Ron Paul's Campaign Manager, 49, Dies Uninsured, Of Pneumonia, Leaving family $400,000 Debt

[tekisui]

What a testament to the Libertarian creed, which abhors the idea of universal health care. This loyal, passionate man who died too young left his family a debt of $400,000 in medical bills. And who knows whether he put off getting treatment for the pneumonia that killed him because he was uninsured.

Kent Snyder did some amazing work on the Ron Paul Campaign and as remembered as a "libertarian giant"- by Lew Rockwell, on libertarian site, Lew Rockwell.com.

The Wall Street journal reports that Kent, more than anyone else, persuaded Ron Paul to run for president. And Kent, according the the WSJ said, "ultimately became a $35 million operation with 250 employees that helped deliver more than one million votes for the Texas congressman's bid in the Republican nominating contest."-

Ron Paul posted this message about Snyder on his website: ""Like so many in our movement, Kent sacrificed much for the cause of liberty, Kent poured every ounce of his being into our fight for freedom. He will always hold a place in my heart and in the hearts of my family."

Sadly, the Libertarian heart apparently does not include health care. The poor guy raised tens of millions of dollars and couldn't afford the $300-$600 a month that COBRA medical insurance would have cost.

link: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Libertarian-Legacy--Ron-Pa-by-Rob-Kall-080705-175.html

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

1. How utterly ironic

.

[EbenezerMcIntosh]

68. Not necessarily

If we lived in a libertarian society, with no corporate and government management of health care, keeping the trillions of dollars we spend overseas at home, no income taxes, free market medical care, etc., would this guy and his family have had the ability to pay these medical bills? I don't know and I guess we will never know.

[baldguy]

74. If we lived in a libertarian society

This tradgedy would be multiplied by 100,000,000.

[redqueen]

84. The only pertinent thing you mentioned was "free market health care".

What is it that you think we have now?

The answer to your question is quite obviously: no.

Read more.

[Javaman]

108. enjoy your stay. it will be short. nt

[DailyGrind51]

110. "Free market" health care coverage means that insurance companies

are free to exclude whomever they wish because of pre-existing conditions, health histories, advanced age, etc. Part of the 47 million uninsured are the "uninsurable", those who were rejected even though they were willing to pay premiums. If I was not part of an employer's group plan, I would not be able to purchase individual health coverage, because I committed the "crime" of having three malignancies over 20m years ago. Ironically, my employer's group carrier was one of three that rejected me for individual coverage!

[EbenezerMcIntosh]

145. Question

Where do medical insurance companies and corporate fascism fit into this idea of a free market of health care? Would not the free market exist between the patient and the health care provider?

And you ignore the economic, foreign and tax policies that I mentioned.

I understand. I have had cancer, too.

[wtmusic]

151. The insurance companies fit in when you can't pay a $400,000 bill.

OK, so the bill is now $100,000 from all that wonderful free-market competition. Do you have $100,000 for radiation/chemo lying around if a tumor pops up?

You might if the oppressive system of American taxation hadn't taken all your hard-earned income, right? That oppressive system that's 10% lower than other G7 countries?

Bah. Coulda woulda shoulda.

[New Dawn]

121. "Free market medical care" just killed this guy!

We're not interested.

[LanternWaste]

132. As there has never been

"I don't know and I guess we will never know."

As there has never been, nor ever will be a dynamic, sustainable, industrial 'Libertarian" society, you're right-- we'll never know.

[lonestarnot]

137. You need to try washing your brain again, this time try Clorox.

:hippie:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

139. You're lying. You think you know.

In your socialist workers paradise libertarian utopia, milk and honey and healthcare flow freely.

(Sorry about that, mixed up the ideological pipe dreams for a second)

[EbenezerMcIntosh]

147. LOL

:hippie:

[flvegan]

2. I feel for Snyder's family and loved ones.

Paul deserves no mileage from this loss.

[johncoby2]

3. Don't cry for him. Ron Paul wouldn't have wanted it.

This is not sad. It is exactly what Libertarians are about. It is a badge of honor for them.

His family is now saddled with the debt, but that is what they wanted and advocated for. And that is what they deserve.

So don't cry for him or his family. It is what they wanted.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nikto]

103. I agree--It's NOT sad, because his family is getting to LIVE THEIR PHILOSOPHY!

"This is not sad. It is exactly what Libertarians are about. It is a badge of honor for them.

His family is now saddled with the debt, but that is what they wanted and advocated for. And that is what they deserve.

So don't cry for him or his family. It is what they wanted."


His family should feel the Pride of living their philosophy fairly.

The Church will help them, if necessary.



It is a stupid and crappy philosophy, but it is THEIRS.
They bought it, they own it.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

130. Yeah, but his philosophy might not be his wife or especially his kids.

Libertarian or not this guy was a person with a family, and our healthcare system killed him.

[crimsonblue]

131. the healthcare system didn't kill him

his own weird philosophies killed him. pneumonia was but the ironic instrument in death's fickle hands.

