UPDATE on FISA: Glenn Greenwald with latest on Senate Cloture Vote....

[KoKo]

Disappointing.

------

UPDATE IV: Greg Sargent reports on Obama's latest FISA comments from today and his explanation as to how he can support a bill with telecom amnesty when he previously vowed to filibuster any such bill. Obama explained, in essence, that he won't jeopardize our National Security in order to hold telecoms accountable under the rule of law ("My view on FISA has always been that the issue of the phone companies per se is not one that override the security interests of the American people"). Apparently, we can't be safe unless we immunize telecoms. Dick Cheney couldn't have said it any better himself.

Obama's comments today will undoubtedly please the likes of this typical anonymous "senior Democratic lawmaker" -- quoted in a Wall St. Journal article documenting Obama's drift to the Right -- who is too cowardly to attach his name to his comments (h/t Matt Stoller):

"I applaud it," a senior Democratic lawmaker said. "By standing up to MoveOn.org and the ACLU, he's showing, I think, maybe the first example of demonstrating his ability to move to the center. He's got to make the center comfortable with him. He can't win if the center isn't comfortable."

That's the sickly mentality dominating the Democratic Party: Democrats must stand up not to George Bush, the Iraq War and rampant lawlessness, but rather, to the ACLU. That's exactly why they are currently in the process of trampling upon core civil liberties and the rule of law. That's how you stand up to the ACLU and show how Tough and Centrist you are.

UPDATE V: The first vote on the FISA bill -- a vote for cloture to proceed to debate on the bill -- just passed 80-15. A NO vote was a vote to block the bill. The 15 Senators voting to block the bill: Biden (D-DE) - Boxer (D-CA) - Brown (D-OH) - Cantwell (D-WA) - Dodd (D-CT) - Durbin (D-IL) - Feingold (D-WI) - Harkin (D-IA) - Kerry (D-MA) - Lautenberg (D-NJ) - Leahy (D-VT) - Menendez (D-NJ) - Sanders (I-VT) - Schumer (D-NY) - Wyden (D-OR). Clinton, Obama, Kennedy, Byrd and McCain were all missing. It's likely that a few who voted YES will nonetheless vote against ultimate passage of the bill, but only a few (Reid and Specter, for instance, both intend to vote NO on final passage). And it's still possible that they won't get things done before the July 4 recess, but more likely that they will.

UPDATE VI: Here is Obama explaining -- or, rather, trying to explain -- how his prior vow (back in January) to filibuster any bills with telecom amnesty can be reconciled with his support now for a bill containing telecom amnesty:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPljokDWERg&eurl=http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/25/dodd/index.html



Everyone can decide for themselves if that makes any sense at all.

-- Glenn Greenwald
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/25/dodd/index.html

[readmoreoften]

1. Just like in 2005 when the Dems were "keepin their powder dry"

because, like everyone said--WOULD YOU PLEASE JUST LET THEM GET ELECTED!!! GOSH DARN IT!!!! DEMOCRATS FIGHTING DEMOCRATS YOU PEOPLE ARE THE PROBLEM!!111!!!!

And then they were elected. And what do we learn? All that dry powder turned out to be the heroin they're trafficking with their Republican buddies. (That's a metaphor. I hope.)

If you're not smart enough to sell "I'm trying to stop government corruption and I don't want the government listening in on your heartfelt conversations with your hospitalized children" to the average American then you're either corrupt yourself or you're a pretty fucking bad at explaining the obvious.

[appal_jack]

2. K&R

K&R, both for the important OP, and for your concise (and unfortunately accurate) summation of our problems readmoreoften.

:mad:
:argh:
:grr:
:scared:

-app

[readmoreoften]

6. It's not rocket science.

How long do we have to repeat the same mistakes before "this is stupid" kicks in? This isn't about we need a *not totally as bad as Bush/McCain* candidate. We need a real change. The government not collecting massive amounts of data on every citizen is about as basic as it gets.

[Jakes Progress]

11. This reminds me of the moment

when Kerry stepped to the podium at the convention to accept the nomination. He did that silly little soldier thing "And I'm reporting for duty".

I knew then that we would lose. Every time we try to play the "We're good soldiers too" routine and try to run on "terrism" we lose. This was not a time for Obama to duck. This was a chance he blew to really wow the American public. He could have stood up, with a hundred cameras on him, and lashed the republicans for playing fear politics. Either he just doesn't have the stuff, or he doesn't get it, or he has decided that "common" Americans aren't sophisticated enough to understand. If there is another reason, he had better get it out quick, and it had better be better than the pap he as already tried to sell.

I'm disgusted with the party right now.

[readmoreoften]

12. Here's my breakdown: Follow the logic

SCHEME 1: The Dumb Ass Strategy

Election Year 0

R------ : 55
D------ : 45

Election Year 4

R------ : 51
D(r)--- : 49

Election Year 8

R------ : 45
D(R)----: 55

Election Year 12

R------ : 49
D(R!)-- : 51

Election Year 16

R------ : 55
R(d)--- : 45

(rinse repeat)

OR

SCHEME 2: THE REAL WAY

1
R----- :55
D----- :45

4
R----- :55
D----- :45

8
R---- :51
D---- :49

12
R---- :51
D---- :49

Bullshit Tipping Point. Republicans are blamed.

16
R---- :35
D---- :65

20

R---- :40
D---- :60

24

R---- :40
D---- :60


WHICH WAY HAS MORE WINNING Ds AND LESS WINNING Rs??????!!!!!

If we'd only be a party that really stood for something, then when Republicans ran shit into the ground after 12 or 16 years, people would be ready to try a new way and they'd wouldn't even look back for a long time. The right wing has thoroughly manipulated that there is this THING that "THE VOTER" wants. The voter is told what it wants. And then we are told the voter wanted it. The voter wants to be left along and to be able to afford a decent life. It takes a whole lot of terrorizing to change that. People would get sick to death of it.

If there were two sides, yes, the pendulum would swing. If there is one side, the pendulum stays.

[dana_b]

8. you are so right

and I hate that damn excuse that I've seen here. "The most important thing is to get a Dem in office first". Yeah, we see that does a lot of good. So they can forget about these issues later?

[CrispyQ]

19. Yep.

Like Pelosi's "drain the swamp" statement.

[Papa Boule]

3. Unfortunately the day America wakes up and realizes they must vote them all out

will also be the day they realize they no longer have the power to.

[readmoreoften]

7. Well, IMHO, that day is long gone.

Voting anyone out is not possible in our 2 party system. It's like voting for whiter shades of pale. The revolution will not be electoralized, if you'll forgive the pun.

[tom_paine]

20. Bingo. n/t

[dailykoff]

4. Memo to Obama campaign: this is not a Sistah Souljah moment.

This is a Mein Kampf moment.

[hlthe2b]

5. In a word....

FUCK! (or any of Carlin's 7 words, I guess)

[dana_b]

9. personally I like

motherfucker or as Colbert said.... "dad".

[saracat]

10. This sucks. Really. But Thank You to the 15.

[OneBlueSky]

13. I watched Obama's explanation . . . it makes no sense at all . . . n/t

.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. If he votes for this he will make it very hard for me to vote for him

and that is what they count on

But those who cannot defend the Constitution are a problem and at this point I don't care what party

He is even making me sorry for giving him the small donation I did... no more

[readmoreoften]

16. No, if you don't vote him now, you'll get another one in 4 years.

Let's get him in and see how he does. There will be no room left for apology then. If he doesn't get in then the next Democrat will be even further to the right with some nods to change and so forth. Let's get him in and let him reveal what he's made of, for better or worse.

But I'll tell you what: this is the very last time I cast a Dem vote for prez if something doesn't change. I was a lifelong democrat. Now I'm absolutely done short of a major leftward transformation of the party.

[Catherina]

15. Sadly recommended n/t

[PurgedVoter]

17. K&R but disgusted

Now we know what Obama looks like when he is prevaricating. I am pretty sure someone got to him. I don't think he believes in this FISA bill. I am pretty sure the conversation that explained to him why he was going to support the FISA bill gave him more reason to personally dislike the FISA bill. Watch him, he is not happy with this.

[CrispyQ]

18. Obama lost my husband's vote & barely holds onto mine.

Tell me, Senator, exactly what change do you stand for?

[RFKJrNews]

21. It's not just Obama's flip-flop on this that troubles me

...it's this part of the story:

<<<"Clinton, Obama, Kennedy, Byrd and McCain were all missing.">>>

Okay, safe to say we all know why Sen. Kennedy couldn't make the vote. Who knows why Byrd missed it, but the two senators currently seeking the presidency (and one who was seeking the presidency until a couple weeks ago) were MISSING?

Where the hell is LEADERSHIP when we need it most?

These candidates propose to be LEADERS?

What am I missing?

[rhett o rick]

22. Seems to me that all this consternation is for nothing. Some act like we still have a fighting

chance. Bless them and I mean it. We don't live in a democracy. There I have said it. We don't. We are allowed some minor freedoms for the time being but when the Democrats go along with everything this fuhrer has asked, then how stupid are we to think we have some kind of chance.

Wake me up when the revolution starts.

[rhett o rick]

23. Who here wants to shove "we don't have enough votes so we must go along with the president"

down Harry's throat?