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Michael Shermer hates Michael Moore (surprise....)

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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 05:29 PM
Original message
Michael Shermer hates Michael Moore (surprise....)

In the June 2008 Scientific American, Shermer wrote a review of "Expelled!", a movie defending intelligent design and denigrating Darwin and evolution, by Ben Stein. You can read the review on Shermer's website at skeptic.com. I have no idea why anyone would listen to Ben Stein, but here is the letter I wrote to Scientific American:


Dear Editor,

I read Mr. Shermer's review of the Ben Stein movie "Expelled" in the June 2008 issue. I agreed with his opinion of anti-evolutionist reasoning.

After he ranted about how inaccurate it was, stating that "Expelled" would "make Leni Riefenstahl blush", this sentence stopped me in my tracks: "The film deserves the Michael Moore Palme d'Or for Objective Journalism".

I assume that by that statement, he was stating that Michael Moore is NOT objective.

People who lie about living people in their books or movies are guilty of slander & libel, which is a tort. They are sued by the person slandered, and if a jury deems the defendant guilty, they generally award damages to the plaintiff, for damage to the plaintiff's reputation.

Michael Moore has not been successfully sued. Why is that? Because he has lawyers (the "former chief counsel and head of fact-checking for The New Yorker") who go through all his work very carefully, checking every word and every fact, to make sure it is true.

This is part of an interview about his film "Fahrenheit 9/11" which showed the negligence and incompetence of the Bush Administration before 9-11 happened:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mikeinthenews/index.php?id=89

Quote:
Entertainment Weekly: There are people who are going to look for any threadbare weakness in the film. This moment seems like fertile ground for them.

MM: I'm ready for them. I'm really ready for them this time.

EW: Yeah, you've got Chris Lehane, one of the meanest political advisers on the planet.

MM: That's right. F--- with me and I've got the chief motherf---er. And I also went and hired the former chief counsel and head of fact-checking at The New Yorker and then she brought in some fact-checkers. I said tear the movie apart and find something wrong with it. I've done this for my other movies, too. I've had virtually no lawsuits. Four books, not one lawsuit. Awful Truth, two seasons, zero lawsuits. TV Nation? Two seasons, one lawsuit, we won it. Bowling for Columbine, no lawsuits until the Oklahoma City bombers' brother sued us--remember when we go into the bedroom and the gun is under the pillow? A privacy thing. The Big One, no lawsuits.

EW: And Canadian Bacon! No lawsuits!

MM: You get my point. I don't get sued because my facts are correct. I libel no one. My opinions are my own and they may or may not be correct, but let's have that debate.

EW: A couple of questions about the criticism of Fahrenheit. People have pointed out that the Saudis left the U.S. after the airspace was open--the film implies otherwise. Richard Clarke himself took responsibility and said there was nothing wrong with their leaving.

MM: Well, first of all, we know of at least one Saudi flight that did leave after all the airspace was closed. It was a flight that picked up some Saudis in Tampa, flew up to Lexington, Kentucky, and picked up more Saudis. The St. Petersburg Times did a great story on it. So it's a legitimate question to ask how many other flights flew during that time. What your question is really about is my interpretation of the facts. No one is denying that there was special treatment given to the Saudis, and Clarke was doing what he was supposed to be doing as an employee of the White House.

EW: But he took responsibility for the decision that was made.

MM: But he went on the word of the FBI. It turns out later that the FBI only interviewed 30 of the 142 Saudis. It's my interpretation and opinion that that was not a thorough investigation. I mean, is anybody accusing me of saying something that isn't true? Or is it my interpretation of the events?
End quote.

Does criticizing the President amount to disloyalty? No.

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official, save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country. In either event, it is unpatriotic not to tell the truth, whether about the president or anyone else."
- Theodore Roosevelt, 26th President of the United States


I know Michael Shermer was writing an opinion piece about the Ben Stein movie but he should not have slandered Michael Moore by associating him with Ben Stein, and indirectly calling him a liar.

Implying that Michael Moore is an irresponsible journalist is wrong. A lot of people hate Michael Moore for telling the truth, when they don't like it. Michael Moore would have been sued a long time ago if he was lying in his movies, and judgments would have been won and upheld against him.


I do not know if SciAm had any input into the Shermer column, or reviewed it before publication. Mr. Shermer should check his facts instead of blindly accepting the meme that's been floating around for several years of "Michael Moore is a liar and all his movies are lies".

I expect more responsible journalism from Scientific American.

Sincerely,

XXXXXXXXXX, J.D.





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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. He wasn't saying that he wasn't right, just that he wasn't objective
There's a difference.

And as much as I love MM and all his movies, they are not objective. They contain a Left Wing Bias. I like that in a movie.

I don't like that in news.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. That's how I read it, too
Still, I don't think Michael Moore deserved getting slapped in that way. Ben Stein is telling lies. Michael Moore isn't. The problem isn't that Ben Stein isn't objective. The problem is that he isn't honest.

I'm a great admirer of both Michaels here.
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Stephen Colbert nailed it.
"Reality has a liberal bias."

Say it, brother!

:toast:

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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. The facts are objective. Michael Moore is an advocate of a certain viewpoint.
Michael Moore is an advocate of a certain viewpoint. If he insists on objective facts as his advocacy tools, is he still not "being objective" (despite his strong viewpoint?)

Shermer is playing the reader for a fool in order to be an advocate himself, while pretending objectivity, (i.e. "I watch Ben Stein too!) he paints Michael as bad as Stein, who was in fact sued for falsely presenting his film to certain participants, whose comments were then used to make a different editorial point, one they did not believe in!

How sneaky and dishonorable is this...
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. Reminds me of what Al Franken did in "Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot"
Edited on Thu Jun-26-08 03:09 AM by hfojvt
He asked a bunch of conservatives (including Arianna Huffington) to name some Government programs that worked (and neglected to mention that it was for a book titled "Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot")

There are also plenty of dishonest ways to use facts, not that I am saying Moore does so. But if, for example, a glass is half empty, you can go on and on about the emptiness and the ways it is empty, and be perfectly factual - but not presenting the big picture, where the glass is also half full.

Rightwingers, like the Wall Street Journal do things like this all the time. For example, they wrote that 70% of the people getting a capital gains tax cut make less than $100,000 a year. And that's true. But another truth is that 70% of the BENEFITS goto people making over $500,000. What they wrote was truth, but it was not the whole truth.

edit: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/81
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
5. I don't know why...
anyone gives a shit what that twit Shermer thinks! :eyes:
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. In that case,
isn't Scientific American at fault for giving him a platform for his foolishness?
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. yes!
But he's an establishment hack so...
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I bet Martin Gardner never did stuff like that. n/t
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