My two problems with Obama and FISA

[John Q. Citizen]

#1 I think his switching and supporting FISA is harming his chances to win

#2 It's wrong, it's a bad bill, it weakens the 4th amendment and it weakens the rule of law.

Please hear me out on this.

I support Obama and have ever since a week after Kucinich dropped out of the race. I have invested over 200 volunteer hours minimum, lots of related expenses such as gas, and have donated money to his campaign.

If I thought his switching and supporting FISA would help him win, then I might not like it, but at least I could see and understand the utility of it. In fact I have heard some people assert just this. But i haven't seen any evidence, and data that in any way suggests that Obama switching and now supporting FISA is anything but harmful to his campaign.

For one thing their is no voter constituency screaming, demanding, asking or working for the passage of the current FISA bill before congress that I know of. Help me out people. Does anyone know of any group of voters working to get the current FISA bill passed? Does anybody have any polling data, focus group data that shows voters are in favor of this bill passing?

I do know for a fact that their is a relatively large group of voters working actively to stop the passage of this FISA bill. I do know, from anecdotal evidence that at least three fourths of the people at my Unite for Change meeting in Missoula yesterday want Obama to reconsider his support for the bill and were willing to sign their names to a petition asking him to reconsider his support for the bill.

Secondly, Obama is leaving himself open to charges that the reason he is now supporting the bill is because of telecom lobbying interests giving congress and people close to the Obama campaign (like Daschle ) fat contributions or pay checks to push for the passage of this bill. I'm not claiming that Obama has switched support to this FISA bill for that reason, but it does open the door to the appearance that it could be a factor. This doesn't help his campaign either.

So from my point of view we have a bad bill that hurts Obama by his decision to switch his support to it. What am i missing?

I am open to any evidence or any data that anyone has that suggests that Obama supporting this FISA bill is in anyway helpful to his campaign. Please provide anything you have. I don't need proof. I just need some data or evidence suggesting it helps Obama. Saying it will help isn't what I mean. I mean do you know of a group of voters/citizens actively supporting this bill? Any polling that suggests people like this bill? Anything?

Even the people who have asserted to me that it will help Obama(without any evidence or data) don't seem to like the bill itself. They look for reasons why it might not be as bad as Fiengold, the ACLU, Biden or Dodd say it is, but they don't have much good to say about it, like, for instance they don't say "I love this bill, if Obama didn't support it I don't see how I could vote for him!"

So what the F?

[readmoreoften]

1. IMy opinion--and this is my opinion--is that Obama is okay with the new bill.

We may have to deal with that. He's changed his position on NAFTA too which also bothers me. All I can say is that it's one of two things: political cowardice or he's center-right on foreign policy and perhaps even on economics. (That's not to say that Clinton wasn't center-right, by the way...)

Either way it's bad news. But it's not surprising news for me.

Unfortunately I'm kind of at that place where nothing would surprise me.

[Jazzgirl]

2. I posted in another thread that I thought Obama

moved to the center right after his meeting with Clinton. I postulated the reason he moved to the center was a deal to adopt a lot of the DLC's platform as a condition of Hillary's support. I don't know that but I think it is interesting that he didn't change his positions until after that. At least there wasn't any indication he was going to change prior to that meeting.

[Saturday]

7. ROTFLMAO nt

[mix]

3. well put

What I do not understand about Obama and FISA is why judicial oversight is almost non-existent in the bill, how does this make intelligence gathering any better or effective? Our system of checks and balances is being discarded here in the name of "national security" and "grave dangers", in other words Obama is buying into the central (and flawed) premises of the Bush Doctrine.

Distressing.

[slipslidingaway]

4. Nice post looking for concrete evidence K&R n/t

[lame54]

5. his switching is going to hurt him(us)...

the dems still haven't learned that giving the repugs what they want only increases their contempt for them
they are going to use this vote against him as a flip-flopper
the worst part is:
had Obama dropped everything, gone to Washington, and gave a fiery speech on the senate floor admonishing this bill he would have scored political points big time
sometimes doing the right thing can be a political gain

[leftofthedial]

6. Obama is one of them.

He's just nicer and more articulate than most of them.

[BeatleBoot]

8. He is also backtracking on his NAFTA stance from the primaries

http://www.alternet.org/election08/88754/

<snip>

Unfortunately, Obama, who sent so many smart signals on trade issues when he was competing with Hillary Clinton for his party's presidential nomination, appears to now be backtracking toward the insider territory occupied by McCain.

Obama's interview with Fortune magazine -- headlined "Obama: NAFTA Not So Bad After All" -- is the best news the McCain camp has received since Mike Huckabee folded his run for the Republican nomination.

<more>

[Pastiche423]

9. I agree w/you 100%

No surprise there. But what does surprise me, are the apologists that only want a dem to win in November. It seems not to matter what that dem's stances on important issues are.

While I voted for Obama in my state's primary as the lesser of two evils, I am now extremely disappointed at the rightward turn Obama has taken since he became the nomination.

Unless he goes back to his original stance on the FISA bill, NAFTA and the Fairness doctrine, he will receive no donations, no support and quite possibly, lose my vote.

I am beyond tired of the politicians that promise hope and change, only to shit on their base to gain donations, support and votes from the wrong-wing.

IMHO, he is screwing up BIG time.

Recommend.

[John Q. Citizen]

10. I support Obama. I want him to win. That's why I think it's important to let him know when he's

wrong.

[slipslidingaway]

11. kick n/t