WAs the LA counterculture a covert op?

[Hannah Bell]

Inside The LC: The Strange but Mostly True Story of Laurel Canyon and the Birth of the Hippie Generation

Part I
May 8, 2008

It is the first week of August, 1964, and U.S. warships under the command of U.S. Navy Admiral George Stephen Morrison have allegedly come under attack while patrolling Vietnam’s Tonkin Gulf. This event, subsequently dubbed the ‘Tonkin Gulf Incident,’ will result in the immediate passing by the U.S. Congress of the obviously pre-drafted Tonkin Gulf Resolution, which will, in turn, quickly lead to America’s deep immersion into the bloody Vietnam quagmire...

Meanwhile, elsewhere in the world in those early months of 1965, a new ‘scene’ is just beginning to take shape in the city of Los Angeles. In a geographically and socially isolated community known as Laurel Canyon – a heavily wooded, rustic, serene, yet vaguely ominous slice of LA nestled in the hills that separate the Los Angeles basin from the San Fernando Valley – musicians, singers and songwriters suddenly begin to gather as though summoned there by some unseen Pied Piper. Within months, the ‘hippie/flower child’ movement will be given birth there, along with the new style of music that will provide the soundtrack for the tumultuous second half of the 1960s.

An uncanny number of rock music superstars will emerge from Laurel Canyon beginning in the mid-1960s and carrying through the decade of the 1970s....One of the earliest on the Laurel Canyon/Sunset Strip scene is Jim Morrison... he is the son, as it turns out, of the aforementioned Admiral George Stephen Morrison.


http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr93.html


I don't buy the guy's thesis whole-heartedly, but the web of connections is interesting, & there were certainly *elements* of the intelligence community involved in the 60s scene.

I'm interested in hearing what people who might have been there have to say. WAS there a music scene in LA before '65?

[whatchamacallit]

1. So... we ARE the man???

:spray:

[Posteritatis]

52. J'accuse! You da man! (nt)

[ben_meyers]

2. WAS there a music scene in LA before '65?

You're just kidding, right? Please say you are just kidding.

[Hannah Bell]

3. serious question. the author asks why all these folks converged on LA

in the early 60s when there was no established scene there (like there was in Nashville or NY).

I want to know if it's true.

[ben_meyers]

5. Well if the author is basing his premise on that question

I would disregard the rest of his article.

[Hannah Bell]

6. if you have info on the question why don't you share it?

[ben_meyers]

15. How about this

LA was and is the home to many major and minor record labels, agents,studios, producers etc. Entertainers have graduated to "Hollywood" for many generations.

Look up the history of Capital Records/EMI. Why did they go to LA? That's where the industry is.

Sometimes the simple answer is the correct one.

[Hannah Bell]

16. No need to be snide, that's exactly the kind of info I was looking for.

Capitol was founded in the mid-40's, so the writer is incorrect that there was no la music industry.

"Capitol was the first West Coast label, competing with RCA-Victor, Columbia and Decca, all based in New York. In addition to its Los Angeles recording studio Capitol had a second studio in New York City, and on occasion sent mobile recording equipment to New Orleans, Louisiana and other cities."

It was easy to cross-check the writer's assertions on the military connections, but knowing nothing about the la music scene i was looking for a cross-check on that assertion. thanks.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

4. LOMFL.

I always thought Morrison was CIA.

[H2O Man]

25. Him and David Peel. n/t

[Hannah Bell]

26. photo: morrison & his father on the uss bon homme.

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr96.html

[H2O Man]

27. Photo: Jim & Dad tour France!

I've long suspected that Jim's faking his death in France was part of a complex CIA "black op," and that he is presently using the nom de plume "Bob Novak." Is there any other logical way to explain the Plame scandal?

[Hannah Bell]

29. i never knew his dad was the tonkin gulf commander.

you are obviously more au courant.

