In its own thread: Conyers' office main argument against impeachment

[EFerrari]

has been that if he begins impeachment, he won't be able to do anything else.

After last week, we have to ask ourselves WHY would that be a BAD thing?

:shrug:

What would be bad about holding up more war funding, more Constitution gutting, Bush agenda empowering bills? What?

What is the use of these endless "hearings" that result in nothing to stop torture, corporate giveaways or suicidal foreign policy?

I don't want Mr. Conyers to have time to forward the Bush agenda under the Pelosi leadership.

I want him to spend ALL OF HIS TIME on impeachment.

PLEASE IMPEACH THESE CRIMINALS, MR. CONYERS

PLEASE IMPEACH THESE CRIMINALS, MR. CONYERS

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

2. Excuse me?

[Buzz Clik]

5. That comment definitely demands clarification.

[uppityperson]

18. wtf? Clarify.

[robinlynne]

3. kick and recommend!

[dana_b]

4. your pictures sum it up perfectly

can you send your letter to him with those pictures?

[EFerrari]

6. Mr. Conyers has a DU account and I'm sure that the good people who work for him

read DU.

And, yes, I will print this out and mail it to him. The state of the nation couldn't be clearer but visual aids never hurt.

You can too:

2426 Rayburn Building
Washington, DC 20515
[phone]
[phone] Fax

[Buzz Clik]

7. Judging by the vote on the FISA bill, do you think Conyers et al could get the needed votes?

I am sick of Bush. I am tired he and Cheney breaking laws while laughing at us. But, our Congress doesn't have the stomach for impeachment.

[EFerrari]

8. Their stomachs seem too full to hunger after votes.

Don't they?

The country is about to elect a black man on a change platform. You tell me if we, not the privileged few but us, don't have the stomach to hold these felons accountable for killing our people for the oil men's profits. And for so, so much more.

Yes, the will is there. At this moment, House members are checking their parachutes. The people are furious. And rightly so.

[bdamomma]

63. and they are laughing at us and no one is stopping them.

[EFerrari]

9. Why would repeating Bush crimes daily on CSPAN be worse than

watching House Democrats justify back pedaling to BushCo? How does that work?

[Super Soaker Sniper]

10. Well

there are things that Congress could address other than Impeachment that might not happen in time anyway. Gas Prices, the Housing Finance Debacle, Bringing our troops home, our upwardly creeping unemployment rate, Global Warming all of these would have a direct effect on American's lives. Impeachment of Bush? After a fist pump or two and a "Woo Hoo!" what change for the better in the lives of Americans would come from that? If Congress has so little to that they must impeach a President just months before his term ends anyway maybe they should just stay home. If they were serious about this, they would have done it a long time ago. There is no evidence that has come to light lately that was not there before. The facts are the same. The only difference is that Conyers squeezed every last bit of rhetoric out this and was never intending to follow through anyway. He squeezed what he could out of it and all he has to do now is run out the clock.

For most of my life I have expected nothing but the worst out of everyone who has darkened the doorways of Congress and they have never disappointed me.

[EFerrari]

11. Welcome to DU, Super Soaker Sniper.

:)

[Catherina]

42. ! Welcome to DU. That was very well said n/t

[lyonn]

12. My gut tells me we need to impeach, even tho

I have no real knowledge what the ramifications would be. What seems so important is that the next leaders know that they cannot trash our constitution and lie to the people especially when it took us into a dreadful war.

We seemed to have lost the admiration of other countries due to stupidity, meaning we failed to think for ourselves and simply followed our leader; the people of this country don't seem concerned about bush's policies that affect the world in a dangerous way. We seem to be fearful people, afraid we will be attacked again if we don't bomb anyone that bush thinks is a threat they are gonna get us again....

We know there will be no impeachment, way too late for that. I would like to see new Democratic leaders in the House and Senate.

[bobbolink]

13. Of *course* we need impeachment. Would we let a burgler go without charges?

Would we let a murderer go without charges?

Would we let an embezzler go without charges?

ONLY THOSE WITH POWER AND $$$$$$ GET AWAY WITHOUT BEING CHARGED.

Are the a Nation Of Laws, or are we not?

Ramifications, schmamifications!

:) :hi: :)

[lyonn]

14. Did anyone see the House hearing last week on the torture issue?

It was like watching the Attorney Gen. Gonzales hearings, they knew nothing. No one knew where the info came from allowing torture?? Put all those hearing together and you truly wonder who the hell has any authority? Bush leaves it up to the Generals. The General leave it up to bush. That is called passing the buck. Damned unbelievable that any admin. could get by with lying from day one.

[EFerrari]

16. I called Levin's office that day. Thanked them for his work

and reminded them that the American people knew that torture was Bush policy since 2002.

They weren't happy with me, but they didn't contradict me, either.

[Super Soaker Sniper]

34. But the question is

Seriously, do you really think it will happen? No do you think it should happen? Must it happen? Is it an injustice if it does not happen? That is not what I am asking. WILL it happen? I do not have faith in any of those in Congress right now that they will all of a sudden find a spine and go for it.

[bobbolink]

59. What will happen is what WE, THE PEOPLE *allow* to happen.

I will repeat what I said in other places here...

WE are NOT helpless.

UNLESS we CHOOSE to be.

So many people have died to protect our constitution, yet we sit by and wring our hands and say "What good will it do?"

We are CHOOSING what kind of country we have.

[bdamomma]

66. damn straight, we are choosing what kind of country we want.

aren't we stronger than that.

[EFerrari]

15. It's not "too late" at all. That's the spin that we are being fed.

Why do we accept it? It's not true.

We're giving the more destructive criminals ever to occupy the Oval Office SIX MORE MONTHS to do all the damage they can, to sack our treasury, to get our people killed, to make this world more dangerous for Americans. And WHY?

Why? Who benefits?

Impeachment can take weeks, not months. Don't be fooled.

Obama has distanced himself, he doesn't have to take even this slight risk. And there is no way anyone can stop the tidal wave of people RACING away from the Republican party that has ABUSED our people for all of these years.

What the f#ck are we waiting for?

[lyonn]

17. What makes the situation even worse is that the media doesn't

cover, or should I say ignores, bush. That is why bush needs to be put under a spotlight before leaving office. Keep him from trading the U.S. for Iraq, that's a lotta oil they got ya know. He could really bring democracy to that country, bush style. 'Scuse me, I'm pissed so stupid talk flows freely.
spell edit

[EFerrari]

19. The American media is owned by the defense industry.

But even without going there, shining a light on Bush for these last six months can only slow him down -- when he has nothing left to lose -- and to help people understand how important this election is.

Most Americans agree: we're on the wrong track.

We need some leadership here. Impeachment hearings could only re-enforce what we all know already.

We don't need Mr. Conyers to use his considerable skill to fend off more attacks on our civil rights while he waits out the clock. That will only give the right wing more time and space.

IMPEACH, Mr. Conyers. This is the time and you are the man we need to stand up now.

[lyonn]

21. Well, one more kick, and that is for the fact that Conyers is a short

timer like me, when you get really old that is when you can say screw it, I am going to stand up for what is right. What really does he have to lose, his job? He is close to retirement fairly soon I would think?! Hey, I was turned out to pasture quite a few years ago.....

[EFerrari]

22. John Conyers is an amazing person.

When our whole media was studiously ignoring the fact that our election was stolen in 2004, he went out to Ohio and held hearings, took testimony.

If he washes his hands of us tomorrow, I'll understand. I'd wash my hands, too, if that were an option.

But while he's on the job, I'm going to keep talking to him. Because Conyers is burdened with something a lot of elected representatives don't have to deal with. He has a conscience. He may skirt that conscience at times but he never seems to actually out run it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. It can be done between the time the new Congress is sworn in and Bush leaves office

Someone pointed that out to me a couple days ago. It only takes a few weeks and there are indeed a few weeks available once the new Congress is in office.

We need to take his pension away. We need to send him off to Paraguay with an impeachment on his resume.

[EFerrari]

20. Look at the last picture in the OP. Those people trusted their government.

Please let's honor their memory.



:kick:

[lyonn]

23. Ugh, stomach roll....

Which brings up the fact that bushco bashed Clinton for not protecting us. When bush took office he Never mentioned the attack on the Cole. By then our intel definitely pointed to Bin Laden. Attack was in Oct. 2000 and george took office less than 3 months later. There is no doubt that the guy that was the brains behind the first attack on the towers is now doing time - NOT running around Afghanistan and Pakistan!!

