***Thread #2 Official Hearing on Detainee Interrogation thread: Addington & Yoo on CSpan 3***

[Fredda Weinberg]

Continued from

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3523256&mesg_id=3523256

[Subdivisions]

1. Thanks! Hold tight for Pt 2!

[MiniMe]

2. K&R Don't forget to rec

Thanks

[annabanana]

3. (also streaming from CSpan 3)

http://www.c-span.org/

click on "VIDEO/SUDIO" and select CSpan 3

that is, when idiot boy is done and the committee reconvenes. .

[Fredda Weinberg]

7. Better now? n/t

[annabanana]

9. lol! great. .I looked back and was about to apologize for reading it wrong

[Fredda Weinberg]

14. I appreciate the guidance ... and the company. n/t

[noise]

4. Their refusal to stand behind the program

suggests they know the unitary executive, article II defenses are BS.

[annabanana]

6. Of course they do. If there had been a sentient Congress before '06

it would NEVER have gotten to this point

[noise]

20. Were they asked about

the effectiveness of torture as an interrogation method? We know it's illegal but torture advocates claim the ends justify the means. Yet if one looks at torture the ends seem to be the attainment of false confessions.

The recent article on CIA interrogator Deuce Martinez ( he interrogated Abu Zubaydah, al-Nashiri, bin al-Shibh and KSM) is quite revealing:

The very fact that Mr. Martinez, a career narcotics analyst who did not speak the terrorists’ native languages and had no interrogation experience, would end up as a crucial player captures the ad-hoc nature of the program. Officials acknowledge that it was cobbled together under enormous pressure in 2002 by an agency nearly devoid of expertise in detention and interrogation.

In its scramble, the agency made the momentous decision to use harsh methods the United States had long condemned. With little research or reflection, it borrowed its techniques from an American military training program modeled on the torture repertories of the Soviet Union and other cold-war adversaries, a lineage that would come to haunt the agency.

Senior Federal Bureau of Investigation officials thought such methods unnecessary and unwise. Their agents got Abu Zubaydah talking without the use of force, and he revealed the central role of Mr. Mohammed in the 9/11 plot.

Link

[MiniMe]

8. Yoo seems to be a little concerned about future prosecution

Addington just doesn't give a crap.

[annabanana]

10. Addington still doesn't think he has anything to worry about.

I would LOVE to see that smug piece of shit sweat.

[Subdivisions]

12. I'm sure he's got it coming yet today. I hope, I hope =) n/t

[Mist]

13. Addington's pic belongs in the dictionary next to the word "smug." nt

[bdamomma]

15. very smug indeed.

that is why Cheney has him.

[malaise]

16. They are both worried

that's why they won't say yes or no.

[Mist]

11. Woo seems to be putting his trust in the Justice Dept. to keep his ass out of

a sling. BUT, being Rethugs, they may hang him out to dry. They'll paint him as an admin. "bad apple."

[MiniMe]

17. He better not rely too much on that, the DOJ will change in January

[Ichingcarpenter]

5. Pictures of the torture.

US ‘torture’ memo declassified
April 3, 2008 by babs22

A declassified 2003 memo has been released by the US justice department. It approves the use of harsh interrogation methods on al-Qaeda and Taliban suspects held abroad.

Subsequently overruled, the memo said that as president, George W. Bush’s authority superseded international ban on torture.

“Our previous opinions make clear that customary international law is not federal law and that the president is free to override it at his discretion”, said the memo, written by John Yoo, who was then deputy assistant attorney general for the US Office of Legal Counsel.

The memo also gave a justification for any interrogator who could be charged with breaking US or international laws : “Finally, even if the criminal prohibitions outlined above applied, and an interrogation method might violate those prohibitions, necessity or self-defence could provide justifications for any criminal liability.”

Mr Yoo’s memo also included past legal defences of other interrogation methods, not considered torture : sleep deprivation, hooding detainees and “frog crouching”, which forces the prisoners to crouch while standing on the tips of their toes.

The memo said that the “definition of torture must be read as a sum of these component parts”.

In december 2003, nine months after Mr Yoo sent the memo to the Pentagon’s top lawyer, William J. Haynes, it was rescinded.



Green light to torture prisoners

A Pentagon spokesman, Commander JD Gordon, said “our policy is to treat detainees humanely and that has always been the case.” And the Pentagon marked its difference from US intelligence bodies, as it has specifically prohibited its interrogators from using certain harsh methods, such as the one called waterboarding.

It’s a legal action, launched by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), concerning the treatment of prisoners in US custody abroad, that provoked, as a response, the release of the document.

The year 2003 marked a period where the US have faced widespread criticism over a series of prisoner abuse scandals at Abu Ghraib prison (photo), and at the Guantanamo Bay detention centre.