[anonymous171]

112. Correct. He is testament to the Libertarian way.

[ann_american2004]

123. #79

I'd like to know why my message was deleted. i did not threaten or say anything nasty. I pointed out that what happened to this poor person is obviously proof just how flawed our insurance system is and that I hoped the OP and reply were not being smug in comments, which could be viewed then as cruel. Is it wrong to point out when something is flawed? Is it wrong on this board to see another political POV as worth discussing? or must we see all libertarian views as vile? Is that what it means to be a democrat on DU? What a shocker. I thought we were the bridge. I thought we were humanitarians. So does DU think that insurance is a wonderful thing as it stands now? That it is untouchable? Holy? That lawyers are angels? And the insurance companies are our brothers' keepers? Godly and Goodly and sugar cream puff happy happy? Gah...whatever
Oh yeah - And I fucking hate being censored. it's the pits.

Obama '08 (in case you didnt know, Phffft)
Peace Out
Live Well

[mikelewis]

144. I hate feeling like I have diarrhea... I fucking hate that...

Being censored sucks too, I agree... though not as much as diarrhea.

[quakerboy]

124. For him, no

How do you know that his family advocated for this though?

[ColbertWatcher]

4. Damnit.

I hate to hear something like that.

Where do we send help?

[skooooo]

5. You're kidding right???

:shrug:

[Mojorabbit]

19. Actually

I feel badly for the man's family. No one should be left out in the streets because a spouse was stupid.

[Gold Metal Flake]

23. Both spouses.

Don't tell me the wife was just a helpless passenger in this. Eyes wide open.

[ColbertWatcher]

26. I just don't see how someone can die from pneumonia in this day and age.

I feel sorry for the family.

[CTyankee]

40. I suspect that he had some serious health problem and the pneumonia

was caused by his body just giving out. Of course, if he neglected it and didn't even seek medical help, eventually it could kill you...

[DailyGrind51]

114. The uninsured ignore symptoms rather than seek medical care,

those "symptoms" become major health problems which are even more expensive to treat. Those headaches could be warning of a stroke, brain tumor, or aneurysm. That lump could be an infection or a sign of lymphoma.

[knitter4democracy]

43. It happens all the time.

Hubby fights it in his patients all year long. If you're already sick with something else, it's not hard to lose the battle and drown from within.

[stranger81]

50. my uninsured mother died of pneumonia in 2003, suddenly & unexpectedly.

It definitely happens, even without another complicating illness.

[wtmusic]

51. What amazes me

is that you can run up a $400,000 tab for pneumonia.

Unheard of, two decades ago.

[KharmaTrain]

55. Bills Pile Up Fast...

As someone else noted, pneumonia is generally the result of other phyiscal problems, thus we don't know if that debt was based purely on that illness or a cumulative one.

And yes, hospital care these days can run up lots of money in a hurry...especially if he spent his last days/hours in Intensive care. 5 years ago I had to handle my parents final days...most of the bills went directly to Medicare or the Insurance companies, but I saw enough to see thousands of dollars run up in just the first day.

[wtmusic]

59. 90% of an American's medical expense occurs in their last year of life

Factoid from my GP, who is fed up with the system too.

IMO there is a bias towards this type of billing, as dead people and grieving families are in little position to fight it.

[KharmaTrain]

66. Insurance Actuaries Make Life & Death Decisions

My father was a GP and I assisted him in the billing in his last years of his practice. We constantly battled insurance companies who tried to tell him what his diagnosis meant or to justify treatments they felt were either unwaranted or overpriced...we knew if we didn't contest it the patient would get hit with that bill.

Our system went from preventive under GPs to emergency care and have several generations who rely on hospital waiting rooms and ambutols for their "health care"...the personal touch is gone. In many companies, if you make a claim on the company's policy, it damn well better be a good one. And then you're told who to see and your care is the based the coverage...thus if you pay the minimum, that's what you get. But that's better than the millions who have no coverage at all and only go to ERs in very bad shape...their care costing a lot more had they had the availability of on-going preventative care.

You are very correct on the pressures of grieving families...many are going through sensory overload as a loved one deteriorates and are easy prey to taking whatever they can and then finding out they're stuck with the bill.

Cheers...

[TBF]

117. That's part of the system that is so crazy - I saw it with my emergency c-section bills

We are insured by a major carrier (which costs us $700+/month just in premiums, before co-pays and deductibles). I went through my pregnancy with few complications, but then ended up having an emergency c-section because there were complications during the delivery itself. At the end of the process I looked over all the bills, which came in at over 25K. We paid about $5K total out of pocket in the end (we had to appeal a couple of claims but that was the end result). Our carrier ended up paying about $8K. So, the hospital/doctors wrote off approx. 1/2 the "cost".

So my guess is that the hospitals/doctors price everything as high as they can get away with because they know the insurance companies are only going to pay about 1/2 of any given charge anyway. But if you aren't insured you won't have the insurance companies fighting with them over costs so you get the entire bill with no help. No wonder so many people end up in bankruptcy court. What a crazy system.

[Jackpine Radical]

133. That is pretty much correct.

"the hospitals/doctors price everything as high as they can get away with because they know the insurance companies are only going to pay about 1/2 of any given charge anyway."

However, in my private mental health practice, we often negotiate with clients. In order to avoid problems with insurance companies, we have to make the private-pay people sign statements of financial hardship before we can give them a price break.

[TBF]

140. It's cool that you've found a way around it -

I'm not complaining about the doctors either - my care was fantastic. I also know the enormous debts many doctors are faced with out of medical school. My beef is with the insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies that force these types of games while they try every way possible to deny claims.

