I wish reporters, when covering wildfires, would stop referring

[cboy4]

to the value of homes in the fire's path.

I'm tired of hearing, "dozens of expensive homes" are in danger.

Who cares whether they're expensive or not so expensive or "just" trailers?

It's someone's home. Period.

And having been part of a wildfire where well to do and middle class families lost belongings, I can tell you there were an equal amount of tears.

Everyone looked equally disheveled and devastated, regardless of who had more money.

You will never understand completely if you haven't experienced the terror.



Chris Simon, 12, walks through the remains of his home in Watsonville, Calif.

[Bluebear]

1. I'm bracing for this season's load of "they were only McMansions" posts

Know what I mean, jelly bean?

[cboy4]

5. I do indeed .. the usual supects will pile on, many of them

regular participants of grave dancing.

[otherlander]

9. I don't mean to sound uncaring

but at least the people with McMansions will probably have the money for a new home. The people in trailer parks, maybe not so much.

[Bluebear]

11. The people in "McMansions" also have family photographs.

Things they hold dear. Assuring yourself that they "probably" will have money for a new house does not recognize the devastation that ANYBODY would face in losing their homes.

[cboy4]

12. If it makes you feel better to disregard the suffering of

people who've lost everything, just because they have the money to rebuild...

Well, that's sad.

[Jed Dilligan]

23. The best possible outcome

would be for people to stop thinking of homes in the fire zones as desirable.

[cboy4]

26. Do you say the same thing about people who build

houses in flood prone areas near the Mississippi/Missouri/Ohio Rivers ...

And in tornado prone areas like Oklahoma/Kansas/Texas ...

And in hurricane prone areas like the coasts of Florida/Georgia/South Carolina/North Carolina/Alabama/Mississippi/Louisina?

[Jed Dilligan]

30. Yes.

The whole fucking country should move. I am not being sarcastic. The whole layout of the country needs to be reformed and reformatted. Myself included. I live on a flood plain in California because it's nine blocks from the crowded downtown where I work. It's stupid nostalgia that keeps most of our cities and suburbs where they are.

I do, however, have more sympathy for people who are stuck exploiting the economy where it is (stupidly) located than for people who choose to build new houses for themselves where they know people should not live. Malibu? I'm sick of my money bailing those people out over and over and over again.

[cboy4]

34. "The whole fucking country should move."

On boy.

:crazy:

[Jed Dilligan]

37. Or, you could just wait until you have to.

[MicaelS]

36. My post fits you to a "T"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3509967&mesg_id=3511157

[cherokeeprogressive]

42. Not to mention earthquake prone areas...

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. And not necessarily

we have locals here, who were part of the 2003 fires, who have not been able to rebuild either...

Just because you have one does not mean you have the means to rebuild, worst assumption ever

[MercutioATC]

2. It's a valuable assessment when you're talking financial damages.

The media likes to say stuff like "The fire caused $20M in damages".

Really, unless the fire was manmade, it's part of a natural cycle and there's no "damage" to the ecosystem...just to the idiots who build in a high-risk area.

[Bluebear]

4. "just to the idiots who build in a high-risk area"

Right on cue!

[cboy4]

6. Oh okay Ohio guy who doesn't understand the

topography of the West.

[MercutioATC]

7. When you build a McMansion on a remote wooded hillside pecause it's "pretty"...

...you kinda have to expect mudslides and wildfires.

What don't I "understand"?

[cboy4]

10. Well first of all, most of the homes that burn are not

"McMansions."

They are homes that have been around for a long time .. generations in many cases.

These are places, in many instances, where the brush and trees have grown around them .. not vice versa.

Many of the modern expensive homes in California you reference are built with plenty of defensible space and they have tile, fire-resistant roofs. Those aren't the majority of places that are burning by a long shot.

Many homes that burn are not in the forest or wooded hillsides.

They are built in neighborhoods, surrounded by fields which are dry year round -- especially in Southern California. The fire breaks out somewhere and jumps from tinder dry field to tinder dry field .. spotting ahead sometimes a half a mile ahead due to winds.

Are there homes that exist in wooded areas and forests? Yes.

But that seems to be your only focus. You refuse to look at the topography of the West and educate yourself that fires have always been a part of life here and a lot of California is rugged, dry, mountainous terrain.

You should really jump off the "I Hate California" express train Mercutio. It's unbecoming for you to continue your journey of mocking people who lose their homes to wildfires. :thumbsdown:

on edit...typo, since I make a lot of mistakes when I'm upset.

[MercutioATC]

16. I never said "I hate California" and you admit it yourself...

"They are built in neighborhoods, surrounded by fields which are dry year round...fires have always been a part of life here and a lot of California is rugged, dry, mountainous terrain"

If you choose to live in a neighborhood like this, you should expect that fires might be an issue.