[H2O Man]

41. I think that

most young people were aware of that in the late 1960s. There were hints of tension between Jim Morrison and his parental units in the Doors' song "The End." It was not uncommon for the younger generation to reject the world-views of their parents in the '60s, and there was a closely related rejection of the authority figures in Washington, DC. This included young people protesting the Vietnam war. The Doors' song "The Unknown Soldier" was the first anti-war song by a major rock band, and not coincidentally, it could apply to the Bush-Cheney war of occupation in Iraq today.

Journalists in the late '60s questioned Morrison about his family, and he made efforts to disassociate himself from them. Again, this was not uncommon in that era. It's just that Jim Morrison was in the public eye, while most people with identical family issues were not.

By the late 1970s, numerous writers had focused attention on the unhappy relationship between Jim and his father. It is safe to say that artists such as Jim Morrison were not the product of a happy family of origin. The unresolved issues from his childhood fueled his poetry; the wonderful album that his band put out after his death ("An American Prayer") is, in fact, his autobiography: it starts with his birth, early childhood experiences (including witnessing the car accident), school, college, being a rock & roll star, the Florida experience, and being aware of his approaching death.

Since his death, there have been numerous silly rumors and theories. Some fools figured out that the deaths of Morrison, Joplin, and Hendrix were part of The Plot. Surely the shadowy "They" killed these three -- couldn't have been drugs. Luckily, there were sane voices like Grace Slick, who is on the record talking about Jim's inability to turn down any substance offered him while on tour. However, the theory that Jim was actually part of The Plot takes the cake.

[Hannah Bell]

43. i think "the plot" is too strong for what the writer's saying.

the "covert op" is my heading, purposeful to get readers. I wanted info on the la music scene before the rock era.

the writer himself never goes further than "look at these weird connections".

I was a teenager in the late 60s, in the hinterlands. I knew morrison was from a military family, but not that his dad was the tonkin gulf commander. most of the kids i knew knew about as much as me. i knew nothing of the backgrounds of the other folks in the piece (which i cross-checked). maybe hard-core music fans did, but most folks weren't exactly that hard-core, i think.

there was plenty of intelligence activity going on in those years, so i thought the background was interesting & wanted feedback.

[coalition_unwilling]

67. Didn't Bob Dylan's "Masters of War" come out long before

The Doors' "Unknown Soldier"?

[H2O Man]

70. Right.

And there were other non-rock and roll anti-war songs, as well.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

28. Once I saw a picture of Jim Morrison planning a naval attack on Vietnam

with his Dad, but I can't remember where I saw it. :*
I don't doubt David Peel was the one who snapped it.

[Hannah Bell]

30. funny. but bono's still a hypocrite tax cheat.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

31. Every one a them hippie rock stars is a bunch of stanky secret agent near-doo-wills!

All you dirty tax-cheap rock star bum beatnik hippie
addick stinkos, GET OFFEN MY LAWN!

[Hannah Bell]

32. less funny. trying too hard. bono: still a hypocrite.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

33. Come on, theyre all rotten to the core. Say it, youll feel better.

Let it out. Youre among friends. :)

[Bandit]

40. I would bet very few here know of David Peel and the Lower East Side.

I've got some papers....

[H2O Man]

50. Your comment

got me thinking about how long it's been since I talked with David. Just e-mailed him, and heard back. You've got me thinking maybe some younger DUers should have an opportunity to learn more about him. (Hmmmm! That gives me a couple of ideas!)

[MadHound]

7. Hard for Laurel Canyon to be the birthplace of the hippie movement

When the modern day hippies had already been going strong for a few years already, especially in places like San Francisco and elsewhere.

Sounds more like Laurel Canyon was more of an enclave for those who were rebelling from their parents and were artistically talented.

[Hannah Bell]

13. can you add some detail? i don't remember hearing about

any sf hippie scene until the mid-60s. maybe it was there, but i don't remember any national awareness. if you have personal knowledge, i'd be interested in learning.

[timtom]

17. I believe Ken Kesey and the gang

were based out of the Bay around 1963 and 1964.

Also, the folk/protest song movement was in full swing by 1965 (East Coast/West Coast).

It was an explosion and it was happening across America.

