Maneating mountain lion snared & killed this morning

[Thirtieschild]

For the last two weeks a mountain lion had shown itself on our road - he stalked one couple who were walking their dog, foraged in the trash can of the people across the road from us, another couple woke one morning to find him on their deck. That night he killed and ate a man about a mile away. State and federal game officials had been out with dogs, also set out snares, and he was caught in a snare this morning and then shot. He was a small male, 3 or 3 1/2 years old, apparently healthy. Right now he's on his way to Albuquerque for autopsy. Our road is relieved. People can walk again without carrying a gun.

[Cleita]

1. Usually,

there is a link to the news story. Did you forget?

[Marrah_G]

5. The OP was writing a personal account- not a news story

[Thirtieschild]

7. I didn't forget the link because there isn't one.

I talked to the people who were stalked by the lion (they live across the road from us) and this morning I saw the dead lion myself, lying in the back of a pickup, talked to the conservation officer in charge. The news gathering here is pitiful, which means in this case I'm it. My husband is in charge of investigating unattended deaths in this county, called me this morning to meet him at state police headquarters with his camera.

[Cleita]

10. Thanks for replying.

It seems this is newsworthy and someone should call the local newspaper and give them the story. Every now and then they kill a cougar in my area and they do put it in the newspaper.

[ben_meyers]

12. Here is the story

PHOENIX - A mountain lion attacked, killed and partially ate a New Mexico man, authorities said on Tuesday.

A search party found the body of Robert Nawojski, 55, in a wooded area near his mobile home in Pinos Altos, New Mexico, late last week, the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish said.

Investigators concluded that Nawojski had been attacked and killed by a mountain lion, or cougar, at a spot close to his home, where he lived alone and was known to bathe and shave outdoors.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25354688/

[Bob Dobbs]

2. Tragic

that humans have to live in mountain lion habitat.

[hedgehog]

13. Based on previous posts, this all started with some people who didn't

respect the cougar for what it was. They were feeding it raw chicken, thus accustoming it to humans and to being fed by humans. If there isn't a law against this, there should be!


We had a similar case here in Central New York a few weeks back. A black bear was seen in a suburban area, but reacted badly to the tranquilizer when it was captured and had to be put down. It turned out that the bear had a history of hanging around humans and had been fed by people that thought it was "cute".

[pt22]

22. You can get away with feeding a wild animal...just make damn sure you always HAVE food for it.

:shrug:

[havocmom]

31. Nope. A fed predator is a dead predator. They don't just come to one person for chow

Once they are accustomed to getting food from humans, they figure we are all a food source and they become dangerous to us and themselves.

Do not feed the wildlife, even if you own a meat packing plant. Big critters who get comfy dining around humans will likely get themselves killed for the habit. Anyone who feeds the big predators is guilty of causing a lot of heartbreak for those animals, and probably some humans too.

[pt22]

32. Well, that is precisely the point I was trying to make. Too subtly, apparently.

You are of course exactly right.

[havocmom]

53. I knew your point, but also know too many wouldn't grasp it

I sometimes wonder if a short test shouldn't be given to people before they are let off the pavement ;)

Worked for a chap whose wife summered up on Mt. Lemmon. She thought it was fine to feed bear sows and cubs as she had lots and lots of food. Several bears died due to her arrogance and I know one young lady who had more surgeries than you can count on your hands due to the problem that twit created. The young woman who was severely attacked WAS bear smart, did everything right, but the bear had just become too used to eating from humans.

One sow actually paid attention to the delivery schedule at the village cafe. She knew when the back door would be left open and followed the delivery man right into the kitchen! She shook the place up a bit, ran through the dining room and out the front door.

They are so much smarter than most of us realize. And they are watching! ;)

[Thirtieschild]

14. We knew we live in mountain lion territory

But this isn't an urban area where the lion turns to people because there isn't any game. Lots of game here - last week I counted nine mule deer at one time. So we don't know why this lion turned to people. A female lion had been killed a year or so ago on the highway, soon after a donkey was attacked by a lion in the hindquarters, not the neck. (The donkey lived.) I've wondered if this was an animal who hadn't learned to kill properly when he was orphaned. Before this happened one neighbor had complained that the man across the road from him - who seems to be out of town now - had been feeding raw chicken to a mountain lion. Also, Game & Fish were called several times about the lion showing himself to people but didn't do anything.

