Housing crash hits baby boomers: Home-price declines will eat into boomer retirement nest eggs

[marmar]

from MarketWatch:



Housing crash hits baby boomers
Home-price declines will eat into boomer retirement nest eggs: report
By Amy Hoak, MarketWatch


CHICAGO (MarketWatch) -- The collapse of the housing bubble will likely have drastic implications on the wealth and retirement of certain baby boomers, according to a report Tuesday by the Center for Economic and Policy Research.

The median household headed by those between 45 and 54 in 2009 will have about 25% less wealth than the median household of that age in 2004, according to the report. That household's wealth will decline to $113,268 in 2009, from $150,113 in 2004.

And that's if housing prices remain at the level they were in March.

The report, "The Housing Crash and the Retirement Prospects of Late Baby Boomers," extrapolates from data in the Federal Reserve's 2004 Survey of Consumer Finances (the most recent available). The authors also used the Case-Shiller home price index for their estimates.

The Center for Economic and Policy Research is a Washington, D.C.-based nonpartisan think tank that focuses on economic and social issues.

The picture gets even worse if real home prices fall more. If prices, adjusted for inflation, fall 10% by 2009, the median household would see a 35% drop in wealth compared with the same age group in 2004; and if prices fall by 20%, there would be a 46% difference.

Renters were better off in all three scenarios than homeowners, according to the report. Renters haven't experienced home-price gains and didn't have an opportunity to tap home equity, said Dean Baker, co-director of CEPR and co-author of the report.

Homeowners "sort of assumed that house prices would keep going up ... they didn't think they had to save," Baker said. This thinking caused many people to extract some of their home's equity -- or at least prompted them to save less, he said. ......(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/home-price-declines-eat-baby-boomer/story.aspx?guid=%7B408882CB%2D7FF8%2D4473%2D8E46%2DE0483DC5A4D5%7D

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vincardog]

2. I don't know about your circumstances sparky but don't pretend that I graduated

from college debt free and found a booming job market. That did not happen. In addition I have been paying off a $125,000 house note for 12 years that may not be worth shit today.
Do cry me a river for you poor little gen whatever.

[Oregone]

3. Just calculate the average wage to home price ratio, as well as professional wage to college tuition

Compare the two generations statistics, and tell me just how hard it really was...come on now. We have people in their 20s looking at those stats, and literally, jumping off bridges these days.

My circumstances are fine (no debt from college, 800 credit rating, minimal mortgage with 200K of equity, good job, leaving the US in weeks)...but the writing is on the wall for the rest of people my age in their 20s.

Look, its all about the numbers. For people my age, indentured servitude alongside a 40" LCD TV is their life until death at this point. I can barely feel sorry for some baby boomers who rode this wave to this point, because the reality is the ride is over. They had the chance to get out and cash out, but younger people will never have that option.

[saracat]

5. Wow. Such hatred for another generation.And the assumptions being made are broad brushed and venal.

[silverojo]

16. It's not about hatred

It's about being tired of how nothing is really an issue until it affects boomers. The MSM started all this, and it gets sickening to hear about one generation over and over and over again.

EVERYBODY'S getting kicked in the teeth by Bush's policies. It's tiresome how the MSM tries to make stories boomer-centric, as if that somehow makes them mainstream.

Hell, all this became mainstream when people were getting thrown out of their homes, had trouble making ends meet, and watched as gas prices soared.

Yes, it's affecting the boomers.
But it's also affecting the older "Silent" generation".
It's affecting Generation X.
It's affecting the Millennial generation.
It's affecting babies in cribs.

That's why it's so asinine for them to use a "boomer" spin on this. We're ALL getting screwed, no matter what our age.

[SammyWinstonJack]

94. Everyone IS getting kicked in the teeth by bu$h's policies and the boomers

got kicked in the teeth by his dad's and raygun's policies too. Both of them borrowed heavily from soc. sec. and so did Clinton. raygun doubled the payroll tax for soc. sec. claiming the boomers would now be financing their retirement. Three administration borrowing heavily since then and now george is wanting to privatize what is left. For many boomers, that is all they will have too retire on. Get it?

[Oregone]

45. I really do not hate any generation...

Im just trying to point out a reality, and using a little bit of controversy to do it...Nietzche said: "Plato is Boring".

People often times admit that the "Greatest" generation had it tough. Do you think you had it tougher than them (the great depression an all)? Than why suggest that its tougher for you now than our generation? Each age is hit uniquely by social/economic conditions, and statistically, things look rather raw for us currently. Most boomers I know (who didn't willingly drain their equity), are happy, content and taken care of. We, statistically speaking, have little to no upward mobility.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. When you have to WALK seventy miles for a job

then you can tell me you have it rougher

When you live in a hooverville, then we can talk

We are getting there, but we are NOT THERE YET.

Read the Grapes of Wrath to get an idea of what the great depression looked like, or rent the movie

Or better yet, find a good history of the period with photos... preferably

[Oregone]

55. Ive read the damn book...

Which is part of the reason I'm jetting on out of here...and yes, Shanty towns are springing up and growing by the day, despite what CNN tells you.

You have not and will not ever have to build your life in that. Thanks to these extremist conservative/fascist/corporative policies, we will have to survive the next wave.

We may have plastations and TVs, but that isn't a guarantee our lives are cushy, and will continue to be so.

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. Don't watch CNN. thank you... but I guess you assumed that

again, when you have to walk seventy miles in the hopes of getting a job, we are there

We are NOT THERE YET

As to the fascist corporatist policies, we agree... but trying to tell us feel sorry for us since we are all fucked up will get you little in the form of sympathy, which is what I am trying to tell you

It is NOT YOUR GENERATION, it is THE COUNTRY

GOT IT NOW?