And don't forget the Beatles' and Stones' influence at that time.

[Hannah Bell]

18. re the folk music & venice beat scene, i knew that, but not quite the same thing.

it's the writer's thesis that the "hippie" aspect (free love/drugs) defused the political content of those earlier social phenomenon.

[timtom]

36. Does the writer know what was going on

with the Merry Pranksters on their magic bus vis-a-vis drugs? I believe the pranksters to have anti-political in 1963. (But I don't remember and haven't taken the time to validate this.)

[Hannah Bell]

42. i don't know. he doesn't mention them. i read kesey's "acid tests"

were 65-66, & he bought the bus in '64.

[timtom]

46. Let's end this debate now.

I read the article cited in the OP (just found the time) and am about to read the subsequent parts.

The connections are just too statistically profound to be coincidence!

I was out there starting in October 1966. I believe the author is on to something.

[Hannah Bell]

48. i wasn't debating, sorry if it came off that way. you mentioned kesey, so i looked it up & passed

on what i learned.

if you're being sarcastic, there's no need. i said in the op i didn't buy the thesis whole-heartedly, & after learning capitol records was in LA since the 40s, even less, but i do think there's some interesting info in the piece that checks out.

I always check stuff out. That's why I posted this.

[timtom]

51. No, I was debating

albeit in a kind and gentle way. I have a brand of humor that is better viewed in person (and still manages to confuse some or maybe just falls flat).

No, I was merely adding some info, but the thesis of Dave, the author, is really not disputable. He's connected more dots than I could shake a stick at. As I indicated, the connections are nothing short of astounding.

And nowhere was I being sarcastic (though I am quite capable, if the situation warrants it).

Au contraire, Hannah Bell, Thank you very much for this eye-opening series. Having experienced much of it from Berkeley, it is all the more meaningful.

[Hannah Bell]

53. please share, if there's some experience in particular.

[G_j]

8. It was a beautiful spot, even Zappa had a place there

http://www.laurelcanyonthebook.com/?cat=46

Archive for the 'The Zappa Log Cabin' Category

Uncle Frank’s Cabin
Monday, June 5th, 2006
I dropped by 2401 Laurel Canyon Boulevard yesterday. It’s the site of the legendary log cabin where Frank Zappa presided over a bizarre rock and roll salon for a few frantic months in the spring and summer of 1968.

The cabin’s tenants, guests and hangers-on included the GTOs groupie clique; the blues titan John Mayall (who wrote the song “2401? about the place), Mick Jagger, Marianne Faithful, Jeff Beck, Rod Stewart, Jimi Hendrix and other Sixties luminaries, plus various and sundry members and roadies associated with the Mothers of Invention, Zappa’s band. The original Alice Cooper band was signed to Zappa’s Straight Records at the cabin following what was purported to have been a 7 a.m. audition.

As Frank’s widow, Gail Zappa, told me:

“The place was huge and vaultlike and cavernous. It was so dark. I think the oldest eucaluptus tree in Southern California overshadowed the whole property. There was no floor in the kitchen, just this sort of platform in one corner that had the stove sitting on it. It was infested constantly with bus groups of rock and roll bands looking for a place to crash—they would just show up at all hours of the day and night…There were no locks on any of the doors. It was insanity.”

[Hannah Bell]

10. Well, here's the writer on zappa:

"Ensconced in an abode dubbed the ‘Log Cabin’ – which sat right in the heart of Laurel Canyon, at the crossroads of Laurel Canyon Boulevard and Lookout Mountain Avenue – Zappa will play host to virtually every musician who passes through the canyon in the mid- to late-1960s.

Given that Zappa was, by numerous accounts, a rigidly authoritarian control-freak and a supporter of U.S. military actions in Southeast Asia, it is perhaps not surprising that he would not feel a kinship with the youth movement that he helped nurture. And it is probably safe to say that Frank’s dad also had little regard for the youth culture of the 1960s, given that Francis Zappa was, in case you were wondering, a chemical warfare specialist assigned to – where else? – the Edgewood Arsenal. Edgewood is, of course, the longtime home of America’s chemical warfare program, as well as a facility frequently cited as being deeply enmeshed in MK-ULTRA operations... The family later moved to Lancaster, California, near Edwards Air Force Base, where Francis Zappa continued to busy himself with doing classified work for the military/intelligence complex...

