Obama Tilts Toward Center, Irking Some Activists

[defendandprotect]

Obama Tilts Toward Center, Irking Some Activists
Stances on Spy Bill
And Corporate Tax
Buck Liberal Base
By SUSAN DAVIS
June 24, 2008; Page A8

Barack Obama's support of an overhaul of domestic-spying laws last week was the latest in a string of statements suggesting the Democratic presidential candidate is tacking toward the center to compete with John McCain.

On foreign policy, national security, tax issues and even local politics, Sen. Obama has made some decisions lately that belie his ranking by the nonpartisan National Journal as the U.S.'s "most liberal" senator.


During the primaries, he ran to the left of Sen. Hillary Clinton, securing the nomination in part by shoring up a base that included self-identified liberals and Internet activists who helped fill his campaign war chest.

Some of those supporters are irked by Sen. Obama's latest moves, but the general-election season will put increased pressure on both candidates to attract moderate and independent voters.

The latest Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll, conducted in early June, showed that 58% of voters perceive Sen. Obama as a liberal and 24% view him as a moderate. In contrast, 34% view Sen. McCain as a moderate and 48% see him as a conservative.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121426892467498729.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

[robinlynne]

1. and I am one of those irked. You won't see me out in the streets working if he votes yes on fisa.

won't even register voters which I ALWAYS do.
not even one little bumpersticker.
I will vote for him. that is it.
I learned my lesson in 2004 when Kerry didn't count the votes in Ohio after I worked for months for him, forfeitting paying work which I needed.

[gateley]

3. I think that's what needs to be done for strategic purposes, to win the GE --

but I don't get the FISA thing, though. Don't see how that plays into it.

[robinlynne]

6. It's the old pandering to the right makes more votes trick, I guess.

I don't believe in it.

[defendandprotect]

11. This is the LOSING argument that the DLC makes . . . a move to the right only helps McCain/GOP . . .

[Beausoleil]

21. Exactly.

Harry Truman said it best:

"When voters are given a choice between voting for a Republican, or a Democrat who acts like a Republican, they'll vote for the Republican every time."

The more the Dem candidate acts like a Rebuplican (especially in this day and age) the more likely it is that the Naders of the world get more votes.

You don't win elections by shitting on your base. Don't assume that we have no other choice. If your message is the correct one, don't pander to a mythical "middle".

Dance with the one who brung ya.

[gateley]

30. Okay - thanks to all of you who straightened me out.

So true, it's such a DLC thing - I'm ashamed I was buying into it.

And I love Truman's comment.

[G_j]

32. yep, nt

[defendandprotect]

15. My sympathies to those who truly believed in him . . . sad!

[wtmusic]

2. We knew this was coming.

From a strategy perspective, it's the way to win elections. Unfortunately.

[robinlynne]

7. Didn't work that well for Gore and Kerry....

[robinlynne]

8. What I mena is, if Kerry had counted the dman votes instead of playing nice to "the other side"

he would be in the whitehouse.

[DangerDave921]

9. acknowledge

Running to the right is an acknowledgement that liberalism is somehow out of the mainstream. I don't get it.

[defendandprotect]

12. No . . . it's poor "strategy" . . . it's DLC strategy which loses elections ---

[crickets]

36. NO

It's the way to LOSE. AGAIN. Plausible deniabilityfailure.

[AmyCamus]

4. Odd number - "58% of voters perceive Sen. Obama"

If all Republicans say he's liberal, that means many Democrats must not think he is.
Unless it's a rejection of the term "liberal" by Democrats?
Odd number, anyway.

[old mark]

41. Evidently, some of the crazy-right thinks he is

a muslim anti-christ satan.
And a specific percent of Dems think McC is too stupid to tie his own shoes.

But we never get the poll numbers on these folks - they could be significant.
(joke)
mark

[sharp_stick]

5. Unfortunately it's got to be done

there is no way a candidate will get elected in the country if they stray too far from the center line. All Presidential candidates do it and we have to try to figure out for ourselves what they really mean.