[EFerrari]

24. Clinton had Richard Clarke on the job where Bush relegated him

to the fringes during a high threat period. Bush ignored the threat where Clinton didn't.

[snappyturtle]

25. If that picture isn't enough to convince people that impeachment

is mandated, I have no idea of what it would take. We called Pelosi's office last week to bitch about several things: FISA and putting impeachment back on the table and the incessant total funding of the war. I've now listened to McClellan's testimony twice....and agree with Wexler.

Both Cheney and Bush need to be impeached or does Nancy fear it will look like a power grab? :sarcasm:

[bobbolink]

27. Pelosi hates criminals, and wants them to be accountable.

Unless they're rich and powerful, of course.

:grr:

[tpsbmam]

28. And unless they're named Pelosi. n/t

[snappyturtle]

70. You've got that exactly right. How these people sleep at night has

me wondering.

[midnight]

32. Bush made this people have to jump to their deaths!!!!!!

[VP505]

26. No shit Sherlock, Congress doesn't

have time, they are rarely in session more than 3 days a week, they seldom go more than 3 weeks before taking 10 to 12 days off, they take 3 vacations a year. Its no wonder they don't have time, so far this year they have been in session 76 days and the way they are going, by the end of the year they will be lucky to have been in session 120 days.

[bobbolink]

29. Let's be fair. Remember that when they're not in D.C., they're in their home district,

doing local business, and listening to constituents.

If they *were* in D.C. all the time, I don't think you'd be too happy about that, either. They ARE supposed to be representing us, and to do that, they can't be in D.C. all the time.

You're always free to contact them, and state your wishes for what you want them to do.

[EFerrari]

30. Kick

[readmoreoften]

31. What are they doing anyway? Seriously. Maybe we should just stop congress from doing anything.

What? No more censures of MoveOn or official recognitions of Christianity or dedications of Post Offices? What'll happen? No more voting down of ENDA and voting up of financing the war?

Oh wait! I forgot the investigation into terrorist activity on Second Life. You know, that world that lives in the series of tubes.

[BeHereNow]

33. Impeachment is the ONLY thing that could restore us in the world view.

Which means our "representatives" have no interest in such "folly"
Empire marches on with the help of our reps, both Dem and Repuke.
BHN

[pacalo]

35. All sad reminders, but the last two pictures together...wow.

:cry:

Anyone else see "Flight 93" & wonder, like I did, why in the hell the Air Force air traffic commander was unable to reach the "President" by phone at all?

[Enrique]

36. to people living on their unemployment benefits

they would probably rather see Congress extend those benefits than impeach a president that's leaving in January anyway.

[EFerrari]

37. And that's the problem. This Congress will continue to make sure

that check is only worth as much as BushCo is willing to leave us. Because they will give him anything he wants.

How much will that check be worth by the time he leaves?

[Enrique]

52. the amount doesn't change

but it's extended for 13 weeks.

The House passed it with a veto-proof majority (Bush has threatened to veto it).

They also passed the Farm Bill, which includes an increase in food stamp benefits.

[DearAbby]

39. Paid the big bucks to multi-task

I can do more than one thing at a time, and I am paid considerably less then they are.

[trashcanistanista]

38. This has always been one of the best arguments against

the "we don't have time" bs we are repeatedly fed. Congress has acted on *'s behalf over and over it would be in this country's best interest if they were yanked off of their duties and put on an impeachment hearing. They are at this time doing irreperable harm - billions more for Iraq, investigations that lead to nothing, ripping out the 4th Amendment, denying an extra l3 weeks unemployment benefits for states hardest hit by job losses. If they don't see that this makes Dems look bad in an election year, they are not fit to be in their elected positions. If nothing else, an impeachment hearing would at least halt the contimuing damage they are doing to the country.

[EFerrari]

40. For some reason, we needed to lose something big to get it.

Something really big, like the fourth amendment.

[eppur_se_muova]

41. "Wouldn't leave time for anything else" was Ford's excuse for pardoning Nixon.

That worked out SO well.

[EFerrari]

46. Well, at least now we know we don't WANT there to be time for anything else.

[Catherina]

43. That statement is appalling especially since Conyers is one of the good guys

Failure to impeach is criminal neglect.

[EFerrari]

47. Do we want the arsons to have MORE time to set fires?

:shrug:

[Catherina]

50. It's pretty obvious Pelosi made a deal to let Bush off the hook

I wonder what Democrats got out of it other than CYA for their collaboration because we sure don't seem to have the upper hand for a majority.

[bdamomma]

65. and we know they will, cuz no one has stopped them.

and they will accomplish their PNAC agenda unless we stop them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. He said Fox News would humiliate him

That's what he told the activists who met with him last year.

[EFerrari]

48. You know I love John Conyers.

And he is wrong.

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. I used to love him

[mmonk]

51. Dang constitution. It can be such a bother sometimes.

[crickets]

53. As though he's really able to do anything now?

Given the state of things, why should he want to do anything else?

[Hubert Flottz]

54. I don't have time to vote for anyone who don't have time to honor

his oath to protect and defend the Constitution of The United States Of America.

[Senator]

55. Give Up The Gavel Chairman Chickenheart

Let Mr. Wexler show you how to lead.

The thug to your left crowed that he wasn't taking your McClellan hearing seriously -- in open contempt of the entire proceeding. You just sat there mute. You really have lost it. The same goes for your staff.

You being openly dismissed/mocked was the national soundbite.

Wexler knows what a self-respecting committee should be doing.

Get out of the way.

====

[PATRICK]

56. Do we really listen to their arguments

against impeachment? Stunned disbelief, a quick retort using simple logic, simpler justice, even simpler priorities of what can be done once the blockheads are removed from derailing endless fruitless and tainted legislation.

But what are they really revealing? Since FDR, legislative Dems have been in and out of power. When in power they flew, pontificate and dish out things fearlessly and calmly- even arrogantly. Yet when there is opposition, the hard rubber surface of the legislators kicks in, perhaps a laid down as the universal pavement for an uneasy large coalition that nervously purports to actually represent the masses and its particular activist groupings. When that rubber surface slicks up against their GOP counterparts it squeaks and slides along the right wing side. When it meets a GOP president with an agenda counter to everything Dem it bounces off with a loud boing. Overall that is, though it seems the brave voices throw off entertaining sparks from time to time.

When out of power and facing a monstrous fraud of an extremist RW lawbreaker it meets someone who has decided to play paddle ball with the Dems.

Each swing of the paddle that we consider confrontation or a test is simply a toss out of the rubber band bound Congress and a shocking smack that sends them farther out. They are glad to be attached, fearful the band will break, rattled at each contact, but acting according to their nature. Their constituents in their own curious humiliation do not understand what they are seeing and do not know why it constantly repeats and react in kind as observers each and every time.

We know now that the GOP, in marked straight line obeisance, never bounces, just plops thuds and goes sticks to their seats. Not exciting, not shocking, hardly eliciting even observation except for the noise they sometimes make to get attention. Sometimes they even try to imitate Dems, without the boing or bounce or arcing swing away from their POTUS. In the case of a Dem POTUS however they love the game of bouncing their rock-like heads off the hard central rubber ball that is the modern Dem president.

I use the analogy because we are missing the general nature of the obsessive legislation to nowhere Dems in isolating each instance of dismal contact with a corrupt obstruction in the government that should not be gamed or cooperated with but smacked. What we mistake as rubber spine instead is a general overall resilience that has an absurd effect when brought into direct conflict, inappropriate to the game at hand. Write great laws and do what you will. Slide and squeak off obstructions, bounce into opportune openings, rebound dramatically off the presidential obstacle. The rubber is corporate manufactured of late, the game old and the rubber band getting worn. This is good to keep in mind when the desire for change is overlaid over this same old surfacing. It won't be that easy, just putting them into power, aiming it like a wrecking ball only to see it amazingly bounce off the Bush entrenchments.

Our nature as believing fans is to not notice this. Their rubberized nature is not to know at all what they are doing. There are many embarrassing, unfaceable realities that barely can get discussion. Things people don't want to believe, facts that are too humiliating, behaviors rendered bizarre by the simple act of exploiting habit and ritual. Nor are Dems alone. The MSM, the entire military, the economic overlords made to drink the dregs of insanity and crime to get their money desires. Bouncing isn't so bad. No one is doing much except enabling hard surfaces of manipulation and deceit, avoiding peripheral things like law, reason, reality and the threat of ultimate, predictable disasters.

