Them wimp spineless DEMs might not be....what they appear to be...they might be CAUTIOUS

[opihimoimoi]

We are in the grips of someone out of control....a desperate Bully....who will do strange things as desperate Bullies sometimes do.

He is UNPREDICABLE...if so...think worst case scenario....

[Swamp Rat]

1. Aloha

We have been targeted for termination.

[opihimoimoi]

5. Cindy hates us Brownies...wants us kneeling in subjugation or terminated...LOL

Aloha, come, we go LUAU.

[Jackpine Radical]

8. Aloha, Opihi.

There are some very strange things about this vote. Why did they give in the way they did? In particular, I gather that Obama reversed himself after having taken a pretty clear stance against it. There is certainly something going on here, a deeper game afoot than I suspect we are in any position to appreciate. Maybe you're right. They're just trying to pussyfoot around the crazy guy with the chainsaw. Or maybe there's some other set of considerations in operation about which we have no clue. I note that my Rep, Obey, voted against, and Feingold spoke against. Obey in particular is an inside player. I have no doubt that his heart is in the right place, though he often takes positions I disagree with, in the interest of the "art of the possible." In this case, presumably knowing that most were going "Yea," he was OK with a symbolic but ineffectual "Nay." I don't think he would have bucked Pelosi if he hadn't already known the outcome.

[babylonsister]

2. So you're saying they're biding their time? Harumph! Who knows?

Hell, I don't know. I need some edumicating.

[opihimoimoi]

3. If there is something to make sense of this dumb ass approval...I could only think of whats worse

and if we look at reality....

Bush is border Insane....border psycho...anything can happen unner him...like a grab for the Emperor's Throne, suspending elections, etc...

Who knows...its the only Excuse I can think of....

[Leopolds Ghost]

20. To quote Saruman:

"A new Power is rising. Against it the old allies and policies will not avail us at all. There is no hope left in Elves or dying Numenor. This then is one choice before you, before us. We may join with that Power. It would be wise, Gandalf. There is hope that way. Its victory is at hand; and there will be rich reward for those that aided it. As the Power grows, its proved friends will also grow; and the Wise, such as you and I, may with patience come at last to direct its courses, to control it. We can bide our time, we can keep our thoughts in our hearts, deploring maybe evils done by the way, but approving the high and ultimate purpose: Knowledge, Rule, Order; all the things that we have so far striven in vain to accomplish, hindered rather than helped by our weak or idle friends. There need not be, there would not be, any real change in our designs, only in our means."

The Fellowship of the Ring: "The Council of Elrond," p. 272-73

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. This is a variant on the keep your powder dry

no, they simply are protecting their own precious asses..

[opihimoimoi]

6. I wuz just thinking..."and OUR asses too"

But the odds show you're more right than I...

Dems have MEism too....but to a essor degree.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Yes they do, but given that they were briefed and did nothing

on torture and spying in 2002, it is CYA.

It is simply the evidence that we have to work on

[Old and In the Way]

Blackmail or family threats

That's the only thing I figure,,,

[Solon]

7. They aren't wimps, nor are they spineless, they simply do not value the rule of law...

period. Anyone who thinks the Democratic party is on the side of "Constitutional Angels" is an idiot. This is par for the course for them, sad to say.

[babylonsister]

10. What's weird to me is that I think Obama IS on the side of the

constitutional angels. Maybe he needs to be in a position to 'work it'. :shrug: I know, you'll think I'm nuts, but maybe not.

[Solon]

11. Obama is on the side of Obama...

not anyone else, just like 90% of politicians in our government. He's playing up the "brand" he's developed around himself now, but that can change tomorrow, and its only fluff to begin with.

[babylonsister]

14. If you think Obama is only thinking about himself, you're full of what?

Do you seriously think he's intent on overtaking the world, or working for us? Perhaps he's doing what he has to do to win. What a concept.

And I don't think this is happening because someone told him to do it. He knew. And now I know.

[Solon]

19. Where's the evidence that he is working "for us" in the first place?

Look to his recent, call it gaffe, in support of this "compromise" with or without the immunity in the bill. If he were actually concerned about our civil liberties, he would oppose it, without reservations, but Gods forbid we have a guy who stands up on principle. I guess all that hope and change bullshit was just that, bullshit.

[babylonsister]

22. Are you part of the hysterical wing? ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6393279

[Solon]

23. Actually no, I would actually have to be a member of the Democratic party for that to happen...

they are far too conservative for me to join. As far as the bill is concerned, I just looked it up and read it, holy shit, what a fucking mess that is, and I didn't get to Title II yet(the "immunity" portion).

