Is Cindy McCain's drug problem fair game?

[BurtWorm]

Here is an argument from Lindsay Beyerstein in favor of keeping McCain's drug issues in the public eye:

http://majikthise.typepad.com/majikthise_/2008/06/background-on-c.html


Harold Pollack argues that Democrats should refrain from trashing Cindy McCain for her history of drug addiction.

There's no shame in being a recovering addict--or an active user for that matter, provided your habit isn't hurting other people. However, Cindy McCain chose to feed her addiction in particularly loathsome ways.

When you're as rich and well-connected as she is, there are ways to feed a prescription drug habit that don't involve pressuring your underlings to commit crimes on your behalf.

Cindy McCain stole drugs from a medical charity. It doesn't get much lower than that. Worse still, she used her employees' names to obtain drugs, and even enlisted some her her staff to pick up those prescriptions on her behalf. She also used the DEA numbers of multiple physicians who worked for the American Voluntary Medical Team to obtain drugs, often without the doctors' knowledge. (Cf. Laura Silverman's excellent reporting on the McCain drug scandal.)

Doctors can be bankrupted and even prosecuted for irregular prescribing patterns. So, McCain was risking the futures of multiple families when she ordered hundreds of pain pills on the sly. One of the doctors who worked with McCain at AVMT lost his license to practice medicine over the diversion scandal.

Cindy McCain's self-indulgence ruined lives. She has publicly apologized for taking the drugs without permission, but I'm not aware of any apologies for pressuring her employees to risk their futures to feed her addiction.


...

[Bucky]

1. No.

Obama says families are off limits. He's right.

[BurtWorm]

8. John McCain seems to be deeply implicated in his wife's "problem"

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/content/printVersion/161307

Opiate For the Mrs.

When laws are broken, somebody's got to be punished. In the case of Cindy McCain, that somebody is Tom Gosinski

By Amy Silverman, Jeremy Voas
published: September 08, 1994

You're U.S. Senator John McCain, and you've got a big problem. Your wife, Cindy, was addicted to prescription painkillers. She stole pills from a medical-aid charity she heads and she used the names of unsuspecting employees to get prescriptions.

The public is about to find out about it. Until now, you've managed to keep it all quiet. When Tom Gosinski, a man your wife fired, sued for wrongful termination and threatened to expose the whole sordid story, you didn't hesitate to call in the big guns.

John Dowd, the attorney who got you out of your Keating Five mess, worked on getting your wife a sweetheart deal with federal prosecutors. He also made Gosinski's lawsuit go away.

He didn't stop there. To help maintain your reputation and discredit your wife's accuser, Dowd called Maricopa County Attorney Richard Romley and complained that Gosinski was trying to extort money. Romley, your Republican ally, promptly launched an extortion investigation.

But now New Times makes a public records request for documents in the extortion case. It's only a matter of days before the story gets out.

Here's what the senator does. He calls in another big gun, political strategist Jay Smith, who conceives a rather remarkable plan.


...


<See also: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/10/18/drugs/print.html>

[lyonn]

17. Fair Game

The average person doesn't get cut this slack as McCain did during the Keating episode and Cindy with her drug addiction. Michelle would not and has not received this kind of consideration with her simple statement concerning her pride in America. You could compare this to my disgust for America since George took over and trashed it. As George Carlin said, people are dumber than you think.

If the repubs are going to play this game than it is important to return the favor.

[Virginia Dare]

40. I doubt that the right wing smear machine cares about that...n/t

[NightWatcher]

2. all's fair in love and war (and politics). RW'ers will use code words to refer to Obama being BLACK

so I say we use everything we have against them too.

John McSame is old, and mentally unstable, possibly after spending 4+ years as a POW.
Cindy McBeer is a rich old pill popping lush who rips off cookie recipies

[ben_meyers]

27. Not to mention that they will use Obama's admitted use of

illegal drugs (pot and cocaine) in his past against him.

