If you read only one GD/P post before November, make it this one.

[blondeatlast]

No parsing, no maybes, no excuses:

Obama: I will close Guantanamo, reject torture without exception and end spying on Americans

Before clicking, please may I ask that you kick this thread occasionally so it stays to the top for other GD diehards (of which I was one until last week--it still ain't exactly pretty!)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6379446&mesg_id=6379446

Yes, we CAN!

[Fridays Child]

1. First k and r.

:hi:

[zanne]

2. k&r

[Lars39]

3. Glad to K & R.

:kick:

[helderheid]

4. kick and RECOMMENDED

[Sundoggy]

5. I will never, never agree!

I can't. This post isn't IN GD/P!

OH, the OTHER one. Okay. ;)

[Hissyspit]

6. .

[Echotrail]

7. Thanks!

:)

[TexasObserver]

8. K & R

[blondeatlast]

9. k

[Faux pas]

10. ...

:kick:

[tavalon]

11. Okay.

[Jokinomx]

12. Kick ....n/t

[Duncan Grant]

13. *kick*

:kick:

[tblue37]

14. K&R n/t

[readmoreoften]

15. That's great. That's really good to hear. I hope that they actually heed his word.

The problem with this situation is how to make sure they're not opening NEW gitmos and spying anyway. I hope he also shakes all the cockroaches out of the CIA, DIA, and DOD in general.

[puebloknot]

16. K&R And, Mr. Obama, close the School of the Americas, also! nt

[kaygore]

17. K and R

[Kaleko]

18. Yar!

[RNdaSilva]

19. Ok...

[Senator]

20. No Leadership -- No Accountability -- No Hope For Victims

Torture and human rights violations are ongoing. Right now.

The treaties demand that ALL gov't officials ACT to report and put a stop to torture and war crimes. Failure to do so is a war crime in itself.

Obama: I will continue to tolerate -- be complicit with -- attach my tacit approval to -- these horrific acts.

No, you can't -- call that business-as-usual, political weaseling integrity.

And it may well cost us 4 more years of bushcheneyism**.

===
**Yes, I said 4 more years. Make no mistake, any and all Repubs remain under the thumb of cheney(ism/ists) -- he don't need no stinking "I'm The Veep" badge -- his power is very real, in the real world, among the Republican locksteppers. Without the public rejection/disgrace of impeachment, they still control the beltway.

It matters little to them of there's another GOPuppet or another DemPinata.

Only impeachment has the potential to end this nightmare and reunite our once-great nation.

--

[NoFederales]

25. Complicity must be the reason Impeachment is "off the table." Hope fails against illicit gains. nt

NoFederales

[Indenturedebtor]

28. While I agree that it would be nice to see something happen

He's the last person I expect to "go down fighting" at this precise moment. Pelosi has promised to shut any such efforts down, and I don't want to see our candidate lose to McBush thus guaranteeing at least 4 more years of this nightmare.

[Senator]

31. It's not a matter of what "would be nice"

He's currently on track to "go down surrendering."

This notion that impeachment would be bad for Dems/Obama is just another beltway "conventional wisdom" -- just like everything that caused the Iraq War, and that the Clinton years were "scandal ridden," and that Russert was a "great journalist." It's simply not a reality-based conclusion. All evidence is to the contrary. Even if it were true, failing to impeach for a little political gain is at least as corrupt -- and damaging to the nation -- as the acts of the regime.

But even by the deluded, DC-strategerist "logic" it is electoral folly. It sends the message (the "optics") that Obama is just another weak, feckless, promises-only politico. It undercuts his biggest strength as a new, outsider, agent of change. And casts the Dems as corrupt and without principles -- feeding into the right's most effective attack meme. It casts the Dems as "no real alternative."

You'd think the fact that this is still within the margin of error with no polls showing Obama over 50 percent -- in an environment with a 75 percent disapproval of the WH and an even worse negative view of national direction -- would be making people frantic with worry (it should). Obama is in no better shape than Gore or Kerry was.

But the manipulators never seem to learn. And never seek to lead.

--

[Indenturedebtor]

32. Obama needs to focus on the ISSUES of his presidency

There are hundreds more congress critter who are duty bound under the constitution to uphold it. Why focus in on Obama?

I agree that political expediency is absolutely no way to run a country, but I place the blame with Pelosi and Reid for not letting this happen.

He cannot and should not fight every single battle at this point.

[Senator]

33. Why focus on the Party's leader?!?

Yes, there are hundreds in dereliction of their duty. And Pelosi and Reid have been to blame up to now.

But when Obama got the nomination he surpassed Pelosi and Reid as "Top Democrat(s)." With it, he got the responsibility -- not just the power of the platform. For good or ill, he speaks and ACTS for all of us now. That's why they call it "The Standard Bearer."

Yes he can and should (and must) LEAD on every single battle -- in fact, it's not optional -- there is no hiding or getting a pass on anything. And there is no "issue" more important than ACTING to stop the ongoing torture and war crimes.

His failure is now the party's failure. He is now leading us into political expediency -- into top-down, manipulative, promises-only politics as usual.

And that is the overriding message he's sending to the public/electorate. The one proven to keep elections close enough to steal.

--

[bluerum]

21. Ooo - stubbed my toe.

[yellerpup]

22. Kick for Obama!

And for the END of torture and the degradation of INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS granted by the US Constitution.

[elizfeelinggreat]

23. k & r

Thanks for this.

[NinetySix]

24. Kick & Rec

[toadzilla]

26. kick

[wowimthere]

27. K&R Yes We Can

[tom_paine]

29. K & R

[lonestarnot]

30. K & R

[librechik]

34. K&R for the folks who asked if O has a position on FISA

[libnnc]

35. Kick 'cause we can no longer allow this

***************T O R T U R E*********************


***************NOT IN MY NAME*********************


Gen. Taguba: Bush Administration Committed War Crimes

The Army general who first investigated the abuse at Abu Ghraib has accused the Bush administration of committing war crimes. Retired Major General Antonio Taguba made the comment in a new report about US torture practices. Taguba wrote, “The commander in chief and those under him authorized a systematic regime of torture.” Taguba went on to say, “The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account.” <snip>

http://www.democracynow.org/2008/6/19/headlines#1





Thursday, June 19, 2008
The Great Torture Scandal

McClatchy and other reporters are abruptly pulling the curtain away from the Bush team's illegal practices in arresting people arbitrarily, declining to offer proof that they were guilty of anything, detaining them indefinitely without trial or charges, and deliberately torturing them to the extent of leaving long-term scars and disabilities. The torture practices originated not with lower-level officers but with Donald Rumsfeld and others in Bush's inner circle, who then later blamed lower-level officials for developing the ideas that Rumsfeld ordered them to develop. Nothing they have done has survived a court challenge where one has been permitted.<snip>

http://www.juancole.com/2008/06/great-torture-scandal.html





A Senate investigation has concluded that top Pentagon officials began assembling lists of harsh interrogation techniques in the summer of 2002 for use on detainees at Guantanamo Bay and that those officials later cited memos from field commanders to suggest that the proposals originated far down the chain of command, according to congressional sources briefed on the findings.<snip>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/16/AR2008061602779.html