[SammyWinstonJack]

36. "Obama is on the side of Obama...not anyone else, just like 90% of politicians in our government."

:applause: Finally!

[Mind_your_head]

9. Nope.

We're just being "used and abused". Plain and simple. Face up to it. (you're not part/'privvy' to any "deals", are you?.....if not, you are SOOOOO being 'used')

[opihimoimoi]

13. Historically the Dems have been more benevolent than them PUBs

With that said...I gatta keep voting BLUE with the hope the Party goes into self cleaning with our help to out stragglers....

[Mind_your_head]

15. The 'best dems' play into the system to get a l-i-t-t-l-e teeny tiny bit

to 'go' the democratic way.

Believe it.

The Republicans (and their moneyed masters) don't have the same 'moral base' that you and I probably do. They can't. That's 'the truth'.

[NuttyFluffers]

16. at some point it is better to call than letting someone keep raising the stakes

see if they are bluffing. if not, resolve that hand and rake them over the coals next hand.

if "all in" is MAD nuclear war draw them down before you get to that point. call their hand. chip away at their pool of chips.

remember, they weren't claiming "all in" for this. it was just a raising of the stakes. constant and continual capitulation is a guaranteed path to complete loss. the first part to any real solution to this is to STOP GIVING IN.

[Leopolds Ghost]

21. These Dems would be terrible poker players.

Chances are they'd be cheating, throwing the game to the person across the table and making money on side-bets.

[NuttyFluffers]

29. oh, i honestly believe you there

but little arguments of understanding traitorous behavior should really be called out in simplest terms. we all want to be charitable to those we once thought as friends, but sometimes "cruel to be kind, in the right measure" is important, too.

opihimoimoi is good people. i have no interest in overdoing "cruel to be kind," so i use a softer analogy while overlooking other layers of motivation. come, we go eat potato chips and play cards.
:7

[Hekate]

17. I'll take that straw you're grasping at 'cause I need it too.

Come, we go luau. You bring the poke, I'll bring the poi. But somebody else got to bring the lomi salmon and the beer.

Hekate

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. And I truly wonder how many got it

by the way POI... it is an acquired taste you know...

Now the Lomi Salmon, YUMMO

[Marr]

24. No-- they're just corporate servants. The Republicans have the same masters.

The only difference is the Republicans can proudly announce their corporate loyalty, while the Democratic leadership has to pretend they're not corporate tools for their constituents. Sometimes the act is just ridiculously transparent, as it was today. The Democratic leadership has been desperately trying to "lose" this FISA fight for months now, but the public scrutiny was just too great. They finally gave up on the charade, did their corporate masters' bidding, and called it a "compromise".

[crickets]

25. NO. No more back room crap.

We get our hopes up over it every time, and every time that "oh, they know what they're doing, just wait!" lets us down. That's no way to govern. Enough with the secrets. Secrets bite everybody in the rear every time. Just ask "Gang of Eight" Nancy. Sunshine, backbone, and honesty is the way to go.

[Hubert Flottz]

26. I think it's about money...

Campaign Money...

[opihimoimoi]

30. I happen to think they are dealing with a prez who is not all there

a psycho nutcase...who is dangerous....

is poker involved? Who knows///who will blink first?

Is it the Blink Factor??

[FourPieRun]

27. no, i think it's pretty much the way it appears. nt

[AndyTiedye]

28. They Are Scared to Death of Bush

so they give him anything he wants.

If they don't, well there's blackmail, anthrax, and smaill airplane crashes.
If that's not enough, there's martial law.

The Democrats keep folding because the Repigs hold all the cards.

[opihimoimoi]

32. It might be larger than small plane crases...might be millions of lives

involved....who knows what crazed peeps do....the last one took out 65 million....

[Echo In Light]

37. That's implausible: why not go public then, go BIG, rally the populace and much of the world...

...around a just cause of exposing these fascists for what they are, rather playing into and perpetuating this bizarre facade that only the most highly indoctrinated still buy into anyway?

[Individualist]

31. There's that secret plan again!

[Bandit]

33. Come..we go to clam bake and forget all these politics of fear

:thumbsup:

[opihimoimoi]

38. Obama brings the politics of POSITIVE POLARITY...enough of the Pub Negativity

"Ye will know them by their NIT PICKING" ......24/7 satuation Negative Brainwashing on the Pub Tube....

[malaise]

34. My thread on the cave in

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3493505

[Orsino]

35. For the eighty-millionth time, they are not caving in to *.

They're caving in to the same Big Money that installed him, and that now owns 'em all.