No, I don't expect it to sink in

Let me repeat this

This is not about YOU, but about US... this is what allowed the WE to survive the great depression... and going about it in the I. will gain you little simpathy

[Oregone]

59. Since it is about us, I feel sorry for the rich people (top .01%) who have to experience this...

Those that have no expenses except toys and vacations. Must be really fucking tough for them...


Wow...you know...since everyone is hit so fucking equally hard after all. We are all in this shithole together I guess. Poor Bill Gates...Poor Warren Buffet. Poor George Bush (did your portfolio go down at all, or did the bribes make up for it?).

Boo fucken hoo rich people and baby boomers that already have all their shit paid off. You guys are just as bad off currently as young families struggling to make it with these absurd costs and low wages.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. You are mistaking, at your peril, the 0.01% who live outside the economy

with everybody else

And yes, I will say it, you are bitter

[Oregone]

65. No shit Im bitter....Just got a clue?

Anyone who gives a damn and who doesn't have their head up their ass should be really bitter.

OTOH, anyone with their life set, minimum expenses, shit worked out, probably doesn't understand just how bitter. French Revolution bitter? Pretty damn close personally, being that I see things to come...

"And if my thought-dreams could be seen
They'd probably put my head in a guillotine"

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. Ah, so I should feel sorry for you now?

Look bitter will only take you so far... and an early grave

And you are making so many assumptions it is not even funny

But if you really want to change things... bitter will take you nowhere, and neither will trying to get pity from people

IT is about the WE... We either work together, or you will sink alone

As to french revolution bitter, will not happen, not yet... people are not that bitter yet

[Oregone]

70. I don't care who the fuck you feel sorry for

Waste your pity on the retiring Baby Boomer who has to shuffle his 401 K a bit to afford the RV they dreamed to travel around in for all I fucking care.

Ignore those stuck in a new perpetual cycle of minimum Intergenerational Mobility that will forever plague this nation if not addressed.

But realize, if we are going to dictate the direction and emphasis of policy without understanding the magnitude and areas of the effects, we are pissing into the wind for decades to come.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. That is the problem kid, I, or many others are not having any pity on you

got it now?

As to that intergenerational mobility, we are EXACTLY where we were in 1931... that didn't last forever either, now did it?

[Oregone]

76. Fine, and that is exactly the damn issue...

In the 40s, people pulled their heads out of their ass, and there was socialistic trends leading to a New Deal to help our struggling society from the ground up.


In contrast, you aren't going to have pity for shit, understanding for shit, and meanwhile, the baby boomer demographic/lobby is going to dictate that policy readily addresses their whims and needs rather than caters to the ills of the entire society and those hit the hardest (younger incoming workers and the future workforce--their children).


Thats really the issue here...how do we fix it? And we need government, and probably and second New Deal, to do it (with a problem this large). And as long as people have their damn pity party about the sad boomers in retirement, they are going to miss the boat addressing this entire problem. The entire backbone, labor force, and posterity are going to be ignored by people shaking their cane at their neighbors, thus never breaking the perpetual cycle of conditions leading to poverty.

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. You are young, it shows

HInt

FDR did NOT run on the new deal.... never, ever in his campaign was it mentioned

Hint

The war on poverty was fought by the same generation you despise

Hint

They have not stopped fighting

Hint.

This country is about to take a hard turn to the left

Hint

The reasons are SIMILAR

Hint

Rome was not built in one day

Hint.

The boomers you despise are just as fed up as you are.

Oh never mind...

[Oregone]

82. My name, it means nothing. My age, it means less.

Wisdom of the Ancients will only lead you back to Rome, no doubt. Such condescension does little for your argument.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. We are in Rome.. the last days in fact

and the condescension came from you

Now I read bellow your bags are packed

Good luck

The rest of us have a country to rebuild

[Carnea]

98. The war on poverty was fought by boomers>??????

Um wasn't that the late sixties I'm pretty sure most of the players were of an older generation. You know LBJ MLK Bobby those people.

The boomers are the one that put Reagan in office and supported his policies.... they were called yuppies then I believe.

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. no, yuppies were the leading edge of the gen x... and the trailing edge of the

boomers. which alos belays this cohort classification, since the late boomers were looking at well established careers started in the oh SEVENTIES, a few, mind you the leading edge, in the late SIXTIES

Many of the boomers were involved in civil rights and the war on poverty... as well as the demonstrations against Nam... proving that at least they could get involved in SOMETHING.

But that's ok

I guess the boomers are the reason we are in this trouble... is that the mantra I am seeing now? Is this what the young'ins are now saying? Damn boomers, they stole my "insert bauble here."


By the way I am in that leading edge of the Xers, and my first election, if I was a US Citizen at the time, would have been 1984.. many of my college mates who were us citizens and actually bothered to vote, did so for Reagan, since they LOVED HIM... some of them even in 1980 and they LOVED HIM... absolutely LOVED HIM...

[anigbrowl]

92. Baby boomers were born after ww2, not during the great depression

Way to completely miss the point.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. And you missed it too

to say that we are living RIGHT NOW in the great depression is inexact at best... spurious at worst

When kids say that things are as worst as they've ever been, no they are not

THere have been eras that have been WORST... just NOT in our timeline

Do you need the rest decoded?

[anigbrowl]

96. This is a waste of time. You are hopelessly twisting others' words

I looked at the post you originally went off on, and the author criticized boomers by pointing out that they had it much easier than in the depression era, and that succeeding generations have it harder than the boomers did. You obviously don't like hearing this so yo have been arguing as if people were suggesting that the young today are worse off than in the great depression, effectively putting words in other people's mouths. It's deceptive and insulting to the people whose posts you mischaracterize.

Meantime, I have no great sympathy for the boomer generation. They're the first in history to leave their offspring with less economic opportunity than they had, and this is not a phenomenon limited to the US either. Chances are that the retirement age is going to have to be raised and medicare expenditures cut because otherwise we are simply not going to be able to handle the spiraling costs of demographic change. Of course, one approach (for the US at least) would be to significantly loosen the US immigration requirements, which would at least offset the demographic time bomb that's beginning to go off right now.

[stillcool]

6. Which age/class of people are you targeting?

By the way, I hope you have a nice life wherever you end up.

[Gormy Cuss]

9. So you're special?

Come on now. If it's so bad for your fellow 20-somethings, how is it you have such wealth? I'm a boomer who came out of college with the equivalent of $30,000 debt in today's dollars. I haven't had a pension plan offered at work since I was 30. I couldn't afford a house until well in my 30s. It's my 401K, SS and my house that are the backbone of my retirement plan. I still don't own a 40" LCD, mostly because I know that buy expensive electronic toys instead of saving is stupid.

[silverojo]

17. A suggestion:

Read the book "13th Gen: Abort, Retry, Ignore, Fail", by Neil Howe and Bill Strauss.

The authors are boomers, and even though it's about a decade old, this book is amazingly insightful.

Things were bad for Generation X, and they've only gotten worse for today's young adults. You're just assuming young people fritter away their money on electronics, which is painting people with a pretty broad brush.

You can't save when you don't have extra income to put into savings. People can barely survive today, and it's quite obvious that things were much better before Bush.

[Gormy Cuss]

26. No, the person that I replied to made that assumption.

Not me. I also know that boomers have a wide variety of experiences in the market place but that one thing we all faced is an extremely competitive entry into the workforce.

Things were better before Bush, but most of us who came into the workforce just before Reagan became president didn't exactly have it easy either.

And I reiterate: life wasn't exactly easy for many of us boomers who weren't born with a silver spoon in our mouths. This kind of "blame a generation" crap is bullshit coming from someone who IS making it much better than most of us boomers were at that age.

[Oregone]

35. Look, Im looking at wage to (important stuff) indexes...

Despite having a tough job market, the pay of a shitty job was sufficient for a sustainable life.

For example, my father in law worked as a logger, a millworker, a car salesman, a concrete truck driver, and still paid off his less than 40 K house in no time, and have 3 rentals on the side (he grew up on beans and pork prior to that so he wasn't priveledged or high paid at all--I make over twice as much now than he does). He still managed it...

Now, you cannot even pay off a meager house in 15-30 years without a dual income and a nice job. The price of homes/food/healthcare has outpaced wage increase. Baby Boomers do not have to face these factors at this point (or should not, that is).

Im not blaming anything...Im simply stating that what Baby Boomers are going through now is small in comparison to young people, and is nothing compared to what our future life promises.

[Gormy Cuss]

52. Which wage to (something) indices?

And yes you are blaming at least some boomers:
"I can barely feel sorry for some baby boomers who rode this wave to this point, because the reality is the ride is over. They had the chance to get out and cash out..."

Here's a bulletin for you. Second cohort boomers were the first group to experience the shifts you describe. Many first cohort boomers have too. They didn't get the chance to make it and cash out.

[Oregone]

58. A few things to look at...

I mentioned earlier:

Wage to health care
Wage to average home
Wage to living necessities
Professional Wage to College Education Costs

People making a meager living 30 years ago didn't have to tough of a time paying down a 40K house, and affording food/extras/savings.

It isn't blame per se, but I'm not sure why the emphasis (of the original article) is not on who is of the most consequence to these conditions (who actually have to buy new homes and afford the expenses of a family at a wage that hasn't grown adjusted to inflation--which Baby Boomers aren't experiencing). In comparison, I really do not think the Baby Boomers troubles are relevant to the disastrous conditions the younger generations are facing.

If baby boomers didn't cash in on their equity to buy toys, they should be sitting pretty right now.

If I am wrong, why is Intergenerational Mobility at an incredible low rate in America now? We, statistically speaking, have no ability to improve our lives and build wealth now, but the Baby Boomers had it just as tough? That makes no sense.

[Gormy Cuss]

81. Intergenerational mobility is and was low.

In measured studies the most important predictor of your relative wealth is the wealth of your parents. The most important factor in upward mobility is increased education over that of your parents. That hasn't changed.

There's no question that wages aren't keeping pace with costs. That affects all wage earners, not just 20-somethings. First cohort boomers are approaching retirement age and lowered real estate values will be a significant factor in that retirement decision. If the older boomers can't afford to retire then they will stay in the workforce and put more pressure on the job market for younger workers. It's all connected.

[Oregone]

85. Regarding IM, it is definately lower now than for Boomers...

Just try:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=2xj&q=%22intergenerational+mobility%22+%22baby+boomers%22&btnG=Search

Countless articles/studies will cite that Baby Boomers experienced upwards wealth increases over their same-sex parent, throughout all stages of their lives.

That is no longer the case.


Of course, all wage earners experience the impact of inflation, but those with the most obligatory costs (such as a home that cost 7 times what it would of to a Boomer, or food for an entire family as opposed to a couple), experience it the most. This is also the demographic that will be the largest component to the new workforce.

[Luminous Animal]

88. Ahem...

The reason why there are countless articles that can cite Baby Boomers wealth increases is because the Boomers fucking fought for those increases. I'm of an age where I grew up with elders who believed in collective action to extract concessions for their labor. I'm also of an age to witness "youngsters" who believe unions and collective action were passé. I'm still witnessing this idiocy with each new generation. The latest thinks typing on the internet with a few thousand like minded people will affect change. Hahahahaha! And anyone who steps out of this shiny new digital activism are "attention whores". (Witness the excoriation, here on DU, of contemporary liberal heroes such as, Cindy Sheehan, Code Pink, Michael Moore, and Ralph Nader.)

Suckers.

It wasn't boomers who abandoned youth. Youth abandoned boomers. It wasn't called the "Me Generation" for nothing.

[Gormy Cuss]

90. Sorry, google hits don't constitute an adequate measure.

Since you don't cite specific studies, I'm going to hazard a guess that you haven't sorted out those hits to separate the wheat from the chaff. Many articles by generalists cite absolute wealth rather than relative wealth. By that measure, all of the boomers appear to be swimming in money compared to their parents because the country was experiencing economic expansion. The same holds true for the older Gen X'ers. There's also the effect caused by using household level statistics as if households in each generation had similar income dynamics when in fact the emergence of two-earner households changed that dynamic beginning with the boomers.

[Oregone]

32. Im not special, I was lucky....

I grew up in shithole on food stamps and charity, and my parents made nothing. We lived off a garden, angled for food, and grew illegal crops. Because we had no income to speak of and I was the valedictorian, I was given a healthy ride to a reputable and expensive private university. With no debt, but no job opportunities, I was lucky enough to succeed in my own business that I started before I graduated (1 in a million shot). I was lucky enough to purchase ocean view property in a place right before it exploded because I could work anywhere. I was lucky enough to apply for immigration to get out before things got real bad...thats all. Just luck, which most people do not have.

Most people are shit out of luck who are my age. That is just a statistical analysis. I am not special or better than anyone. I just got a break that still makes things damn tough.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. AND? You think this is the FIRST generation to face

those trials

Perhaps I should introduce you to the Great Depression Generation

Play into their hands and BLAME others for your trials sparky

They love it

Instead you should realize it is all of US together...

[silverojo]

18. Actually, the reason the boomers had it easier

Was that people who lived through the Depression wanted to make absolutely sure that their children didn't have to go without, as they did.

Every single boomer I know believes that life was better when they were younger, than it is now. And it was.

There's no "blame" being thrown around. It's true, life WAS better when boomers were young. Why not just admit it, be thankful, and say something like, "I wish your generation had it better"?

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Because this is CYCLICAL

god dammed it, are they teaching history these days?

Look the people who went though the great depression had it very hard, and their kids had it easier

First gen immigrants in the late 1800s went though hell, their kids did better

And their grand kids lived through the great depression... and many lost all the families had built.. a few skated through.

The kids who came to maturity in 1860 had a civil war to fight... but I guess they had it better huh?

And their kids did better during the expansion westward...

This is part of the cycle

So instead of BLAMING others, realize that this is not gonna last forever and blaming those older than you for your particular circumstances is PLAYING into the hands of those who BENEFIT from wedges. They realize that as long as YOU BLAME me, you will NOT work with me in an effective manner... see this is how it works.

By the way sparky I had it easier (to a point) than my oldest brother and had more "opportunities" since the ECONOMIC CIRCUMSTANCES of the family were very different... and you know what? My oldest brother sounds like YOU... he blames the rest of us for HIS troubles

Damn it, at least you are in your twenties and not in your fifties, so there is STILL TIME TO GROW UP

[sentelle]

25. which is exactly

What howe and strauss say.

Gen x is no different than the generations that gave us hemingway or twain. These things are cyclical indeed.

Was there a time corporations had so much control? Sure, look at standard oil. And ultimately, some of the rich decided that the rich should pay their fair share.

As much as I dislike the self indulgence of the boomers, they are in a tough situation: real estate is in free-fall, stocks (and 401k's) are tanking, to the point where even so-called safe strategies are tanking, it leaves them with less than they wanted, and perhaps, less than they need. As gen Xer's we need to lead the way, and show by example, as we always have, even if it gives us essentially nothing in the end. Even if we get no credit for anything, do it because its the right thing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. I wasn't born or raised in this country

my brother is a boomer... so is my other brother, who works 120 hours \ week even today... hell, at times I joke he works harder than the interns and the residents he supervises...

I am, by all definitions, a Gen X'er... and I can tell you that those in power benefit from this

As to corpos having this much power? Indeed, the guilded age... where the Sherman Antitrust came from

In some ways we are not teaching these kids jack shit about civics or history, so they think they are in a vacuum

And you know, these days I worry about my mom and dad (from these kids POV silent generation) if the dollar crashes any farther they'll loose their shirts and it is no time to start at eighty

[sentelle]

89. agreed

Its funny, really. Many GenXer's believe that Boomers were put on earth to annoy them. I think it unlikely. Did the boomers make some mistakes? Sure. Some of the idealism of the 60's and 70's led to the abuse of such optimism. And so, they had to catch up. Did they attempt to make their children feel neglected as 'latch-key' kids? (Note to boomers: I am not saying you neglected anyone, I am targeting the GenX perception here). No. Dr Spock was trendy, and addressing the failings of the silent generation in over-indulging their children.

Yes, GenXers grew up fast, and were EXPECTED to do so, after all, freedom came from maturity in the boomer mind. GenXer's just never saw it as such.

[nadinbrzezinski]

95. And the millenials hate everyone (I know gross generalization)

and don't realize that things are hard for everybody.

Yep, and those in power benefit since everybody is busy blaming everybody

Major difference between the people who went through the depression and today... they knew their neighbors

[anigbrowl]

97. I don't blame them one bit

They are well aware of the difference between stated aims and actual behavior. The 1970s showed how important energy conservation was and how fragile economies were, but did adults of the 1970s take those lessons to heart? Mostly not.

[Oregone]

33. Who is blaming who...

Really? Im just stating shit is, statistically speaking, really damn tough right now. The last generation I would be concerned with is the Baby Boomers. They perhaps have things much better than the rest of us if they did things right....the rest of the younger, the genx, the "greatest" gen, ex.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. Yes but things are hard for EVERYBODY, not just the young

it is just that your problems (entering the job market for example) seem larger than I don't know. my dad at 83 on fixed income, and hardly able to reenter the job market

It is hard for everybody... and it is NOT just the US.

And to blame one generation over the other is EXACTLY what those "in charge"want you and me to do

Hey I could seat here and tell you damn slacker! Get to work... which is what many are inclined to do

While you go... hey but they got it so easy at my age! People who entered the job market before you were born, back in the mean ol' late seventies, also faced a tough economy

Let's not start with Reagan either

The easiest anybody had it in the recent past was actually the Clinton Economy

So if you were LUCKY enough to enter the economy anywhere between 94 and 2000 you were lucky

So stop blaming others, and feeling sorry for yourself

It is time to work together, and YOUR challenges are not that harder from those of people older than you. they are just DIFFERENT

[Oregone]

47. Stats prove: Despite job market, previous generations had more upward mobility...

Working shitty jobs, Ive seen the baby boomers make it work because the income to average (expense) ratio was smaller.

Now it is not. That is a fact.


You may have it tough now, but do you think challenges of losing equity in a home thats paid off compare to what people now face?

Do your current challenges compare to those raising families in the hardest times in history? Is now considered one of those times? If it isn't, is Bush really that bad?

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Yeah and stats also prove that the people in the Great Depression at times

walked seventy miles to find a job and that PEOPLE Starved due to lack of jobs and food

Stats of the Great Depresion also show that the young had no prospects

Stats also showed that people were also WILLING TO WORK TOGETHER...

And I could go into the 1960s where the elderly were eating dog food (wait, they are back at doing that) because they had no money for medicines

Look KID... things are tough for EVERYBODY RIGHT NOW. Your problems are just DIFFERENT. And you are playing into exactly what those in power WANT and benefit from.. and that is people blaming each other...

[Oregone]

54. So since people had it tough in the depression...

It means that people won't have it tough now? Or that you have it just as tough? WTF are you saying...

Things are moving right back to that era. As bad as I felt for people that raised families then, I will shortly be looking the same way at families now. We are just starting to get into the real shit.

Fortunately, no matter what the Baby Boomer experienced, its going to be a drop in the bucket compared to both generations (the new one and the great depression generation). Whatever problems you have in retirement are going to be cushy in comparison. Not that Im here to tell you that you are in heaven, but its all relative and its not going to be good.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. Those who are ignorant of history...

Look I have been saying that we are getting close to 1929 FAST

That said, you have no clue what that means

By the way, gives me cold comfort to know that

And, not that I'd make the mistake you are making, if I were to judge your generation by the have pity on me posts of yours, we will not get out of this one as well as we did.

Perhaps people were made of sterner stuff back then...

[Oregone]

60. Have pity on me posts?!?!

And what the hell are your posts? Just work hard, buck up and everything will be fine posts (Republican Mantra)?

Im pointing out a fucking reality, and in such, no amount of hard work will fix shit (hard work is irrelevant in zero mobility societies). Those who are still doing the work will experience that soon enough. Those who are not (who are retired) will not face the same extremes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. Ah thanks for putting words into my mouth

I have repeatedly told you WE ARE IN THIS TOGETHER, THIS DISASTER AFFECTS EVERYBODY WHO LIVES INSIDE THE ECONOMY

The effect is just different

Where exactly did I tell you to reach for Horatio Alger and pull yourself by your bootstraps?

But if you are searching for pity in your plight from me, you are looking in the wrong place

I have MY PROBLEMS, and I LIVE INSIDE THIS DAMN ECONOMY...

But I realize that the only way WE are going to get to the other side is to leave self pity to the side and recognize that WE ALL ARE IN THIS HOLE'


First step which that generation QUICKLY recognized. And if I were to judge from YOUR Posts to your full generation, I guess you are yet to recognize.

[Oregone]

67. We are all in it together, but to different degrees...

Thats a reality.

Don't tell me someone who can't find a home/rent/anything for under $1000 a month is in the same spot as a man who paid off their 30-50 K house 20 years ago. Not going to fucking happen. Just as the man with millions in a hedge fund isn't in the same spot as a baby boomer organizing their retirement. People on the bottom rung are hit the hardest.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. And that is news to this period of history?

Anybody who had read a history book knows that

Now you are assuming that we are living high on the hog just because we are in our early forties

WRONG

You are also assuming that people in their forties are not having a hell of a time keeping or even getting jobs

THat social mobility you are so found of quoting is AFFECTING EVERYBODY...

The Class Warfafe is not uniquely affecing YOUR GENERATION and you are blaming others.

Sorry, won't fly

[Oregone]

74. Whoa...people in their early 40s?

Baby boomers are 62 to late 40s by definition. Just FYI.

I am assuming that people in such a generation are not being hit by these recent economic trends as severely as people 20 to 40, due the less home and family based expenses (the earlier, the harder).

Their period for mobility is, for the most part (now that they are in/facing retirement), over. This is a metric that measure opportunity, an hints to the current absence of such.

Despite ongoing class warfare, a lower-middle class wage earner during the baby boomer generation could more easily afford housing/food/education/health care, etc, simply because those prices have gone up, while wages have stagnated.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. So what are you DOING about it?

And here is the secret... to that UNIONS...

See it is WE who have to change the dynamics

And WE are in our early forties, so you think we are living high on the hog?

Hell, WE HAVE SCALED DOWN... like EVERYBODY ELSE in this country

Got it now?

[Oregone]

77. Me? Surrounded by people that don't get it precisely....

I said fuck it. Im taking off. My family has Visas and our bags packed. Im a selfish, hedonistic asshole.

Unions are great. I agree. But I don't think they get the point, to be honest. In other places (like where we are going), you turn on the local news and learn about unions that sabotage company equipment/infrastructure, and (believe it or not), use firearms to deter scabs. Utopia? No...but they keep a balance that is important. A balance that leads to devastation and suffering if neglected.

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. So go and bon voyage, good luck

the rest of us will try to deal with it the best WE can

Hint, that was DONE here in this country not too long ago

Now since you are leaving, good luck... I guess we are done

[Oregone]

42. Perhaps cyclic, but regardless, were not in a great part of the cycle..

And compared to our wage, the expenses of today are devastating (and add in the cost of borrowing), it is literally indentured servitude. We will work through that, because we have no options about it. Thats just the reality.

I can sit around all day and wish the home I bought 20+ years ago decreased in value 33%, but instead I have to worry about the home I still owe X on (and x*.70 in interest on) being taken away (because I have to pay for healthcare and feed my family). Don't you understand at all where I am coming from...

I went to Canada where this guy was complaining about politics...I told him where I was from and he laughed. Said he had "mickey mouse" problems compared to me...well, you know what, you have problems (baby boomers), but they are damned Mickey Mouse compared to the 20 to 40 year olds today. If you think Bush fucked it up for you, add in interest, add in family costs, add in modern day home prices, etc). We have a lifetime of Bush's America.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Read above... EVERYBODY, and I mean this EVERYBODY is

in the shits right now

You have a house to pay

Your parents have a house and in some cases college to pay, or help pay for

And they have to think of retirement and they may face getting fired just before they get a pension, any pension.

THINGS ARE TOUGHT FOR EVERYONE...

YOU GET IT NOW?

Or do you really want me to bring out a violin section here?

[Oregone]

50. Tough yes, but to different degrees....

For example, 5/7th of my mortgage is interest, which many baby boomers do not have to pay. Its an amount that is more, per year, than my college costs my parents at one of the top colleges in the country. It is a meager and reasonable amount for others my age, and less than rent in an equivalent place now. And thats just to start.

Generations that have to have homes to accompany more than 2 people (which is purchased in the current market), who can only find jobs in this service base economy that will not pay the same wage to expense ratio you experienced, who have to pay a fortune for health care for a family, who are saddled with college debts, who are buying food for a family during inflation, etc, ARE HIT HARDER THAN YOU. Much harder. And it'll be lasting throughout their lives.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. You wanna bet?

Damn...

If you want to think and believe that you are unique fine

I am done with you... nothing will make you see that things are HARD FOR EVERYBODY .. EVERYBODY.

And now for the promised section

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

[Oregone]

62. You are the one continually whining about how tough your cushy life will be...

because as the article states, your equity dropped a bit in a home you should already fucken own if you aren't a complete idiot. Thats Mickey Mouse shit to people with families starting out. Go cry in a corner, because, as I started out saying, I don't give a shit. Things tough? Come out of retirement, get a damn job, and leave us the hell alone.

You've kept up with me whining post for post. At least I got something to complain about, for the people I see in this country struggling (despite not being one of them, per se).

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. Assumptions

Kid I am not a member of that group

I am a Gen Xer, you might have even been able to catch that if you read other parts of the thread

Any other ASSumptions you'd like to make

Oh yes, cushy life... another ASSumption I see from you

So how much pity should I have on you?

IT is about US, and you're playing RIGHT INTO THE FASCISTS by BLAMING OTHERS instead of WORKING WITH OTHERS

Thankfully I know kids IRL, who are having YOUR problems, and realize that it is about US... not ME... and realize that it is ABOUT HOW WE can survive this, not how I can survive this

See, that is a whole different attitude... and it is called, drum roll, community

[Oregone]

69. ASS, "kid", aren't you a gem...

Its not about pity, its merely about realizing that anything a retiree sees is a drop in the bucket to a young family in this economy. Communities are not homogeneous, with homogeneous concerns, expenses and demographics. Hence, communities do not homogeneously bare the consequences of economic problems. Do you suggest otherwise?

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. Have been saying this all this time

and the one making the assumptions was YOU

By the way I have also suggested, not that you are getting it, is that if WE, yes WE, are going to survive this, drop off the feel sorry for me and bitter attitude and realize EVERYBODY IN THIS FUCKING BOAT and we need to work TOGETHER

Perhaps you won't, but the rest of us. even your cohorts we know IRL, UNDERSTAND this

[Oregone]

80. Being together doesn't mean we suffer together equally,

Nor does it mean the problem should be addressed in a community equally to all demographics, despite such groups being affected differently.

You talk about surviving this...but we need policies to fix the problems (that is a liberal viewpoint). If we do not apply those policies sensibly, but instead pander to the lobby that perhaps has the highest voter turnout/interest/money, we are not going to solve shit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. See above...

have a good life in wherever you move to by the way

After all this will no longer be your concern

And JUST NOW you are making this about a policy debate

WHere you move, you will have OTHER worries, especially as an expat

Good luck with the rest of your life

[Oregone]

86. Thanks for your wishes!

But it will all be my concern still...I feel for the world, and my friends Ive left behind.

"Wherever you can look, wherever there's a fight, so hungry people can eat, I'll be there. Wherever there's a cop beatin' up a guy, I'll be there. I'll be in the way guys yell when they're mad."

Other worries I may have will be small. In a few months Ill have Universal Health Care in a modern nation with great wealth mobility. In a few years, Ill be a full citizen. Jobs and opportunity aplenty, I will personally have little to complain about...why else would I be running to something? Im very optimistic personally, but that doesn't mean I do not hurt for the rest of the world.

[Jed Dilligan]

31. I understand where you're coming from, but

this is not the site to go down that road. We have mostly boomers here who are still living in denial that the world they were promised will never come to be.

For me it's like, home ownership? What the fuck is that? If I'd ever had enough for a down payment on a house I would have left this spent country and set myself up in one with a future.

I'm going to a NZ immigration event tomorrow--wish me luck.

[Oregone]

34. NZ is very tough....

Just for your info...Canada and NZ require tons, compared to many other countries.

Ive experienced a lot of friction from the baby boomers regarding all this. Its really surprising. Everyone admits things are shit, but they aren't about to conceed that its going to be tough for us to live through this shit and build families (tougher than them that is--most baby boomers Ive talked to in real life are happy to admit this so its confusing to me).

[devilgrrl]

23. Seems to me that you bought at a good time?

If you hang onto it, wouldn't it go back up in value?

Forgive my ignorance, I've never owned a house. :hide:

[Oregone]

36. I bought at an incredibly good and lucky time...

In an incredibly good place (which doesn't allow that opportunity anymore). I was lucky and most people aren't given the opportunity. On the otherhand, I work from home, and am able to buy in a community that has an absurd unemployment rate and no high paying jobs. Poor beach communities with ocean view homes are not options for everyone.

[devilgrrl]

63. I was addressing Vincardog but thanks for the info.

eom

[Bluebear]

4. What a self-absorbed asshat you are.

As if all baby boomers ("they") voted in Bush.

[saracat]

7. Amazing isn't it? It all about him! What a selfish twit. The same kind that calls

all boomers "narcissistic and selfish" He needs a mirror.

[Oregone]

37. Im fine...

Its everyone around me I worry for. I guess you have no concern for the state of our country and those that have to live, buy homes, raise families, build savings, and exists within?

[bobbolink]

10. WHAAAAA??? You din't vote in *???

slacker.

:rofl:

[madrchsod]

8. you are a fool.......

[Faygo Kid]

11. " . . . they voted that asshole in. . .??" You talkin' to me? You talkin' to ME?

Fuck you. We are in this together, and I would no more tar and feather your generation with such bullshit generalities as to parrot the crap about minorities my generation heard growing up.

Stereotypical crap is a poor substitute for thinking.

Plus, our music was better.

[KoKo]

15. We are all in this TOGETHER...since Jerry Ford Pardoned that Nixon Criminal!

This OP seems to think life began and ended with "his/her" experience. Blaming "Boomers" for that damned Nixon, Reagan, Bush I and II?

Watch the Mainstream Media! Do you see how Obama is being treated? The "OP" might not remember how Carter and Clinton were treated by the MSM while Reagan and Bush I and II were given the "white glove" treatment.

It's not BOOMERS...it's the CORPORATISTS!

We are ALL IN THIS TOGETHER! None of us is Bill Gates or Steve Jobs or the others who managed to have the creativity to "cash in." We aren't Warren Buffet, either!

We are ordinary Citizens doing the best we can to keep up with changing techknology....job offshoring and all the Market Bubbles and raping of us in our "health care, lack of pensions and job security, and loss of jobs unlike we've ever seen since the Great Depression. Also "Climate Change." Don't blame some generation that spans 20 Years...but blame "The System" that allowed this to occur. Without a Media that tells us "Real News" and a RW Propaganda team that took over Radio...how can anyone be informed. For a little time the "Internet" has allowed us to have a "voice." It won't last...they are working on taking away our last tool for organizing to fight them. They won't stand for that...they will ruin it.

[Oregone]

43. We are all in it together, but my point is that everyone is not affected equally...

We all know rich people can profit perpetually through depressions....

Well, despite middle class baby boomers hurting, they do not have to worry about a fraction of the issues people do that are starting out in life during Bush's America. Debt, home prices, medical prices, lack of high paying jobs, no more industrial sector, record low upward mobility rates, etc. I only wish I was ready to retire with a home that went down a few thousand in equity. Rather, Im in a generation with negative equity, no options, massive bills, etc. If times are no worse now, to start out and raise a family, was Bush really that bad?

[KoKo]

103. I understand what you say......but it is only the "VERY RICH" who will get through this, coming

Depression. Everyone will be affected. The "Gilded Age" types won't but there are many you might view as being "wealthy" because they have a home and "some savings" who will be wiped out and they might have felt they'd worked hard all their lives...and put the "old rules of 20% down on their house...worked for years to pay it down but sent kids to college where they took some "equity out" and even though they didn't Max Out their credit card...there was a technology revolution and they might have had to pay for extra training and equipment and gone through some "job changes."

These people may seem wealth because they have a house that "went up" but one needs to look at the whole picture to see that another Depression...however slight will bring them down and hurt their kids...and money they need as they age and have health problems.

[Carnea]

106. Yeah really they rode the housing inflation gravy train and now they complain? nt

[silverojo]

20. "Plus our music was better?"

Was that childish comment really necessary? The music you like might suck, to someone else's ears. You're stating opinion as fact.

[Oregone]

38. Your music was better...40 years ago...

:)

Gotta give me that. Now, well, they are about on par.


90% of my collection is pre 73. I grew up on my parents vinyls. There is some incredible music made in the last 10 years though.

[GP6971]

13. Were you raised by Baby Boomers?

If so, then you benefited either directly or indirectly. Welcome to the real world. We've been here for awhile and I can tell you it hasn't been all the "cushy". So get off your soapbox and start working for a living and expecting things to be handed to you.

[silverojo]

22. No, I was raised by the Silent generation

They were pretty tired of boomers getting on their soapboxes in the 1960's (doing drugs and living on welfare) while the Silents were out working their butts off to make a living. They got sick and tired of shiftless, lazy young people (=boomers) throwing off the work on them in the workplace.

You see, yours isn't a perfect generation. What annoys people is how many of you think it is. Many of you frittered away your money (on drugs, for instance), didn't have a good work ethic, etc.

It reminds me of a cartoon I once saw...on the left, a hippie had a sign ("Never trust anyone over 30!"). On the right, this same hippie--grown up--had another sign ("Never trust anyone under 30!").

Finally....

NOBODY expects anything to be handed to them. That's Republican bullshit you're repeating.

[saracat]

24. Actually it is Republican BS YOU are repeating. Yours are the old tired

arguments that they used to discredit us for standing on those "soapboxes" and making chnge happen. Those kids weren't all just doing drugs and on welfare. They were amomg the best and brightest generation that we have ever had and if not for many of them and their "soapboxes" a lot of social change would never have taken place.The silent generation were in fact "silent" and while they had many admirable attributes thehir silence in the face of scial injustice was not a good thing.

[Oregone]

39. Yes I was...

So Im decent at the comparison. :)

[Warpy]

14. Never say never

and we have been here before as a country. The kids in their 20s with that crushing student debt are actually in a good place. Unlike us old boomers who spent our entire lives working for substandard wages and going into debt to compensate for them, these kids will be educated and ready to participate in the next boom time once the damage of everything done to us since the liberals went out of power in 1969 has been undone for them.

The short term will be miserable for all of us. Twentysomethings are poised to start over. People over 55 have little capacity to start over.

So stop whining about your generation. Your time will likely come and it will be far better than ours has been.

Remember, we didn't vote for that sack of shit, either. The cohort that was most likely to be pro Bush is now 35-50.

[Oregone]

40. Whine is all I hear...

Its a good way to ignore statistics. Look at the damn numbers...seriously.

Here is a number...the disparity in income has not been this great since pre depression. .01% pay is actually higher now (over 900X as much as average worker). We know this leads inequality & poverty (leading to crime, etc). Its about numbers, and numbers are not good. This isn't about whining.

How can we collectively say Bush fucked so much up, and then say its not as fucked up as its always been for everyone else? This makes no sense.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. Look here, smartass ........

I **prepaid** my college debt with my own fucking ass. It was called the GI Bill.

I got what I got, modest though it may be, by working hard.

I don't need a fucking lesson from you.

[Oregone]

41. I wish a GI Bill could fix our life's now.

I have friends in the military/guard, who still had to work their ass off on the side for college (as well as sell tons of family heirlooms), who still will not own their home they are committed to paying for life, who still will never pay their medical bills (one of which recieved a bill for their child over 1 million dollars).

Working hard to fix things isn't the problem. STUDIES have show we have the lowest rate of updwards mobility in the industrial world now, and hence, working hard amounts, statistically, to nothing. Its not the hard work, or lack thereof, that is the problem.

Upwards mobility is gone. The American Dream, most definately, is least likely to happen in America (more likely in Canada actually).

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Do your friends KNOW of the new GI bill making its way through?

Oh never mind, don't answer that question

Oh and as a wife of a RETIRED US Navy Chief, you are telling me nothing new

[Oregone]

87. Im aware of it, but we should be honest...

Military service is not mandatory any more, and the percentage of people involved in the service are far smaller than during WWII. A GI Bill now will help a select few people who are in the service, instead of a large section of the population that was drafted. Further, perhaps it will not be as utilized as before. That being, now the military service is not mandatory, those with college interest and job skills entered the work force or already pursued education. To help those, whose socioeconomic position may of convinced them to serve, attend a college or pursue training they may not be interested in, isn't exactly going to benefit the most people in the best way and turn around this nation like before. I think you are kidding yourself to think 50-70% of the people even in the army will fully utilize it.

Im not saying this is a bad idea. I am saying this bill is not going to have the same immense impact on our nation as the GI Bill did after WWII and Vietnam.

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. And you keep changing goal posts

Yes, it will cover those select few who were oh so darn lucky to go to war because economically that was the way out

Yes.... we do have a draft, it is an ECONOMIC draft

Have a good life wherever heaven you go to... after all you expect things to be that much better where you move

Take my word... countries change from what was to what is

The rest of us will try to change this place, or at least die trying

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

28. I'm a boomer and have owned my home for over 20 years. I do look at the value as a nest egg but

I also realize, that if the price is down, any other place I choose to purchase will be down in price too. I have never taken out the equity, even though there are times I really want to, I haven't because I know how precarious the housing market can be. When I purchased in 1987 housing was at a peak, and a couple of years later, the value of my home went down about $70,000. I bought it as a home and not an investment and slowly but surely the value increased. I am still away ahead of the game in terms of its current value. Thank goodness.

[MiniMe]

29. It partly depends on when you bought your house

I bought my house in 1989. When the housing boom was going on, my house was worth more than 3 times what I paid for it. I did refinance during the boom, and I took some money out to pay some bills off and reduced my interest rate at the same time. Prices have come back down, but I would still make money on the house if I had to sell it now. The biggest problem is that even if you sell your house, you have to pay for some place to live. My mortgage is now less than what I would have to pay for an apartment.

[-..__...]

30. As a "baby boomer"...

I have little to no sympathy for those that invested, realied or counted on real estate as way to make fast buck.

A home/house should never be a way to "get rich quick" or an investment... it should be a place to live, raise a family and if it suits your needs... a place to retire in.

With most of these people... their own greed did them in, and in the process made it more difficult for those with fewer means to own a home

Fuck'em.

[Carnea]

99. Boomer Yuppies hoisted by own Petard would make a better headline. nt

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Carnea]

104. fine cocaine disco designer jeans and fancy coffee drinks. nt

[devilgrrl]

105. Gotta love the American Enterprise Institute/Club for Growth trolls running around in this thread

:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:
:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:
:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:
:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:
:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke: