What would happen if this FISA bill doesn't pass?

[ColbertWatcher]

Would there be no law allowing for spying?

I believe this will be the GOP's whine come the fall: "Wah, wah, wah! The Democrats (sic) won't let us spy!"

Can anyone help me out here? What is going to happen if they don't pass this bill?

[EFerrari]

1. It will pass. But yes, the Republicans AND some Democrats

will claim, falsely, that it impedes the President's power to protect us from terrorists.

[old guy]

2. Nothing

It will revert back to the original law which requires warrants. All the rest is hype.

[ColbertWatcher]

7. This is what I'm thinking, but...

...didn't the GOP-run DoJ claim they "lost" intelligence the last time they didn't pass this?

[colt equalizer]

3. It will pass with 90% votes for it, IMHO. NT

[ColbertWatcher]

8. That's not the question here. n/t

[babylonsister]

4. It's on hold right now...

Housing bill, FISA delayed until after July recess
By Manu Raju and J. Taylor Rushing
Posted: 06/26/08 12:28 PM


The Senate hit impasses over legislation aimed at helping struggling homeowners and a rewrite of spying laws, forcing Democratic leaders to push back consideration of those measures until next month.

Leaders had hoped to finish both measures this week, in addition to an emergency war-spending bill and a Medicare bill, before lawmakers return home by week's end. Both bills have wide support, but in each case, individual senators have refused to let the measures speed through the chamber. As a result, they were forced to lower the bar for this week's action.

Democrats also threatened to keep the Senate in session through the weekend if Republicans didn’t agree to move quickly with the Medicare bill.

Objections by Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.) will push back an overhaul of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) until after lawmakers return in July, Democratic leaders said Thursday. Feingold is strongly opposed to language that would likely give telephone companies that participated in warrantless surveillance retroactive immunity from lawsuits.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/housing-bill-fisa-delayed-until-after-july-recess-2008-06-26.html

[spanone]

5. then we could proceed with prosecuting the telecoms for selling our privacy

[Hydra]

6. FISA works fine

The FISA court won't support Bush's spying on everyone, though, so he doesn't like it.

Likely result of it not passing? Bush will continue anyway, and thumb his nose at Congress.

Given the 80-15 split and Obama's "reluctant" support, though, it will pass easily.

[EFerrari]

9. Yes, FISA does work fine. But the narrative is that it doesn't

and even some Democrats -- from Feinstein to Obama -- keep repeating it.

[Hydra]

10. Ya

I tried REALLY hard to be enthusiastic about the GE, but Obama and the majority of Congressional Dems are spoiling it for me by lying about the importance of spying on us.

Spying on us without a warrant IS F***ING ILLEGAL FOR FOR GOOD REASON! Do NOT tamper with that!

[truedelphi]

11. Let me know when you run for office, Hydra. You'll have my vote.

Now let's see, based on the lack of conscience of those I would have liked to vote for, maybe the first week of November would be a good week to go away for a while.

[Hydra]

13. I'd love to run for office

But I'd have to buy a shiny coffin and a million-dollar life insurance policy the day before.

I know my input about fairness, rule of law and equal opportunity are not appreciated by most people, but I just can't keep my mouth shut. :evilgrin:

[EFerrari]

15. It seems to me that there is some kind of effort on right now

to alienate the left from Obama. Just in the last few days, FISA, the death penalty, no on the Fairness Doctrine, and maybe one more issue I don't remember right now.

It seems like the differences are deliberately being promoted. I'm voting for Obama even if he grows horns but, I wonder in whose interest it would be to do something like that? :shrug:

[ColbertWatcher]

16. Barr.

The GOP are hoping young people will see Libertarianism as the alternative to Obama.

[EFerrari]

20. Maybe. I hadn't thought about that angle. n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

22. I put nothing past the GOP. n/t

[EFerrari]

23. They will do anything to peel votes aways from Obama because

then the election is a lot easier to steal. lol

[ColbertWatcher]

28. 2000 was about revenge...

...for Clinton taking Pappy Bush's throne.

2004 was about keeping GOP corporations swimming in cash.

2008 may be about covering up all the crimes.

[Hydra]

17. I'm sorry to do this

But my outrage is getting the better of me.

How is Obama representing us? He took DAYS to issue a comment about this, and even with his finger in the wind, he STILL got it DEAD WRONG.

No leadership, no strong message, no defense of the rule of law.

Why is he doing what Bush wants??? He could score HUGE points by calling Bush out about this and every other illegal thing he's done.