[Jackpine Radical]

141. We desperately need single-payer, universal health care here.

As to the libertarian argument about free markets, ain't no such thing. First, the competition among insurers is strictly on cost lines. Second, when you badly need health care, you're in no position to bargain or ask for competitive bids. Third, they've gotten all the laws written in their favor. (For example, insurance cos. are exempt from being sued for the consequences of their decisions to deny claims.)

Three years ago, I was in a rollover accident & got carted off to the ER in an ambulance that was called by the police. My insurer denied payment for the ambulance because the ambulance service wasn't on their provider list. I'm just glad I got taken to an ER that WAS on the list.

[TBF]

142. I agree. The reactionary right has many scare tactics they are using to

dissuade people (my conservative FIL used to send me many emails until I started sending him the snopes corrections...), but I would think a majority of the people are fed up. I haven't talked to anyone lately who is happy with their healthcare. My husband is a lawyer in a private firm and the associates do extensive research and comparisons on which insurers to use because the premiums are so high at the office. It is pretty bad when doctors (like your ambulance situation) and lawyers are having problems and being priced out.

[Virginia Dare]

54. Jim Henson of "Muppets" fame died of pneumonia..

he delayed going to the hospital until it was too late IIRC. I think people very often don't recognize the seiousness of their symptoms. They wanted to put my S.O. in the hospital one time he was in such bad shape with it, and he'd been walking around like that for days. He talked them out of it, and thankfully got better, but he was pretty sick for a while.

[ColbertWatcher]

56. ...I know...

Our health care system sucks, but it seems like such a shame that someone in this day and age would die from pneumonia. I have just always thought of it as one of those diseases people couldn't recover from in the 19th century or in the Third World. Not someone in 21st century America.

It just seems like it's something modern medicine should be able to deal with.

[Stewie]

61. Apparently he was working 15-20 hours a day

Everyone was telling him to take some time off, but he wanted to work. He chose to work himself to death.

[nikto]

105. Gosh, just like Shrub said...

That's uniquely American, ain't it?

[tblue37]

83. My sister almost did at age 34, 20 years ago. She had three young kids and

was very busy dealing with them. She caught "a cold," but like most young mothers, she put her own health on the back burner while taking kids to school, cleanign house, minding the toddler, etc. When she got worse instead of better, she tried to get a doctor appointment, but the doctors' offices are filled up with people who have HMOs who go there for every little sniffle, so they kept putting her off and putting her off.

Finally, after a couple of weeks of msiery she dropped the toddelr off with her MIL and went home to rest. When the MIL called several times to check up on her and my sis didn't answer, the MIL went to see how she was doing. She found her collapsed unconscious on the living room floor. They rushed her to the emergency room and she barely survived.

Then there was me. Several years ago, rather than miss a single class, I taught for two weeks with pneumonia (which I thought was just a nasty cold), masking my symptoms with DayQuil so I could function inc lass and at home grading papers and running my home daycare.

I finally hired a substitute sitter for the ddaycare and took time to see a doctor on a day that I don't teach. On the day of my 4:00 p.m. appointment, I deliberately took no medicine so my symptoms would be there for the doctor to diagnose. By the time I got in to see the doctor, after a 1.5-hour wait in the anteroom, I was so weak I had to be essentially carried in. Then they helped me downstairs for X-rays. Yep. Pneumonia.

In a society where you are expected to work like a machine, just to keep your lousy, poorly-paid job, it is the easiest thing in the world to neglect symptoms and count on relative youth and general good health to protect you from death from things like pneumonia. (Think about muppeteer Jim Henson, who died from streptococcus A pneumonia that started with a simple sore throat.) Young mothers, like my sis was at the time, are also expected to take care of everyone but themselves, and they are pretty isolated: there is often no family or community network to check up on them. Fortunately for my sis, she and her MIL are close, and the MIL lives nearby. Otherwise, my sis would be dead.

[ColbertWatcher]

85. I'm sorry to hear this, but am glad everyone is okay now.

I just wish we had a better health care system.

That's why I said "Damnit."

I really don't care that he was a libertarian who believed that he had no right to health care, I think he did have that right.

I think we all do.

[ThePowerofWill]

113. I almost died due to an insurance mix up.

Due to some records mix up it showed at the Hospital i had no insurance. I was sick as a dog for 2wks with high fever and pneumonia. I would get a quick fever reduction, and a breathing treatment if i was lucky, then out the door.

After doing some wrangling and getting written proof of insurance i was quickly admitted. The way i was treated was like night and day as well. When they thought i had none i was treated poorly, and barely served. After i had proof it was like i was a king, and enough could not be done.

This is what opened my eyes to our health care problem. I could retire right now and live great, but i feel i have to keep working just to keep my insurance.

[SemperEadem]

125. not being treated in time.

dismissing a cough, fever,etc. as a cold and hitting it with TheraFlu instead of going to the doctor and getting a diagnosis will usually do it. Putting it off because you can't afford $165 to even see the doctor--let alone the $$$ for the meds to treat it. It's like "medicine? Rent? Gas? Food? Lights? I'll buy some NyQuil and drink that til I feel better." Unfortunately, bacteria and viruses don't give a shit if you can't afford the medicine.

[ProfessorGAC]

155. It Does Seem Kind Of Young To Die From It

I had it last winter. Yeah, it sucks, it hurts, and it takes quite some time to fully recover, but i'm 100% certain i got nowhere close to dying, and i'm older than this guy was when he died.