[underpants]

3. I asked this a few months ago and my opinion hasn't really changed

which is that that is off limits. That being said I still think some potshots are in order from time to time

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=6396508

[jobycom]

15. Hey, you're pretty good at that, maybe you should run!

"I think no, unless I decide to make it yes from time to time." :rofl:

Maybe that's not such a bad strategy. "No, I refuse to attack Cindy McCain on her drug addictions and stealing from her charities. So anyone who brings up Cindy's drug addiction or her theft from her charities to sustain her habit, will be punished in the same way that Cindy McCain punished the whistle blower who revealed her drug use and charity robbing. Got it?"

[underpants]

41. I like that!!

:rofl:

[ljm2002]

47. You're the one who's good!

I like your formulation, we ought to try it.

[calimary]

60. I referred to her in a column once as "the conservative blonde heiress."

Helps further plant the "elitism" seed. Couldn't be more elitist if she were Nancy Reagan.

And YES, I think as long as she insists on opening her own yap to make smart-ass remarks against Michelle Obama, then YES, IT IS ABSOLUTELY FAIR GAME. DAMN STRAIGHT!!! Nobody's standing there behind her with their hands on some string pulley mechanisms making her lips move or throwing their voice into hers. She's doing this on her own. She thus cannot be considered a non-combatant as long as that's true. She has also not apologized or retracted what she's said, or tried to ameliorate it in any way.

All's FAIR on miz cindy. Especially since she volunteered for this. If you don't want to get messed up in this dirty business, dear Leather Babe, then shut your trap. Keep your pissy little country-club put-downs to yourself!

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

66. You're a riot! Best post I've read in a while...

Too funny.

[Vanje]

4. Yes

Its not the addiction, its the stealing.
She ruined the whistle-blower's career.

[Dora]

7. I agree with you. nt

[yardwork]

5. I was inclined to give the chimp a pass on his drug and alcohol problems...

and we see where that got us. The chimp is clearly still using, despite his big talk about being in recovery during the campaign of 2000.

That said, we're talking about the candidate's wife, not the candidate himself. I think we should focus on the many issues that McCain himself presents.

[pampango]

10. Agreed. If it was McCain himself, then it's fair game, but not his wife. n/t

[BurtWorm]

12. I think Cindy McCain's drug problem is John McCain's drug problem

For reasons explained here:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/10/18/drugs/print.html

[jobycom]

6. I think it's a losing strategy, for two main reasons.

First, it's not what Democrats are good at, so it's likely to just look like bullying. We can win without it.

Second, Cindy McCain has done a lot of good, too. Her involvement in charities involving children seems sincere, and the story of her adopting the child with the cleft pallet at the request of Mother Theresa is sure to earn "Awww" points every time it's told. So if we attack her on a drug addiction that ended fourteen years ago, they will bring up her attributes, and she may come out looking good and helping John.

I can't think of a case where attacking a spouse caused a candidate to lose the presidency. Maybe one could say that the attacks on Theresa Kerry hurt John Kerry's chances, but I don't think they played a big role.

Just my thoughts. Probably wrong, so best to ignore them.

[BurtWorm]

16. It's not just drug addiction. It's also the criminal activity she engaged in to get her drugs.

And John McCain's role in making sure her problem didn't get in the way of his political ambitions.

[jobycom]

18. Yeah, maybe, but I still don't think so.

Although, if you can link McCain to specific strings being pulled to get special treatment that others had no access to, that could be an issue. I just don't see it getting much mileage, and having a lot more chance of backfiring.

But I'm predisposed against it, anyway, so maybe I'm not objective enough. A big part of the reason I'm Democrat is because I despise that type of campaigning, and it's usually the Republicans who do it. That doesn't seem to be the belief of the Democratic Party anymore, though.

[defendandprotect]

30. Agree. . . look at Rush's "illegal prescriptions" . . . went no where . .. he's still on the air-!

PLUS, you have to be willing to go all the way if you start this re Cindy ---

you have to be a GOP viper --- and who has the stomach for that?

[BurtWorm]

34. Thank goodness some people will

and it will peel votes from McCain, not from Obama.

[defendandprotect]

35. OK -- but what will it make Democrats look like . . . ???

And what new attacks on, perhaps, Michelle Obama will that trigger?

[BurtWorm]

44. Those attacks against Michelle are going to come no matter what Dems do.

Republicans (and the media) cannot help themselves. They love to villify strong women. So whatever the Dems do or don't do about this drug issue, Michelle Obama will be considered fair game.

