there is one very good way in which the next president could follow in hitler's footsteps...

[dysfunctional press]

http://ask.yahoo.com/20050308.html

...In the 1930s, cars cost more than most people earned in a year. When Hitler became the chancellor of Germany in 1933, he promoted the idea of a car affordable enough for the average working person. The Volkswagen, which means "people's car" in German, was essentially a political promise to win the public's goodwill.

Hitler met with automotive designer Ferdinand Porsche in 1933 and charged Porsche with creating the new car. The chancellor required that the Volkswagen carry two adults and three children, go up to 60 miles per hour, get at least 33 miles per gallon, and cost only 1,000 reichsmarks.

combine that type of idea with kennedy's apollo program, and CHALLENGE the u.s. industry to come out with a workable, affordable electric vehicle to be built in the u.s., and add to that a challenge to make solar power/fuel cell technology a workable/affordable alternative for getting people's homes free of the power grid. and then put americans to work building/implementing both.

[Make7]

1. A Porsche in every garage! ( n/t )

[Cleita]

2. You couldn't give me one.

You would need a mechanic in every garage too. Luxury sports cars need a lot of pampering. However, an American made car that is affordable and doesn't create pollution or run on petroleum could be a dream come true.

[dysfunctional press]

6. if the auto companies don't want to design/produce one...

the government should get into the business.

[Cleita]

7. I agree, but you will have those coming around who will say

it's communism.

[Clark2008]

12. Amen

My hubby's Beemer needs it's own electrician - not mechanic.

My American automobile never needs anything but an oil change and a bath.

[eridani]

29. PORSCHE

Pulled Over Regularly So Cops Have Enough

[Make7]

35. What I was actually going for was a play on a Herbert Hoover quotation.

Perhaps I should have written:

    A chicken in every pot and a car Porsche in every garage.

Oh, well. I hadn't heard the acronym you posted before. Regarding that, it's probably difficult to stay close the speed limit all the time when you're driving a car that can so easily surpass it by such a wide margin.

-Make7

[Oregone]

3. Well, I really don't think we need more affordable cars here at all.

We need more buses, much more. Maybe some more rail systems too.

[dysfunctional press]

5. our entire infrastructure is designed around personal vehicles.

busses and rail aren't and wouldn't be workable solutions for many many many people.

finding affordable/sustainable ways to power personal vehicles that doesn't involve internal combustion is infinitely more desirable.

[Oregone]

10. We can easily do more buses

People are commuting massive amounts these days. If we just set up bus hubs for long distance commuters (who drive personal vehicles to them), we can save a lot of energy and money yearly.

I feel our massive emphasis on personal vehicles promotes inequality, and a lot of people do not realize that any energy efficiency increases will only be enjoyed by those with enough income to purchase a new model. Yes, even considering the point of the OP, some people don't have more than a grand to blow on a new car (especially when they have an old one theyll never be able to sell), and I don't see cars getting down that low.

If we are going to sit around and talk about saving money and energy, we should seriously consider buses. Setting up more busing hubs and routes (that everyone can access), is a drop in the bucket money wise compared with creating this perfect car and getting everyone to buy it (no matter what the cost). Many buses are already "green" (have been for a decade), but are incredibly underused in this society.

The cheaper the car (as the OP is hoping for) is just another factor that will keep us from getting serious about public transportation.

[krispos42]

20. The US car fleet would have to cycle in the new cars

Mine, for example, is 20 years old. But, it's a GM full-size that gets 24mpg, so I can't complain too much, even if it looks like a piece of shit.

The problem with buses is that it become too hard to get around. The routes are too short, and connections are problematic and time-consuming.

I went to see "Walking with Dinosaus" with my at the Xcel Energy Center a couple of weeks ago. To take a bus from my ex's place required almost two hours and a connection or two. But driving about four miles, I was able to pick up the direct bus to downtown St. Paul and was there in less than a half-hour. For $1.50.

Many people are now going suburb-to-suburb, but bus and rail services is focused on suburb-to-city-center travel, which makes going from one side of a city to the other a real pain in the ass.


Regarding the Twin Cities area, I'd like to see a ring of light-rail going around the outer suburbs, a second ring going through the inner suburbs, a third ring going around through Minneapolis/St. Paul, then a lot of "spokes" radiating outward from each downtown to the outer suburbs, and finally a downtown-Minneapolis-to-downtown-St. Paul line. Each spoke line would terminate in an outer suburb and would connect with all three rings. Bus services would bring people in the suburbs to their local light-rail station, and then they could either go to another suburb or the Cities, then finally catch a second bus to take them to their destination.


The other problem is that things like train and bus stations become police-surveillence zones, with CCTV camers and facial-recognition tracking systems.

[dysfunctional press]

21. one of the main reasons that busses are underutilized is that they are nowhere NEAR as convenient...

as personal vehicles. that is what our society is geared for, it's what people WANT, and it is definitely what would serve the needs of MOST people BEST.

sorry.

[Maine-ah]

11. that wouldn't work for those of us who live and work in more rural areas

and moving is out of the question when you don't have the money to do so.

[Oregone]

14. I agree on that, but a few things...

If you live in a rural area and need to perform agricultural duties, a little energy efficient car isn't going to cut it anyway, right?

A single station 20 miles from the city center in a rural area, visited twice a day wouldn't be incredibly costly, and would help those commuters who would just have to drive to the station.

