So if Obama has to vote FOR the FISA bill

[shugah]

because most Americans don't understand the bill, why is it not as important that he vote AGAINST, because most Americans don't understand the bill?

i mean really! besides those of us who are political junquies, who the hell else in the United States gives a good goddamn about the way Obama votes on this? his reason to vote "yay" carries no more logic or reason than a decision to vote "nay." the masses are just not paying attention to this vote, but we are! how about a bone, Obama?

[dailykoff]

1. The talking heads will crucify him if he votes for it.

They'll call him a wannabe tyrant, a flipflopper who got religion on terra and now sings Johnny's tune, etc.

It's a huge trap set by guess who, Cheney and Hoyer, who are hot to bomb Iran, and would love to see Obama go down.

[jgraz]

2. Obama has a 15 point lead, a worthless opponent and the ability to win on this issue

Remember what he did when the talking heads were crucifying him over Jeremiah Wright? Why can't we get one of those speeches when the Constitution is on the line, and not just Obama's chances in Pennsylvania?

If he doesn't step up to lead on something like this, what is it going to take?

[dailykoff]

3. That would be good, but he doesn't really need to.

All he needs to do to win is not make any mistakes, and voting yes would be a huge mistake.

[jgraz]

4. He doesn't *need* to fight for the Constitution??? What exactly is this election about?

Is it just about putting a (D) in the White House, or are there some actual issues at stake here?

[dailykoff]

5. He needs not shit on it to please Cheney and his buddies.

Other than that I'm personally more interested in seeing him win in November.

[jgraz]

6. Bush & Cheney can do a lot of damage between now and November

Are we really that afraid of Grampy McSame that we need to continually cave in to the most unpopular president in US history?? How is that leadership?

[dailykoff]

7. Well, with friends like Reid and Hoyer, I think he wins by winning.

This Congress is either bought or blackmailed and they're going to sell Obama down the river first chance they get, just like Hillary did. So I don't see the point of him grandstanding because it won't accomplish anything.

[jgraz]

10. Is that what Feingold and Dodd are doing? Grandstanding?

I really don't see a lot of people coming out to condemn them on their filibuster. How would supporting that filibuster get Obama "sold down the river"?

If I wanted a candidate to capitulate to Bush at the first opportunity, I would have voted for Clinton.

[dailykoff]

11. I guess I have low expectations.

I'll be happy if he doesn't vote for the damn thing because frankly I think he blows the election if he does. Beyond that any show of courage will be a pleasant surprise.

[jgraz]

12. Yes, those are pretty low expectations.

I don't see how Obama possibly blows this election, especially with this vote on this unpopular bill for this despised president. Hell, he could eat a puppy on live TV and he'd still beat McSame by 10 points.

[dailykoff]

20. If he gets suckered into playing the terra game, it's over.

McCain wins on terra, we lose. See 2004. Obama needs to tell certain "Dems" to STFU.

[jgraz]

21. This is not 2004, Obama is not Kerry.

Obama has shown a willingness to directly engage McCain on national security. That's the galling part of this: Obama has shown that he KNOWS how to beat McCain on national security and he hasn't shied away from it before now.

The other implication of your approach is even more troubling; should Obama vote for drilling in ANWR if polls show that it's popular? What about Habeas Corpus? What about torture? How about his stance on choice? How many of our core principles should be for sale?

We've seen that Obama's refusal to pander (see: gas tax) has gained him support at the expense of both Hillary and McCain. Why should that change now?

[dailykoff]

22. You asked how he could blow it. He's blowing it.

What possessed him to start yakking about terrists I don't know either, but he better get his mojo back or we'll be replaying 2004. :shrug:

[jgraz]

23. So I assume you're also hoping that McCain doesn't bring up the subject...?

What other pressing national issues should Obama avoid talking about?

[tavalon]

26. Blows the election!

I think you're out of your mind.

[tabasco]

8. Well said. ENOUGH of the pandering to the fearful and weak!

Time for our leaders to stand up for our liberty.

[robinlynne]

30. Thank-you.

[gateley]

15. Hoyer also got a bump in his contributions from the telcos:

http://www.maplight.org/FISA_June08

[jgraz]

16. Hoyer is a lost cause. Our only remedy for him is to vote his wrinkled ass out in 2010.

We need to start funding a primary opponent NOW.

[gateley]

17. Hoyer's not the only one who changed his vote and reaped

financial rewards from the telcos. Check out the link if you haven't seen it. It'll make your blood boil.

[jgraz]

18. Oh no, I've seen it. All of them need to go.

And my blood's been boiling since Obama said he would vote for this abortion of a bill.

[gateley]

19. Yeah -- I just don't understand that at all.

It just doesn't seem like something ANY Dem would say. Can't figure it out. Pisses me off, too.

[Skip Intro]

9. HAS to??? It's not about Obama, it's about your right & mine to be protected from our government.

It's about our rights, and protecting them. It's about our public servants serving the public good. Making good on the promise to uphold the constitution. It's about doing what's right.

Has to?

Are you telling me that the most soaring orator (...) of our time can't explain to the ignorant voters why he voted to protect their rights to privacy?

Yes or no, it doesn't matter, because it's not about taking stands on issues for political gain. Isn't that the politics as usual that Obama was going to change?

Fuck the poltical calculation on this issue. It's not about what's best for Obama or any political figure. It's about our rights and their duty to protect them. It's about doing what's right.

[jgraz]

14. Have you asked Hillary to support the filibuster?

We need all the help we can get to stop this.

[robinlynne]

31. interestingly enough Clinton, Obama, and MCCAin did NOT VOTE today on cloture.

The other two who did not vote are in the hospital. (Kennedy and Byrd.)

[Truth2Tell]

13. Yes, opposing FISA is a political winner with VOTERS, buuut

it's not a winner with a certain class of interest.

Obama will keep his mouth shut on FISA for the same reasons he went and ass-kissed at AIPAC and for the same reasons he's parading Clinton hold-over neo-libs and Wall Street hacks around as advisers.

There is an "establishment class" in American politics. It's an amalgamation of corporate, media and beltway insiders. Call it an oligarchy, or a military/intelligence/industrial complex, or a CFR consensus, whatever. The power wears many hats and has many names. But the bottom line is this: they run shit. It's not a conspiracy, it's just a conventional wisdom echo-chamber of the powerful and connected. And the fact is, as a candidate for President, if you cross this establishment, you cannot win. Can. Not. Win. Obama fully understands this and acts accordingly.

Our only hope is that Obama wins, consolidates power over time, and then steps outside the lines to make real transformative changes. He can't do it now. He may never do it. But it's our only hope.

[aquart]

24. "Ass-kissed at AIPAC"

With that attitude, sweetie, there is no hope.

But I love the way some people's prejudices masquerade as enlightenment.

[Truth2Tell]

29. I love the way some people

define any policy differences with the Israeli far right as "prejudice."

Your knee-jerk is showing.

[Skittles]

25. your spinning is making me dizzy

please stop

[barbtries]

27. it's bullshit

and hurts his credibility in my book a lot.

[bowens43]

28. He doesn't have to vote for it.

If he does vote for it , he's just like the all rest. No principles and no change.

[alfredo]

32. From what John Dean says, the FISA bill is so poorly written that the

immunity for the Telecos may not hold.

[fascisthunter]

33. If Obama Votes for This I Will Not Vote for Him

not in good conscious, I can't. My country will always come before politics. It's why this country has gotten so fucked up with corruption, it's why we are in the shit we are in. Too many times do people shrink from their own principles only to deal with the devil. No thanks....

Obama, do not let me down.

[KoKo]

34. I know...but the alternative is so terrible ....we have to hope Obama will

recognize that those who supported him for "Change" means it starts NOW that he's the presumptive nominee. We have to keep on him about things when he "slides."

[fascisthunter]

35. I Can Agree with That

but the FISA bill is just too large for me to rationalize away. If he votes for this to pass, I will not vote for him. I just can't....