Amrit Singh, a ACLU lawyer, said that “Senior officials at the justice department gave the Pentagon the green light to torture prisoners.” According to her, the 2003 memo, and a similar 2002 opinion for the CIA, proves that the Bush administration was wrong when they pretended that abuses like those taking place in Abu Ghraib.

“These memos just go to show that it was the policies of the Bush administration that was driving this abuse”, she added.

The memo has also been condemned by Democratic party politicians. Joseph Biden, a Democratic senator, said that “This memo created the lawless atmosphere that led directly to the abuse of detainees at Abu Ghraib. Those who wrote it and those who approved it should be held accountable.”

[shraby]

21. So should the guys standing around in this pic.

[Supersedeas]

24. just a lawyer that argued for a legal opinion--not responsible for implementation here

or so they say

[robinlynne]

143. where have I heard that before?

[annabanana]

18. I am not going to sit through Hadley BS...

I'll be back when I get a little nosh..

[bdamomma]

19. damn, these thugs do not care and blatantly breaking laws

right in front of faces, they do not care.

they have been getting away with it so long, they will continue to breaking laws until somebody or alot of somebodies stop them.

I will be back too.

[MiniMe]

22. Are the rethugs even at the hearing?

The only one I have heard so far is King.

[seafan]

23. David Addington: “We’re going to push and push and push until some larger force makes us stop.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3102427&mesg_id=3102681">link






John Yoo



Today, June 26, 2008, David Addington and John Yoo are currently under questioning by House Judiciary in a hearing on Detainee Interrogation. Until a short recess a few minutes ago, it was being covered on C-SPAN 3.

[Supersedeas]

25. apparently moral integrity and an oath to uphold the laws of the land was not a substantial force

in the minds of these creeps

[laststeamtrain]

26. Conyers: Could the President order a suspect buried alive? (What a country.)

Conyers: Could the President order a suspect buried alive?

Yoo: Uh, Mr. Chairman, I don't think I've ever given advice that the President could order someone buried alive. . .

Conyers: I didn't ask you if you ever gave him advice. I asked if you thought the President could order a suspect buried alive.

Yoo: Well Chairman, my view right now is that I don't think a President . . . no American President would ever have to order that or feel it necessary to order that.

Conyers: I think we understand the games that are being played.
*

What a country. This is actually a serious question.

AND YOU CAN'T GET A STRAIGHT ANSWER!!!

[Subdivisions]

27. Here we go...n/t

[Fredda Weinberg]

28. TY! n/t

[malaise]

29. Congress won't get anything from these people until someone is taken out in handcuffs

for lying.

[Ichingcarpenter]

30. I agree nothing will happen until congress uses the Sergeant in Arms

and the capital police.

[Ichingcarpenter]

33. Attorney Client privilege is not valid in Congress-Nadler says

Classified information can be used

[Fredda Weinberg]

31. Good lecture by Nadler to Yoo on asserting privilege. Now we might

get somewhere.

[Solly Mack]

32. lololol DOJ won't let me....lolololololol

I know what he was doing during the break

[Habibi]

34. He's certainly concerned with following legalities *now*, ain't he?

[Subdivisions]

35. Yoo: Torture is illegal. n/t

[seafan]

40. Yoo just screwed up, big time. Mukasey never would admit to that.

[MiniMe]

44. Disagree, Mukasey admitted that torture is illegal

What he wouldn't agree to is if waterboarding is torture or not.

[seafan]

47. Thank you for that clarification. n/t

[Solly Mack]

36. My "current" view...lolololololol

[Subdivisions]

38. You caught that =) ..

[Solly Mack]

37. Tsk tsk...Yoo...it's called customary law sweet cheeks

[EFerrari]

39. Scott is great. No fooling around with him. n/t

[Solly Mack]

41. ROFLMAO "to define torture so people wouldn't commit torture" (when they were torturing)

[Subdivisions]

42. Shroeder sets up the International case. n/t

[Subdivisions]

43. Yoo now does not know definition of torture. Getting better by the minute. n/t

[Solly Mack]

45. I just wrote the memo...I didn't torture...and I didn't give the order

I just came up with legal cover for torture...leave me alone!!!

[Ichingcarpenter]

46. No exceptions to the international treaty no matter what the memo says

Scott did a good job but I don't see where the end game is.