[uppityperson]

16. I do hope that police talk with that guy, who may have fed it.

I find it sad when people feed wild animals, whether they be bears, mt lions, or even raccoons. It isn't fair for anyone concerned, the people or the animals.

[Oregone]

17. It was probably scared shitless

This happens with young mountain lions all the time. Mountain Lions would prefer to leave areas that are encroach upon, but the younger ones do not have a choice. The large lions require a 6 mile radius, per lion, of hunting ground. This guy was probably on the bottom of the totem, and forced into areas with human activity. Despite food being plentiful, do you think hes not going to be scared?

Its just sort of a sad situation really.

[Thirtieschild]

26. I agree. It's very sad.

I've felt bad for both the man who was killed and the lion who killed him. My husband wrote a novel about a man-eating tiger and when he started the book he knew two things, that the tiger would be out of his element (the mountains of North Georgia) and that the tiger would have to die. I knew from the beginning that this lion would have to die. The lion foraging through neighbor's trash can for food took me to the scene in the novel that described the tiger's hunger, and felt so bad for the lion. This morning, when I looked at the dead lion and picked up his paw, I felt as though I had walked into the pages of my husband's book.

[BigDaddy44]

25. Should humans be forbidden from living in mountain lion habitat?

Please name me the habitat where potentially dangerous, wild animals couldn't or have never lived?

The only one I can think of is Antarctica.

[LanternWaste]

33. Didn't appear to me the poster was advocating a ban

Didn't appear to me the poster was advocating a ban, simply expressing his/her dismay at a tragedy.

[BigDaddy44]

38. He said:

"its a tragedy man has to live in mountain lion habitat". Why? I live in bear habitat. Is it a shame I have to live here? We ALL live in a habitat of some potentially deadly animal.

[The Stranger]

40. No we don't all live in the habitat of some potentially dead animal.

Suburban sprawl and every asshole wanting their little place in the sun has encroached upon wildlife that has been there long before we were.

[MonkeyFunk]

59. no, we all pretty much live in the habitat of some potentially deadly animal

Could be something as small as a poisonous spider or snake. But there are no areas designated "human only".

[LanternWaste]

46. All better now?

One can very easily extrapolate from "its a tragedy man has to live in mountain lion habitat" to "its a tragedy man has to live in mountain lion habitat because tragedies will undoubtedly occur from time to time"

Although I imagine that a narrow or closed mind may have trouble making a simple inference, or may simply want to make some self-defined clever point...




"I live in bear habitat. Is it a shame I have to live here?"
It's not a shame that iy have to live there-- it's a shame that a tragedy may probably occur resulting in death and/or injury to both human and wildlife.


All better now?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. Take it to the lounge.

I'm sure they'll find your man-eating cougar stories much more interesting.

[shraby]

21. Did you have to be rude? Not necessary you know.

It's an important story when a person is killed by a mountain lion particularly to people who live in the vicinity.

[Thirtieschild]

27. Thank you for understanding.

[havocmom]

55. Very important to many AND a serious subject: man's encroachment on wildlife

It is a pretty complicated subject and not fodder for silliness in the Lounge.

I agree, the hooligan was uncharacteristically rude this time.

[pt22]

4. I thought you were making that up...but it seems to be true

:shrug:
http://www.kdbc.com/Global/story.asp?S=8553746

[Thirtieschild]

8. No. it happened.

[pt22]

9. I changed my post. It just seemed unlikely at first...

sorry.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. How scary

Glad they got him.

[aikoaiko]

11. Keep the guns on walks --- there's more than one out there.

[Oregone]

20. Probably a good idea.

I don't hike without a handgun now, just in case. I run into cougar sighting signs all the time.

[Thirtieschild]

28. Game & Fish says there are between 2000 and 3000 mountain lions in New Mexico

A lot of them are in this neighborhood - perfect territory for them, broken terrain, pino-juniper woodlands, boulders, ridges. Probably it is a good idea to continue to go armed and I hope my husband will listen to me. I do worry about the road's star athlete who trains by running with her dogs early in the morning. At the moment I'm out of the hiking business - bone spurs eating into my Achilles tendon.

[havocmom]

30. Is there a lot of rabies in the area? Was it a younger, inexperienced lion?

Wondering why a normally secretive critter would become so bold.

I am thinkin wildlife has been pushed as far as it is willing to go and is now defending home ranges. Seeing more aggression in lots of species all over the west.