I want to understand...but all the evidence tells me that there will be no change. Obama has promised to keep the status quo...or even make things worse.

Tell me I'm wrong. I WANT to be wrong. People are dying every minute from these policies. I WAT TO BELIEVE I'M WRONG.

The cynic in me, or As Carlin said, "The Disappointed Idealist" in me doesn't think I am, though.

[AndyA]

18. Change is just a promise made to get elected.

There will be no real change, and the events of this past week certainly indicate it will be business as usual in Washington, regardless of who's in the White House. :(

[EFerrari]

21. That's probably true to a certain extent, yes.

But there seems to be some kind of "Look what a right winger Obama really is" media effort on in the last couple of days. :shrug:

[ColbertWatcher]

27. People were saying that about Nancy Pelosi just two days ago.

While her reputation is not completely restored, I'm wondering if the FISA bill wasn't deliberately passed in the House so that the Senate could kill it.

Or, at the very least, get both candidates feelings on the bill on the record.

McCain has made no statement about this bill, or if he agrees with yet another Bush policy, or how his vote is influenced by lobbyists.

Obama, on the other hand, has threatened to use the "new" rules this FISA bill would create to pursue criminal prosecution against the telecoms for their involvement.

John Warner asserted that the telecoms offered their technology voluntarily to help the GOP spy on innocent Americans.

This just shows the GOP is lost and has no idea how to deal with this new wrinkle.

[EFerrari]

19. Imho, there's two different things going on.

One, the Obama people are trying to pick their media fights with what seems to me an excess of caution. He's being expected to show leadership by people like you and me but he doesn't really have access to the apparatus of leadership yet and, that's a hard spot to be in.

Two, there seem to be influences (inside the party?) that want to detach the left from him and that's what I was asking about because I don't know who or why. I don't know if it's just lowering expectations or an effort by the party establishment to bring him more under their control or ? I honestly don't understand yet what is going on.

But I brought it up because there has been a batch of news items that are dead ringers to disappoint the left and I don't think that's a coincidence. :shrug:

/oops

[Hydra]

24. Well, when you put it that way

It would seem Obama is taking our votes for granted. After all, who else would we vote for?

From that standpoint, he is trying to pull in the undecided RWers...except that there AREN'T any. That camp is either firmly McCain or staying home because he's "too liberal."

No matter how upset I get, I'm still not staying home and I'm still not voting McCain or 3rd party.

We can call it now- we're screwed.

[EFerrari]

25. I'm with you. And look, here's yet another "look what a winger he is" item:

http://nacla.org/node/4777

Btw, I disagree with Obama on a lot of things but, I'm just trying to figure out what looks like an attack on the left flank of his base.

[ColbertWatcher]

26. There is a saying in motorcycle racing...

...in order to finish first, you must first finish.

Right now, nothing has happened regarding the FISA bill.

I am watching Stabenow right now talk about GOP fillibusters.

No compromise has happened; don't allow them to distract you from supporting our candidate with their lies and declarations for purity.

The GOP are known for their lies and distortions, you know this.

Just let this play itself out.

[Hydra]

29. Keep hoping

With 80-15 and Obama saying he has no problem other than the immunity provision, it's not looking good.

------------
Edit

Regarding the "needing to win first"- He's already won with the people. His battle should be with the election fraud crew...and instead he fights us.

Besides, I seem to recall a lot of screams from people when HRC took that tact. Is that all right now?

[ColbertWatcher]

30. You are quoting the GOP-controlled media version of what he said...

...Obama said if the FISA bill passed, as president he would use it to prosecute the telecoms.

[Hydra]

31. BS

“It is not all that I would want. But given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives – and the liberty – of the American people.”

FISA does all of this as it stand. Better yet, his "monitor the program" would not be in play. The FISA court would be monitoring HIM.

Either Obama is stupid(Absolutely not), or he thinks he's going to play King George the 2nd with us.

[ColbertWatcher]

32. Link please. n/t

[Hydra]

33. Have at it!

http://utdocuments.blogspot.com/2008/06/statement-of-barack-obama-supporting.html

-----------
Edit

Tried to get it off of obama.senate.gov, but he hasn't had it put up yet, I guess.

[ColbertWatcher]

34. I looked for it too...

...maybe the problem here is that I implied a quote, when I only meant he hinted at criminal prosecution?

My mistake for which I apologize.

[Hydra]

35. Not a problem

The quote I posted seemed to suggest that when he said "When I am President"- in fact, I was pretty sure that's what you were referring to.