[malaise]

49. Mel Watt up now.

decides to ignore the 'obfuscaters' and question the Professor

sp

[Subdivisions]

48. Mel Watt: I'll talk to Shroeder to avoid banging my head against a wall. n/t

[Ichingcarpenter]

50. Rep. Watt is sort of rambling now and on policy and legal advice.

[Solly Mack]

51. Oh shit...please don't lump me in with those two...lolololol

[Subdivisions]

52. Shroeder: Reasonable response would be impeachment in lieu of other recourse. n/t

[Fredda Weinberg]

53. Ah ... impeachment ... Shroeder got that right n/t

[Fredda Weinberg]

56. And disbarment for Yoo and Addington ... Shroeder's got that right too n/t

[Ichingcarpenter]

57. Well, we know where that table is

Someone might lose their law license...... whoopy do

[Fredda Weinberg]

62. I know ... the law is frustrating. But these are officials and tradition protects

them. Popular will has always been damned. Try to remember this doctrine protects Democratic employees as well.

[pberq]

54. Mel Watt just brought up impeachment as the only remedy

[Solly Mack]

55. he ponders...he scores!

[MiniMe]

58. LOL Schroeder talking about hearing before the bar assoc and disbarment.

They are trying to make them sweat.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

59. have the republicans bugged out?

[MiniMe]

60. I don't know if anybody besides King was there.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

63. i thought i saw lundgren there earlier

[Subdivisions]

61. Who's the spook filling Yoo's ear and what gives him the right

to obstruct this hearing?

[MiniMe]

64. I think that's Yoo's attorney

[EFerrari]

66. I'd assume he's Yoo's lawyer. n/t

[Subdivisions]

65. If they're not guilty of anything, why all the sidebars? n/t

[Fredda Weinberg]

67. Only Yoo needs help ... he doesn't know what he can or can't do.

It's sad, because Conyers has tried to shake him ... he should try again ... the stance is legally bogus.

[Kool Kitty]

74. Yoo is an arrogant asshole.

This congressman is right-he's just trying to eat up the clock. I'd like 5 minutes alone in a room with Yoo and a baseball bat. Then let him define torture for me. What is he whining about?

[MiniMe]

68. Because the Justice Department has basically gagged him

And told him not to say anything. I'm sure that there is more that they said to him than was in the memo that Nadler had. Its ridiculous.

[Fredda Weinberg]

72. He is a dull tool. But we need to demonstrate this publicly n/t

[Solly Mack]

69. I'm going to water-board you with compassion and for democracy...so it's OK.

[Solly Mack]

70. LOLOL Yoo's whining

[MiniMe]

71. LOL, they called Yoo out on playing beat the clock

Too funny.

[Solly Mack]

73. It's not fair! Leave me alone!

[Mist]

Addington: The VP doesn't belong to the exec. branch, tho' he IS "attached by the

Constitution" to the exec. branch. huh?

[Subdivisions]

75. The VP's office belongs to neither the Executive

nor Legislative Branch, but is "attached" to the Legislative Branch - Addington. n/t

[Kool Kitty]

77. He's right, in this case.

THIS particular VP is a shit-stain on the underpants of humanity.

[Solly Mack]

76. LMAO Barnacle Dick Cheney

[laststeamtrain]

79. He's kind of like a barnacle; or maybe a cyst...n/t

[Kool Kitty]

83. "As you know, in modern times....."

Addington the condescending piece of shit. "Is that a moral question, or legal question..." Since he has no morals, perhaps he should stick to legal.

[Solly Mack]

87. Yep....that "in modern times"

he fairly crinkled his nose

[Mist]

78. Nadler up now, questioning Addington. nt

[EFerrari]

80. Addington said he was more involved with CIA program than the military program.

[Solly Mack]

81. Addington's a hoot

[Mist]

82. Addington: the VP's staff merely offers advice to the VP, as the VP does

to the Pres. That's all the VP's office does." Who believes this of Darth?

[Solly Mack]

84. It's legal to rob banks. My lawyer says so....so go out and rob some banks.

[Mist]

85. Woo claims the Justice Dept. is keeping him from saying who rec'd the

memo. That's a bit of a stretch.

[Subdivisions]

86. Something just occured to me. Could the administration

throw these two under the bus and claim they were given bad advice by their counsel?

[Fredda Weinberg]

90. Shroeder addressed that. Higher up, no, and even military lawyers should

have used best judgment. It does relieve anyone who wouldn't be reasonably expected to understand the advice.

[Solly Mack]

88. ut oh...he's getting into his recollections

[Subdivisions]

91. More brain damage...n/t

[Ichingcarpenter]

89. Gotta go for a while... keep up the good work on the thread. n/t

[bdamomma]

92. kick

[Solly Mack]

93. suddenly...a lightbulb comes on over his head and Praise JAYSUS! He remembers

something...meaningless

[EFerrari]

94. Addington just suggested filmig during Gitmo interregations,

did he not? He said he could see through a one way window or via a video screen or maybe both.