So, i agree with you: It seems weird that he died from it.
The Professor

[Renew Deal]

45. I think it's gotten past the point of politics.

Sometimes it doesn't really matter.

[TheCowsCameHome]

6. How sad, how ironic. From the party that touts rugged individualism.

And they wonder why they get nowhere at election time.

[elocs]

7. Libertarians have the YOYO motto: You're On Your Own.

Republicans like that motto, except for when they are the ones needing help.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

8. Republicans will stick their hands out to the gubmint just like anyone else

When they need something.

[TheCowsCameHome]

9. You bet. They want it all, they just don't want to pay for it.

Hypocrites, every freaking one of them.

[elocs]

20. Which is why I said, "except for when they are the ones needing help." n/t

[DBoon]

12. the Republican motto is "we own you"

they would replace the Libertarian's limited government with a police state

[izquierdista]

28. Leave that on their website -YOYO

Trying to raise $400,000 now, I have to guffaw in their faces. :rofl:

I'll reserve my compassion for those who don't deserve the fate that befalls them. This clown however, is in the running for the Karmic "Bitch slap of the month award". I'd nominate him for a Darwin award too, but since it mentions he had a family, I take it there will be another generation of Snyders to propagate the meme of liberty and self-reliance -- at the expense of personal well-being.

[Faygo Kid]

10. RIP. He was wrong. All the best to his family.

The irony is too obvious. Ron Paul will not address this; he's an ideologue, and reality has no place in the minds of such folks.

[yardwork]

11. That's terrible. I've never heard of a 49 year old dying of pneumonia.

Pneumonia is highly treatable - what happened? Did he wait to long to get help? Did he have other complications?

This really is an indictment of our health care system. Nobody should die of pneumonia at the age of 49. Terrible.

[Crunchy Frog]

17. Jim Henson died of pneumonia at age 53. n/t

[yardwork]

18. Actually, I happen to know quite a bit about Jim Henson's death.

He died of a strep infection that shut down his organs.

[Javaman]

109. I had a chance to meet him about a year before he died. Amazing guy. nt

[SemperEadem]

126. Miles Davis died of pneumonia

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

25. lots of people die of pneumonia

at all ages

yes, it is treatable, if you seek treatment

[LeftishBrit]

99. People died of pneumonia at all ages, before there were antibiotics etc.

And can still do so, if they don't get treated. One of the many reasons why medical treatment should never depend on ability to pay.

[file83]

143. There are rare strains of pneumonia that can kill quickly...

...my mom died at the age of 42 - started coughing one day, thought it was just a regular cough. Next day she's in intensive care. She died 10 days later.

It happens, not alot, but it happens to healthy people all the time. (Even those with health care).

[dysfunctional press]

13. he didn't leave his family in debt- he left his estate in debt.

nt

[MiniMe]

42. Wouldn't that depend on what family he left behind?

If he had a wife and children, would it still go to his estate or would they be responsible for it? A serious question, I really want to know the answer. :hi:

[AZ Criminal JD]

69. He didn't have a wife or children

There is no debt here. The estate is in debt for 400 grand but so what. No one has to pay it.

[MiniMe]

90. I think they could sue the estate, but if there is nothing in the estate

they are SOL.

[pnorman]

14. I'll respect, even honor, ANYONE who puts personal principles over personal welfare.

n/t

pnorman

[tekisui]

16. Like a Captain going down with a ship....

I guess.

[Duke Newcombe]

27. At least he was intellectually consistent.

Duke

[EVDebs]

32. ..to a fault, I might add. nt

[pnorman]

38. No "principle" there; only self-imagined "honor".

Embracing an "alien ideology" for material gain, would be closer to my meaning.

Early this morning, I had viewed the DVD, "A Man For All Seasons", and was deeply moved. I am NOT a "card-carrying Christian", and am essentially an agnostic (perhaps even atheist). But I related a lot closer to Sir Thomas More, than to Thomas Cromwell, the Duke of Norfolk, or Richard Rich. I'm also aware the veracity of the depictions of those characters (including More) has been seriously challenged, but that doesn't alter what I was getting at.

pnorman
On edit: To the other responders to my posting: All my "adult" life (from about age 18), I've honored people like Joe Hill, Rosa Luxemburg, Sacco & Vanzetti, and many other unsung "losers". I feel the same way about this guy (although with far less emotional kinship). I guess that makes me a congenital "loser".

[cloudbase]

58. No way, brother.

I've known you too long and fought too many fights along with you to ever associate your name with the word loser.

[Hannah Bell]

36. them why solicit donations? let his family pay the debt.

[wtmusic]

37. What about those who put personal principles over their families' welfare? nt

[ConsAreLiars]

150. So your heroes include Tim McVeigh and Osama bin Laden?

Sorry, I don't buy that amoral bullshit. WHAT one stands and fights for is what matters. Being a "true believer" in mass murder, in racism, in homophobia, in social Darwinism may, not be any different in your eyes than one who works and sacrifices for the greater good.

I can tell the moral difference between Rosa Parks and Bull Conner. Too bad you are so sick as to be unable to see the difference.

[pnorman]

152. "Too bad you are so sick as to be unable to see the difference"

Please spare me your self-righteous posturing, or at least do it where there's a teensy bit of risk! Are you telling me that YOU are unable to see the difference between a follower of Ron Paul, and Bill Laden? SHEESH! you intellectual Stalinists, are ruining my appetite!