It's like living in parts of NOLA...you live in a big bowl between two large bodies of water in a hurricane-prone area. You should probably expect that losing your home to flooding is a distinct possibility.

[uppityperson]

20. So how are things out in tornado country going this spring?

[MercutioATC]

22. If you live in Tornado Alley, you should probably expect tornadoes...

Yeah, weather sucks...

[uppityperson]

25. and when there is a tornado, can I say...

it's part of a natural cycle and there's no "damage" to the ecosystem...just to the idiots who build in a high-risk area? No, I'll have compassion and see what I can do to help.

Hoping tornado season is over soon, and a light and easy rest of the yr disasterwise. And for FEMA to get restaffed properly, and working properly.

[MercutioATC]

27. Yes, you can.

We choose where we live.

If our choice leads us to an area prone to natural "disasters", we insure for them.

If we choose to live there and don't insure, we roll the dice.


Why are you upset that I don't get all gushy about the consequences we bear when we choose to live in conflict with nature's rules? If I said that we deserve to eat poisoned fish if we choose to pollute our waters, that'd be o.k. I'm simply suggesting that those who choose to live in areas prone to certain weather phenomena should expect those phenomena to negatively impact their living situations at times.

[cboy4]

29. You are living on another planet.

It's highly disturbing you show such a lack of empathy for those who are victims of natural disasters.

There's no telling what you wrote after Katrina.

You probably thought Brownie did a heck of a job.

[MercutioATC]

31. Oh, grow a set and admit reality.

1) This thread wasn't about "empathy", it was about categorizing home values lost to fires.

2) I don't have a lack of empathy for victims of natural disasters.

3) Since you apparently have no idea what I posted after Katrina, I can't speak to what you think I might have posted.

4) Don't be an idiot. Even Bush doesn't think Brownie did a heck of a job.


I live in northeast Ohio...mostly because I grew up here. However, I've lived in Chicago, rural Illinois, and New Jersey. I could have chosen any of those places...or any other...when I was looking for a place to live. I get awful weather, few natural wonders, and a very poor economic base...but I don't have to worry about a multitude of other things. I CHOSE this situation based on the advantages and disadvantages of living here.

Every adult makes that choice. I chose to sacrifice tolerable weather and economic opportunity. Others choose to sacrifice living above sea level.

We occasionally have to pay for the wagers we make. I have empathy for those who have lost, but it's silly and irresponsible to identify it as anything more than a lost wager.

[cboy4]

33. How sad.

:(

[MercutioATC]

35. Agreed

...but for different reasons, I'm sure.

[uppityperson]

45. Black/white thinking there. Insults or "gushy".

Either I agree people are idiots for living somewhere where something can happen, or I am "gushy". No, I'm amazed at your black/white thinking here. Nothing to do with bearing responsibility, but even if you do, you still are an idiot who " build in a high-risk area."

[cboy4]

28. It's NOT a "neighborhood like this." It's entire communities that

are like that in some cases.

[MercutioATC]

32. Yes, and they're built in wildfire-prone areas.

If a random developer builds a bunch of houses in an area that's historically prone to fires, you're still not obligated to buy one of them.

[xxqqqzme]

47. It is those shake shingles roofs. Everytime I see one of those,

I think 'up in flames'. I'll never forget the picture of a cul de sac after the Laguna fires. There were 4 ash covered lots and 2 houses standing untouched w/ their bright red tiles roofs.

[Hekate]

3. Thanks--more compassion definitely needed. Regarding FLOODS, I never hear cost of homes referenced

...nor do I read the kind of contempt regularly dished out to those of us who live in the fire and earthquake zones.

It seems that not all natural disasters are created equal -- if your home is in the vast flood plain, poor you. If your home is in Tornado Alley, poor you. If you live in California, what a fool.

Please, folks, use your hearts.

Hekate

[MicaelS]

8. Hivers

With all the sneering contempt many of our "fellow" Americans display toward other Americans, if many Americans couldn't live in a:

flood zone,
hurricane zone,
tornado zone,
earthquake zone,
wildfire zone,
mudslide zone...

Just where in the hell would all these Americans live that so the sneerers couldn't look down upon them?

The answer is of course a bunch of concrete warrens in the huge hive-like buildings in hive-like mega-cities. Brings to mind the "Hives" of the that classic SF novel "The Godwhale". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Godwhale

All "Good" hivers would like in their hive, and the environment would be safe from the biota-crushing actions of the hivers. The environment would exist for "properly" monitored field trips where hivers would look, but not touch. That way the precious ecology, more important than the mere hivers, aka human beings, would not suffer. Only those who had the "right" sensabilities would be allowed to partake of the full glories of the now depopulated countryside.

Now before any of you current hivers get yourself into high moral outrage about "your" money being spent on your fellow Americans, who have suffered loss of home and hearth, well I return your contempt in spades. I resent the attention given to "your" current hives and their problems, and I resent MY money being spent on "your" problems of crime and violence. I resent my freedoms being taken away because YOU have problems. By that I mean gun control, sobriety checkpoints,and the whole fucking drug war mentality that is translating right down into the smallest towns in America.

So those dishing out contempt for those who choose to live in a place other than a hive, well remember there are plenty of us Americans who feel the same way about you and your hive.

[Hekate]

19. Ah, well, thanks. I think. Actually my statement wasn't about mutually reinforcing contempt...

...but a plea for open and compassionate hearts.

Hekate

[Tulum_Moon]

21. I love how everyone's answer is "so don't live there!"

We live in a house that is over 50 years old. And we are not that old. You have no idea if one us of grew up in this house and inherited it or not. This housing tract is surrounded by Burton mesa, oak trees, scrub oak, and chaparral. The only crime committed around here is that it is now illegal for property owners, or fire dept, to clear 100 feet away from family dwellings. Thank you "Friends of the Burton Mesa". I agree that all this land should be put aside for recreation and wildlife. There are dirt walking and dirt bike paths that we use all the time. These are great, but to get a county ordinance passed so our neighborhood cant be protected from a firestorm in a drought like this? We are a tinderbox waiting to go up. We don't sit sit around. Most of the fire firefighters that work in this part of the county live in this small community. They are almost all out fighting to save other peoples homes right now. Bless them all. I hope the save as many homes as they can. I also hope the people who lose their homes can recover as much as possible. Even if it is one special baby memento. I don't care how RICH they are.

[Jed Dilligan]

38. You're sick in the head if you think smart growth/high density development

is some kind of weird plot to control people.

[bullwinkle428]

13. Just like with the flooding here in Iowa, where I live - there seems

to be an implied message on the part of a few posters here, along the lines of, "Well, they're white farmers or white business people with lots of money, so it's no big deal for them to rebuild their lives!" :mad:

Pisses me off!!!

[cboy4]

14. Yup. I don't blame you for being mad.

x(

[Jed Dilligan]

24. Can't they just suck up your water with a big hose or something

and throw it on our fires?

:sarcasm:

[Donald Ian Rankin]

15. I think it's relevant information.

While, obviously, losing your home is just as distressing if you're rich or poor, that doesn't mean that the type of district being destroyed isn't information worth including in a summary for viewers not themselves affected.

In particular, whether it's cheap homes or expensive ones will make a big difference to insurers, which may have a knock-on effect on the cost of home insurance.

[JohnnK]

18. yea

just like blonde white girls that go missing get more coverage than others...sucks but thats just how the media is...

[Sequoia]

39. Then there are those people who view the fires and say

about one's home that's burned down: "He must've had bad karma". On the CBS page about the fire strike fires in Northern Cal you can comments posted that it's God's angry way of dealing with those gay marriages. And the floods in the midwest is God telling us....? People are so stupid. My husband's car, job and home were all destroyed in that Topagna fire some years ago and many lost their expensive homes too but home is home no matter how rich or poor you might be.

[cboy4]

43. Absolutely. Well said.

:thumbsup:

[SemiCharmedQuark]

40. It goes hand in hand with their penchant to assign value to a child's life based on GPA

"John Doe, an HONORS student, was reported missing today."

or

"John Doe, an honors student and all star athlete was reported missing"

or

"The suspect attacked John Doe, an honors student!"

As though they have to qualify the kid for our sympathy.

[leftofthedial]

41. don't build houses in fire danger zones

don't build houses on cliffsides that are prone to mudslides

don't build homes in flood zones



nothing can stop hundred-year (or three-hundred-year) floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc.

but if you build a home in the trees in the west, it will burn. it's just a matter of when.

[cboy4]

44. Are you telling me that that flooding and tornadoes and

hurricanes only happen in 100-year/300 year scenarios?

The people who live near creeks and streams and rivers don't receive nearly the amount of hate that victims of fire receive.

You seem critically misinformed about this subject .. especially when you insinuate that the homes which burn are built "in the trees."

WRONG.

[leftofthedial]

48. I've lived all my life in the west cboy4

build your house in the forest, especially exurb forest, and the odds are very great that it will burn eventually.

floods like those in Iowa this year are extremely rare. forest fires in underburned arid western forests are not.

[Midlodemocrat]

46. I'll never understand the callous nature of some posters here

in regards to these fires, tornado damages or the flooding.

It was someone's HOME. Having money doesn't replace the irreplaceable. The pictures. The heirlooms. The plastic crap that your mom gave you before she died.

[HEyHEY]

49. It's just an adjective

Have they said how many "People have been evacuated" yet? Schmucks.