[bdamomma]

95. Ellison is up talking to Addington

Addington is sly arrogant thing, who couldn't give a shit.

[Subdivisions]

96. King: Torture = Aggressive Interrogation Techniques n/t

[spanone]

97. don't you love how they call it 'aggressive interrogation'

both of these assholes addington and yoo should be in the deepest darkest jail cells the world has

[bdamomma]

99. so sad that we are even talking about this subject.

these thugs must be thrown out they don't care they think they are above the law.

[spanone]

102. it shows how far down the rabbit hole we have fallen....

[Solly Mack]

98. King ...the drone turd of Shit Mountain

[spanone]

100. what a crock of shit...is there a level between the army manual and the law

yea, it's called bu$hco

addington says yes....

[Solly Mack]

103. A big old crock of shit

[Solly Mack]

101. King: There's always room for torture Addington: Watch them wiggle, see them jiggle, as they drown

[spanone]

104. THERE'S YOUR CRIME they AUTHORIZED torture for the field.....the bu$h* administration

[spanone]

105. addington is cheney's lawyer and one arrogant motherfucker

[bdamomma]

108. I guess when you have all that power they can be very arrogant

everyone in the Bush Administration is.

[EFerrari]

111. He's a sociopath. Just in this hearing, he's admitted being

involved with the CIA program and that there was filming during interrogation. He has no sense that anything he's done is a war crime.

[Justpat]

112. The sob is clearly deeply insulted at having to be subjected to questioning.

Arthur Davis is asking them why they didn't come to congress to get an OK for their torture spree.
I like this guy.

And Yoo and Addington and two arrogant bastards.

[bdamomma]

106. I like Davis

he is very aggressive

[spanone]

109. he's also very calm and deliberate

[Justpat]

114. He was great. n/t

[pberq]

107. Rep. Davis up

Why didn't they come to Congress?

[bdamomma]

110. Cheney has no love for the Congress.

he has always wanted extreme unitary executive privilege

[spanone]

113. addington says congress was briefed on bu$h* torture program???? oh really?

[Mist]

116. What a whopper, unless a tiny number of Rethugs were secretly briefed. I suppose

that's a possibility.

[spanone]

117. they couldn't just inform the rethugs....

[bdamomma]

123. wasn't the House informed about this program.

to the point of people like Pelosi and Hoyer are CYA.

[EFerrari]

115. In fairness, this is one of the few hearings I've watched where

there is little or no faux outrage over facts Congress already has in hand. It's sort of refreshing.

[pberq]

118. Rep. Delahunt up

the U.S. is a signatory to the Convention against Torture - correct

What constitutes torture

Waterboarding? Yoo equivicating

[Subdivisions]

119. Delahunt: I formally invite witnesses to a "more expansive"

conversation regarding these very important matters.

The House Subcommittee on Foreign Affairs and Oversight

[spanone]

120. yoo, i'd have to know what you mean by waterboarding?...he's a lawyer

[Mist]

121. Is Yoo seriously claiming he doesn't know what water-boarding is??! nt

[Solly Mack]

122. Bother... water-boarding will mean different things to different people

Pathetic...

[Mist]

124. Delahunt now questioning Addington re: waterboarding. Addington is

unrolling a huge detailed waffle answer.

[Justpat]

125. God help me,...

but I'd like to see these two waterboarded so that they could clarify their position on it.

[Solly Mack]

126. The terrorists might be watching! oh...noes....

[bdamomma]

129. unbelieveable.

[Solly Mack]

132. It truly is

[Justpat]

127. I've only been here twenty minutes and I can't take anymore. n/t

[spanone]

131. these guys are slicker than owl shit

[Solly Mack]

128. there he goes again...pretending customary law doesn't exist

[Mist]

130. Yoo claims that waterboarding is defined differently by different countries, so gee,

how could the admin, and Yoo, know whether they were violating anything??

[spanone]

133. he's dancing all around the truth

so according to yoo waterboarding our soldiers is alright

[Mist]

137. Nadler sums up : there have been a number of unanswered questions, due to

claims of classified info.

[Solly Mack]

134. "In my view NOW"

[bdamomma]

135. Waterboarding Yoo and Addington would be interesting.

[Mist]

141. Sounds like the Committee will be meeting again, and questioning Yoo and

Addington further (plus possibly questioning some of those mentioned by Yoo and Addington?)

[spanone]

136. did he just say he wouldn't come back????

i would personally love to slap the living shit out of addington

[Solly Mack]

140. Only if you bring me along to help :)

[Solly Mack]

138. Addington saying he won't come back...

[bdamomma]

139. oh Addington is POS and very sure of himself isn't he?

these guys are just playing this committee, just disrespect being conveyed.

[Duer 157099]

142. Is it still on? n/t