The Constitution is an ideal. This country has never lived that ideal.

[cali]

It never will. Sometimes the Constitution triumphs. Sometimes it's overwhelmed by cultural tides or financial interests. There's nothing remotely new about this state of affairs. It's highly debatable that the Constitution is more imperiled now than at any time during our past.

Just the way it's historically played out.

[annabanana]

1. Well, striving for it assures us that the Citizenry will never

lack for "something to do".

[H2O Man]

2. Sure it has.

Not always, and never fully. But we have had numerous times when both individuals and institutions have stepped up and lived those ideals.

Of course, I understand this is different than what you were saying. I think that we are both right.

[johnlal]

3. No no.

The constitution is the document by which the people give power to government. It is a contract. It is not an ideal. It is a genuine expression of what we expect from our government.

Call up your mortgage company and tell them that your promissory note is an ideal, and that sometimes cultural tides and financial interests overwhelm your obligation to pay your mortgage payment. I'm going to bet that the mortgage company will forcefully exercise their rights. We are a society that functions on trillions of little pieces of paper-- telling us what we can do-- and what we can't do. We know how to comply with contracts, agreements, deeds, statutes, and even sweepstakes rules and regulations. We also know how to hold other people responsible for their contracts. We should do no less to the government.

[OneGrassRoot]

4. Now THAT makes a lot of sense. Practical, logical....thank you. n/t

[cali]

5. sorry, it's still an ideal.

and we the people aren't really the arbiters of what is and isn't constitutional. That would be those 9 black robed figures in that imposing building. It's all very well to view the Constitution as a contract that we the people can enforce, but in the real world, it's not that simple.

[johnlal]

6. That's a sad and pathetic view of our nation

When you decide that authority to govern doesn't really derive from the people to be governed, you have attacked the entire basis of our nation. Independence Day is coming up. I would suggest that we all contemplate what the patriots were fighting for, and ask ourselves if it was worth it all.

[OneGrassRoot]

9. I've stayed out of this for months and months and months.....

but it's rather pathetic the positions people will take to make excuses for those they support. Including the position of undermining our own Constitution. The politicians and corporations do a good enough job of that, WE don't need to add to it now by saying it's an ideal. If we can't at least hold those we elect - or intend to vote for - to the fire to uphold the Constitution (that IS part of the oath, isn't it?), then it's all just a big joke.

[Xenotime]

7. The constitution is a dead document that needs to be revised.

There needs to be a document where more equality is established.

[TechBear_Seattle]

8. By and large, the US has at least tried to live that ideal

Unfortunately, we are in one of the periods where quite the opposite is the rule, even among the relatively progressive branch of the Two Party. That doesn't mean the pendulum will never swing back the other way.

[johnlal]

10. I would also point out...

That if you looked at countries with a Constitutional government, and countries where the rulers look to no authority but their own, you will see many real-world differences, and you will know that our Constitution is not just a bunch of lofty ideals.

[OneGrassRoot]

11. From someone who lived through Hitler's regime.....

"I think the US is far from becoming a Fascist state. Too many safeguards. You can start worrying when the the constitution isn't respected or viewed as necessary, when government declares the constitution invalid as well as the Bill of Rights, and backs it up with armed force and arrests all dissenters and protesters and puts them away for good. The raison etat could be anything. Then you really know the jig is up when the gov't dssolves Congress and declares rule by edict. By now the supreme court judges will be irons in one of the camps. If the masses revolt in great enough numbers, maybe the Union can be saved. But what if the mettle of the masses is insufficient, or, there are not enough charismatic leaders? (Decline of Rome)"


I was curious as to this gentleman's perspective about the current social and political climate. When I asked, "How precarious is our current situation, post Patriot Act?" this was his response. This was last week, prior to this discussion thread. I thought it was fitting for this discussion.

[madokie]

12. I disagree with this

Next game

[Bill McBlueState]

13. It's not really an ideal

There are certain ideals reflected in the Constitution. But we shouldn't hold it up as some kind of inspired text. Much of what's in it came about from compromise rather than devotion to some high principle -- the Electoral College, for instance.