But, I do know there are rabies outbreaks and that can also make critters behave badly. Ditto for younger animals that are stressed and not surviving well.

Keep us posted. Am most interested in news from your area. Might we become intermittent DU PM penpals?

Thanks,
hm

[bean fidhleir]

42. "I am thinkin wildlife has been pushed as far as it is willing to go"

I'm thinking the same. We've been so invasive that we've forced and are forcing entire species into total extinction. The wonderful near-human organgutans are on the edge right now and it's anyone's guess whether it's already too late to save them.

[depakid]

39. That shows how much you (or most Americans) know about mountain lions

The animals are very territorial and their territoies are quite large.

They rarely attack humans and the ones that do have either been habituated or are are usually sick or starving animals, whose natural fear of people has been overcome by hunger.

[aikoaiko]

48. What does that have to do with being prepared in case an attack occurs?

Beyond mountain lions, there are other predators (e.g. humans).

[havocmom]

56. The topic is LION who did eat part of a person, so a gun would be a good idea

There is obviously a problem lion or two in OP's 'hood. THAT is the point.

[The Stranger]

41. Is it possible to go on a walk without killing the wildlife?

In fact, isn't that preferable?

Eventually, there is going to be no point in going on the walk -- we will have killed everything.

[aikoaiko]

47. If a mntn lion attacks a person, I'm of the opinion its ok to kill it in order to stop the attack

I'm not saying one should walk around looking for opportunities to take pot shots. I'm talking about self-defense.

It is not preferable to die from a mountain lion attack.

[The Stranger]

49. I suppose you don't HAVE to go on the walk in the first place.

Certainly everyone would be alive and well if you didn't go on the walk through mountain lion country with your guns.

[Thirtieschild]

51. I don't understand your point. No one wants to kill but no one wants to be killed either.

A predator turns to humans either when game is scarce or when the animal is injured and neither appears to be the case here. (Unless my speculation is correct that his mother was killed before he learned to hunt large game.) This area is sparcely populated, lots of game, we are within sight of the Gila National Forest and Wilderness Area, I think the largest national forest in the country. We understand that we share this area with mountain lions, in fact realize that we have moved into their territory. No one wants to kill an animal, but we do enjoy morning and evening walks down our country road. After the lion began showing himself my husband loaded a shotgun first with non-lethal beanbag shots and then with lethal shots. The idea was to tell the lion not to come too close. Our neighbor, who was stalked by the lion, thinks he hit it with one of the beanbag shots. It's prudent to be armed, just in case.

[uppityperson]

15. Glad your community is safe again.

That is really too bad, all the way around. Glad you are safe again.

I lived in rural AK where a bear was going bad, chasing people, climbing through windows into cabins. It can be very scary and I'm glad you're safe.

[newmajority]

18. Too bad it wasn't a PUMA

:hide:

[slackmaster]

23. Or a catamount

:hi:

[pt22]

24. Or a catamite!

:D
:hi:

[Dr.Phool]

57. Or a catamaran!

Or is that catamoron?

[olkaz]

36. No kidding, jeez, the RAAAAAAGE of a PUMA puts a mountain lion to shame!

Those postmenopausal uneducated masochistic assholes have a lot of time on their hands and a lot of RAAAAAAAAGE to unleash.

Don't roll your window down.

[AngryAmish]

19. Will someone try to burn down Mayor Daley's cottage again?

[Thirtieschild]

29. More news

Just got this e-mail:

whoops, better give it a couple days before you relax too much. L
from the sun news.
Dan Williams, spokesman for Game and Fish, confirmed Tuesday that game
officers using hounds and snares in an attempt to capture the mountain lion
believe there may be two lions in the area.

"They do think there may be two lions in that area," he said. "Based on the
tracks they found while trying to track the one."

The confirmation strengthens statements made by Pinos Altos residents that
several encounters between residents and a mountain lion overlapped, leading
many to believe two lions were roaming the area.

Trackers with Wildlife Services were searching an area west of Highway 15
about two miles south of Pinos Altos Tuesday for sign that the big cat was
traveling the saddle area between two peaks.
***************************************************
Haven't been able to find a link to verify this. The source was someone close to Wildlife Services.

Here's what I did find.

http://www.lcsun-news.com/ci_9690801
Services.
Cougar suspected of killing man has been captured, killed (11:43 a.m.)
Sun-News report
Article Launched: 06/25/2008 12:01:40 PM MDT



LAS CRUCES —A mountain lion that may have killed a Pinos Altos man was captured in a snare and killed this morning, according to the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish.

The lion was an average-sized adult male weighing roughly 125 pounds, according to the department. It had four bullet holes that appeared to be from buckshot.

The animal is suspected to have killed 55-year-old Robert Nawojski on June 17 or June 18 near his small mobile home in a wooded area of Pinos Altos north of Silver City. Nawojski's partially eaten and buried body was found June 20 near a rock ledge about 60 yards from his home where he liked to bathe and shave.

A Department of Game and Fish officer had shot and wounded a lion with buckshot June 19.

The lion was caught in a U.S. Department of Agriculture Wildlife Services snare about a half-mile from the rock ledge where Nawojski was believed to have been attacked. The lion was killed. Its body will be taken to the New Mexico State Police Crime Lab for a necropsy.

USDA Wildlife services agents and department of game and fish officers with hounds were still searching for a second lion reported to be in the area.

"But we're confident the lion we caught last night was the one wounded


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by our officer ... ," game and fish department Officer Leon Redman said.

[pt22]

34. Your link is fine.

Wouldn't be surprised if there's another one...or more. I hope it can be captured and relocated. I hate it how the wildlife always gets the short end of the stick when it comes to habitat competition with us subhumans. :grr:

[havocmom]

35. Hope visitors to Pinos Altos keep their pets on leashes or, better, leave them at home

Met up with a city slicker on a part of Mt Lemmon (above Tucson) called Bear Wallow. The idiot let his two lovely labs outta the car to 'run free'. I advised him that there were bears in Bear Wallow and recently they had killed a few dogs and seriously injured a couple of people.

His response? "It's fall. Bears are hibernating", with disdainful eye-roll. I pointed out that he was in shorts and a short sleeve shirt, so it was likely the furry bears were not too stressed by the 'cold' and just might be awake noshing on the wild raspberries not 200 yards from where we stood.

He made some other disparaging remarks about how his dogs were safe because I didn't know what I was talking about. My companion, a 74 year old naturalist, grabbed my arm and shushed me. "Let the asshole go play with the bears." Yeah, but it would be his dogs who would suffer most....

People need to understand the mountains have wildlife and it is not always the same as a walk in the city park. I hope people keep safe and keep their pets (and pet food) inside. Hope visitors keep their animals out of harm's way. Looks like you still have potential for more heartbreak in your area.

Keep us posted. My wayward daughter is heading your way next week. I am emailing your posts to her. She may just stay in Silver City and not head to Pinos Altos area.

[Thirtieschild]

37. My husband says that when they catch the 2nd lion they plan to kill it.

Killing the second one for the actions of the first one seems so unfair. There's going to always be a lion around here - when these two are gone more will show up. The second lion seems to be on the other side of 15. We're on the east side, and so were the killing and the capture.

The stupidity of some people. I'd be surprised if a bear in Tucson hibernates at all. At least not because of the weather. We've seen bear scat here but haven't see a bear. We spent 39 years in Atlanta, and I feel safer here, even with lions and bears, than I did there.

Our dogs have a dog run outside our bedroom door to use at night. They will go out into the back during the day to do their business, but always stay within sight. The big red dog walks on the road with my husband. He'll run off deer when he sees them, but never chases them beyond what he considers our property line. The little white dog has a leg problem so has to be carried in a dog pack for most of the walk. Now that my heel keeps me home, he stays with me.

I'll be in Tucson Monday, seeing a doctor at the Orthopedic Institute about my heel spurs.

[The Stranger]

43. I think that is how species go extinct -- one kills a person, so people eradicate the species.

Seems to have worked in the past.

:sarcasm:

[Indenturedebtor]

44. Mt Lemmon is pretty tall. Snow up there all winter pretty much

The bears probably do hibernate up there in the winter.

I haven't heard of any Mt. Lion attacks as long as I've been here. I did see a very small lion of some sort outside of my apartment a couple of years ago in a fairly heavily populated part of the city, but I don't think that it was a mt. Lion. It was about the size of a Lab.