A playfully repetitious interplay isn't as bad as being in direct thrall to the petty tyrant. It is just awesomely sillier in a time of momentous crisis, hard to appreciate it even from a wider perspective.

[EFerrari]

61. I did listen to Mr. Conyers when not only his position changed

but his vocabulary as well. That's when it became clear he was channeling Pelosi.

But this "we won't be able to do anything else" objection was the very last one that made even a modicum of sense. Or, it seemed to make sense at the time even though I didn't believe it was strong enough to merit holding off impeachment. I see now how wrong I was to have even considered it in the first place.

[cascadiance]

67. The problem is that Dems want to *look* liberal but vote corporate. Repubs look & vote corporate!

So the argument can be made that Rethuglicans are more honest about their commitments. But the bottom line is that BOTH serve those that pay them to be there, the CORPORATIONS! Our government of "We the people" has been STOLEN and replaced with "We the CORPORATIONS"!

You know, I'm afraid (and I GENUINELY say this) that it won't be until a massive horrific act that would make what the Weatherman and the ELF recently have done, that will make them look like boy scouts, and what happened at Kent State look like a stroll through the park, before these idiots in Washington realize that Americans are DAMN PISSED at ALL of them now, and may at some point feel the need to have that sort of blowback before they will be heard.

Up to this point, Americans have valued their unique place in recent history of having a long period of peace and civility in our society. But I fear that is going to disappear soon unless some REAL and MEANINGFUL change happens there soon!

[PATRICK]

71. it may be

not just realism but mistaken respect for the all inclusive value of the corporate/banking world wherein fascist leanings have an extreme foothold. FDR lets the corporations off the hook, Congress more so. It has always crippled the better aspects of government and put democracy on the dole to loan sharks disguised as patriots. The rubber quality of the party is where the vehicle hits a perilous road and calls it wonderful.

Calling the bluff means that all the sweet surrenders, accommodations and pragmatism confront the stark point where all legitimacy and government itself comes unglued or the crap protects itself successfully at further cost. To impeach or even to recognize the simple truths of stolen elections and war crimes goes in its unchecked purity to the complete illegitimacy of the entire system and all its rational underpinnings. Fear thus begets fear and the pretense of movement becomes paralysis. The price for the initial balking escalates higher than the actual national debt catastrophe.

[Gregorian]

57. America is not in Washington.

The question is, where are the American people? We don't ask Conyers, we demand. And it's not Nancy Pelosi's table. IT IS OURS.

There are too many Americans, both bright and dim, who don't care enough to realize that THEY actually ARE America.

America is not in Washington. It's us. America is dying because too many Americans don't care enough to find the truth. The truth. I've spent the last week communicating with a relative I haven't seen in 30 years. He's now an attorney. And still he doesn't care about the truth. What kind of an attorney could he be, not caring about the truth.

Your post really covers about everything. It's painful to see it in pictures.

[bobbolink]

60. "And it's not Nancy Pelosi's table. IT IS OURS. "

:applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:

[cascadiance]

58. K&R! A few more pics to add to your list...

?v=0

http://inside.c-spanarchives.org:8080/cspan/Pictures/Persons/1018665/1018665-191191.jpg








http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/24521.html

[EFerrari]

62. I forgot Don! Thanks, calipendence. It's effen' endless, isn't it?

:grr:

[cascadiance]

64. That's part of our problem... With their shotgun approach it's hard for some not to slip by!

... into the cracks! And the Wingnuts and corporate Bush sympathizers (I'll leave out party name because that doesn't seem as relevant now!) rationalize that they were forgotten because they "weren't important" or "weren't really issues" or something like that!

The job is getting VERY hard now. No one person can champion all of these. We have to segment our efforts, and that hurts in doing so unless we do it in ways that still work together somehow and coordinate our efforts!

[EFerrari]

68. That's right. Rove in particular is a fire starter.

And I agree about synergy and fusion. That's exactly how we need to go forward. :hi:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

69. Already recommended...

so, :kick: