Hardballers bending over BACKWARDS defending Charlie Black

[Gabi Hayes]

they've shown Hillary saying something similar last year, but CM, Mrs. Greenspan, and Chuck Todd are going overboard rationalizing Black's call for a terror strike, as some might characterize his words

not ONE word about how disgusting the comment was. not one word about playing the politics of fear

and not ONE mention of Obama's response, Kerry's response

so far, anyway

amazing

EDIT: thanks to malaise for this

[Gabi Hayes]

1. not ONE WORD about upon whose watch 911 occurred, or that, if

something terrible happened, it would be BUSH who'd be blamed

they STILL keep saying an attack would HELP McCain!

not even a mention of the possibility that the repubs can't protect us

I really can't believe what I'm seeing

[DefenseLawyer]

2. The herd protecting their own.

Charlie Black is the insider's insider.

[Gabi Hayes]

4. exactly....the herd instinct at its worst. even CNN's Anderson Cooper

headlined a segment on this called Politics of Fear.

course they whitewashed the comments almost entirely, downplaying the significance

NEXT: a discussion of Obama's problems with......Dobson!!! then, a discussion of his problem with the lies being told about his being a Muslim, but couched, not in terms of the despicable pattern of lies being told by McCain surrogates, but that he has a real PROBLEM with being thought of as Muslim

why on earth am I watching?

click

[southern_belle]

3. k & r n/t

[NMDemDist2]

5. huh?

who is Charlie Black and what did he say and why should I care?

[Gabi Hayes]

14. huh? why are you reading DU?

huh?

jesus

go to the lounge if you want to be entertained

[NMDemDist2]

29. what? nice response dude. I've been gone for 3 days and asking for info

:shrug:

[Gabi Hayes]

32. waaaa, your query wasn't so very polite, now, was it?

"and why should I care?"

dude

do you fault me for responding in kind

I apologize for my snippiness, dude

how's that?

your turn

[NMDemDist2]

35. i just scanned the entire Greatest page and still haven't found a "Charlie Black" thread

but Google was kind enough to add the name to the "terrorist attack would help McCain" BS

so now I'm up to speed.... what was your OP about again?


:rofl:

[Gabi Hayes]

37. not til you

apologize for being so mean to me

I have very thin skin

here's a hint

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3512092

[NMDemDist2]

51. your thin skin is none of my business

:evilgrin:

however, I am widely known as a very sweet DUer and a good Democrat, so I will certainly say I am very sorry if I offended

:hi:

[Gabi Hayes]

53. fine and danderoo. do I get the last word?

[NMDemDist2]

56. if you must

:yoiks:

[Gabi Hayes]

58. yippee!

[AlCzervik]

6. you gave me shit for watching 30 minutes of Charlie Rose and you're watching Hardball?

[Gabi Hayes]

10. did I give you a hard time? I just said Rose is an asskissing phony, or something

close to that, yes?

I admit I have a problem

I can't help myself

now they're giving Dobson credence

let me see if I can find the bit about how he claimed in a book that Clinton had a penis drawing contest!!!!


Garry Wills wrote about it in a column of his, and he and Dobson had a dustup over it, during which Dobson refused to come clean

let's see if I can find it

[Hubert Flottz]

7. ter·ror·ism

1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrorism

Does MSNBC support Terrorism?

[Gabi Hayes]

12. indirectly, but Charlie Black, I'd say is INCITING terrorism

why hasn't he been fired?

why weren't the dems' responses to this even AIRED?

could it be that they didn't want anyone to get even a glimmer of just how outrageous the comment was, ala "bring 'em on?"

[Hubert Flottz]

17. RE: why hasn't he been fired?

Could it be that McCain is even more short sighted and just plain old ignorant, than the arrogant trash in and around the White House right now? Don't forget that Rove and Bush have used the fear of terrorism as a political weapon since 9/11/01.

Think about all the fake alerts and the lies...How many times has Bush played the "TERROR" card?

Terrorists attempt to rule and subjugate by the use of FEAR...

"1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government."

ter·ror·i·za·tion,

1. to fill or overcome with terror.
2. to dominate or coerce by intimidation.
3. to produce widespread fear by acts of violence, as bombings.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrorization

[Gabi Hayes]

20. he won't be fired, because there is NO OUTRAGE in the media for this.

after all, what's worse, and what got more air/ink?

that comment, or, for example, Hillary saying she got shot at? Edwards' haircut?
Edwards' house? the M$M controls the parameters of all political discussion, especially TV news, because they control what's discussed

[Hubert Flottz]

22. We need to keep this story on the front burner right here...

So I gave you three :kick: s and an R!

Charlie Black is a sleazy scumbag just like Bush...maybe even worse and McCain will use anything including TERROR to get what he wants.(just like Bush and Rove have)

[malaise]

27. M$M is attacking the Dems for outrage alert

I cannot believe this

[ErinBerin84]

8. yep ,it's actually kind of funny

Chuck Todd, Andrea Mitchell, and Chris Matthews are saying that it's such a tragedy that someone could get in trouble for "being honest and telling the truth!" At the beginning of the segment, Chuck Todd looked crestfallen and actually said "Charlie Black is known for being a straight shooter and being honest with the media , and now maybe he won't be such a straight shooter to the media anymore!" Cry me a fucking river.

[Supersedeas]

26. trouble for telling the truth -- the truth according to whom: the Media Cheerleaders??

[Gabi Hayes]

42. the CW Herd. they live in a separate reality, most clearly and nauseatingly demonstrated

last week during the state funeral of the leading water carrier, and most influential 'journalist' of the day

they really do live in their own, insulated world, creating their own narratives, which pass on unimpeded to the credulous news consumers

first thing I read on this, after On Bended Knee, was Fooling America, by Robert Parry, who dealt directly with conventional wisdom, the herd instinct, and how no reporter that valued his career dared be cut out from the journalistic herd and go against the wisdome of his peers

[pacalo]

44. Unbelievable.

Now if someone on the left had said out loud that if a particular person had been shot in the head, this country would have been spared a lot of major mistakes, they would have been knocked back a dozen Sundays.

[malaise]

9. Check this link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3512092&mesg_id=3512092

Note the GEM$NBC report
The Obama camp is pressing to keep the Charlie Black flap alive, but not quite asking for him to be fired. Today, the Obama campaign hit McCain and Black with a conference call with 9/11 Commission member Richard Ben-Veniste.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/06/24/1164198.aspx

[Gabi Hayes]

13. thanks for that, and for all the other stuff you've posted....isn't it amazing

that these responses are being completely ignored today?

this story is gone tomorrow, cause, as I said, the dems will not be allowed to keep it alive, and if they try, they'll be ridiculed for pumping a nonstory/being crybabies, etc

[Gabi Hayes]

15. and "thanks for all the fish"

this goes into the OP.....much obliged

[malaise]

24. LOL

:hi:

[malaise]

16. They should use it in ads n/t

[Gabi Hayes]

18. moveon might. dems don't have the fortitude. they'd be EXCORIATED

in the media for going over the line, and they can't have that

dems must always run an eggshell campaign, as everything they say/do is under the M$GOPM microscope

people don't realize the power of the Right Wing Noise Machine

David Brock's book couldn't have a more appropriate title

[malaise]

23. Outrage alert - that's what the hack

on Gregory's show is screaming. I cannot believe these people.

[Gabi Hayes]

28. really...did I call it or not? Jay Carney, IIRC. just posted on that very subject

'tiresome,' he called it

that's exactly what I said would happen

he ridiculed the BenVeniste statement today

they're so predictable

dems' only shot is that things are SO bad that everything the M$M says is in such diametric conflict with reality that they'll just stop paying attention

and vote a reality-based agenda

I have my doubts

[malaise]

30. Yes you called it since yesterday

I give up.

[tom_paine]

33. Yes. I agree 100% down the line.

I absolutely had no guess, no idea, even ten years ago, just how severe our M$GOPM (love that anacronym) imbalance has become.

How it could be done so subtly, boiling the frog by slightly raising the temperature each time.

People don't seem to realize that a portion of the reasons behind the behavior of the Nancy Capitulosis of the world is because of their utter inability to deal with not only the Bush Lie Machine but the Toady M$GOPM Media that trails behind them licking the slime trail and following along.

They didn't see it coming and they have no idea how to deal with it now, even Obama. They just bend and twist inside an ever tightening frame of Bushie and M$GOPM straightjacket, trying to avoid the M$GOPM taser. They get it no matter what they do.

What we are seeing is not remarkable in any way, though it stil astonishes in it's "but the Emperor has no clothes audacity". We have seen it literally at least a hundred times before, probably more than that.

Gleichschaltung, plain and simple. If you don't know the word, Google it.

I am just in awe at the evil genius and long-term planning it took to create, when I look at it. It WORKS. And no one is the wiser, almost no one. Amazing.

The Science of Propaganda, of Lying, or creating Groupthink through the delivery system of Modern Media Saturation is so far advanced from anything Hitler or the Soviets had.

What it comes down to is the M$GOPM, almost every corner of the Cable TV part of it, anyone watching it day after day is getting pretty much a 24/7 anti-Democratic Party commerical. Not as out-front as some parts, like FOX, but as relentless nonetheless.

I watched it for a couple years early on, to see if I could confirm for myself what I was hjearing on the Web. In a very short time, almost all of it was confirmed. I had, for years by then, been watching and not noticing the "warming water under the frog" for years.

Now, as I blinked my eyes, the water was bubbling steadily, so to speak.

And for all our efforts, for all the letters and calls and comments, eight years later and it's as bad or WORSE.

Tipping point.

[malaise]

38. I think it's time for Al Gore to speak on this

Assault on Reason again. Something's got to give.

[tom_paine]

50. But we know the Toady M$GOPMedia already has a script for Al Gore.

Al Gore is crazy.

Al Gore is a liar.

Al Gore uses electricity, lots of electricity.

And so forth...

I wish the answer was as simple as that. Unfortunately, things are so far gone and the self-referential circle is now so deep that I am not even sure there IS an answer.

It may be a situation of "The avalanche has begun; it's too late for the pebbles to vote."

[malaise]

52. If that were true, 80% of America would not be

anti-Bush. I think most people realize that M$M is full of hacks.

[tom_paine]

57. From your lips to God's ears, malaise.

I was at a friend's for a BBQ the day after M$GOPM shill Timmeh! died.

Briefly, the subject was of Timmeh was touched on. it had to be briefly otherwise I would have shattered the concord by speaking the truth of what a subtle yet relentless shill Timmeh was. So I dropped it.

All repeated the CW Herd's words in their own words about how they "liked" Timmeh, he was honest and fair. Lots of people thought so. Hell, at least half of DUers thought so.

For almost seven long years I Paul Revered whenever possible. But I have gone through the same tiresome drudgery of speaking to those who only watch M$GOPMedia, and it is almost always the same.

It doesn't matter how well I have my facts down. It doesn't matter that I can cite chapter and verse, with specific examples. Nothing can break the pleasant semi-hypnotic fugue of the CW Herd transmitted through TV.

It's like the fucking Jedi Mind Trick:

"Tim Russert was a likable guy and an excellent journalist."

"Yes, Tim Russert was a likable guy and an excellent journalist."

Now, don't get me wrong here. These aren't dumb people, not by a long site. Not Bushies in the least. Most of them Democrats or moderates. People I love. But intelligence has nothing to do with it. There are a lot of smart people out there who are suckered in.

That is what propaganda/advertising does, it attacks through the subconscious and seeps in, giving the victim no chance to defend against it.

Again, I'll say, from your lips to God's ears. But I can't help to think that, given the current insane self-referential media saturation, his words would sound no more than a fart in a windstorm (which does not diminish the wisdom of those words, I am not slamming Al here).

[malaise]

61. Most people don't follow politics the way we do

They don't watch most of these people regularly. Most people just watch local news.

I think you're wrong on Al - he is very popular. The problem is that the hacks and the loony base make the most noise. If you watch the opinion polls over a period of time(remember Al was the first of the big Dems to speak about the assault on the constitution in that MLK speech in 2006), more and more people have figured out what is going on in the media. The Assault on Reason is not a best seller by accident and it is in paperback now.

[Gabi Hayes]

40. and the saddest part is that the alternative to outright fascism is....

a man who's

for ethanol subsidies

against gay marriage

against Paul Krugman's progressive economic cures

wavering on mandatory minimums

etc.

lots more:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=obama+not+progressive&btnG=Search

we are so screwed

[tom_paine]

54. Yep. No matter which way they turn they lose. Now we see why the Bushies spent so much

time and money making this happen.

At every turn the Democrats lose, no matter what they say, no matter what they do.

If we don't get attacked, it benefits McCain.
If we do get attacked it benefits McCain.

What has to happen to benefit Obama?

Zzzzzzt. Zzzzzzt. Does not compute. Does not compute.

You can watch it unfold before your eyes, and still the marvelous Bushie engine is amazing to behold.

THEY CREATE FALSE REALITIES. Now that all their shit is in place, they do it as easily as you or I turn our engines over in the morning.

And the entire CW herd falls in line less they get the M$GOPM taser.

[Supersedeas]

11. fair and balanced -- balancing a Free Ride against....well...against 'potential' criticism

[pdxmom]

19. I have yet to understand how another "event" would be helpful to the

Repukes. Seems to me that if there was another strike before the election, that would make twice that we were hit on this administration's watch. Not much to strike a chord of confidence in the American people, if you ask me.

[Gabi Hayes]

21. they didn't even discuss that possibility. the herd mentality, the conventional wisdom

DICTATES that the GOP is our only protector, that, even though 911 happened on their watch, that another attack only serves to reinforce the idea that we're only safe under their aegis

clearly insane, but look who's been 'president' since 2001

nobody has ever done marketing (mass brainwashing) better than they have. I'll concede them that. doesn't say much for the attention span/critical thinking of the average US news consumer, but that's the way it is, Walter

[Gabi Hayes]

25. asshole!!!! Jay Carney calls dems outrage "tiresome!!!"

he really did, after saying that GOP WOULD benefit from terror attack

why oh why do I watch?

then, btw, he posits a case in which the dems MIGHT say that a bad economic scenario is good for them

hey, DICKHEAD, problem is, they HAVEN'T said it, and it ISN'T tiresome to have somebody point out that the pugs are capitalizing on FEAR.

funny you didn't mention that, isn't it

what a complete tool

[spanone]

31. same on gregory's show '''we all know it's true'''

i'd like to slap the shit out of that smarmy shit carney

[Gabi Hayes]

34. he really came out with his true colors on display with that spewage.

I haven't seen him so blatantly, obviously in the pocket til now

who's he married to? I forget

let's see....

[Supersedeas]

63. rapping to lyrics of Karl Rove again -- some things never change

[PATRICK]

36. Two reasons

a) They are poised to give McCain huge props in the event of a terror attack and are embarrassed that Black is blowing their cover

b) They are propping for McCain as per routine regardless of the occasion.

All in a day's work, but don't tell the public so clearly. It makes the stooges nervous.

[tom_paine]

47. c. Both of the Above. In a way it's like those Coca-Cola Xmas Polar Bears.

Now you might ask me, what do those Coca-Cola Xmas Polar Bears have to do with the 24/7 McCain anti-Democratic commercial that is the M$GOPM and will be until Phony Election Night is over?

As Gabi Hayes has pointed out, "It's the marketing."

You see back in the mid 90s, when the Coca-Cola Company came out with those stupid bears, I noticed something new, I mean something REALLY NEW about how they did the marketing.

They used self-referential marketing to make it seem as if the Coca-Cola Xmas Polar Bears were a long-term institution and tradition, when they had never ever been seen before that Christamas, at least not in my lifetime.

I was astonished by the audacity. It was right around the time the Self-Referential Hype Machine really began to take off, a precursor to the False Reality Bubble that the Bushies weave using the same self-referential marketing techjnique fortheir lies and deceptions.

To get back to the Coca-Cola Xmas Polar Bears, it worked and worked well. Wihin an amazingly short period of time (I don't think those bears have been around more than ten or fifteen years now, maybe less) they DID, in fact, become a Christmas Tradition, so to speak. By the very next year people would talk about them warmly in that vein.

I cannot say I noted this as part of the larger issue. Back when the Coca-Cola Xmas Polar Bears, I culd never have conceived on what this aspect of marketing using self-referential media saturation could do or how it could relate to the Bush Lie Machine.

I mean...really! It's just a dumb bunch of bears, right. Right. What is important here is the marketing principle that had been revealed, said principle that the Bushies later harnessed as the centerpiece of their entire Bush Lie Machine and the M$GOPM machine that creates it's own self-referential False Reality Bubble that has been so difficult to pierce, since most people are not even aware it exists.

If I had to put it into my own words (if there are any Marketing people or psycholoists reading this, I would love to know if their is a scientific term that describes this) :

When a society reaches a certain level of media saturation, reality can be subsumed by a thorough marketing campiagn through a self-referential circle on people operating from the same pre-programmed "conventional wisdom" or "groupthink". Such a circle can actually generate it's own hype or ideas, truth or falsity of those ideas need not matter if the circle is disciplined, self-referential enough, or driven by groupthink.

The effectiveness of said marketing campaign can be said to be directly proportional to the percentage of total media outlets that subscribe to the desired groupthink or conventional wisdom.

As the number of media outlets approaches 100%, anyone trying to look outside the self-referential circle will simply be looking at another facet of the self-referential circle.

At the theoretical 100% of all media outlets, a wholly false reality could be created, because a target audience woul have nowhere to turn for anything but the ideas and reality propagated by the self-referential cricle of media saturation.

[Gabi Hayes]

49. and that, my friend, is why they're trying to make the internet pay-as-you-go.

if they succeed in eliminating net neutrality, the rush to fascism will increase by orders of magnitude, and there truly will be no hope at all

not that there's much at this point

[lonestarnot]

39. Woohoo. Not watching but that will be on in at least two places then again today. Wonder

what Keith will have to say today.

[Gabi Hayes]

41. he hit it hard last night, as did Dan Abrams, to a lesser degree

this story dies very soon, though

[lonestarnot]

43. Hillary's lasted a damn two weeks, this fucker shouldn't get off any easier!

[Gabi Hayes]

45. now they're asking if the politics of terror has shifted lately

they STILL (Carney, Blankley, Gregory) think pugs have the advantage, but they REFUSE to address the real issue: they are PLAYING on FEAR

Blankley tried to use Hillary's mention as a validation of their point, but Rachel called BS on that, saying Hillary was pointing out how they try to exploit said fear for political gain

this is the point dems need to hammer home, and NOT just when Black and his horrid minions 'mistakenly' bring up the subject

[Disturbed]

48. The US Corp Media supports the RWing.

The Moguls are pro-RWing because of the Fairness Doctrine, which gives them more power.

[Gabi Hayes]

46. I don't know what's worse, their evading dealing with the substance of the terror remark, OR

treating Dobson as if he was any sort of a credible voice

do they not know that he wrote in a BOOK that, according to an undisputed column by Garry Wills:



the White House distributed a workbook to schools asking children "to draw the world's largest penis, compare white and black penises, and show their parents making love." (I'm quoting Wills.)

Dobson has never been able to substantiate this claim, despite repeated requests for evidence. And Wills persists in pointing out the credibility gap because the book's introduction was written by William Bennett. "Bennett goes about denouncing Clinton as a liar," Wills says, "but he promotes the kind of lies that right-wingers want to hear."

http://www.slate.com/id/2000043/entry/1001588

why don't the DEMS start pointing out what a fricking deranged lunatic Dobson is....the above is just the tip of the iceberg, btw

remember his contretemps with Spongebob?

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/01/23/214258.php

[malaise]

55. Both make me sick n/t

[norepubsin08]

59. First of all...

Charlie Black is one of the reasons that we have such a gutteral type of political discourse right now. It is also one of the reasons that we have such a violent society. Just salivating over such a terrible possibility shows what slime they are. Also if, you'll notice Hillary may have made a similar statement, but is she the nominee? No!!! Could that be one of the nails in her presidential aspiration coffin? Hope so!!!

[Gabi Hayes]

60. sorry, but she was making the point in the context of demonstrating that

the repugs play the game in such a 'gutteral' fashion

that's the way the RWers were characterizing her comment, as a means of deflecting, as they always do, the hideous comments you so rightfully decry

please cite the Hillary context correctly, though

and welcome to DU

[Gabi Hayes]

62. John Stewart covering this better than anyone else, as usual

must see TV

is it sad, or what?

I wonder how he'll be remembered, if a truthful history of this shameful era is ever saved for posterity

[Gabi Hayes]

64. too bad he thought the moveon.org ad with the woman and baby

made him "cringe"

WTF?????

people in the audience were clapping a little, til he started making fun of it

ass