Did Bull Connors expose himself to life threatening physical danger by his actions?

pnorman

[Contrary1]

15. Looks like his family will be ones who really sacrifice....

Let's see if the "take care of your own" folks will come to their rescue.

My uncle did not believe in insurance either. After battling cancer for two years, he left his wife and two daughters with a financial nightmare. My aunt had to learn how to drive and find a job at forty. Took her almost two decades to recover. That was back in the 60's.

I cannot even imagine how difficult that would be to do now.

[Ian David]

33. And who will the Paultard's surviving family vote for in November?

"The Libertarian / Republican plan worked out so well for my husband, I think I want the same thing for MY kids!"

[AZ Criminal JD]

70. He had no family.

[proud2BlibKansan]

134. If he had no family, why is anyone worried about his medical bills?

Who is responsible for paying these bills if he has no family?

[AZ Criminal JD]

136. Absolutely no one

If he had any assets his estate will have to pay any bills to the limit of those assets. After that the hospital eats it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

149. So why are they raising money to pay his bills?

[AZ Criminal JD]

158. Maybe they feel some moral responsibility

That would be the only reason. There is no legal responsibility.

[AlphaCentauri]

76. maybe for Michael Moriarty and the realist party

it's about the same as libertarians

[southerncrone]

21. I "smell something fishy in Denmark" as the old saying goes.

When & how did he get pneumonia? Was he prone to respiratory problems? Have other health problems: diabetes, heavy-smoker, obese, etc.?

The Republicans hate Ron Paul for taking away the attention, $ & voters from their base. Dirty tricks r them. Many of the Paul supporters will vote Barr, instead of McCain.


I'd like to know more of the history on this.

[NashVegas]

31. Looks Like an Auto-Immune Disease

http://www.kentsnyder.com/2008/07/memories-of-kent.html

For those who don't know; Kent Snyder, chairman of the Ron Paul presidential campaign died on June 26,2008 after a long illness.

Elsewhere, it says he couldn't get insured because of a pre-existing condition.

[Gold Metal Flake]

22. Why didn't he get treatment at the emergency room?

No need to go in to debt when you have the emergency room. All illnesses are magically cured in the emergency room. No one pays in the emergency room. A Paultard told me so.

[tekisui]

24. You're right. The Emergency Room is just Socialized Healthcare.

I have talked with a Paultard myself.

[katmondoo]

39. tekiski The emergency room is more expensive than seeing a doctor

I have been there $500.00 to a thousand and more depending on what tests they do. I don't know where you got the idea it is free.

[seemslikeadream]

41. but a doctor won't see you unless you PAY up front

[tekisui]

98. I was being sarcastic.

Spouting the libertarian line that the emergency room is free.

[AzDar]

29. Sad. And just unbelievably ironic.

:(

[Ian David]

30. He failed to exercise the personal responsibility of refusing to get sick and die. n/t

[Blue_Tires]

62. win

sadly, there are too many out there who literally believe that...

[specimenfred1984]

34. Oh well, another complete hypocrite dead because of his lifetime of lies

I'm sure he had such a brilliant career of propaganda ahead of him that would've led to the deaths of countless others. I have more compassion for a squirrel I see crossing the street than I do these (R) traitors.

[wtmusic]

35. I'm sure Ron will step in and do absolutely nothing. nt

[knitter4democracy]

44. With all the money this guy helped him raise.

What exactly is Ron Paul doing with all that money?

[wtmusic]

48. Actually, he's probably broke

Failed campaigns, more often than not, leave massive debt in their wake.

Rugged individualists that they are, I'm sure Snyder's family can pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

[knitter4democracy]

97. Well, he sure took long enough to finally quit.

I hadn't heard hide nor hair of the guy until just a couple of weeks ago when he finally announced he wasn't running anymore, but he apparently had kept on fundraising. He raised millions and yet spent very little on ads or any of the usual stuff. Interesting.

[TheCowsCameHome]

53. A generic sympathy card will be sufficient.

as long as it doesn't cost over .99

[Midlodemocrat]

46. I was under the impression that those you left behind weren't

responsible for your debts after you died. :shrug:

That's what I've been told, anyway.

[wtmusic]

47. Any assets in his name will be sold to pay the debt

likely including their house, car, etc. Even if she is a co-signer.

Technically his estate is responsible.

[AZ Criminal JD]

71. Depends on the state you live in.

Creditors can go after some assets and some they can't. It is not a factor here because he had no family. So no one "left behind" owes anything.

[wtmusic]

49. The money is pouring in from generous Libertarians

and over 4 PERCENT of the $400K has been raised.

Your family, Kent? Looks like TOTO...They're On Their Own.

[AZ Criminal JD]

80. The Libertarians are smart enough to know there is no real debt here.

No one has to pay those bills.

[NJmaverick]

52. If you looked up irony in the dictionary...

[Deja Q]

57. More proof Libertarians are simply walking larynxes with a hubris complex.

Libertarians, at least the ones I knew, had a knack of spinning everything to justify their parroted mindset. If you can call it a "mind". No doubt the guy with his SUV is finding ways to blame everyone else for his gas crisis, while he otherwise says "everyone's problems are simply the results of their own actions" and the other gibber they're known for.