Shame about the one they killed in Phoenix. Down here in Tucson the big danger is Havalenas. Wild boar with nasty tusks that roam in packs and attack when startled. When the water supply gets short in the mountains they come down into the city to drink. I know a few people who have lost their dogs to them, and someone gets killed pretty much every year. Nasty buggers.

[Thirtieschild]

45. We have javelinas too.

Someone who grew up here - this was her father's ranch - told us that javelinas kill people, but we weren't sure we believed her. Stupid of us since she knows this country far better than those of us who came here from cities (in our case Atlanta). They show up in packs and we heard they'd go after dogs; also heard that they're half-blind. Until this happened, I'd mostly worried about coyotes getting our little white dog. The first warning we heard was that owls would take housecats and small dogs.

[Indenturedebtor]

50. Yeah lots of dog killers out here

My vet tells me a new story every time I visit. My dog is only about 13 lbs so she's full of warning stories about the predators.

[havocmom]

54. Was never overly fearful of javelinas until...

Hiking north of Phoenix with a very experienced friend and his sister-in-law. She had recently had a baby and this was her first real walk about since the birth. Short hike so she would be back in time to nurse the baby.

She was not the only new mother in the area. Big extended javelina family took umbrage at our being in their 'hood when they had young.

Javelinas are VERY protective of their babies. Great parents and extended family units. And they work well as a military unit. They understand pack strategy. They had us completely flanked in seconds.

My experienced (military range and old desert rat) friend asked if I was carrying my weapon. Then he instructed me to let his sis-in-law quietly pass me and get between the two of us. She was unarmed and he feared her milky smell (their sense of smell more than makes up for poor vision) might trigger some aggression as we carefully headed out of their area. It was pretty tense. The big males and older females were extremely assertive with us. One wrong move and I fear there would have been trouble.

When I realized how dangerous my very experienced hiking partner thought the situation was, I gained a whole new respect for the local wild pigs! They really were a well drilled military unit and we really were at their mercy for about a half mile.

[Thirtieschild]

58. I'm going to copy your message and send it to my husband.

He's convinced that stories of dangerous javelinas are rural myths. We had them around the house fairly often until he shot over their heads with a shotgun, scattered them. He's sorry, wants them back. I don't. The dogs often go crazy barking at the windows but we almost never see what they're seeing. Once I saw few deer taking berries off a juniper tree and that's about it.

[havocmom]

60. NEVER underestimate the javelina! They are very smart and talented

My sis once called me to come over and identify some scat in her well fenced garden. She had a feeling it was not from a deer (she is not good off the pavement ;)) but figured the deer were the only critters around who could clear the fence to get into that space.

Javelina scat! How the hell they cleared a four and a half foot wall is beyond me, but they got in and did not get out with the same ease (not enough space to get a good running start? :shrug:) tore the gate up from the inside. Little piggy tracks led to the fence from the outside. Not a lot of good veggies left on the inside. x(.

I do not like the smell of them, but otherwise enjoy watching them, IF they are not traveling with real young offspring or too many burly males. When they are relaxed and feel safe, they aren't bad company. We were just in trouble on that hike cuz we got to close to their 'home base' right after babies were born. They really aren't overly aggressive, but they can be if one provokes them. Dogs might tend to provoke and if they have dealt with coyotes, they prolly figure dogs are just coyote's retarded cousin. :)

Ask your husband if he thinks wild boars are rural myths? The javelina is laid back cousin from the Southwest, not as big, but just as determined. Have him ask the U or the extension office if anybody has a javelina skull he could look at. No man eating tiger or lion, but pretty impressive set of teeth on very powerful jaws. And they can move faster than one would imagine!

They are smart enough to not pick a fight and if there is a group near you, they may well eventually consider you as part of their neighbors. But lots of respect and caution is in order.

[havocmom]

52. Bears in Montana don't hibernate if they have food sources available

Edited to add: a fact that surprised the experts at a griz rescue preserve.

Sadly, there are plenty of fools on Mt Lemmon who make for easy pickin for the bears there.

My sis lives off Anklam in Tucson. She has seen a lion walk right past her home and across the street into high density housing. Saw it carrying a small poodle back from one foraging trip. Her dogs are BIG and in a fenced yard, but she does not let them out alone. One is a Karelian bear dog but they get escorts when outside. Too many sightings of that dog munching lion!

I lived on Country Club, half a block from the Racket Club at the river. Many mornings I saw lion tracks in the mud where they back washed the pools there. You may be surprised how close wild life can be!