[defendandprotect]

72. Not necessarily . . . . an attack on Cindy using the drug issue would be low . . .

therefore, the GOP would go even lower . . . and it would look acceptable because

of the lowness of the Democratic attack.

Again -- try to understand that Rush's drug "scandal" kind of landed with a thud because

he used the issue of health and authentic medications --

it would be the same with the Cindy "scandal" --- if it's attached to HEALTH, it will thud.

[defendandprotect]

73. MEANWHILE, also notice that McCain's involvement with Keating 5 is a quiet "scandal" ---

not making much noise -- a lot to explain there --

The public has to be reminded of it --- and/or have it explained to them.

[defendandprotect]

74. And if you look at the latest McCain "scandal" it's about dallying with a LOBBYIST . . .

but emphasis was put on the AFFAIR .... IMO in hopes of making McCain look better!

But there was questionable stuff going on with this lobbyist PLUS an affair.

So -- where are you on working that one????

Another media thud ---

[BurtWorm]

31. I'm against the sort of vicious ratfucking Republicans do

in which they make shit up or turn strengths into weaknesses, or molehills into mountains. In this case, it looks like Cindy McCain really abused her office, endangered many of her employees, including one who went to prison for illegally procuring her drugs. That's not a molehill and it's not nothing.

[jobycom]

43. As am I, which is why I would hate our side to do it.

You walk a line attacking Cindy McCain that way. She's the wife of a candidate no one is giving much chance, anyway, for something she did fourteen years ago while addicted to pain medication she began taking after a horribly painful surgery. Yeah, she behaved badly, but she admitted she behaved badly and made legal amends, and hasn't done it, to anyone's knowledge for fourteen years. I don't see much mileage in that, I see as much potential for backlash, and I don't see much point in it, considering that Obama's strengths are his positive image and the belief that he can change things.

[BurtWorm]

48. It's another piece of the puzzle.

Obama doesn't have to touch it. The DNC doesn't have to touch it--unless they think they can get a handle on featuring the criminality and coverup of criminality it alleges, which is relevant to John McCain's candidacy. But the blogoshpere can certainly keep it smouldering. It's another piece of the puzzle, another good reason for someone who doesn't think there's much difference between Obama and McCain to vote against McCain.

[ljm2002]

46. Respectfully, I disagree...

...we can't cave just because she can draw on the "Awww..." factor.

Basically we can't take the offensive on it. However, every time someone tries to smear Michelle, the response should be twofold: (1) we thought candidates' wives were off limits, and we would like to maintain that and run a clean campaign; and (2) however, since the attacks on Michelle continue, we feel we must point out that Cindy not only had a drug problem but she stole from her own charity, asked employees to procure drugs for her, forged signatures, and ruined the career of a whistle-blower; (3) when they cry "foul", just cry "foul" right back.

It's a basic principle in life: don't start shit, but when someone else starts it, never ever take shit -- dish it right back in their faces.

[defendandprotect]

9. How about we take the questions into the FUTURE instead of the past?

Though, that still keeps McCain's position on overturning Roe vs Wade very important ---

But what about our futures, if we have any?

Global Warming, nationalizing oil industry, stop coal burning, stop nuclear power plant building,
ozone hole, planting hemp, making marijuana available for EVERYONE's health benefits, Electric cars,
repairing and maintaining infrastructure, ending the Fed Reserve's power over our economy, letting
Treasury print our dollar bills again, getting corporations out of any involvement in our elections,
ending computer counting machines and ensuring that there is always backup paper/pen for valid
recounts.....

Ending subsidizing of Catholic Church --- how much $$ have they invested in our political leaders/legislators???

STOP the war -- bring the troops home.

STOP torturing people -- reestablish the Geneva Accords as law of the land ---

Habeas Corpus ---

End Patriot Act ---

Depoliticize FEMA and other government agencies ---

End corporate monopoly of our "free press" --- bring back "Fairness in Broadcasting" ---


Let's not discuss Cindy's drug use or anyone's hair -- PLEASE . . .

Politics effects your life every moment of your life --- and your children's lives ---

let's act like it!!!

[BurtWorm]

14. I bet you don't know what her drug problem is. Or John McCain's role in covering it up.

And more to the point of whether he deserves to be present, his role in passing the buck to someone else to take the rap for his wife, so as not to fuck up his own political ambitions.

I think it's fair game. All pieces of the puzzle.

[defendandprotect]

26. You're right . . . I'm only vaguely familiar with it ---

As I recall it was somehow connected to a health issue?

Meanwhile . . . do we want to attack wives?

[BurtWorm]

28. If the wives are criminals, yes.

If the husband tried to cover up the wife's criminal activity, yes.

[defendandprotect]

32. Why don't you start with Rush, who's a drug criminal . . . and get him off the air ?

If that works, THEN you can move on to Cindy --- !!!

[defendandprotect]

33. I do think, however, that the issue should be circulated on the internet . . .

so that anyone voting can know about it and judge for themselves ---

[libodem]

59. Put very well

and with a mature and reasoned attitude. Thanks for stopping me from asking what they would be saying at Free Republic if the shoe were on the other foot. I commend your insight. I know good thinkin' when I sees it.

[BobRossi]

11. Hell yes!

Destroy McW by any means.

[polichick]

13. Sure - especially when she's taken the low road re: Michelle Obama...

But Barack would say no.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

19. Do people really care about what a potential First Lady does or says?

Personally I don't care either way. But then I question why American politics seems to have to drag in the spouse, the children, the church, the religion, the dog, the cat, and all the other 'goody-goody' accoutrements. In Europe, voters usually don't want to see or know who the candidate is sleeping with and would find it strange that someone would base their vote upon the activities of their candidate's lover.

[notesdev]

20. Let's get a second opinion

What does Kitty Dukakis think of the matter?

[BurtWorm]

29. Did Kitty Dukakis commit any crimes?

Did Michael help cover up her crimes?

[samplegirl]

21. In my opinion....she is fair game

because believe me if they had that on Michelle they would be using it to the extreme. Come on I heard Laura Ingram say that knocking knuckles was a terrorist sign.
People need to remember that a lot of the older generation get their information strickly from the media. Their propaganda has worked to get votes.
They ruined Howard Dean over a scream for Gods sake! I beleive the only way to overide them is to bring out the truths to the old timers who do not use internet.

[gatorboy]

22. Why not have it both ways?

You can have everyone word the argument like so:

"Please leave Cindy McCain alone about her drug addiction and theft of drugs from a medical charity."

See, you get the anti- McCain message out and still sound like you care. :P

[Obamarama]

23. Absofuckinglutely!

If Michelle Obama had the same, publicly verifiable track record as Mrs. McCain, you can bet the GOP would package and peddle it in a New York minute. We need to match these cretins at their own fucking game. If we're not out for blood in this campaign, we're nuts.

[samplegirl]

36. I will never forget...the swift-boating

in which some believe cost Kerry the election. Your right we need to play down and dirty. They have it coming to them...and they would use it or invent falsehoods to climb.
We have to be every bit as dirty as they are...except that we have the truth not fabrications or assumptions like they have used to ruin our party members.

[WritersBlock]

24. I say show her and him every bit as much consideration as our candidates have received

over the past several elections.

The old adage is true when you're playing politics with neocons and wingers: Nice guys finish last.

The country can't afford for us to keep being nice for much longer.

[samplegirl]

37. I'm glad to see a few people agree with me.

[katandmoon]

25. Go after the bitch with both barrels blazing

That's the only thing repugs understand.

[samplegirl]

39. When you show the GOP respect...

what do you get??? Ask Nancy Pelosi.

[FredScuttle]

38. Yes

That home-wrecking, pill-stealing tramp thinks she can open her mouth about Michelle Obama without consequence? Sheeeeeeeeeit.

[drbtg1]

42. "Whether she's stealing drugs,stealing cookie recipes,...

...or stealing someone else's husband, is this the type of first lady you want?"

There's the message the surrogates need to send out. Forget the addiction part, plenty of people know and have sympathy for an addict they know. The fact that she's a thief is what should be known about her!

[Coexist]

50. that is a perfect slogan - it plays on her theft, not her addiction, and how unsavory

and manipulative she is, even when sober.

[drbtg1]

55. Thanks. I also thought it would further the conversation.

Chances are, since the McCains have their corporate media free pass, that whoever hears that line doesn't know the stories behind all three items.

[JudyInTheHeartland]

45. Yes it is.

She used her position of authority to break the law and feed her addiction.

That's important information for voters.

[Bluebear]

49. Welcome to DU, Judy!

[leftofthedial]

51. EVERYTHING is on the table

politics is a gutter brawl. high mindedness loses. Everything about John's "C**t" is on the table.

[Vickers]

52. I'll treat her with the same respect given Hillary Clinton when her

husband was running for President.

[bunkerbuster1]

53. Anyone think they'd give Michelle a minute's rest if she'd done half that stuff?

Yes, yes, yes. Cindy's past personal failings are fair game.

[Stinky The Clown]

54. Yes, and for damned good reasons.

She is an unindicted felon.

Her husband worked to keep her unindicted.

[City Lights]

56. I'd rather see her exposed for stealing drugs from her own charity rather

than the drug addiction itself. Exposing the special treatment she received after she got caught will show which candidate is the well-connected elitist.

[pleah]

57. YES!

[SoCalDem]

58. If her husband is running for public office...yes..

If they are a normal couple, just living their lives, doing their own thing...no

If you are married to someone who has something shameful in their past, you might want to reconsider your own ambitions , if you CHOOSE to undertake something in YOUR career, that will cause extra scrutiny to the lives & aspirations of your family.

The times we live in are DIFFERENT from times gone by.. The driving records of CHILDREN of candidates are fair game, so surely EVERYTHING that has ever been in a newspaper, or magazine, about your family or anyone IN your family, is "fair game".

It may not be "nice", but then stealing drugs intended for pain relief for post-surgical poor children is not "nice" either..(in addition to being ILLEGAL).

If Cindy McCain's name had been Shaniqua Jones, she would still be doing time in jail somewhere.

[mulsh]

61. she can pay for excellent press and even better rehab.

the other side will not cut any slack for those on our side so yes she's fair game and so is her husband and his hirelings. hit them with every nasty aspect of their corrupt and shallow little lives. they're trying to do the same to our guys.

[Dogtown]

62. Absolutely not

It's an illness. One shared by many more people than we acknowledge.

Actually, that is primo backfire-bait; no one with any sense would support it.

[BurtWorm]

65. Unless they knew more details than you apparently do

with all due respect.

[Dogtown]

68. Even educating myself in this thread

(and i was unaware of the particulars, I will admit), I can not concur, BurtWorm.

Not out of feigned morality, or sympathy for the woman, or concern for her illness.

Not only is it possible that the negativity and incivility could discourage swingers, but it's a wasted effort. I seriously don't think that Everyman will be swayed; it will strike them as boring and possibly contrived (this last because the facts are quite outrageous. Many will actually sympathize with her and excuse those excesses.

We'd likely lose many "recovering" votes and to be honest we have the same percentage of used-to-bees as the opposition. Maybe they drank scotch instead of Bud, or dropped oxy instead of 'ludes, but you see my point.

Wasted effort that might have a slight negative effect? That's time to take the higher path and not wallow to no avail.

Sorry if I sounded smarmy, I should have enlarged my post to explain my tactical view.

You might still disagree, but at least you won't think i'm a chump!

:hi:

EDIT: "preview" is as much my friend as "spellcheck"...

[BurtWorm]

70. I appreciate your revisiting the topic.

:hi:

And I certainly respect your opinion. I don't claim to have the final answer on it. I think we agree that the key question is not one of politeness but of politics--of the political effect this info would have on the electorate. I think we'd probably aslo agree that the jury is still out on the question.

[Dogtown]

71. yep, pretty much

Glad it isn't up to me, I'm a dedicated under-achiever!

And thanks for your patience and civility!

[RamboLiberal]

63. Yes if she and the RW continue to attack Michelle Obama

You know if either Michelle or Hillary had this in their past we'd never hear the end of it.

[Iggo]

64. It's fair game for me.

If she's campaigning, she's fair game.

[Puer Rex]

67. Now I get it.

I wondered why old"silver eyes" declared herself not fair game. Of course she is fair game when the Repubs go after Michelle as we know they will. They can't help themselves.

[Baby Snooks]

69. She should have been prosecuted...

"Cindy McCain stole drugs from a medical charity. It doesn't get much lower than that. Worse still, she used her employees' names to obtain drugs, and even enlisted some her her staff to pick up those prescriptions on her behalf. She also used the DEA numbers of multiple physicians who worked for the American Voluntary Medical Team to obtain drugs, often without the doctors' knowledge."

If you or I had done that, we would have been allowed to enter a drug rehabilitation program as well although the drug rehabilitation program we would have been allowed to enter would have been in prison.

"One of the doctors who worked with McCain at AVMT lost his license to practice medicine over the diversion scandal."

I somehow suspect he will be voting for Barack Obama.

Anyone who doesn't believe the Republicrats wanted Hillary Clinton in the White House needs to look at who they backed as their own nominee.

The only thing that will keep Barack Obama out of the White House is the racist Democrats who will either not vote or vote for John McCain. A growing number of Republicans are looking at Barack Obama as the only choice in November.

[opihimoimoi]

75. She is a rare BAP ...Blonde American Princess....Fave Whine: When ya taking me Traveling again?

[Super Soaker Sniper]

76. It shouldn't be

unless Obama's own admission of drug use is fair game also. Like it or not, every campaign has it own "don't go there" topics and issues. Fair game for one candidate, like it or not becomes fair game for both candidates.

I keep using sports analogies, but they do illustrate what I try to point out. When one pitcher throws at an opposing batter's head, the other team's pitcher can do one of two things. Let it go and maybe things get back to normal or he can throw to the head of the opposing team's hitter, spark a brawl and let everything get extremely ugly. In the end, evrything would have worked out better if no one had thrown at anyone's head in the first place.

[lonestarnot]

77. Yes and was found to be shopping when she was supposed to be on house arrest.

[Bluerthanblue]

78. trash her? no need- Simply state the facts- and let them

speak for themselves.

She isn't what the image makers want everyone to believe she is.


peace~

[cushla_machree]

79. No

Cindy has already paid her debt over this, she paid restitution, did community service and attended counseling sessions.

Addicts do terrible things to feed their addictions. I've had family members sell my belongings that i loaned them to buy their cocaine. I aggree its a black mark on her for her past...but i am not going to use it against McCain. Rich people do drugs, and do community service. Poor people get thrown in prison, isn't that the way of it?

[Jade Fox]

80. Yes. So is her petty recipe stealing......

because the latter is clearly an attempt to make her look more like the housewife she's not, but she's too freaking lazy to find some original recipes! Small, but dishonest and cynical beyond belief.

[unkachuck]

81. I am shocked and disappointed....

"Cindy McCain stole drugs from a medical charity. It doesn't get much lower than that."....oh, dear....

....grandpa, an uber-patriot, war-hero, conservative and an all around right-wing family values man has chosen a sneaky recovering drug addict for an old-lady?

....Daughters of the American Revolution type woman would have made a much better right-wing grandma for you johnny....you need help fast....

....allow me....we need to find you another fall-guy, a ruse....yes, it's too late to divorce her now, that'll look contrived and self-serving....yet that presidency bug has bitten you bad....what exactly to do?

....I've got it!....hide her!....make her your chauffeur!....tell the world she's disappeared....put your presidential campaign on hold, send out search parties in all directions and scour the countryside for your beloved....and you johnny, our super-war-hero, will lead the world-wide search for his missing love....

....they'll find nothing of course, but in the end there will be tremendous sympathy, love, caring and empathy for you and her from everyone, including the shitty press....even us liberals....

....it'll work johnny, it can't lose....think about it....

[Canuckistanian]

82. I'd say NO

Drug addiction is not a crime.

God knows we've all known someone who's a victim through no fault of their own.

It's not like she's been crusading against drug users FOR YEARS, like Limbaugh. He's "fair game".

[Iggo]

83. Stealing drugs is a crime, though.