Zappa’s manager, by the way, is a shadowy character by the name of Herb Cohen... Cohen, a former U.S. Marine, had spent a few years traveling the world before his arrival on the Laurel Canyon scene. Those travels, curiously, had taken him to the Congo in 1961, at the very time that leftist Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba was being tortured and killed by our very own CIA. Not to worry though; according to one of Zappa’s biographers, Cohen wasn’t in the Congo on some kind of nefarious intelligence mission. No, he was there, believe it or not, to supply arms to Lumumba “in defiance of the CIA.”...

Making up the other half of Laurel Canyon’s First Family is Frank’s wife, Gail Zappa, known formerly as Adelaide Sloatman. Gail hails from a long line of career Naval officers, including her father, who spent his life working on classified nuclear weapons research for the U.S. Navy. Gail herself had once worked as a secretary for the Office of Naval Research and Development (she also once told an interviewer that she had “heard voices all life”). Many years before their nearly simultaneous arrival in Laurel Canyon, Gail had attended a Naval kindergarten with “Mr. Mojo Risin’” himself, Jim Morrison (it is claimed that, as children, Gail once hit Jim over the head with a hammer). The very same Jim Morrison had later attended the same Alexandria, Virginia high school as two other future Laurel Canyon luminaries – John Phillips and Cass Elliott."

[Zomby Woof]

58. jesus christ on a rancid cracker

Zappa was most assuredly against the Vietnam war. It's all there in the lyrics and liner notes. It's there in first person interviews and sources. I suppose any ignorant shithole with a half-assed psychotic agenda can post just about any disgusting pigshit on the web, though. The source of your tripe is irresponsible, mentally ill, and ignorant to the point of a black hole's mass. To spread this kind of vile and pernicious libel is no better, especially under the disingenuous guise of "discussion" or "understanding".

Just about everything you lifted from that site is dangerously dumb, unsupportable by evidence, and overarchingly, unbearably insipid. Just like all tinfoil horseshit.

To whomever contrived this tripe, may his shit come to life, and kiss him.

[Hannah Bell]

60. The only part I "lifted" (pasted) was the bit on morrison's dad (which checks out)

& zappa's family (which i was able to partially check out; his dad did work at Edgewood, etc.).

I asked when I posted whether there was a substantial music scene in LA before 65, & immediately learned Capitol Records was there in the 40s, contra the writer's claim about there being "no music industry," & musicians coming for no apparent reason. I posted that information. It pretty much destroys the thesis.

Sorry you think it's dangerous. I have a different opinion. Mine is that you should post one of zappa's anti-war lyrics. It's a more telling critique than what you wrote.

[alfredo]

I remember when Alice Cooper came back from finishing his first

break out recording for Zappa. He was transformed under Zappa's tutelage. He hit the stage to the first bars of "I'm Eighteen" and the rest is history.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

9. Bono was prowling Laurel Canyon in the early 1960s, I believe, if I recall rumors correctly.

He was quite young but very possibly involved in this.

[Hannah Bell]

11. i believe you're pulling my leg.

[MadHound]

12. Bono is forty eight years old

He was barely off his mother's teat, and living in Dublin. Please, get a grip on reality:eyes:

[Hannah Bell]

14. he's mocking me. because i questioned bono's charitable

endeavors & linked to his tax cheating.

[EFerrari]

54. He couldn't have prowled only slid

because he was still just soup at the time.

lol

[A-Schwarzenegger]

63. Bono was born in 1960, leaving a lot of time to get into trouble

before 1965. He could had slipped out of Ireland to avoid his
taxes or been snuck in by associates. Let's not precipitously rule
anybody out of this rock in roll scheme.