Libertarians are the proverbial Larry Craigs of society. Except it's not looking for spooge in a bathroom stall where they can't be seen unless it's a cop drainin' his lizard, it's more a philosophical thing...

[proud2BlibKansan]

60. This is sad

His poor family.

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. Wow his memorial service is right down the street from where I live!

I wonder if he was from here. Interesting.

[Blue_Tires]

64. $35 million, 250 employees and a grand total of 1 million votes...

not a lot of bang for the buck, even though the bulk of the money was seemingly spent on paid internet trolls to spam EVERY site in the web universe with an open comments forum...

[Oilwellian]

65. He died of pneumonia while working to get a doctor elected president?

How utterly ironic and horrifying. :(

[AlphaCentauri]

67. I must have to K-R

[Indenturedebtor]

72. I got pneumonia in Fiji. My wife got it as well after we both had NASTY bronchitis

We were in the rainforest so it rapidly deteriorated into pneumonia.

We caught a free local bus to the free hospital. Decided to pay 10 dollars to see the private doctor. Had a full exam, x-rays, etc. Bought 2 dollars worth of medicine and were right as rain a week or so later.

My wife also nearly cut her toe off breaking up a bar fight when we were in Fiji. They didn't have any private doctors there so we went to the public free hospital. They sewed her up and put her on antibiotics. Didn't cost a nickle. We got a ride from a local restaurant/bar owner.

It was kinda neat being in a country that cares about it's people. Even though Fiji is FULL of problems and I don't really recommend a visit, at least they have their priorities more or less straight.

[AZ Criminal JD]

78. Tell us how she nearly cut off the toe in the bar fight.

Sounds like an interesting story.

[Indenturedebtor]

93. Lol it's a long one... here's the short version

Fiji's tourists normally fly straight to the international airport and head straight out to one of the 50 odd small island resorts. A few (literally a few) ill advised people like my wife and I head inland to see the "real" Fiji. So you end up seeing the same few people everywhere you go. After awhile we ended up travelling with another couple we'd met when we had pneumonia in the rainforest. When my wife and I improved a bit we agreed to go with these folks to a remote undeveloped island.

After a nearly 15 hour ferry ride from hell we found our way to a primitive resort at the edge of the world. The wife and I decided to stay on a week, and this couple would go on ahead and find a house we all could rent for a couple weeks to recharge our batteries. Travelling through Fiji is exhausting and we'd all been there for over a month. Anyways, these guys were supposed to call us at this resort to let us know how the house search was going back on the mainland. They called once while we were out and didn't answer when we called back. I ended up getting the wife and I a free week at the resort by fixing their computers hehe, and when the wife went to bed every night I would stay up and drink Kava with a local group of dudes and they would tell me about their myths and special places in Fiji. One of them told me about a local sacred island that was basically in community property: three different "kings" from the local villages each owned one third of this special mountain. Basically the mountain was the site where a local Romeo and Juliet story had played out between two of the tribes. After the couple met a tragic end (by jumping off the mountain which was held by two tribes) it was divided up to be held by three tribes so that there was an "arbiter" of sorts. Sorry that's confusing but I'm cold calling people as I write this.

So this mountain.. right. I had been hiding an engagement ring from my wife this entire time waiting for the right moment. When I heard about this mountain I asked Mina (one of the local dudes) if I could propose to my wife on this mountain. He wasn't sure but said that if I could get permission from the 3 kings then I should be able to. I asked him about how Fijians proposed marriage and he explained to me that the hopeful man would present the father of the potential bride with Tambua. Tambua are ritually carved whales teeth that wash up on the shore from time to time. They are passed down from generation to generation. In the proposal ceremony the man spreads out a pandanas mat with sweet treats, and presents the Tambua on a special smoked pandanas sheet (on top of the mat). The father of the bride to be will reject the Tambua until he thinks that a proper "price" has been paid. And you also have to wear a lei of flowers strung up in a particular order. Anywayyyysss... The point is that I had to spend an extra week (total of two weeks) convincing my wife that only men were allowed to see these special sites around the island while I ran around with Mina meeting with the 3 kings and drinking Kava with them, and gathering up the special pandanas mats. I also had to travel to "town" to get treats and wine... oh and I had to help build a set of risers and shade for the local home coming soccer match (condition of one of the kings). The day of the soccer match I had a taxi help me "abduct" my wife and take her up the mountain. We walked the last 200 yards up the mountain to give the guys time to set up the mat for me.

On top of the mountain the reef and the beach formed a perfect heart shape. Though it had been raining all day it stopped long enough for us to have some wine and for me to propose.

Ok completely side tracked sorry but I'm working here at the same time so my brain is absently wandering.

We actually left Taveiuni the very next day and headed back to see if our former travelling companions had come up with anything. Though we hadn't been in touch we didn't want to leave them holding the bag of a full payment that should have been half paid by us. Long story short we tracked them down through the local bar, and found out that they had invited 4 dudes to stay with them. In a fit of excessive politeness (both from us and the other couple) we ended up staying there with them. Only instead of a nice relaxing "couples only" resort it was a party house. When the three canadian dudes who were staying there were getting ready to leave fiji we had a sending off for them at a local bar.

All of us were buying drinks for this Peace Corps guy from the states the whole night. He was flirting with the girl (Sarah from the other couple), and they were rough housing. He dumped her into the bay clothes, purse, and all. She was crying and freaking out so my wife gave her her flip flops to wear to the bathroom. The Peace Corps dude and Khasim (Sarah's fiancee) started fighting and my wife and I dove in to break it up. My wife cut the hell out of her foot on a broken bottle, and the blood basically stopped the fight.

Since she was drunk and scared of Fijian hospitals (they're not the most advanced in the world), I couldn't convince her to go to the hospital with me. We had ordered food ahead from our favorite local restaurant so I had to go over there and pick it up so as not to screw them. I looked all sorts of distraught so the local ex-pat retiree (Who went by "Cowboy" - was a former rancher in Hawaii) asked me what had happened, I told him and he assured me that he could help talk my wife into going to the hospital. He borrowed the restaurant owners car, and we drove back to the bar. Cowboy was actually in Fiji waiting to die from scirosis of the Liver. He explained all of this to my wife and I in a drunken rambling sort of way that did nothing to convince her to go to the hospital. We ended up exchanging a knowing look and pretending to give up. He offered to give us a ride "home" at which point we basically dragged her into the hospital.

Two nurses greeted us at the door. I told them that in the States I worked as a "Sterilization Tech" and asked them what sort of equipment they used. They told me that everything was plastic and disposable and then asked me if I wanted to administer the local anesthetic... I quickly told them that all I did was sterilize the equipment (which was a lie), and they kept on asking me heh. Maybe they could see through my "polite conversation". But we think they generally had no freaking idea how to give the anesthetic heh. Long story short they ended up pushing the needle all the way through her toe and injecting the local into her toe-nail. Eventually they just stitched her up even though the local didn't work at all. They did a great job with the stitches, and she didn't end up getting an infection! But for the next month I had to carry both of our 50 pound packs. When we finally "tested" the toe again in New Zealand the wound reopened, and it was another month until that healed (she got new stiches for free there too). Then she twisted/broke her ankle in Laos... so basically I was carrying two 50 pound packs for about 5 months lol... but that's another long rambling story. I came back from our trip strong as hell, but with some foot problems hehe. Wow I can't believe I wrote all of that lol. Sorry.

[AZ Criminal JD]

95. That was a great story

Thanks for sharing. I have been in one of those countries (Laos) and I know the adventure some of those trips can bring.

[Indenturedebtor]

96. Where did you go in Laos? Did you take the "banana boat" down the MeKong?

We absolutely loved Laos! Especially Luang Prabang. What an amazing city!

[AZ Criminal JD]

100. Laos is a great country as are others in the region.

I have visited Cambodia, Vietnam and Thailand as well. In Laos I didn't take the boat but I was in Luang Prabang and the capital Vientiane. In fact I was in Vientiane on the day after the election day, November, 1992. I called the U.S. embassy and asked to speak to the ambassador. They said he had left for the U.S. That's how I knew Clinton had won.

[Indenturedebtor]

101. we didn't make it to Vietnam unfortunately :(

Hopefully we'll get to go back in the next few years.

I take it you were there in an official capacity?

[AZ Criminal JD]

119. Yes.

I was an Air Force liaison with a U.S. delegation headed by John Kerry investigating possible American POWs. We were heading to Hanoi to visit the Vietnamese and the "Hanoi Hilton" prison.

[Arugula Latte]

73. His children can go work in sweatshops to pay the bills. That's what his father would have wanted.

Don't constrain capitalism! Pull yourselves up by your bootstraps, kids! Stop whining! That's the Libertarian way! Now get to work!

[Phred42]

75. KARMA - Good.

Proving once again that conservatives (Libertarian, republican whatever) are sociopathic to the point of sucide.

Phuck 'em all

Sorry for his family though - UNLESS THERE ARE CONSERVATIVES TOO.

[brentspeak]

128. Dumb Post Of The Day n/t

[Phred42]

156. Libertarians getting what they asked for - Dumb?

They work as hard as they can to achieve exactly THESE results.

The problem is that Conservatives: Republicans, Libertarians, Neocons, cannot seem to empathize. They don't have that gene.

They don't get it UNTIL IT JUMPS UP AND BITES THEM IN THEIR OWN PERSONAL ASSES.

Hopefully THIS is a learning experience for the Libertarians and Conservatives that were around this clown.

But then isn't that part of what KARMA is all about?

and save the cheap shot response of reminding me of MY ability to empathize. I do - call it: Tough love.

[guitar man]

77. sorry for their loss on a personal level

but, surely, they can pull themselves up by their botstraps and overcome this...:eyes:

[workinclasszero]

81. When your political philosophy destroys your family

Your politics suck.:thumbsdown:

[Vickers]

82. Oops.

OK, one of two things can happen: his family pays all of this off somehow, or they leave the medical folks holding the bag.

I wonder which way it'll go?

Surely the family will not accept help from anyone else.

:eyes:

[AZ Criminal JD]

88. He had no family

His mother and sisters are under no obligation to pay the debt.

[Vickers]

89. I'm a little confused then...why is his website soliciting donations

for his medical debts, and mentions his family?

"Help us raise money for Kent's family to pay off the debt."

:shrug:

[AZ Criminal JD]

94. His family is his mother and sisters.

But they are under no legal obligation to pay the debt. When you die you die. Your assets may be used to pay any debts but no one else has to pay them.

[nxylas]

107. Not true - Libertarians love charities

It's just the gummint they don't want helping anyone. That's why charities in states like South Carolina, with its (small l) libertarian governor are stretched to breaking point. I'm a cancer survivor and when I needed financial assistance from the cancer charities here, they all told me the same thing ("we've used up our budget for the financial year already, and it's only August").

[fascisthunter]

86. Libertarianism Would Lead to More Uninsured Deaths

the irony right there for all to see..... regardless of what the man's ideology is, this should not happen to any American citizen.

[Occam Bandage]

87. Libertarians must be cruel people to want to inflict that on society.

[Dukkha]

91. meh

I have enough to deal with concerning actual family & friends to give a shit about some libertarian fundraiser I've never heard of. Sympathy can be feigned like outrage and I won't do that.

[nachoproblem]

92. reminds me of my brother-in-law

who keeps sending me stuff from Lew Rockwell. He's had his share of medical problems, which must have cost a pretty penny. However he's supported pretty well on my sister's salary and benefits that she gets from the government as an HR manager for the city, while he's a stay-home dad. Not that I have any problem with that, because he's done a great job raising my niece. But he keeps using tag-lines about how the government's interference in our lives is a threat to everybody's liberty. The weird thing is, the only interference in his own life he's ever complained to me about has been from private enterprise -- as a Linux/open source enthusiast the complains all the time about the phone company, Microsoft, etc. So far as I can tell, the only way the government has interfered in his life is to provide his household income. Yet they are and always remain the bogeyman. I don't consider it hypocrisy, since I have plenty of respect for him and what he does, but it is highly ironic.

My sister, the breadwinner, is an FDR lefty like me. Go figure.

[mdmc]

102. You must give this guy credit

He has no family - and leaves this earth oweing to medical industry $400k.

Not a bad way to go, imho.

[Vinca]

104. What's odd about the Libertarians is most of them still want to stick

their noses into a woman's personal affairs and stop her from obtaining an abortion. I don't get it.

[papapi]

111. They're split on whether to allow abortions - but they're sure the . . .

government shouldn't be paying for it.

The U.S. Libertarian Party political platform states: that "Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.".

This begs the question, "what about a woman who cannot afford to have an abortion and who's life would be at risk to carry the fetus full term?". They probably have some convoluted answer for that.

I once thought libertarian might be a good way to go. Then I read some of their wacko philosophies and began to wonder if they weren't really just Nazis in disguise.

[DWilliamsamh]

106. I guess they'll have to pull themselves up by their bootstraps.....

Thank god, when you die in debt, there's no Estate Tax. Glad to see crazy right wingers are just as responsible about taking care of their own families, as they are for the rest of us. At least not JUST strangers they advocate fucking over.

[BrklynLiberal]

115. Karma is a real bitch.

[penndragon69]

116. This is proof

That the values of the republicans and
libertarians are nothing but destructive.

[Donnachaidh]

118. So WHY didn't Ron Paul treat him?

The man is a doctor, yes? All the Paulian backers I've spoken to have used the argument that Ron Paul didn't charge patients who couldn't afford to pay. So WHY didn't he treat his campaign manager? Pneumonia isn't a silent killer. Anyone could look at the guy and see he was ill?

[AZ Criminal JD]

122. I don't think Ron Paul can cure incurable fatal diseases.

Pneumonia was merely the symptom in this case. It was not the underlying disease.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

154. I read this article and also the WSJ article that was linked, and there was no mention of his having

any underlying disease. One article said pneumonia and the other, complications due to pneumonia.

[AZ Criminal JD]

157. A man 49 years old does not die of pneumonia

When you die of AIDs pneumonia is usually what they list as the cause of death. Given he had no wife or kids you just have to do the common sense addition to figure out what he had.

[Yavin4]

120. The End Result of a Libertarian Philosophy Is...

That the strong prey on the weak. The affirmed are considered weak and thus, weeded out of the population.

[uppityperson]

127. How sad, that is really too bad for his family.

[brentspeak]

129. My condolences to his family

As for the issue of Ron Paul: I appreciate very much his opposition to the WTO and the IMF, and to the Iraq War; but I don't think much of the libertarian belief in the free-market health care system. This nation is dying under the inertia of health care costs. Mr. Snyder's family, unfortunately, will be burdened by these medical bills for the rest of their lives -- something which you don't see happening in Canada, France, Germany, Sweden, the U.K....

[AZ Criminal JD]

135. They are not going to be burdened.

He had no family. He was survived by a mother and two sisters. They are not responsible for his debts.

[scarface2004]

138. good...that ll teach those assholes!!!

until the worthless us private insurance system is killed with a stake through the heart we are all forced to go 'all in' anytime we get caught out in the open without insurance!!

[RB TexLa]

146. No debt is left to anyone. The debt belongs to his estate not his family.

They have no responsibility for it.

[EbenezerMcIntosh]

148. I think the point is . . .

$400,000 of his estate, which the family would have otherwise inherited, may go to pay his medical bills instead.

[TexasObserver]

153. Topic Title is erroneous. His family doesn't owe a dime of this.

It's HIS debt, not his family's debt. That means it is the debt of his estate, assuming (1) he has any estate that has any worth to it, and (2) the health care providers can and do pursue their claims in probate court against his estate.

He left his estate with a $400,000 debt. He didn't leave his family with a $400,000 debt. There's a big difference.