live my my mother-in -law. I feel your pain. n/t

[ElsewheresDaughter]

150. omg my daughter's family has moved back home to...last year! and I have several friends families

that have done the same for at least the past 4 years. We have been growing and preserving our own food for healthy life style reasons for many years, but now we do it out of necessity. our heating costs has almost tripled in 7 years ....just this year heating oil cost increased to $250 a month higher.....There is a hell of a big shit storm heading our way folks. we are in for a great shift and we need to wake up or we can not survive it.

Some of the top economist's said, "what is coming is going to make the Great Depression look like a Sunday walk in the park"


Thank you for your rant it rants on behalf of many!

[ekwhite]

152. Grab your pitchforks and torches people

We've got work to do! God, it will take a long time to clean up the mess GWB and the Bush Crime Family made.

[MiJaMu]

153. do i detect a little racism here?

There may be some people who already do this (and I don't mean Mexico et. al.)

Stop blaming others for your problems. The government may control my taxes, but they don't control my happiness.

[undeterred]

157. You're on the wrong messageboard.

[Two Americas]

175. say what?

"Mexico" is not a race.

[lovuian]

159. I would say you are now the common American family

first we couldn't live on the mans salary then we needed the womans now we need others to just make ends meet

[redqueen]

160. Anyone remember Cheney's quote about high gas prices being a sign

of a failed administration... something along those lines?

*sigh*

Republicans wanted oil industry insiders for a presdient & VP.

Well, you got it. Thanks, morans.

[bluerum]

161. It ain't over yet. We are going to be paying buSh and his cronies for a decade.

Probably longer unless people wake up.

[Mithreal]

164. We need economic justice as much as hope.

I am ashamed to hear so many Americans suffering. Our economic policies have touched our family as well, lifelong Republican family members, one worked in banking, the other hauled oil, lost multiple jobs then a house. The policies they vociferously support put me out of multiple jobs too and they came to me for money while I was out-of-work. They ridiculed and mocked me as a real "winner" to my wife while I was out-of-work more than once in a short time and now they faced worse disaster than my wife and I. The family did bail them out but they still lost their house and most of their belongings. Damn shame. I feel like I am living the ant and grasshopper story where one of us saved and was thrifty and the other lived extravagantly. I hate being proved right about where this country is headed, it gives no satisfaction. I am doorbelling and working to keep Dems in office and get others elected and have a lot of hope, but that isn't enough. We need economic justice. No one is going to gift us with it, we are going to have to figure out how to take it.

The Republicans are anti-American and anti-human. Some will reform, others will never learn.

My Republican family members have not learned. Maybe a lil less hateful and vociferous, and I do mean a lil, but still dead wrong.

I hope you all are giving your time and not just doing the message boards because we have a Herculean task to change the direction of this country, Obama will not do a lot of what needs done, despite hopeful speeches, he is still only going to be one man against the domestic enemies of this country.

[DaveJ]

165. Having a Home should not be an uncertainty

Nobody should fear being homeless, or be 'forced' to share, whether retired of a young couple starting out.

This is what makes it look like we've made no progress in the last 200 years. At least during the frontier days, people could obtain a plot of land, and build their home and grow their food themselves. Their efforts were directly rewarded, and depended on their strength, intelligence, and hard work. In modern times now, with automation, one would think it would be easier to obtain a home, but in fact, it is harder because the rewards from society's progress are being stolen by robber barons. Half of them don't have any work ethic or intelligence, but more often either run some scam, inherited their wealth, exploit cheap labor, collect dividends while sitting around, etc.

Obstacles preventing folks from getting a home could be pretty easily solved. Debt from other sources (Ie, student loans, credit cards, gym memberships, etc) should have no bearing on whether someone can get a home loan. And we should do everything possible to make mortgage and home prices reasonable. Extremely simple.

Hard to believe people in the U.S. is too afraid to do anything about it.

[Marrah_G]

184. Just wait until winter hits...........

We are just getting by with the increased food and gas costs. Last winter almost broke me. I ended up heating for 2 months with electric heaters...I will finish paying that bill off in sept. Come winter I will need a second full time job to pay for heat. If the costs continue to rise at this rate then it won't be long before I am either forced out of my home or we freeze to death or the pipes burst.

I am a single working mother of 3- There are millions more of me out there.

[maryf]

188. Last year

I read about folks having to decide between food and heat, worse next year, I hope things get better for you!!

[Tippy]

185. First my daughter her husband and two kids moved in with us

Then my daughter in-law and her to kids moved in...then my two son's who had been working away from home moved in...Now daughter #1 and her brood have moved on and are now trying it on their own again...so that leaves 5 adults and two children....Not exactly the way I envisioned my life a this point....but we are making it....