[EFerrari]

65. Associates like his parents?!

LOL

I don't give anyone under ten a break, myself. Being short and cute is a perfect cover when you think about it. :)

[A-Schwarzenegger]

71. Exactly. Children are the perfect spies.

Who would suspect a tax-cheating 5-year-old of starting
a CIA-backed counterculture movement?

[mitchtv]

57. Sonny Bono Maybe

[Vickers]

62. Har!

:rofl:

[Generic Other]

19. What about the influence of the Beat poets on these folks?

Jack Kerouac was Morrison's idol. The San Francisco beatnik poets emerged in the postwar period of the 50s. Ginsburg's HOWL. The coming of age of the 60s musicians in the Cold War era. Struggling with society's insistence on conformity vs their own desire for free expression. The poets inspired the younger generation of rock musicians. They were about resisting conformity, questioning the status quo, and the more poetic thoughtful rock musicians began to write music more significant than the DOO WOP harmonies of the 50s and 60s because of the influence of this older group.

Military kids largely rejecting the mission of the fathers. That much seems obvious. A return to romanticism in a doomed generation. Flowers, peace, drugs as a way to reject membership in an evil military-industrial complex. It all makes perfect sense.

[readmoreoften]

20. Well, even Abbie Hoffman got pissed off when Timothy Leary informed on the Weather Underground

Leary was a Harvard Prof during the exact time the CIA was doing all those LSD experiments at Harvard during MK Ultra. His ex-wife reported that he was once sprung from jail by a CIA agent and told her "it's okay, he's liberal CIA."

I think Leary was trying to think of himself as "blowback" but often got reabsorbed by the system and used. And he did rat out the Weather Underground after they hid him from the law. That's super shitty.

I don't think the whole thing was contrived but I do think there was some internal management going on.

[Wiley50]

22. I met Leary once. Invited him to lunch and, to my surprise, he showed up

I was a member of the Carnival Cafe restaurant Collective in Boulder in 1976 and 1977.
?grAjwZIBp.RYmnLB

Can't remember exactly when during that time., Leary came to give a talk at CU. It was before he hooked up to tour with Liddy. I caught that show a couple of years later in Tulsa.

But, in Boulder, I went to the lecture and took on of the Carnival Cafe menus with me

?grAjwZIB5087VuXa

Approached him when he left the stage and handed him the menu and invited him for breakfast
He said, "How about lunch"?

So he actually showed up and spent about three hours with about a half dozen of us.

He was a truly beautiful man, inside and out. Disarmingly so.

I can't think about the nasty rumors after having met him.

[readmoreoften]

23. That's the scary thing about people.

Good people can do bad things when they can't let go of bad ideas--or when they betray their principles even momentarily for personal interest.

I'm not sure about Leary. He certainly had friends in the CIA just from having to get the LSD from Sandoz in the 50s. I'm sure they don't let go once you're on the inside.

[Greyhound]

21. Doubt it, but this thread is fascinating, thanks.

One of the very few regrets I have is that my 'hippie' parents didn't move to CA when they wanted to. We kept going back for 1 - 2 month "vacations" but they never actually moved there. If they had...
:kick: & R

[HousePainter]

24. History of LA music scene

There was a thriving scene from the early 60's before the hippies in Laurel Canyon


Troubadour opened in 1957, Dylan played there in 1964
<http://www.troubadour.com/history.php>

Whiskey a go go opened in 1964
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisky_a_Go_Go>

Ciro's opened in the 40's was renovated in 1964
<http://archives.waiting-forthe-sun.net/Pages/Venues/ciros.html>

For a general overview
<http://subrealities.waiting-forthe-sun.net/Pages/PhantasticLA/sunsetstrip_memories.html>

[noise]

34. It's an interesting series

That said, IMO McGowan is trying too hard to fit the data to his theory. Channeling youth angst into entertainment is clever marketing (one might even say it could work today) which requires no military conspiracy.

[Hannah Bell]

35. i agree. the background info is interesting, though. i didn't

know most of it, & it seems to check out.

[Echo In Light]

37. Looks like some conspiracy threads are more dungeon-bound than others. Hmm...wonder why?

[arcadian]

38. Weren't the acid tests a CIA sponsored program?

n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

44. Like, no, they were not

The Acid tests keep getting a mention, let me point out that Kesey went to jail for growing pot, after having been on the run for some time. The driver of his bus was of course Neal Cassidy, known in Kerouac's works as Dean Moriarity. The beat people evolved into Pranksters and Hippies, many people were part of both. Ginsburg. Dylan.
There was no instant springing up of a movement out of nothing, it was an ongoing and changing scene.
There was a huge music scene in LA for ages before the hippy times, LA is the entertainment center of the world. It was a scene when it was a Beat scene, and a hipster scene and it was a huge music center on Sunset, on Central, going back to Swing times. Zoot Suits and all. My father was in the hep music scene back then. Wild stories, all about Hollywood, music, boo, the works...

Hot, wild and edgy music scene in Los Angeles going back to before WW2, for many rather obvious reasons. Recording studios, record companies, acess to players, press agents. The premise that there was no scene prior to Laurel Canyon hippies is just not correct, not at all. The 50's rockers all came to LA too, and most of the country types as well. Music business central.

Once you deal with that flaw in the premise, it is hard to take any of the rest seriously. Considering Duke Ellington and Elvis both would have seen LA as one of the centers of their respective 'scenes' it is hard to pretend that it was new when Morrison et showed up.

[arcadian]

39. Stewart Copeland of The Police, his father was high level CIA agent.

Interesting, I remember growing up listening to the Police and the explanation was that Stewart's father was in the State Dept, an often times used cover.

[csziggy]

45. There were connections between US contractors and the counterculture

What the Dormouse Said: How the Sixties Counterculture Shaped the Personal Computer Industry, is a 2005 non-fiction book by John Markoff that talks about the introduction of LSD to the West Coast and its connection to the eventual development of the personal computer. Excellent book with a different viewpoint than most books about that era.

[Hannah Bell]

49. what's the point of view?

[csziggy]

55. He was a journalist writing from a history of the technological developments

Rather than from a look at the counterculture. Basically "Dormouse" is a history of the early ideas that lead to the development of the personal computer. But along the way, the writer realized that it was the freedom seekers of the counterculture that lead to those ideas and that gave the early developers the different approach to the concepts. Remember, when IBM was first approached with the idea of a personal computer, the suits could not imagine what individuals could do with a computer and turned down the concept. It took off the wall thinkers like the Homebrew Computer Club to make that leap. (http://www.bambi.net/bob/homebrew.html)

And those Homebrew guys were allowed into the inner sanctums of some of the government computer labs by scientists who were part of the counterculture.

It is an excellent read - I wish I could give more specifics but I gave the book to my computer obsessed nephew who is in journalism school and who wants to be a tech writer. I thought it was perfect for him.

[Hannah Bell]

61. Thanks, interesting.

[Enrique]

47. omg!

Bruce Dern's uncle was in Skull and Bones! :tinfoilhat:

but seriously, this series is fascinating and i'm bookmarking it. Thank you for posting it.

[fputtz]

56. With a CIA like this, who NEEDED the KGB?

[BrotherBuzz]

59. The author missed the location by a couple of hundred miles

Druids heights, next door to Muir Woods, Mill Valley, in Marin county is the proper epicenter. It was all planned there to the minute detail. Initially it was designed to counter what was happening nearby at Bohemian Grove and their bombastic encampments, but it sort of snowballed into something much bigger and better.

[BigDaddy44]

64. The Doors were CIA?

hmm.... "cmon baby light my fire".....wait. I get it now. Thats code for something. It was a signal to start some sort of covert action somewhere.

[jakem]

66. all very interesting, though i remain more suspicious of Bohemian Grove...

[MinM]

68. NPR: California Dreamin

If it was a Covert Op -- It Worked -- as this series from NPR's Day to Day demonstrates:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/daydreaming/2008/06/the_future_began_yesterday.html

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92034265

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

69. And the American Bundt were behind the beatniks, right?

Jee-sus.