If you often drive a few towns away for shopping or visits often, a hub at the nearest town would cut down on personal transportation costs drastically.

There is definately room for public transportation, at any level (minimal) in rural areas. Ive ridden buses out in completely no where, on an efficient public system for years that worked well.

I think the demands of the rural atmosphere change a lot of factors, but if people are smart, there is are methods of using public transportation to cut down drastically on costs.

[Clark2008]

13. We need affordable alternative-energy cars - with lots of choices.

First, I think the Prius is ugly and, having a union engineer father, I ONLY buy American (plus, you get more car for less and they don't cost two paychecks to fix IF they ever need it). More choice here would be nice: an American alternative-energy car that doesn't look like a bubble and one that doesn't cost $30,000 ($17,000 is more affordable).

Secondly, it would take YEARS to rebuild our transit systems outside of the big cities to accommodate light rail and YEARS to build up our bus fleets. We need alternative-energy automobiles in the interim, even though I agree we need more public transportation, nationwide.

[Oregone]

17. But it will take years to develop a noteably more efficient car (with fueling stations), and years

before the used ones become affordable enough for everyone to buy (I NEVER buy a new car). So its pretty much a neck in neck thing.

When most of these politicians are talking about subsidizing efficient car development (giving money to their friend's company), they aren't envisioning a prototype coming out next month.

[dysfunctional press]

26. but light rail to everywhere and fleets of shiny new busses are just going to appear overnight?

:shrug:

more people want and would be better served with an investment in developing the technology for affordable personal vehicles. light rail/busses/etc. can also be a part of the mix- but the focus needs to be on the personal auto-mobile device.

[Gabi Hayes]

4. funny you should mention the Apollo project.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3514571

[defendandprotect]

9. Anyone advocating any further burning of fossil fuels is insane ---

It's over ---

Haven't read it all, but . . .

coal -- nuclear --- absolutely insane!

[BigDaddy44]

32. Do you drive a car?

[defendandprotect]

8. Democratic president = Electric Cars --- should be!!!

As for the Apollo program . . . fascists ended up in charge . . . rethink that one.

[Gabi Hayes]

18. problem is, where to get the electricity for the electric cars?

the transition to clean fuel will be a LONG one, and it's probably too late, anyway, so why worry, right?

so pick your poison. there are no good choices

that's why I included Carter's energy plan, to show what could have been. he was wrong on coal, but things were different, climate-knowledgewise, thirty one years ago, so he gets a pass

have you read that speech?

right up there with the Gettsyburg Address, IF it had been followed, that is.

unfortunately it reads like an ironic epitaph

[Oregone]

19. We could make big generators that run on petro!

:)

[defendandprotect]

28. For one thing, we use a lot of electricity in refining oil ---

carting it around, pumping it --- to name just a bit of the savings ---

See the movie: "Who Killed The Electric Car?" ---

It will answer many of your questions --- and, it should make you really angry at

this suicidal industry and criminals in White House/Congress ---

[defendandprotect]

27. Only a long transition if the oil industry stays in power . . .

Electric cars have been on our roads in CA --- thousands of them --- for almost 4-5 years . . .
beautiful cars ---

You're also counting on today being tomorrow ---
The ability to put electric cars on our roads already exists ---
and alternatives such as solar panels on cars -- and solar cells are also feasible.
And many other ideas which are all being held back by oil industry --

Carter put solar panels in the White House -- Reagan took them out ---!

Haven't read Carter's speech ---

Did you see the movie: "Who Killed The Electric Car?" --- see it ---

[ColbertWatcher]

15. I thought you were gonna say "grow a mustache" n/t

[JackRiddler]

16. Um, you know this ended up as a scam, no?

Germans paid into subscription plans for their VWs right up until Aug. 1939, when series production was scheduled. At which point the money was cashed in as Volkswagen was converted into a war producer making increased use of forced labor until the end of the war.

[dysfunctional press]

22. you mean there never was a vw beetle...? wow.

:eyes:

[JackRiddler]

23. AFTER the war.

Barely any Kaefer (Beetles) were produced prior to the war. After the war VW was reorganized under the British occupying force and relaunched with success as the producer of the Beetle.

During the war the basic plan was instead used for the "Bucket Cars," semi-amphibious vehicles for two, commonly used by German officers. (You've seen'em in movies, I bet.)

Look up the history.

[Krakowiak]

24. good to see someone posting this history

This was just another case of Hitler appropriating funds for his war machine. Seems a bit ironic to suggest Bush follow in these footsteps (or any of Hitler's prints for that matter).

[JackRiddler]

25. Some here seem impervious to history, but thank you!

[theboss]

30. Is the plan to develop the Tiger tank?

I'm rather confused by why you are promoting a Nazi plan to create an efficient war machine?

[dysfunctional press]

31. it would be about developing an affordable, workable "people's car"....

one that would not use internal combustion as it's means of locomotion, and be built in the u.s.

[JackRiddler]

33. So. Have you actually informed yourself about the history of the Volkswagen yet?

[JackRiddler]

34. By the way, notwithstanding the Hitler bit...

it's a great idea.

California should fund an enterprise to mass-produce the very same electric cars that did so well on its roads and were viable on the market but were scrapped by GM anyway, as documented in "Who Killed the Electric Car."