Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

OMG! WOULD BIN LADEN GET HABEAS RIGHTS?!

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:44 PM
Original message
OMG! WOULD BIN LADEN GET HABEAS RIGHTS?!
http://www.anonymousliberal.com/2008/06/omg-would-bin-laden-get-habeas-rights.html

OMG! WOULD BIN LADEN GET HABEAS RIGHTS?!
The Anonymous Liberal


That's the scary headline on this post over at MSNBC's First Read. Toward the middle of the post, author Domenico Montenaro highlights a question asked during a McCain campaign conference call this afternoon:

In a question posed toward the end of the call by Stephen Hayes of the Weekly Standard, the McCain campaign might have found a new talking point with which to emphasize the possible effect of the Gitmo decision. Hayes' asked if -- in the campaign's interpretation -- the Court's decision would mean that if Osama bin Laden was captured and imprisoned at Guantanamo, he too would be entitled to Habeas Corpus rights.


The McCain campaign's answer was yes.

"If Sen. Obama did receive that 3 a.m. phone call," Scheunemann said of the call so often mentioned throughout the Democratic primaries, "I guess his response would be to call the lawyers in the justice department."


This is obnoxious on several different levels. First, of course Bin Laden would get habeas rights if he were held at Guantanamo. Since when do rights vary based on your name? But more importantly, why should anyone find it troubling that Osama would have such a right? If he sought to petition a court, it would result in the easiest and most predictable judicial decision ever. Habeas corpus just means that you have the opportunity to challenge the lawfulness of your detention. The evidence against Bin Laden is overwhelming. He would have the right to challenge his detention, but he would lose, quickly and decisively.

But beyond that obvious point, there's a deeper ignorance at work here. Embedded in Hayes question is the bizarre and completely unamerican notion that your legal rights should somehow depend on how "bad" a person you are. The more serious the crimes for which you stand accused, the less rights you should have under the law. But that's quite obviously not how any system of rights is supposed to operate. Hayes' question is like asking whether a serial killer has the right to counsel or the right to a jury trial. Of course he does. The whole point of due process is to determine whether someone is guilty. It's the punishment that is supposed to vary depending on the seriousness of the crime, not the process.

It's pathetic that someone with even moderate intelligence would ask a question like that or think that it was in any way insightful.

snip//

It's becoming increasingly clear (sadly) that McCain intends on running the exact same fear-based campaign that the Republicans have been running since 2002. The good news is that Obama's track record on this subject, particularly having been opposed to the Iraq war from the beginning, allows him to confront these kind of attacks in a way that other Democrats have not. Unlike John Kerry, for example, Obama is free to point out--without risking self-contradiction--that the Bush/McCain policies in the war on terror have been horribly misguided and strategically ill-advised. He can point out, as he did today, that the decision to invade Iraq was an enormous distraction and strategic blunder, the primary beneficiaries of which have been al Qaeda and Iran. He can also point out that had we listened to him, bin Laden might well be in U.S. custody right now pursuing pointless habeas petitions instead of building up his forces and plotting his next attack.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
NightWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Breaking News: hundreds of bad guys still convicted and imprisoned while having Habeus Corpus rights
Manson
Bundy
Gacy
McVeigh
Rudolph
DC Sniper
DC Madame
OJ (ok so maybe he skated)

you'd think that habeus= release, according to the reich wing
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Funny how people like to throw their rights around.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Or don't mind giving them up all together-that amazes me. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. OMG! Can the country survive if we follow our own laws?!!
I swear to God, in 1962, when we were on the verge of nuclear war, the country didn't run around hyperventilating over real or imagined demons like the rightwing does now. Talk about Namby Pamby!! They're afraid of everything, even our bedrock bundle of rights.

Habeas Corpus!!

It's not just for innocent people any more!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. That's because only chickenshits are Republican
They're afraid of going to war, they're afraid of the boogeyman, they're afraid of change, they're afraid of people with "scary" names like Obama, they're afraid of everything. I have a sort-of friend who's Republican, and he's the biggest chickenshit p***y I know.

The reason fearmongering works so well with Republicans is that they have so many fears to prey upon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. Isn't Bin Laden already dead?
How would Habeas Corpus help him in a grave?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
islandmkl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. Why is the Right Wing so afraid of the Constitution?
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 05:59 PM by islandmkl
Time to start asking that question of these demagogues and their lackeys in the MSM, talk radio, etc.

Explain to the American people why WE shouldn't have faith in our Constitution, why we should feel comfortable giving up even one part of any of our rights...

a few quotes:

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty or safety...

Freedom is not a gift bestowed upon us by other men, but a right that belongs to us by the laws of God and nature.

This will be the best security for maintaining our liberties. A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins.

...it is a common observation here that our cause is the cause of all mankind, and that we are fighting for their liberty in defending our own.

Where liberty dwells, there is my country.

...a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles ...is absolutely necessary to preserve the blessings of liberty and keep a government free.

Without freedom of thought there can be no such thing as wisdom; and no such thing as public liberty, without freedom of speech.

Whoever would overthrow the liberty of a nation must begin by subduing the freeness of speech.

When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.

Sell not...liberty to purchase power.

In free governments, the rulers are the servants and the people their superiors and sovereigns.

Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.

I hope...that all mankind will at length, as they call themselves reasonable creatures, have reason and sense enough to settle their differences without cutting throats; for in my opinion there never was a good war or a bad peace.

Men will ultimately be governed by God or by tyrants.
Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself.

History affords us many instances of the ruin of states...the ordaining of laws in favor of one part of the nation to the prejudice and oppression of another, is certainly the most erroneous and mistaken policy...

An equal dispensation of protection, rights, privileges, and advantages, is what every part is entitled to, and ought to enjoy...

-Ben Franklin

...and the rw talking heads/neoconazi/corporate fascists sell their stories of 'patriotism' to that mass of people they have on the run...

We MUST get our country back to its foundation...that is the one hope that will bring us back from this precipice...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
summer borealis Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. Would Oswald?
Colgosz? Guiteau? Booth?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ladjf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. Regardless of the law. Bin Laden would never make to court. He
knows way too much. I believe that is why he hasn't been apprehended. He might even already be dead.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 04:23 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC