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ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:15 PM
Original message
Death penalty for child rapist
Death penalty for child rapist goes to Supreme Court

WASHINGTON – The U.S. Supreme Court said today it will decide whether a convicted child rapist can be put to death, thereby reconsidering a more than 40-year trend in the United States in which executions have been limited to murderers.

The justices agreed to hear an appeal from Patrick Kennedy, a Louisiana man who was convicted of the brutal rape of his 8-year-old stepdaughter. His lawyers described him has “the only person in the United States who is on death row for a non-homicide offense.”

Rape was commonly prosecuted as a capital offense in the 19th and early 20th Century, particularly for blacks in the South. In May 1964, Missouri executed Ronald Wolfe for rape, the last such as execution in this country for a sexual assault that did not result in death.

In September 1964, Alabama electrocuted James Coburn for robbery, the last execution for “any non-homicide offense,” according to the Stanford University Law School professors who appealed on Kennedy’s behalf.

Capital punishment was suspended in the late 1960s, but the Supreme Court restored the death penalty as an option for the states in 1976.

Just a year later, however, the justices struck down the death penalty for a rapist from Georgia. “We have the abiding conviction that the death penalty, which is unique in its severity and irrevocability, is an excessive penalty for the rapist who, as such, does not take human life,” the high court said in Georgia vs. Coker.

That 1977 decision was widely seen as outlawing the death penalty for a crime short of murder.

But in 1995, Louisiana’s lawmakers reauthorized the death penalty for aggravated rape when the victim was 12 or younger. Four other states – South Carolina, Oklahoma, Montana and Texas – permit capital punishment for a repeat child rapist, but no one has been sentenced to death under those laws.

In upholding Kennedy’s death penalty, Louisiana’s judges noted that Congress has authorized the death penalty for offenses such as treason, espionage or air piracy, which may not result in death. However, no one has been sentenced to die under those provisions.

Kennedy, 43, is black and has an IQ of about 70, his lawyers said. On the morning of March 2, 1998, he called the police to report his stepdaughter had been raped by two teenage boys in the neighborhood. She was taken away in an ambulance, having suffered severe injuries and heavy bleeding.

But investigators turned their attention to Kennedy when they found a trail of blood leading from the house. Early that morning, he had called a carpet-cleaning service before he called the police.

Initially, the stepdaughter confirmed Kennedy’s story, but she later pointed to him as the rapist and testified against him at his trial. He was convicted by a jury and sentenced to die in 2003. Louisiana’s high court upheld the punishment as constitutional.

This decision “flouts the overwhelming national consensus that capital punishment is an inappropriate penalty for any kind of rape,” said Stanford law professor Jeffrey L. Fisher in his appeal.

He noted that historically, the death penalty for rape was limited mostly to black men. Between 1930 and 1967, blacks made up 89% of those who were executed in this country for rape, according to a Justice Department report at the time. This included 14 men from Louisiana, all black, he said.

“This court should pause before condoning a practice so heavily tinged with the scourge of racism,” Fisher said.

The Supreme Court will hear the case of Kennedy vs. Louisiana and should issue a ruling by late June.

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jan/05/nation/na-scotus5
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hmm...
:popcorn:
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. I oppose the death penalty. Period. nt
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ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I also oppose it.
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Dukkha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. yup
it's easy to oppose capital punishment in most incidents. But it's incidents like this when your beliefs are truly challenged and you must stick to them regardless of the intensity of emotional responses to a heinous crime like this. Otherwise it’s just a shallow belief based on convenience.
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Me, too.
Always.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. Same here
He should never see the outside of a prison, but that's a public health and safety issue.

Even if I supported the DP, which I absolutely do not, this man's IQ of 70 should have led to a life in prison, not death. He simply didn't have the capacity to understand what he was doing to that poor child.

I hope she finds peace. I hope he stays locked away.
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FedUpWithIt All Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #17
31. Respectfully,
he knew enough to create a false story and influence the young girl to participate in the lie. He also had the forethought to clean the carpets. I would say he knew full well that what he was doing to the girl was wrong. He may not have fully realized the consequences but he was aware that there would be some.

That said, i am also COMPLETELY opposed to the death penalty under all circumstances.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
36. Me too.
It is barbarous, and there is always the chance of executing the innocent.

Specifically with regard to child rape, instituting the death penalty would just make it more likely that rapists would murder their victims to prevent them from testifying.

The UK hasn't had the death penalty in over 40 years and I am glad of it.
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norepubsin08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
48. Same Here
I oppose it for any reason also. Thank you!!!
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'd support it if he had killed the girl, but not for this....
I'd recommend castration with a dull, rusty butterknife in this case...

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ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Give him life without parole.
Castration is wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. I'm not as benevolent as some people.....
You don't know my background, but I've done things that *I* could have gotten the death penalty for... I still support it to this day and will continue to do so for the rest of my life. If I had been caught, convicted, and sentenced to death, I wouldn't have whined about, I would have taken my punishment... *without* appealing and wasting taxpayers money. Hell, I would have pled guilty and avoided a trial. I have no problem standing up and owning up to what I did. I didn't have to worry about that, though... cops, judges & D.A.s were too easy to buy in South Florida.... I used to be a 'monster', but I never harmed a child and I loathed people who did. I still do to this day. I'd kill them myself and never lose a minutes sleep over it...




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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #15
45. "I have no problem standing up and owning up to what I did"
So we can expect you to be taking a trip down to the local police station? Come off it. You think you could end the life of a living, breathing person and never lose a single night's sleep over it? If that's true, you are a psychopath and ought to be locked away. I rather think instead that you like using overblown rhetoric when typing.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. I think you don't know *who* I am or *what* I've done in my past...
therefore what *you* think doesn't mean dick to me. The only thing overblown here is your sense of self importance and arrogance. Just who in the HELL do you think you are?

"You think you could end the life of a living, breathing person and never lose a single night's sleep over it?"

No honey, I don't *think* it, I *know* it for a fact. That ship has done sailed several times. Please save your online diagnosis & faux outrage for someone who cares because you're wasting it on me. You also have no clue as to what I've done to atone myself since changing my life, either. For as much bad as I've done, I'll bet I've done more *good* for people in this world than you ever have..... I can almost guarantee it.

Thanks for your concern....


Ghost

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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Nor you I, friend (nm)
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #6
33. Just place him in the general prison population.
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. That's "cruel and unusual punishment"
Gotta stick to what the Constitution allows the legal system to do.

Though I must admit, I love your butter knife idea. :evilgrin:
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Gabi Hayes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. first thing that occurred to me:
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Yeah...that's a story the MSM covered up very well
Freakin' Republican perverts! :mad:
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. I do not support the Death Penalty....
I believe in the General Population Penalty...
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. Kill him!
Rape is so traumatizing, and even worse for a little child. We need to get tough on these horrible criminals--who, more often than not, end up murdering their victims.

Capital punishment is definitely called for in rape cases, because it's such a brutal, soul-destroying crime.

Those who are against capital punishment need to cultivate more sympathy for the victims than the perpetrators.
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PeaceNikki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Being against capital punishment is NOT being sympathetic to the accused.
That's a fallacy, a lie and a bullshit Republican talking point.

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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. It's not about sympathy for perpetrators. It's about what kind of society I believe in.
They execute criminals in stadiums in Saudi Arabia. Do you want to live there?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. It has nothing to do with sympathy and everything to do with justice. n/t
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
32. The guy has an IQ of 70 and you post "Kill him"?
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #10
37. No one is defending child rape...
most of us think that people who rape children should be locked up permanently.

But the death penalty just makes the state (and therefore all of us) into revenge-killers; and it's easy to end up executing the innocent.

'Rape is so traumatizing, and even worse for a little child.'

Indeed - but don't you think it may ADD to the trauma if the child knows their testimony got someone executed? Especially if, as is often the case, the rapist was a relative.

'We need to get tough on these horrible criminals--who, more often than not, end up murdering their victims.'

But isn't the death penalty for child rape going to make it MORE likely that they'll murder their victims to prevent them from testifying?
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #10
38. You misunderstand capital punishment so deeply
Edited on Wed Jun-25-08 10:42 AM by Lex
if you think being opposed to it somehow translates to less "sympathy for the victims."


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Phillycat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
13. I support the death penalty, and I support it in this case, too.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
16. I think the DP can be justified in certain circumstances of child rape
What we want to avoid, however, is a situation where a 19 year old is put to death for the "rape" of his 17 year old girlfriend, when the two of them were just having consensual sex. The law has to be written so that that does not happen.

But if we are talking about a young child and an adult, I think the DP could be on the table.

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BlueJazz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
19. I'll not support the taking of a Human's life. Not by anyone.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
20. I don't see how the SCOTUS is in a better position to decide this than the jury
Edited on Tue Jun-24-08 09:19 PM by Romulox
There is no question of law here, merely an opportunity for a group of 9 to substitute their own morality for that of the jurors' and the state of Louisiana. Any cursory glance of Constitutional Law jurisprudence reveals it to be nothing more than the assorted opinions (in the usual sense of the word) of ideologues.
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qazplm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. sure there is a question of law here
the judiciary must be the final arbiter of what is cruel and unusual punishment.

So if the jury and legislature all decided that the death penalty would be just fine for shoplifting you'd have the same attitude?
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I think that the punishment should be proportional to the crime.
I'm sure you agree. So does Scalia, Alito, Ginsburg, and Kennedy.

OK. fine. The problem is that we likely all disagree as to the definition of "proportional" when applied to various crimes. The Constitution has one terse sentence fragment on the subject. Heck--the SCOTUS has declared the death penalty per se "cruel and unusual" punishment, then changed its mind (so much for stare decisis! )

So there is no judicially manageable standard here: there are merely ideologues with opinions. That is because this is ultimately a question of morality, not law.
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Runcible Spoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
23. I shudder at the possible precedent this would set...
it's much much easier to frame someone for a rape than for a murder, and if you get certain types on a jury they will cry out for blood regardless of how flimsy the evidence is.

That said, abusing a child is one of the most atrocious things a human being can do to another, but as other posters said taking a human life is never right, even when the government is the one killing.
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Most states have greatly relaxed rules of evidence when the charge is sexual assault, as well.
For example, an accused rapist's prior convictions for sexual assault may be used against him at trial, while an accused murderer's may not. The alleged logic in lowering the protections given to an accused based on the nature of the charge has always alluded me...


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mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
25. "Kennedy, 43, is black and has an IQ of about 70..."
Gee, black and mentally handicapped, that's a twofer for the fuckwits who like to execute people, if only he was under 18, they'd have the fuckwit trifecta...:grr:
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two gun sid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. And those are the resons I do not support capital punishment.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #25
35. Seriously. I never thought I'd see calls for the execution of a mentally handicapped man here.
Edited on Wed Jun-25-08 10:29 AM by SemiCharmedQuark
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
27. I think it's time for some integrity.....
in this country. Kill everyone!
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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. A fine plan
Everyone form a circle, and at the count of three, kill the person to your immediate left.


One. Two...
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mcctatas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. no, no, no....
you missed the opportunity to do that when GD Primaries went to the great hate pile in the sky;)
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ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #27
34. LOL
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
39. Don't kill them - CASTRATE them. I believe they'd fear that more than death.
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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #39
49. Probably a clear violation of the VIII Amendment to the Constitution.
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varkam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
40. Let's skin him and then drink his blood!!!1!
Then, we can wear his flesh like a costume!

:scared:

What he did being despicable granted, I'm a little spooked by the ghoulishness of some who are willing to tiptoe around the constitution to recommend courses of action that would no doubt be found to be "cruel and unusual". I understand that crimes like this are hideous, but people do hideous things all the time. It doesn't make him less of a human being, only a human being who has done something terrible (and will be punished for it). I realize that a lot of this is just some kind of sadistic fantasy...but, I ask, why have such sadistic fantasies?
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Dogtown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
41. Absolutely *against* the DP
under any and all circumstances.
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gatorboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
42. Supreme Court rejects death penalty for raping children; 5-4 vote
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/25/court-rejects-death-penal_n_109125.html

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court has struck down a Louisiana law that allows the execution of people convicted of a raping a child.

In a 5-4 vote, the court says the law allowing the death penalty to be imposed in cases of child rape violates the Constitution's ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

"The death penalty is not a proportional punishment for the rape of a child," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote in his majority opinion. His four liberal colleagues joined him, while the four more conservative justices dissented.

There has not been an execution in the United States for a crime that did not also involve the death of the victim in 44 years.
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ccharles000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. good news
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-25-08 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
44. To Kill A Mockingbird
"He's a n----r accused of rape. Of course he's guilty!"
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