[DangerDave921]

10. so they all lie?

And we're supposed to read the tea leaves? What a crappy system.

[defendandprotect]

13. Actually, it is moving to the left that will get candidates elected . . ..

Moving to the right only helps the GOP ---

Nor do we need game playing in our elections with coded meanings ---

STOP playing along with it --

[MiniMe]

37. Not necessarily

Just because he is talking more towards the center before the election doesn't mean he will govern that way. Are you still going to vote for Obama in November? I certainly think you won't vote for McCain, so we aren't the ones he is trying to get to vote for him. It is the independents that he has to win over, and those stupid RayGun democrats. I won't lobby for him on FISA either, but he isn't the only one who caved. And he has already said that he would want to add an amendment to strip out telecom immunity. I would like to think that if he were President, he would veto the bill if it had retroactive immunity in it. Nobody knows for sure, but the alternative is unthinkable.

[nevergiveup]

14. Exactly

If the Democrat doesn't track to the center it is over. It is painful but necessary. Democrats have had two presidential candidates since 1944 that have garnered more than 50% of the popular vote. I believe Obama will be the third.

[defendandprotect]

16. Again, this is upside down DLC thinking . . . which only helps the GOP in their right-wing arena . .

Talking about elections without considering computer theft -- probably going back to the mid-1960's -- isn't really understanding ALL that has gone on in America since the coup on JFK . . .

which must actually be understood as "an overturning of the US government"--

[Cronopio]

20. When has centrist policy helped the majority of the American electorate?

With >$4 gallon gas, a failing market, and a foreign policy in the toilet, you'd think that Obama might second-guess the political maxim "The American public is always forgiving and forgetful, especially if you don't give them a choice."

Smart players know when the game has changed. Obama will lose more than he gains with this tactic, as Kerry did.

[SammyWinstonJack]

25. Same excuse, different election.

there is no way a candidate will get elected in the country if they stray too far from the center line. :argh:

[Phred42]

17. Face it Folks - The Dems KNOW that there is no choice - We HAVE to vote against the Repugs.

I hate that they can count on that because it give them license to do what ever they want for their Corporate masters
They can and do, ignore us

FISA
Immunity
Immunity Off the Table
etc
etc

[Cronopio]

22. The thing about relying on what marketers call "the mindset of futility" ...

... is that it breeds both passivity and non-involvement. You may go to the polls, but many more people than those on this forum will say "why bother?"

That's how the DLC is working to get McCain into the Oval Office. Whether this is what they are intending to do is not important.

It is stupid to support any organization that repeatedly works against its own self interest. Because it will always get around to working against yours as well.

[Cleita]

18. Which would explain why the Clintons are joining him on the campaign trail.

It seems they are tilting him towards the center where they operate from. Liberal Democrats might vote for Ralph Nader after all. Too bad.

[LanternWaste]

19. Necessary (and temporary) political posturing

Necessary (and temporary) political posturing. He's has the progressive vote all but wrapped up. Now he needs the tackle the moderate vote. I certainly don't think he's ignoring his record, or his ideals-- simply attempting to expand his voter base for the general election.

Afterward, when he takes office and cleans out the White House of the left-overs, he'll nominally return to his political roots.

Although I supported Sen. Clinton in the primaries, Sen. Obama is looking better and better to me every day. To me, this is simply illustrative of his political savvy.

[Cronopio]

23. Temporary? How do you know?

Was Bill Clinton's triangulation temporary? Answer: No, because he's still doing it, even out of office.

The progressive vote is only wrapped up the day after election day, and as Election 2000 taught us, the counting of that vote is never wrapped up.

[LanternWaste]

29. I have no absolute knowledge.

"Temporary? How do you know?"

I have no absolute knowledge. It's simply extrapolation on my part based on what I've observed and read about the good Senator.

[Cronopio]

31. Extrapolation from past actions is precisely what prompted my question.

He voted to fund the Iraq War more than once after condemning it. How can a potential voter extrapolate future actions from that?

I will be voting for Obama in the GE, but not on the belief that he'll be governing from the left. On the belief that if he's in the Oval Office, a certain Arizona senator with impulse control problems won't be.

[LanternWaste]

34. I imagine everyone will have

I imagine everyone will have a different and undoubtedly unique interpretation of the good Senator-- what he's done in the past, what he does in the present, and what he will do in the future.

For my part, I believe he will govern in a most progressive manner.

[Raksha]

24. I wish they'd stop using the word "center"

in that deliberately distorted way. As I said on another thread, the "center" the media and the politicians are REALLY talking about isn't between left and right. It is between the people and the corporations!

It's more true in relation to this FISA bill than just about anything else I can think of.

[EFerrari]

26. When did he not "tilt" to the center?

:wtf:

[devilgrrl]

27. The current incarnation of the Democratic Party is farther to the right of Arlen Spector.

What are you surprised about?

[frickaline]

28. Obama, will you make me very ....

[Skidmore]

33. To heck with right, left, and squishy middle...

It is time for the peoples of this nation to figure out that if we don't work together and arrive at some sort of common ground, we can just plan on not having a nation worth working for.

[crickets]

35. I do not consider Obama's hesitation to uphold his oath to the Constitution

as a Senator to be 'tilting' to the center. I consider it a hesitation to uphold his oath to the Constitution. Period. I am not an 'activist' for feeling the way I do.

I am a citizen.

I am not an 'activist' for questioning his future Presidential stance toward the Constitution given his Senatorial one.

I am a citizen.

[agentS]

38. When the rubber meets the road...

is where it matters.

There's no way in hell I'd ever vote for McWarmonger, the Stray Cock Express. But that doesn't mean I won't vote for Mckinney either.
As long as McCrane is NOT in office, I don't care...well I do care- I wouldn't want that "white man's candidate" (the racist 3rd party guy on Wikipedia) to win either.

McCain would run this country deeper into the ground. Obama sure as hell won't, unless Bush has already dug us in too deep. In which case, we're screwed and even St. Obama can't save us.

This FISA thing is irksome, that's for sure. However, I think Right-Wingers should be more worried about this.
Obama sounds like he's got a plan. Either
a) he'll let the ACLU scuttle tje thing in a lawsuit
b) order Congress to revoke the immunity and the 7 days warrentless wiretap clause
or, if I were in his shoes
c) keep that law on the books and as president, use those warrentless wiretaps against the GOP and obnoxious conservatives. Possibly even let tape 'mysteriously' appear in the hands of TMZ or Pervez Hilton.
I can see it now;
Dobson: Yeah Mel Martinez, old friend, we should get Trent Lott reelected.
Martinez: Sounds like a plan to me! He'll be our lackey again...what's that coughing sound?
Dobson: Not me.
NSA spy: Don't mind me. I have a chest cold.
Martinez: Who the hell is this?
NSA spy: I am with the NSA. We're wiretapping this call.
Martinez: You can't do that! That's illegal!
NSA spy: Yes we can! You helped pass the law to make it happen, remember?
Dobson: FISA's update?
NSA spy: Yes. Why do you think the President didn't oppose it?
Martinez: That's not fair!
NSA spy: You should've thought about that before!

See, Rethugs...see what happens when you abuse the Constitution! Obama might just want to use that law on you. As far as I'm concerned, y'all are as bad as Bin Lauden. Obama might even see you in that way as well.

[crickets]

39. So you're saying you want Obama to be just like Bush (or Nixon)?

-by using warrantless and unConstitutional wiretaps? Don't even try to spin that BS. That's filthy wrong.

[agentS]

40. what goes around

comes around. Rethugs haven't thought this one thru and I can't wait to see the look on their faces when it does.