Trying to find that press release, though, I got more than my fill of "realists" talking about how great this was that Obama was flipping us off and rejoining the "adults" in the room.

:puke:

[ColbertWatcher]

36. Oh geez...

...the GOP will work to muddy this entire thing up if it isn't already.

Apparently, few Americans know the GOP is spying on them, nor do they care.

Sad.

[Hydra]

37. I think it's clear to people who have half a brain

But the notion of "What do I care? I have nothing to hide! I'm not a terrorist!" seems to be rampant.

I guess I'm weird, though. I read the reports that say that the FBI finds this quite useful to track normal criminals bothers me..because the real criminals are NOT being arrested!!!

I guess I'm also weird because the notion of some voyeur watching me from a satellite feed or reading my internet postings doesn't make me feel safer- it makes me feel like they are wasting my tax dollars and staring down my pants!

[ColbertWatcher]

39. That's not the biggest problem...

...the biggest problem is that the GOP define the sentencing first.

The GOP defines how they can arrest, detain and hold who they call criminals.

Then, they change the laws to make more things criminal.

They're doing it here in California with that damn three-strikes law.

People thought it would stop the murderers, but it has been used to jail non-violent, repeat offenders.

[Hydra]

40. :D

You're expanding into other subjects. I was trying to keep it just on the spying issue to keep it brief, but of course you are right.

Why do we need to spy on people if we can arrest them without charge?

Why do they blame the non-enforcement of the law on not having enough/not pervasive enough laws?

Why is it that the less rights we have, the more crime occurs?

Me and my damn logic, again :evilgrin:

[ColbertWatcher]

42. I was talking more about their behavior...

...when it comes to the justice system as a whole.

I've seen them pull their shit on three-strikes, I don't expect better with spying.

In three-strikes they said anyone who gets arrested three times, stays in jail for x number of years. That huge net "inadvertently" criminalized homelessness, but I am sure they wouldn't mind expanding that inadvertentness.

With spying it starts with 'we're only spying on terrorists', it will can easily slip down that slippery slope to 'we will spy on any criminal' which easily becomes 'we spy on who we call criminals'.

BTW, this can also be seen as removing the judge and jury from the court and replacing him with mandatory minimums.

[Hydra]

43. You make a good point

But the "slippery slope" has already occurred.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071111-ex-att-employee-nsa-snooping-internet-traffic-too.html

I picture entire rooms at the NSA with people kicking back, eating Cheeto's and watching us on 100 different screens.

[ColbertWatcher]

44. Self-delete n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

45. Oh great, there goes my lunch!

Well, that's why we need to win in November, so we can stop the bleeding and hold the criminals accountable.

[Hydra]

46. When Obama, Pelosi and Reid support the program???

This is why I'm outraged. The terrorism card doesn't work on me. This is a bunch of voyeurs watching us 24/7.

You don't see Bush volunteering to have his bedroom filmed. If they offer to be under the same program and have their videos shown on a network like CSPAN, I'll shut up about this.

[ColbertWatcher]

49. I don't think any of them "support the program"...

...this is politics.

They are only 3 votes out of 535.

I'd like to know why the GOP-controlled media are letting Admiral McCombover slide.

He has yet to weigh in on this subject.

[Hydra]

50. You mean McSame hasn't talked about how critical it is to let the telecoms off the hook?

Color me honestly surprised! Mr. "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran!" hasn't spearheaded the campaign to burn our constitution yet???

[ColbertWatcher]

51. The GOP-controlled media has made this about Obama's vote...

...not the Senator from Arizona.

[Nite Owl]

12. That's what I thought

the original FISA is still in effect. I heard some dem last night saying the oppposite, maybe it was Feinstein.
Thank goodness we have Feingold fighting for this.

[Breeze54]

14. We'd still have our 4th Amendment and * would have to use the FISA CT the right way with warrants?

:shrug:

[truedelphi]

38. Yep that is the long and the painful short of it

Is there no way to get through to Obama?

[EFerrari]

41. Is he in any position to really influence this at all?

I bet the House and Senate collaborators would love our attention to go there when in reality, he's just one vote and even if they're calling him the "de facto leader", he's still just a guy running for office without the benefit of the machinery the House and Senate leadership do have.

[truedelphi]

47. Yeah I am still sending him a donation BUT

I have decided to vent my anger by adding in a Pot Holder (Remember your great idea of a month ago??)

[EFerrari]

48. LOL

:rofl: